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  1. #33
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    Re: This SHOULD make you really fucking angry

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Cos the internet isnt in america, and isnt subject to american law.

    More importantly, the hypocrisy about this one man is staggering. If this same info came to the NYT, or the Guardian, they would publish it. Why arent they America haters?

    Oh wait, they ARE the ones publishing it ...
    The internet isn't subject to american law for sure but those who use it for espionage surely are. Here is what must be done.

    First, we should seek to prosecute Assange and WikiLeaks. There can be little doubt that his actions violate 18 USC 793 (e), which prohibits anyone with "unauthorized possession" of information relating to the national defense that could harm the United States or help an enemy from willfully communicating that information to someone not authorized to receive it or from willfully retaining the information after the U.S. government has demanded that it be returned. For years, lawyers have debated whether that language could be used to prosecute a newspaper that prints classified information. No legitimate journalist or newspaper has ever been prosecuted under this statute. But it is hard to argue, based on the available facts, that Assange deserves the same treatment as a responsible news organization that carefully considers the views of the government before deciding what, if any, classified information to publish. The Constitution protects the media, but it surely does not protect those who wantonly do great harm.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1

  2. #34
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    Re: This SHOULD make you really fucking angry

    Quote Originally Posted by cirussell View Post
    The internet isn't subject to american law for sure but those who use it for espionage surely are. Here is what must be done.

    First, we should seek to prosecute Assange and WikiLeaks. There can be little doubt that his actions violate 18 USC 793 (e), which prohibits anyone with "unauthorized possession" of information relating to the national defense that could harm the United States or help an enemy from willfully communicating that information to someone not authorized to receive it or from willfully retaining the information after the U.S. government has demanded that it be returned. For years, lawyers have debated whether that language could be used to prosecute a newspaper that prints classified information. No legitimate journalist or newspaper has ever been prosecuted under this statute. But it is hard to argue, based on the available facts, that Assange deserves the same treatment as a responsible news organization that carefully considers the views of the government before deciding what, if any, classified information to publish. The Constitution protects the media, but it surely does not protect those who wantonly do great harm.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1
    You can't prosecute someone for a crime under your own laws that was committed in a foreign country. There are plenty of things I do here in Australia that would be illegal under American law. If I then travel to the USA, should I be prosecuted for them?

    (Although a few countries have exceptions for things like sex with minors, to stop sex-tourism).

  3. #35
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    Re: This SHOULD make you really fucking angry

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza View Post
    You can't prosecute someone for a crime under your own laws that was committed in a foreign country. There are plenty of things I do here in Australia that would be illegal under American law. If I then travel to the USA, should I be prosecuted for them?

    (Although a few countries have exceptions for things like sex with minors, to stop sex-tourism).


    Nice..."plenty of things"


    You outlaw, you!

    OR

    Yikes!


    can't decide...LOL



    .
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  4. #36
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    Re: This SHOULD make you really fucking angry

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    Nice..."plenty of things"


    You outlaw, you!

    OR

    Yikes!


    can't decide...LOL



    .
    I wasn't talking about anything particularly bad. I meant things like drinking at age 18.

    The point was, if you break an American law outside of America and then travel to America, you can't be punished for it. The only exceptions are if you are an American citizen who travels outside America to break the law and then returns, and even then only in very special circumstances.

  5. #37
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    Re: This SHOULD make you really fucking angry

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza View Post
    You can't prosecute someone for a crime under your own laws that was committed in a foreign country. There are plenty of things I do here in Australia that would be illegal under American law. If I then travel to the USA, should I be prosecuted for them?

    (Although a few countries have exceptions for things like sex with minors, to stop sex-tourism).
    Espionage is another one of those exceptions. I am not sure what the espionage laws are in Australia but I'm sure you have them and they most certainly do apply to non-citizens. All that is required is an indictment by the Attorney General and extradiction from a friendly country such as Sweden or whoever. There is no death penalty for espionage so extradiction should not be an issue. This is a no brainer, I'm surprised that you would think that as a citizen of Australia that you are free to commit espionage against the US with impunity. Where did you come up with that one?

  6. #38
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    Re: This SHOULD make you really fucking angry

    Quote Originally Posted by cirussell View Post
    Espionage is another one of those exceptions. I am not sure what the espionage laws are in Australia but I'm sure you have them and they most certainly do apply to non-citizens. All that is required is an indictment by the Attorney General and extradiction from a friendly country such as Sweden or whoever. There is no death penalty for espionage so extradiction should not be an issue. This is a no brainer, I'm surprised that you would think that as a citizen of Australia that you are free to commit espionage against the US with impunity. Where did you come up with that one?
    Well... I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just going to ramble here and might be completely wrong.

    First thing is that I would suspect is that he's not guilty of espionage. All he has done is publish material, and there are allowances for the media in espionage laws.

    Second, according to wiki most countries won't extradite someone unless:
    - The crime they committed is illegal in both countries.
    - The crime was not be political in nature.
    - The criminal is not their own citizen.

    So not only would it have to be illegal to publish this sort of material in the USA, but it would also have to be illegal to publish this material in whatever country you want to extradite him from. The second point might also trip things up.


    Spain and France both have extradition treaties with China, but neither country would extradite someone for publishing classified Chinese documents.

  7. #39
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    Re: This SHOULD make you really fucking angry

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza View Post
    Well... I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just going to ramble here and might be completely wrong.

    First thing is that I would suspect is that he's not guilty of espionage. All he has done is publish material, and there are allowances for the media in espionage laws.

    Second, according to wiki most countries won't extradite someone unless:
    - The crime they committed is illegal in both countries.
    - The crime was not be political in nature.
    - The criminal is not their own citizen.

    So not only would it have to be illegal to publish this sort of material in the USA, but it would also have to be illegal to publish this material in whatever country you want to extradite him from. The second point might also trip things up.


    Spain and France both have extradition treaties with China, but neither country would extradite someone for publishing classified Chinese documents.
    I'm fairly certain that the US wouldn't extradite anyone to a country like China either.

    I'm fairly certain that countries that are allies with the US would be willing to extradite anyone the US has indicted for espionage. That would be quite a rebuff from an ally to not extradite someone who willfully posseses and distributes secret or confidential US diplomatic papers. Any country that wouldn't honor that kind of extradition request from the US could hardly be considered an ally or even a friendly country. Regardless, the attorney general should bring the charges and issue the extradition request and let the chips fall where they may.

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