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Thread: Is Satan real?

  1. #1
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    Is Satan real?

    In a dream, I saw a long thick snake, longer than I've ever seen, slithering on the ground. The body was mostly dark but the underside was visible. On the bottom were tentacles clustered close together like a brush. About every ten inches inches were pods with two white eggs resembling a moth or spider nest.

    I was at the front by the snake's head. The head was small in size compared to its body. It moved toward me with thread-like tongues, about six in number, each one with a lethal dose of poison.

    In my hand was a machete. As the snake's tongues reached to bit me, my hand came down with the machete and cut off its head.

    As the snake lay still on the ground, I got another close look at its underside. The pods were empty, but the brush-like tentacles had a semi-florescent glow. You might say it had a weird surreal look.
    Last edited by Cnance; 10-05-2010 at 08:06 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: Is Satan real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    In a dream, I saw a long thick snake, longer than I've ever seen, slithering on the ground. The body was mostly dark but the underside was visible. On the bottom were tentacles clustered close together like a brush. About every ten inches inches were pods with two white eggs resembling a moth or spider nest.

    I was at the front by the snake's head. The head was small in size compared to its body. It moved toward me with thread-like tongues, about six in number, each one with a lethal dose of poison.

    In my hand was a machete. As the snake's tongues reached to bit me, my hand came down with the machete and cut off its head.

    As the snake lay still on the ground, I got another close look at its underside. The pods were empty, but the brush-like tentacles had a semi-florescent glow. You might say it had a weird surreal look.
    Satan may not necessarily be of psycical form, but he is negative e nergy, a negative force.
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  3. #3
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    Re: Is Satan real?

    Whether Satan exists or not is basically irrelevant. One thing we have discovered in the study of mathematics since Godel's time is that it is impossible to list all truth statements in a mathematical system, and even if we could, there would also exist false statements in that same system.

    The "wheat and chaff" cannot be separated by any effort of the human mind.

    Add to that the problem pointed out by Eric Hoffer in his study of cults and mass movements, and you begin to realize that the very attempt to organize a system that personifies good generally tends to result in enhanced evil.

    The reason for this is that, by giving ourselves over to any organization in a religious sense, we become "estranged from the self". That is, our individual life and importance takes second place to the group.

    When our own life is seen as sacrificial to a group, it becomes easier to sacrifice other lives that do not belong to the group.

    By submerging ourselves into a cult or mass movement, we are "free" to lie, bully, murder, and torture in the name of a greater good. The torture chamber, wrote Hoffer, is an instrument of civilization.

    Since these processes are systems demanding mechanical organization of processes, I would suggest that "Satan" if he exists, derives his power from denying life affirming individuality in favor of life denying collectivism in the name of mechanical rules, dogma, or doctrine that tells the individual to sacrifice him/her self to a greater good, which is impossible to identify.

    As Philip Slater points out in "EarthWalk", a machine-like response had no value in nature until men began to make war on each other.

    Science is neither good nor bad. It seeks to discover or understand those rules and laws of the universe. Religion, however, causes us to define the "good" as that which has been collectivized into rules which we teach others they must obey.

    That's why jesus taught in Matthew 24;23 that "if any man says, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not".

    Only by complete affirmation and responsibility of the self can anyone achieve moral truth. Jesus said I AM the way, the truth, the life".

    Truth, as we know from Godel's theorem, cannot be packaged in any axomatic system.

  4. #4
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    Re: Is Satan real?

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Whether Satan exists or not is basically irrelevant. One thing we have discovered in the study of mathematics since Godel's time is that it is impossible to list all truth statements in a mathematical system, and even if we could, there would also exist false statements in that same system.

    The "wheat and chaff" cannot be separated by any effort of the human mind.

    Add to that the problem pointed out by Eric Hoffer in his study of cults and mass movements, and you begin to realize that the very attempt to organize a system that personifies good generally tends to result in enhanced evil.

    The reason for this is that, by giving ourselves over to any organization in a religious sense, we become "estranged from the self". That is, our individual life and importance takes second place to the group.

    Again, that's my belief without empirical support.

    When our own life is seen as sacrificial to a group, it becomes easier to sacrifice other lives that do not belong to the group.

    By submerging ourselves into a cult or mass movement, we are "free" to lie, bully, murder, and torture in the name of a greater good. The torture chamber, wrote Hoffer, is an instrument of civilization.

    Since these processes are systems demanding mechanical organization of processes, I would suggest that "Satan" if he exists, derives his power from denying life affirming individuality in favor of life denying collectivism in the name of mechanical rules, dogma, or doctrine that tells the individual to sacrifice him/her self to a greater good, which is impossible to identify.

    As Philip Slater points out in "EarthWalk", a machine-like response had no value in nature until men began to make war on each other.

    Science is neither good nor bad. It seeks to discover or understand those rules and laws of the universe. Religion, however, causes us to define the "good" as that which has been collectivized into rules which we teach others they must obey.

    That's why jesus taught in Matthew 24;23 that "if any man says, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not".

    Only by complete affirmation and responsibility of the self can anyone achieve moral truth. Jesus said I AM the way, the truth, the life".

    Truth, as we know from Godel's theorem, cannot be packaged in any axomatic system.
    I like Eric Hoffer's books, especially the ones about social movements.

    I agree, there are many different ways in which humans torture, oppress and just plan abuse each other.

    I believe there is much evidence for Satan's enormous influence in the world.

    I'm not proposing another cult of religion based on a belief in Satan. I just think he exists. I've had three major dreams about him. This last one is total mystery, although I have a theory about it. The others where about Satan disturbing heaven and being imprisoned in the universe. I therefore believe that because Satan was the reason for the universe, he's an extremely important player.

    Again, that's my belief without empirical support.
    Last edited by Cnance; 10-07-2010 at 07:07 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is Satan real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I like Eric Hoffer's books, especially the ones about social movements.

    I agree, there are many different ways in which humans torture, oppress and just plan abuse each other.

    I believe there is much evidence for Satan's enormous influence in the world.

    I'm not proposing another cult of religion based on a belief in Satan. I just think he exists. I've had three major dreams about him. This last one is total mystery, although I have a theory about it. The others where about Satan disturbing heaven and being imprisoned in the universe. I therefore believe that because Satan was the reason for the universe, he's an extremely important player.

    Again, that's my belief without empirical support.
    First off, it's not just the religious groups that wind up torturing and oppressing people, but any man made groups, including countries, states, cities, towns, ymca, moose lodges, ect. They all are run by man, so yes, man corrupts all that he touches, the way it was meant to be, part of the lesson.

    Is Satan real? At least according to the book itself, yes. What is Satan? An Angel. What are angels? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister to them who will be heirs of salvation. Who are the heirs of salvation, those created in the image of God.

    So...whether or not it is a "good" angel or "bad" angel, they are all mankind's ministers, to do the will of God on us. Whether they are keeping us from dashing our foot upon a stone, or whether they are tempting us to do evil, they are spirits that minister the will of God on us.
    whack it:judges:

  6. #6
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    Re: Is Satan real?

    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    First off, it's not just the religious groups that wind up torturing and oppressing people, but any man made groups, including countries, states, cities, towns, ymca, moose lodges, ect. They all are run by man, so yes, man corrupts all that he touches, the way it was meant to be, part of the lesson.

    Is Satan real? At least according to the book itself, yes. What is Satan? An Angel. What are angels? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister to them who will be heirs of salvation. Who are the heirs of salvation, those created in the image of God.

    So...whether or not it is a "good" angel or "bad" angel, they are all mankind's ministers, to do the will of God on us. Whether they are keeping us from dashing our foot upon a stone, or whether they are tempting us to do evil, they are spirits that minister the will of God on us.
    Yep, that's why neither church nor state is to be trusted.

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