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  1. #1
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    Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    yep. It ain't pretty.



    Alberta Premier mulls over how to potentially fire cookie eating Stephen Duckett; Will cost tax payers a boat load of cash


    By Sam Foster

    "I'm interested in eating my cookie!"

    (H/T to El Cerdo Ignautius) That was the reply from Stephen Duckett, Alberta's top Health Services official when reporters asked him about the Province's failing health care system. In case you were unaware, Canada's single payer health care system is drowning in red ink and wait lines.





    The clip above is just another reminder that when you turn over important things, like say your health care, to the central planners, don't be surprised if that central planner is more concerned with baked goods than whether or not you can see a doctor.

    The best part is yet to come; Province officials are concerned about how to get rid of the bureaucrat!

    The Alberta Health Services board's next scheduled meeting is next week, but it could meet within a day.

    Duckett's contract with Alberta Health Services is for an indefinite term. His base salary is $575,000 — or more than $11,000 a week — plus a performance bonus up to 25 per cent of his salary.

    He also gets a yearly vehicle allowance of $18,000, as well as $10,000 per year for professional development, plus $15,000 a year for "personal financial and tax advice, club memberships and other similar purposes."

    If he is fired for just cause, Duckett gets only his pay, the performance bonus, the vehicle allowance and the personal allotment up to the date of termination.

    However, if Duckett is fired without just cause, taxpayers could be on the hook for an extra $700,000. That would consist of a year's salary as severance pay; 15 per cent of his salary in lieu of all other benefits; and moving expenses back to his home country of Australia up to $20,000.



    Now let's juxtapose this.

    Apparently Canada's government has no qualms or hesitation in punishing pesky doctors critical of Canada's Health Care.

    To most everyone else, there are more pressing issues — so pressing, that one government MLA, Raj Sherman, an ER doctor himself, went rogue. Early Wednesday morning, he unleashed an email to the public, accusing his own government of making a right holy mess of Alberta health care. The premier had “broken his promise” to improve wait times; his trust in his leader had been “tarnished.” He could no longer support the decisions of the Tories or AHS.

    If Mr. Duckett would not respond to reporters’ repeated questions about Dr. Sherman’s charges, premier Ed Stelmach delivered his response Monday: he suspended the doctor from the PC caucus.

    This was a fascinating strategy — standing by the cookie connoisseur while tossing the Progressive Conservatives’ most credible voice on health care. Dr. Sherman still puts in shifts at Edmonton’s Northeast Community Health Centre; he surely knows more about emergency care than the other 67 PC MLAs combined. Plus, his father is ill, and it was due to what he said were his five “near-death situations this year alone due to waits in the emergency room” that sparked his outburst.



    Duckett's comments remind me of Obama's irritation with the press the first time he went down to hang out with the DC press corps. I just can't wait for all that great centrally planned health care coming our way in 2014.



    .
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    And then we have this Nimrod, Obama, wanting to do the same thing.

  3. #3
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    I don't have time to go over everything today pwrone but lets sum it up simply.

    1. This is alberta not all of Canada. Alberta happens to be the province most like America in ideals.
    2. Dukket (CEO) was fired after being on the job for a short time. Aka alberta cared enough to fire him and quickly.

    3. He was fired for making screwing up a function system. the new system was a step towards privatization that is failing horribly. (so in short you just shot your own ideals down).
    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...7-7e2e4ca7e10d


    4. Canada statistically still has a better health care system for less cost than you do. We live longer, pay much less, have lower preventable death rates. We also have lower abortion, and teen pregrenacy rates.

    5. Raj Sherman was blasting the Canadian version of the replican party. This article highlights the flaws of privatized medicine in Canada.

    So with respect Pwrone Canada does care. We have always cared since our colonial roots. We care enough not to privitize our system to create situations like what happend in alberta.

    Please stop trying to tell us that it would be better if we stopped caring.



    My Junk I welcome you to look at the statistics of every country on earth and not just the ones that conservative papers spoon feed you. You maybe surprised to find out just where you sit.
    http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/hea-health
    You'll probally be surprised by how much more you pay and for less.
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...tal-per-capita

    I'm not saying it's for. I'm saying that what you've been told grossely misleading and little more than simple minded propaganda.
    Last edited by Spector567; 11-26-2010 at 06:57 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    YA, thats why America Jr residents come down here for needed medical care their own gov't will not provide or fails to provide in a timely manner.
    You mean THAT health care system is better than ours??
    Signature back in one week

  5. #5
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I don't have time to go over everything today pwrone but lets sum it up simply.

    1. This is alberta not all of Canada. Alberta happens to be the province most like America in ideals.
    2. Dukket (CEO) was fired after being on the job for a short time. Aka alberta cared enough to fire him and quickly.

    3. He was fired for making screwing up a function system. the new system was a step towards privatization that is failing horribly. (so in short you just shot your own ideals down).
    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...7-7e2e4ca7e10d


    4. Canada statistically still has a better health care system for less cost than you do. We live longer, pay much less, have lower preventable death rates. We also have lower abortion, and teen pregrenacy rates.

    5. Raj Sherman was blasting the Canadian version of the replican party. This article highlights the flaws of privatized medicine in Canada.

    So with respect Pwrone Canada does care. We have always cared since our colonial roots. We care enough not to privitize our system to create situations like what happend in alberta.

    Please stop trying to tell us that it would be better if we stopped caring.



    My Junk I welcome you to look at the statistics of every country on earth and not just the ones that conservative papers spoon feed you. You maybe surprised to find out just where you sit.
    http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/hea-health
    You'll probally be surprised by how much more you pay and for less.
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...tal-per-capita

    I'm not saying it's for. I'm saying that what you've been told grossely misleading and little more than simple minded propaganda.

    \
    Like all socialist constructs, yours will eventually fail--because of the blinders worn by folks like you--it will be a shock instead of addressed early on.

    It will be a dramatic failure, instead of just poor policy, easily adjusted.


    Why not take a look at the rest of the socialist world, and check in on Communist history while you are at it.

    It ain't pretty, and won't be.





    .

    .
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  6. #6
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    \
    Like all socialist constructs, yours will eventually fail--because of the blinders worn by folks like you--it will be a shock instead of addressed early on.

    It will be a dramatic failure, instead of just poor policy, easily adjusted.


    Why not take a look at the rest of the socialist world, and check in on Communist history while you are at it.

    It ain't pretty, and won't be.
    So what your saying is that you admit that this article was little more than simple minded propaganda and you attempted to mislead people on this board and you can't refute a single thing I said. Including the overall effectiveness of the Canadian Healthcare system. (I'm assuming that if you could have you would have refuted something I said.)

    Thankyou.

    BTW this dramitic failure started over 100 years ago in Canada. So far I pay half as much as you do and receive equal to or better quality of care. along with everyone else in my country and every other western nation.



    As much you may disagree with something pwron it does not give you to right to knowing mislead people. Doing it once is a mistake doing it over and over is called lying.
    Last edited by Spector567; 11-26-2010 at 10:56 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    \
    Like all socialist constructs, yours will eventually fail--because of the blinders worn by folks like you--it will be a shock instead of addressed early on.
    Makes no sense whatsoever. You realise every country, yours included, has a social element. The balance varies, but really, not enough for an expert like yourself to predict failure because you personally dont like someone elses chosen balance.

    Arrogance, unbelievable arrogance. Your balance of capitalism and socialism is right for you (if people vote for it) and others are right for them.

  8. #8
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    um...



    "Canada's single payer health care system is drowning in red ink and wait lines."


    This isn't happening, is what you are saying.


    What a relief!



    .
    Last edited by pwrone; 11-26-2010 at 11:37 AM.
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  9. #9
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Makes no sense whatsoever. You realise every country, yours included, has a social element. The balance varies, but really, not enough for an expert like yourself to predict failure because you personally dont like someone elses chosen balance.

    Arrogance, unbelievable arrogance. Your balance of capitalism and socialism is right for you (if people vote for it) and others are right for them.

    Um...but...

    have you noticed anything happening around Europe these days?

    Aaaaanything at all. No, not those riots you missed. I realize that 50000 people rioting in London is rather low-key.

    I am talking about NATIONS. FAILING. One by one.

    Just like California,. our own failed experiment in socialism.


    Failing.


    Yours is the arrogance of looking at facts and then saying you didn't see anything, of looking at Muslims lying down all over the street in Paris and saying that Muslims aren't lying down all over the streets in Paris.

    It is a lot like lying, isn't it? And when your leaders do it, it is a lot like murder.


    It is a liberal thing--denying what your eyes and ears tell you.


    How else could liberals exist?



    .
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    um...



    Canada's single payer health care system is drowning in red ink and wait lines.


    This isn't happening, is what you are saying.


    What a relief!



    .
    If it is, and Ive no idea, so what? Thats like me saying that when a US Senator gets found guilty of a crime, you should abandon electing Senators.

  11. #11
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    If it is, and Ive no idea, so what? Thats like me saying that when a US Senator gets found guilty of a crime, you should abandon electing Senators.


    Sorry, I should have posted this for Spector, who thinks the whole thing is a sham, a series of lies.



    .
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Oh, okay, makes sense.

  13. #13
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    Um...but...

    have you noticed anything happening around Europe these days?

    Aaaaanything at all. No, not those riots you missed. I realize that 50000 people rioting in London is rather low-key.

    I am talking about NATIONS. FAILING. One by one.

    Just like California,. our own failed experiment in socialism.


    Failing.


    Yours is the arrogance of looking at facts and then saying you didn't see anything, of looking at Muslims lying down all over the street in Paris and saying that Muslims aren't lying down all over the streets in Paris.

    It is a lot like lying, isn't it? And when your leaders do it, it is a lot like murder.


    It is a liberal thing--denying what your eyes and ears tell you.


    How else could liberals exist?



    .
    First of all, the muslim argument you seem fixated on really isnt relevant here, we are talking about political balance between left and right, socialism and capitalism.

    You seem to take an absolutist viewpoint, that any social element is wrong. That would mean you would want a pure capitalist society with no support or welfare, etc. Fine. But that isnt what you really think, Im sure. You DO agree that theres a balance to be found.

    That balance happens to be different depending upon which country you are in. Its just degrees, and you cant say yours is right for others. It may be right for you, but not for other countries.

    We simply dont have a culture like yours. The US is almost unique (completely?) in its balance being so stridently right of centre. Thats great, and theres reasons for it, to do with history and culture. And other countries have their history and culture. Neither are "wrong".

    For every claim of superiority someone can make on one side about their balance of capitalism/socialism compared to others, someone else can make a counter claim. Your balance has its plusses and minuses, so do others.

    And you are mistaken thinking (claiming? Im not sure you actually think it) that the whole of the disparate continent of europe is some socialist haven, where capitalism has been abandoned. Europe is the same as its always been. Countries swing left and right.

    Just like yours.

  14. #14
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    First of all, the muslim argument you seem fixated on really isnt relevant here, we are talking about political balance between left and right, socialism and capitalism.

    You seem to take an absolutist viewpoint, that any social element is wrong. That would mean you would want a pure capitalist society with no support or welfare, etc. Fine. But that isnt what you really think, Im sure. You DO agree that theres a balance to be found.

    That balance happens to be different depending upon which country you are in. Its just degrees, and you cant say yours is right for others. It may be right for you, but not for other countries.

    We simply dont have a culture like yours. The US is almost unique (completely?) in its balance being so stridently right of centre. Thats great, and theres reasons for it, to do with history and culture. And other countries have their history and culture. Neither are "wrong".

    For every claim of superiority someone can make on one side about their balance of capitalism/socialism compared to others, someone else can make a counter claim. Your balance has its plusses and minuses, so do others.

    And you are mistaken thinking (claiming? Im not sure you actually think it) that the whole of the disparate continent of europe is some socialist haven, where capitalism has been abandoned. Europe is the same as its always been. Countries swing left and right.

    Just like yours.



    Excellent post.


    Part of the problem is that OUR healthcare overhaul--the forced-upon-us 'obamacare'- is almost exclusively focused on information-gathering and action-control, a blatant precursor to the communist state the the prize-winner longs for.

    So the topic is a sensitive one.


    The GOP plans, any of the several, contain many hundreds, thousands of pages less--contained within these 'extra' pages is the end of our great experiment--the U.S.A.--and the beginning of something far less significant.

    We would like to improve everything about our country without abandoning that which has led to our success...it has all happened for a reason.


    obama is fixated on a complete overhaul, believing that there is something inherently wrong with us.

    We disagree, in great numbers.



    Because many liberals have an utterly mindless support for this heinous legislation, despite all the evidence of it's uselessness and the incredible corruption in and around it's passage (not to mention the basic invasive-ness of many of it's requirements) , many opponents find themselves trying a different tack--examples of similar plans that have failed. And there are many of those, but it isn't as though I want Canada or anyone else to fail.


    So, yeah...sometimes the argument can seem petty and peripheral.




    .
    Last edited by pwrone; 11-26-2010 at 03:14 PM.
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  15. #15
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    Excellent post.


    Part of the problem is that OUR healthcare overhaul--the forced-upon-us 'obamacare'- is almost exclusively focused on information-gathering and action-control, a blatant precursor to the communist state the the prize-winner longs for.

    So the topic is a sensitive one.
    Well, I dont argue the healthcare legislation is good, I've no idea. The whole US system is alien to me, as ours is to you. But surely you must see that Obama's supporters wanted a more socialised system than was finally pushed through, and even his original proposals were nowhere near as "left" as ours in UK - and we arent communists. So I question your link between healthcare reform and communism on Obama's part. Slightly left of where you are, yes, but nowhere near communism.

    edit- I suspect some might say "slippery slope" etc, but Im not a great advocate of that argument. It takes a hell of a restructuring of a society and (somehow) its people to be able to implement communism, or any extreme political philosophy.


    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    The GOP plans, any of the several, contain many hundreds, thousands of pages less--contained within these 'extra' pages is the end of our great experiment--the U.S.A.--and the beginning of something far less significant.

    We would like to improve everything about our country without abandoning that which has led to our success...it has all happened for a reason.


    obama is fixated on a complete overhaul, believing that there is something inherently wrong with us.

    We disagree, in great numbers.
    I've no argument with the people disagreeing. In the end the people decide, and they will, at the next election. As Ive said before, we (mostly) get the government we want and deserve. We rarely if ever get elected governments we didnt want, although we may change our minds quite quickly after electing them, lol.



    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    Because many liberals have an utterly mindless support for this heinous legislation, despite all the evidence of it's uselessness and the incredible corruption in and around it's passage (not to mention the basic invasive-ness of many of it's requirements) , many opponents find themselves trying a different tack--examples of similar plans that have failed. And there are many of those, but it isn't as though I want Canada or anyone else to fail.


    So, yeah...sometimes the argument can seem petty and peripheral.
    Well, if I was feeling uncharitable I might poiunt out the objection to the healthcare legislation often seems as mindless as the support it gets. For example people claimed UK didnt treat old people, utterly untrue, but this then was repeated and used to attack Obama. But thats often the way with entrenched political positions which arent necessarily much related to the details of the topic or policy. But its certainly the case that both sides are guilty of it, no matter the topic.
    Last edited by thistle; 11-27-2010 at 12:28 AM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Canada Dealing With Failing Healthcare System

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    um...



    "Canada's single payer health care system is drowning in red ink and wait lines."


    This isn't happening, is what you are saying.


    What a relief!.
    Sorry to go back to this but I just got back from a flight from our nations capital and felt someone of this needed to be addressed.

    1. It's a goverment funded program. It doesn't make a profit. Where was it suppose to get black ink? If your saying that they want more *******.... Than of course so do your doctors or do you not watch ER. =) Our complaints are just a goverment matter while yours are on a small community level.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28394340/

    The Canadian people decide how much they want to fund there healthcare through the election. They have decided on the current level. (people of course want more for less)



    2. Wait lines for non urgent care has been your only complaint for over a year. You don't have anything else.

    If I offered any american $4000 to wait a little longer don't you think they would take it? $4000 is alot of money to pay for such a little gain.

    I've been to the hospital twice in 27 years. That's $108,000 That I didn't pay that you did. I'm sorry but i'd rather keep my $108,000 and the knowledge that if anything happens I won't bankrupt my family.
    http://medheadlines.com/2008/08/22/a...-medical-debt/
    (I've never heard of medical debt in Canada)


    P.S. Thankyou for highlighting the reason Canada doesn't want to privatize healthcare. The disaster in Alberta was a perfect example.

    P.P.S. as to socialized systems failing.... In case you didn't notice Canada is out of recession. We survived thanks to our fortified banking system. Europe did not have the same fortifications resulting in the current problems. The ones you Caused.


    For the record prwon I have no problem with admiting the challanes in the Canadian Healthcare system. I have a problem with you mispresenting facts and pretending there are no problems with your own. No system is perfect It's foolish to expect that any system should be.
    Last edited by Spector567; 11-27-2010 at 10:42 AM.

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