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  1. #17
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post
    What's NOT screwed up??? More like it. For starters... why do we need ANYTHING for survival? Why are there predators? Why must every creature kill something to survive? What item anywhere isn't screwed up? Why is there a limit to the land on Earth? Why IS there suffering? All the important questions in life... the bible just doesn't answer.
    What do see as an answer? It seems to me you're pointing out everything is screwed up, so where's your answers?

    "Imagine" as John Lennon sang. Okay, we have a perfect universe where there is no suffering, no death, no struggle, no battle, no development of an individual mind, no opportunity to explore it and even conquer it. Just perfection, as everyman imagines.

    Assuming we would agree on such a perfect state, that in itself would be the destruction of the mind, of individual ability of discovery, the ability to explore and dare and challenge the elements, even with the prospect of losing.

    I'm so grateful to have a second chance to believe in a mythical creature... Could I pass it up? hmmmm...
    I don't care what you believe in. Actually, you're closer to truth than the christians and other religions, because you choose to think for yourself. If there's an omnisicnet God, I doubt he needs me to defend his existence. Al I can do is point out what I see, and I certainly DON'T encourage you to believe any of the collectivist bullshit you hear about God.

    So you retract your statement about church and state trying to do better than God?
    Why would i retract it? Church and state are merely collectivist assumptions about God, or whatever power men decide is absolute.

    We get buried in democracy, or we get buried in some collectivist notion of a being who will have us to accept him or go to hell.

    Godel pointed out that it is simply impossible to organize all truth in one package, which means that any collectivist notion of truth is merely partial at best, whether church or state, and doesn't represent either God or truth.

    Church and state have tried to employ power "from above" and made a mess of everything.

  2. #18
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    What do see as an answer? It seems to me you're pointing out everything is screwed up, so where's your answers?
    Enter Science stage right. It may not have the answers, but it at least has the means to discover them.
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    "Imagine" as John Lennon sang. Okay, we have a perfect universe where there is no suffering, no death, no struggle, no battle, no development of an individual mind, no opportunity to explore it and even conquer it. Just perfection, as everyman imagines.
    Whoa whoa whoa there... Who says there's no development for an individual mine in utopia? Who says there's opportunity for discovery when we don't have to fight for anything?

    Why do you desire to want to conquer everything? Why is your base desire to destroy and enter wars? Why is it your nature to need to fight?
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Assuming we would agree on such a perfect state, that in itself would be the destruction of the mind, of individual ability of discovery, the ability to explore and dare and challenge the elements, even with the prospect of losing.
    Now you're just making stuff up to be unreasonable. None of this is would happen if we simply did not need to fight for basic necessities.
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    I don't care what you believe in. Actually, you're closer to truth than the christians and other religions, because you choose to think for yourself. If there's an omnisicnet God, I doubt he needs me to defend his existence. Al I can do is point out what I see, and I certainly DON'T encourage you to believe any of the collectivist bullshit you hear about God.
    Well thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Why would i retract it? Church and state are merely collectivist assumptions about God, or whatever power men decide is absolute.
    No they aren't. They are businesses. Marketing businesses that are selling an idea. They have to convince you that everything you ever do is a sin, and you need to pay for your sin by going to church. When you're there you have to donate money.

    And that is the ultimate goal of this business... to take money from the populace and make them happy to give it. It is the biggest scam in the world.
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  3. #19
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    I never said Job was true. I merely went with the points made.
    Oh... so you admit it's a myth then... Well then there's little needed to discuss except how Evil the mythical God of the book of Job really was.
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Apparently he didn;t have any flaws. he was "perfect in all thy ways", so perfect that he couldn;t examine his own sense of self perfection, like a computer, doing exactly what it does to perfection.
    That sounds to me like a pretty big flaw. I would think God wouldn't have overlooked that one. If God had made Satan with that ability, there wouldn't be a need to destroy an entire family??
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    I'm arguing the simplest argument. If there is a God, then that God is either consistent with what we can demonstrate, or he doesn't exist.
    I think we're on to something big here.
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Nothing to overcome, everything perfect. No tears, no work, no effort, and no freedom. "Rollin' 'Round Heaven All Day" for eternity would suck.
    Sounds like you have a rather flawed existence. I'm sure I could find tonnes of things to occupy my time if it wasn't wasted acquiring the goods required for survival. Just think of all the intellectual challenges there would be. All the musical instruments to learn. All the worlds to explore... I wouldn't be bored at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    I don't give a shit whether god did it or not. I'm just pointing out that Paul's teaching, and in this case, the book of Job, shows that the main problem with human brains is the same as presented by Godel: there is no self referencing process by which we can attain all truth, yet we continue to organize as if there is. That was Job's flaw, and the flaw of christianity and all religions.
    I guess that's where we differ. I do care that the God everyone says is real is a sadistic maniac. I worry that people use the book of Job and others to tell them what is appropriate. If someone came to kill my family in such a way I would like to be prepared, and I would like to dissuade them from doing it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    It would be nice if they did look unfavorably, but they don't. Humans employ the techniques of evil to try to do good. Satan can appear as an angel of truth, and that is the problem, whether you look at it in terms of the usual religious notions or of mathematics. It is impossible to list all true mathematical statements, and even if you could, there would be false statements mixed in.
    That's only true because there are an infinite number of true mathematical statements. 1=1, 2=2, 3=3... To infinity....

    But why would there have to be false ones mixed in? Just because of typo's?
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Actually, Job did break. Not only did he break, but he admitted that he wasn;t as perfect as he thought. When he saw that, his wealth and success was restored. The problem with humans is that we all have a tendency to seldect our particular views of what ought to be good, and judge everything contrrary to that as bad, as if any of us are absolute judges of truth. We know mathematically that is impossible.
    Sure... he got new kids... he got new animals... Do you really think that's acceptable?

    Hypothetically, you go to any parent... ANY PARENT. Kill their kid. Give them another child and ask them if you're even. Now do that 10 times. Do you think you'd be even to replace the children you killed?

    What do you think anyone judging the situation would think of you? Why is Job's situation different?
    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    That's a flaw in the story from any human perspective. Why destroy inocent lives to get at one person?
    The whole story seems like a battle of egos between God and Satan, doesn't it?
    The whole story sounds like a portrayal of an egotistical and sadistic God with no morals or sense of justice. Defiantly of a God who cares nothing for human life.
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  4. #20
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Are you saying other animals don't have languages? How about Whales, Dophins...there are plenty examples of animals who communicate phonetically.

    You assume, without proof, that humans have been given a special uniqueness over all other animals...and not just another animal.
    I had this discussion with Lord jag. I am not making a value judgment, just an objective view. I am not, in other words, proposing that infra-human species are inferior to humans. I am simply making an observation that language is a characteristic of humans that has allowed them, along with increased brain capacity, to dominate the planet. You must admit as other species become extinct, we are the dominate player.

    Actually, the world would be better off, if humans didn't dominate.

  5. #21
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    "God does not hate"
    I believe in God, although I have pulled away from him over my lifetime. I have never believed he hates or hated me. He loves all of us, and we have the free choice to go in the right or wrong direction. we make choices in life but whatever they are i do not believe god hates us in any way. Once he gives you the free gift of salvation he does not take that away. We have choices ..its up to us..

    Read more: Why does god hate me? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/194742#ixzz12sXIgScL

  6. #22
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by sonia77 View Post
    "God does not hate"
    I believe in God, although I have pulled away from him over my lifetime. I have never believed he hates or hated me. He loves all of us, and we have the free choice to go in the right or wrong direction. we make choices in life but whatever they are i do not believe god hates us in any way. Once he gives you the free gift of salvation he does not take that away. We have choices ..its up to us..

    Read more: Why does god hate me? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/194742#ixzz12sXIgScL
    Complete bullshit.

    Have you ever seen someone drown? I have, and it's fvcking awful...terrible. When the Tsunami hit 2004...do you know how many children drowned that day...each one having to experience that terror and pain.

    "he loves us all"?....Fvck god.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  7. #23
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Complete bullshit.

    Have you ever seen someone drown? I have, and it's fvcking awful...terrible. When the Tsunami hit 2004...do you know how many children drowned that day...each one having to experience that terror and pain.

    "he loves us all"?....Fvck god.
    Are you and the Lord Jag the same person? In any case, you two are learning the lesson spoken of in the old testament really well. You are hating God, that's what having to do something to be approved by God does, makes you hate him, because we are all dirty little sneaks that wants God to do his part, but we don't want to do our part, and can't do our part. That is the lesson we learned through the old testament of the bible.

    So...let me ask you. When you send your kids to school to learn, do they hate you? Well...yes. School is painful, cruel, and unpleasant. Do our kids hate their teachers for putting them through hell? Yes, at first, only later do we come to love them for these valuable lesson they teach us.

    Drownings, tsunamis, shootings, deaths of all kinds seem to be horrible to us here and now. Of course, once we walk through that door, we will see that it was wonderful, and that this whole experience in this world of death was wonderful. When we are going through it, not so wonderful, when we have gone though it, beyond wonderful.

    No matter how much we bitch, moan, and groan about having to learn this lesson of death, doesn't mean God is going to let us get by without learning it, he still makes us learn it even if we say we hate him. He expects us to hate him, and chuckles, and likes it. Part of growing up.
    whack it:judges:

  8. #24
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    Are you and the Lord Jag the same person? In any case, you two are learning the lesson spoken of in the old testament really well. You are hating God, that's what having to do something to be approved by God does, makes you hate him, because we are all dirty little sneaks that wants God to do his part, but we don't want to do our part, and can't do our part. That is the lesson we learned through the old testament of the bible.

    So...let me ask you. When you send your kids to school to learn, do they hate you? Well...yes. School is painful, cruel, and unpleasant. Do our kids hate their teachers for putting them through hell? Yes, at first, only later do we come to love them for these valuable lesson they teach us.

    Drownings, tsunamis, shootings, deaths of all kinds seem to be horrible to us here and now. Of course, once we walk through that door, we will see that it was wonderful, and that this whole experience in this world of death was wonderful. When we are going through it, not so wonderful, when we have gone though it, beyond wonderful.

    No matter how much we bitch, moan, and groan about having to learn this lesson of death, doesn't mean God is going to let us get by without learning it, he still makes us learn it even if we say we hate him. He expects us to hate him, and chuckles, and likes it. Part of growing up.
    Your god is a myth. A man-made construct of the Bronze Age as an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

    Second, you are pissing into the wind because there is no proof of your god or any god.

    You analogy is laughable.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  9. #25
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    Are you and the Lord Jag the same person?
    HAHAHAHAHA! uh... no. He's far quicker to insult and has a much shorter temper.
    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    In any case, you two are learning the lesson spoken of in the old testament really well. You are hating God, that's what having to do something to be approved by God does, makes you hate him, because we are all dirty little sneaks that wants God to do his part, but we don't want to do our part, and can't do our part. That is the lesson we learned through the old testament of the bible.
    Wow... another lie from a creationist... who would expect otherwise?

    I don't hate God. Never did, never will. He just simply does not exist. How can you hate something that does not exist.

    The mythical being of God is extremely evil mind you, but I don't hate God any more than I hate Lex Luther or the Decepticons. (Superman and transformers references)
    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    So...let me ask you. When you send your kids to school to learn, do they hate you? Well...yes. School is painful, cruel, and unpleasant. Do our kids hate their teachers for putting them through hell? Yes, at first, only later do we come to love them for these valuable lesson they teach us.
    Uh no. What school do your kids go to?

    Mine enjoy going to school. There are plenty of ways to teach without murder, torture or abuse. God is just incapable of knowing them. You can't blame God though. Fiction writers of the first century didn't know half of what we know about psychology today.
    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    Drownings, tsunamis, shootings, deaths of all kinds seem to be horrible to us here and now. Of course, once we walk through that door, we will see that it was wonderful, and that this whole experience in this world of death was wonderful. When we are going through it, not so wonderful, when we have gone though it, beyond wonderful.
    Have you been to New Orleans? I think you need to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    No matter how much we bitch, moan, and groan about having to learn this lesson of death, doesn't mean God is going to let us get by without learning it, he still makes us learn it even if we say we hate him. He expects us to hate him, and chuckles, and likes it. Part of growing up.
    Nice... The vision of your God chuckling while he watches someone struggle to gain just one more breath before they drown to death. Yes... These is the actions of a creature who loves you.... sure...
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  10. #26
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post
    HAHAHAHAHA! uh... no. He's far quicker to insult and has a much shorter temper.
    That's arguable.

    Wow... another lie from a creationist... who would expect otherwise?
    Why do you have such a problem with people who lie? Who told you that it was wrong? Oh, yeah, the magical sky fairy? (of course, we both know you secretly believe in him)

    I don't hate God. Never did, never will. He just simply does not exist. How can you hate something that does not exist.
    You make a pretty good go at it.


    The mythical being of God is extremely evil mind you, but I don't hate God any more than I hate Lex Luther or the Decepticons. (Superman and transformers references)
    Evil? Who told you that God was evil? What is evil? Oh, yeah, you're following the sky fairy even though you claim not to believe in him.


    Uh no. What school do your kids go to?
    Doesn't matter. All school in painful to some extent, with some enjoyment too. Just like this school that God is putting us through.

    Mine enjoy going to school. There are plenty of ways to teach without murder, torture or abuse. God is just incapable of knowing them. You can't blame God though. Fiction writers of the first century didn't know half of what we know about psychology today.
    Funny you think so. Yet we still follow every one of their beliefs on right and wrong. Man has not advanced since the very first man 6000 yrs ago as far as intelligence is concerned. You think too highly of yourself.

    Adam would do just fine in today's world. He would probably say, "man has made a few discoveries since my time, though I thought it would be much more advanced that this."


    Have you been to New Orleans? I think you need to go.
    Been there, on tv. Ever seen 1000 ways to die? Death, it's our last exam, enjoy. Plus, who told you that death is not good? Was it the sky fairy?

    Nice... The vision of your God chuckling while he watches someone struggle to gain just one more breath before they drown to death. Yes... These is the actions of a creature who loves you.... sure...
    Actually, I said he chuckles when we bitch and moan and groan and hate him about the school he is sending us through. But, hey, we all bitch moan and groan and hate. I chuckle at my own childrens bitching, moaning, and groaning, and hating when I make them do something that they don't like. And yes, it is the actions of a creature that loves us.
    whack it:judges:

  11. #27
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    AH! You got me! I tuely believe in the sky fairy! OH the humanity! How could you have known my thoughts better than me!??!

    And of course all morality comes only from the bible. In fact if it wasn't for the bible I'm sure you would have to succumb to your desires to "sin" in all kinds of cruel and disgusting ways! You are really a sick and twisted disgusting creature, so it's sure a good thing you have a bible to tell you it's wrong and keep you from acting on your desires.

    I on the other hand have no desire to do what your sky fairy calls sins because I know that they are wrong and doing things that are wrong make you evil. I don't need to think that someone is watching me to not kill some one. I don't need to know that I will be judged by a creature that I've never seen to not rape someone.

    I'm really sorry that you can't do the same. Keep your bible... It sounds like you REALLY need it.

    While you're at it you may as well pick up a history book. You don't think mankind and society has changed dramatically in 6000 years? Today's world would be almost unfathomable to someone from even 50 years ago. Imagine a world where women get to vote? I'm sure they couldn't. Ever seen a senior citizen try to figure out internet banking? But sure. Adam could figure it out, right? Ya sure.

    So when you see your kid running out into the street with cars zooming by you just sit back and chuckle to yourself and say "Well they won't do THAT again!?" Cause that's what your God does.... Except he made the car's and put them on the road for you to run out in front of.
    Last edited by Lord_jag; 10-25-2010 at 02:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  12. #28
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Complete bullshit.

    Have you ever seen someone drown? I have, and it's fvcking awful...terrible. When the Tsunami hit 2004...do you know how many children drowned that day...each one having to experience that terror and pain.

    "he loves us all"?....Fvck god.
    No. He just loves the ones that survive.

  13. #29
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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by sonia77 View Post
    "God does not hate"
    I believe in God, although I have pulled away from him over my lifetime. I have never believed he hates or hated me. He loves all of us, and we have the free choice to go in the right or wrong direction. we make choices in life but whatever they are i do not believe god hates us in any way. Once he gives you the free gift of salvation he does not take that away. We have choices ..its up to us..

    Read more: Why does god hate me? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/194742#ixzz12sXIgScL
    First is, yes god does hate individuals meaning people. Read your bible. Lev 20:23, Ps 5:5, Ps 11:5, Prov. 6:19, Hos. 9:15.....
    What would god have to do with an insignificant self righteous being? What if you are incapable of having free choice, now what? Blame your circumstances that god cannot control and you end up in hell because you have never heard the "good news"? Yeah. God hates everybody equally. Also, why are you defending god?

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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by tyler_clarke View Post
    No, it doesn't mean He hates you.God just hates bad deeds but not His creature.
    Todays bible study is about the creatures god hates. Let's open up to our favorite hate filled book, Leviticus, chapter 20 verse 23. It reads "...I abbhor them..."Now go to Psalms chapter 5 verse 5. David writes "God hates all who do wrong." That concludes todays study of gods word. Don't forget to tithe and be sure to grab some kool aide on your way out...

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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold Rimmer View Post
    Todays bible study is about the creatures god hates. Let's open up to our favorite hate filled book, Leviticus, chapter 20 verse 23. It reads "...I abbhor them..."Now go to Psalms chapter 5 verse 5. David writes "God hates all who do wrong." That concludes todays study of gods word. Don't forget to tithe and be sure to grab some kool aide on your way out...

    Good Lord, what you have heard of the bible, or the selective passages you quoted seem to be really eating you up.

    Anytime you read a book, if you make a decision about the book based on a sentence or two out of the whole book, and don't take into consideration the rest of the book, of course, you are going to be confused and ignorant of the book's true message or subject.

    Under the old covenant or testament, man was trying to achieve a likeness of God by the knowledge of good and evil. It was impossible. So God being just, had to hate evil, which was all mankind.

    Under the new covenant or testament, God reveals we are not actually mankind, we are the spirit inside the body, not the body itself. Also, he reveals that he is our Father, and that we (those who experience life as mankind) are his children.

    It's why we are here, to experience life as evil little bastards that die because of it. But no worries, it is only the body of flesh that God hates and causes to die, who we really are, the spirit within the body, never dies, but is eternal like God.

    If you listen to what organizations say about God, the bible itself says that the organization, known as the beast, will rend you to pieces. That's why God sent JC, to free you from evil mankind who judges according to the knowledge of good and evil, and not according to the fact that we are all God's children, having a physical temporary experience of death.
    whack it:judges:

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    Re: If bad things happen, does it mean God hates y

    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    Good Lord, what you have heard of the bible, or the selective passages you quoted seem to be really eating you up.
    Not really. Just replying to a self deluded interpretation that someone believes god "doesnt hate" when it is clear he does. After all, he is sending me to hell when I die, and you have no issues with that. That I issue I find disturbing.

    Anytime you read a book, if you make a decision about the book based on a sentence or two out of the whole book, and don't take into consideration the rest of the book, of course, you are going to be confused and ignorant of the book's true message or subject.
    It's not just a small part of the book, which I can safely say, you've never read, except in bible studies, with select-a-verse. If you have children, apply gods logic to their upbringing. Claim your neighbors property and slay them for it in the name of your god, sleep with his daughter and then tell them the good news of jesus. If she doesn't accept, then, kill her. She's going to hell anyways, what's the difference on timing?

    Under the old covenant or testament, man was trying to achieve a likeness of God by the knowledge of good and evil. It was impossible. So God being just, had to hate evil, which was all mankind.
    Yes, a pointless circular story ending as man as the bad guy. What a crock of shyt. Yes lord I am unworthy! Its funny the new testament only applies when your held under the faults of gods old testament laws only to be condemned if you hear the new testament message but you have to live by old testamet rules if they apply and fit the message of the day.

    Under the new covenant or testament, God reveals we are not actually mankind, we are the spirit inside the body, not the body itself. Also, he reveals that he is our Father, and that we (those who experience life as mankind) are his children.
    Jesus loves the little children, preists just love them a little more. Starting to sound like l ron hubbard here.

    It's why we are here, to experience life as evil little bastards that die because of it. But no worries, it is only the body of flesh that God hates and causes to die, who we really are, the spirit within the body, never dies, but is eternal like God.
    WOW! Last time I had any evidence or proof of what you say is true was never. So you'd rather live your life for a magic sky pixie then as you want it. Okay, we live in a country that allows that. It never says anywhere that this life is a 'test' or a conditioning course for heaven. Still no proof of a spirit, or a god. Which is the core of religions. If you can't prove the basic tennants of religions in reality you argument is pointless.

    If you're going the 'heaven', what do you do there? Is your concept of heaven going to work withh the concept of heaven say for the 1200's?

    If you listen to what organizations say about God, the bible itself says that the organization, known as the beast, will rend you to pieces. That's why God sent JC, to free you from evil mankind who judges according to the knowledge of good and evil, and not according to the fact that we are all God's children, having a physical temporary experience of death.
    Oh yippie skippy. 'The organization' AKA 'gods mafia' (wink wink) gives us eternal insurance against the baddies gods tells us is gonna happen unless we take the 'free' insurance. You just have to give a little piece of your pie...[ahem] thing is I don't listen to what 'organizations' tell me. I'm smart enough to make decisions on my own. Its not hard to determine on ones own intelligence that the bible (though does make some good points) is bunk. The stories are immoral, and just plain stupid.

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