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Thread: Genocide

  1. #1
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    Genocide

    When faced with an advocacy of genocide, what should a person do?

    a) Support the call for genocide.
    b) Do nothing.
    c) Condemn the call for genocide.

    Which is the morally correct choice? What do members think?

    I would assert that (b) is tacitly equivalent to (a).

    (I would add that this question has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It does not address whether or not people have or should have the "right" to advocate genocide. It's simply a question about the proper response to the advocacy of genocide. It's a question about the response of moral individuals to immoral and hateful statements.)

  2. #2
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    Re: Genocide

    C

    In the 'real world'... without a doubt, whatever the cost.

    In the 'cyber world' of blogs, forums and internet chat opposing it is one thing... getting an obstinate advocate to (a) admit their advocacy or (b) understand what they are supporting... is another matter.

  3. #3
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    Re: Genocide

    Good answer. I, of course, agree wholeheartedly.

  4. #4
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    Re: Genocide

    If b is the same as a why make them two choices? If this board or people's answers do not fall under freedom of speech why bother asking?

    If faced with a leadership in this country who was advocating that Americans should call for the genocide of any nation I would vehemently oppose it. I would become the Cindy Sheehan of opposition.

    On an opinion board, such as Scam.com, I don't get anul over what a person may or may not say when it comes to politics.

    Lady Mod

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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    If b is the same as a why make them two choices?
    Good question. I presume your asking means you agree that silence is nothing more than tacit support.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    If this board or people's answers do not fall under freedom of speech why bother asking?
    I don't understand your question. Of course people's answers "fall under freedom of speech". Everyone who answers is exercising their right to free speech. I never suggested otherwise. What I said is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    I would add that this question has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It does not address whether or not people have or should have the "right" to advocate genocide. It's simply a question about the proper response to the advocacy of genocide. It's a question about the response of moral individuals to immoral and hateful statements.
    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    If faced with a leadership in this country who was advocating that Americans should call for the genocide of any nation I would vehemently oppose it. I would become the Cindy Sheehan of opposition. On an opinion board, such as Scam.com, I don't get anul over what a person may or may not say when it comes to politics.
    If you would oppose advocacy of genocide if it originated within the leadership of the U.S., why should you remain silent if it originates elsewhere?

    Regardless of the origin, is not advocacy of genocide warranting of our condemnation? If, in your example, a member of scam.com advocates genocide, to we not condemn his statement simply because he is not amongst the "leadership" of the U.S.?

    Why do you feel one individual's advocacy of genocide is less worthy of condemnation than another's?

  6. #6
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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Good question. I presume your asking means you agree that silence is nothing more than tacit support.
    Nope, you are wrong. I'm wondering why you would give three options IF only two count?

    I don't understand your question. Of course people's answers "fall under freedom of speech". Everyone who answers is exercising their right to free speech. I never suggested otherwise. What I said is:
    If they have freedom of speech, why put qualifiers on the answers? It appears more like you are trying to direct the conversation your way instead of just allowing people to state their opinions. IMO.

    If you would oppose advocacy of genocide if it originated within the leadership of the U.S., why should you remain silent if it originates elsewhere?

    Regardless of the origin, is not advocacy of genocide warranting of our condemnation? If, in your example, a member of scam.com advocates genocide, to we not condemn his statement simply because he is not amongst the "leadership" of the U.S.?

    Why do you feel one individual's advocacy of genocide is less worthy of condemnation than another's?
    Yir, it would depend on the circumstances and what goes on behind the scenes. Things I am not always privileged to and neither is anyone else. People advocate the genocide of negros in America all the time. We establish laws to prevent such a thing from happening and to allow those who would try to act on such a thing to be brought to justice.

    You can condemn a member's advocacy of genocide on scam.com, sure, just not in a thread made for condemning that person or setting them up as an example, nor is it prudent to bring that topic to other threads when it doesn't get addressed in the manner you want it to on the originating thread that the advocating started on. And it's not prudent to mention that anyone who did not condemn that same person supports that person by either their silence or lack of interest in the subject.

    And as we see daily, the leadership of this country feels he can do all kinds of abhorent things to other countries contrary to law. Which is partly why I speak out against him.

    Lady Mod

  7. #7
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    Re: Genocide

    Hi Yir,

    I believe where SJA was going with her final statement was, pretty much, the same direction I was heading in. By that I mean many of us who frequent boards like this, while having a passing interest in social/political issues, are not in positions where our opinions have much effect... other than where we happen to be posting. I hope I'm being clear with this *lol* I'll try again :)

    In this little 'scam forum world' our opinions have little to no effect on reality other than to possibly inform a reader. Where I was going and, possibly SJA (can't speak for her) is that if some doofus is advocating genocide in an open forum then there is not a lot one can do about it... short of admin disciplinary action (if deemed appropriate by admin) or simply considering the source and ignoring the poster.

    At least that is the final interpretation of my post and was my understanding of SJA's last statement.

  8. #8
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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    Hi Yir,

    I believe where SJA was going with her final statement was, pretty much, the same direction I was heading in. By that I mean many of us who frequent boards like this, while having a passing interest in social/political issues, are not in positions where our opinions have much effect... other than where we happen to be posting. I hope I'm being clear with this *lol* I'll try again :)

    In this little 'scam forum world' our opinions have little to no effect on reality other than to possibly inform a reader. Where I was going and, possibly SJA (can't speak for her) is that if some doofus is advocating genocide in an open forum then there is not a lot one can do about it... short of admin disciplinary action (if deemed appropriate by admin) or simply considering the source and ignoring the poster.

    At least that is the final interpretation of my post and was my understanding of SJA's last statement.
    Thank you. You are Sooo correct.

    Sheesh, I am beginning to think that I need to locate where Yir resides and send the authorities over to look for the POD.

    Lady Mod
    Last edited by sojustask; 06-06-2006 at 05:34 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Genocide

    You shall know that I am Yahweh, when their slain men shall be among their idols around their altars, on every high hill, on all the tops of the mountains, and under every green tree, and under every thick oak, the places where they offered pleasant aroma to all their idols. --Yahweh

    I will stretch out my hand on them, and make the land desolate and waste, from the wilderness toward Diblah, throughout all their habitations: and they shall know that I am Yahweh.
    --Yahweh

    Excuse us, Yahweh....but have you cleared all this with the moral sage Yirmeyahoo and his new dancing monkey sidekick, Grim, yet? Heaven forbid, but they will certainly accuse you of immorality and genocide.
    Last edited by dchristie; 06-06-2006 at 08:03 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Nope, you are wrong. I'm wondering why you would give three options IF only two count?
    I stated my opinion that "(b) is tacitly equivalent to (a)". I left it open to debate. Why? Because I want to know what people think.

    Why do you feel differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    If they have freedom of speech, why put qualifiers on the answers?
    I'm not sure what you mean by "qualifiers". If you are referring to my statement that I believe "(b) is tacitly equivalent to (a)", I would refer you to my above response.

    Moreover, how does me stating my belief that "(b) is tacitly equivalent to (a)" lead to the conclusion that I am somehow limiting others' freedom of speech? That's a non sequitur.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    It appears more like you are trying to direct the conversation your way instead of just allowing people to state their opinions.
    People can state whatever they like. If anyone disagrees with my opinion, they are welcome to say so. But me expressing an opinion hardly constitutes some sort of attempt to deny others freedom of speech. That's irrational nonsense, if that's indeed what you're trying to imply.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    People advocate the genocide of negros in America all the time.
    And that is condemnable. Do you not agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    You can condemn a member's advocacy of genocide on scam.com, sure, just not in a thread made for condemning that person or setting them up as an example, nor is it prudent to bring that topic to other threads when it doesn't get addressed in the manner you want it to on the originating thread that the advocating started on.
    Why, sojustask, you said that "if you want to start a thread asking people what their feelings are about genocide" that you would "have no problems with that".

    That is what I've done, to start a thread asking people what their feelings are about genocide. Do you have a problem with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    And it's not prudent to mention that anyone who did not condemn that same person supports that person by either their silence or lack of interest in the subject.
    Why is my statement "I would assert that (b) is tacitly equivalent to (a)" imprudent?

    I'm expressing my opinion. You're welcome to disagree. Since you seem to disagree, I would ask why you feel differently.

    That is, after all, the point of this thread: to understand people's opinions about the matter.

    What's a "POD"?

  11. #11
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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    Where I was going and, possibly SJA (can't speak for her) is that if some doofus is advocating genocide in an open forum then there is not a lot one can do about it... short of admin disciplinary action (if deemed appropriate by admin) or simply considering the source and ignoring the poster.
    But you answered the question "C", with the caveat, "C In the 'real world'... without a doubt, whatever the cost."

    You seem to be making a distinction between "the real world" and a forum like this, as though by posting on scam.com, one is removing his or herself from reality and entering into some fantasy world where anything goes.

    I reject that distinction and would assert that advocating genocide in print is no less heinous than advocating genocide verbally, that advocating genocide in an online forum from the privacy of one's own room is no less heinous than verbally advocating genocide in public.

    The medium is irrelevant. Advocating genocide is immoral regardless, and warrants condemnation regardless.

  12. #12
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    Re: Genocide

    dchristie,

    What are you trying to suggest? Are you trying to suggest that advocating genocide is morally justifiable based on some Bible verses? If not, then what?

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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    I stated my opinion that "(b) is tacitly equivalent to (a)". I left it open to debate. Why? Because I want to know what people think.

    Why do you feel differently?
    Do you really want to know what people think or are you just telling them what their answers represent?


    Moreover, how does me stating my belief that "(b) is tacitly equivalent to (a)" lead to the conclusion that I am somehow limiting others' freedom of speech? That's a non sequitur.

    People can state whatever they like. If anyone disagrees with my opinion, they are welcome to say so. But me expressing an opinion hardly constitutes some sort of attempt to deny others freedom of speech. That's irrational nonsense, if that's indeed what you're trying to imply.
    You started the thread, you set the tone. You give three choices of which only two have any meaning so technically the third choice is irrelevant. There are only two choices.

    People already understand by your statement that the purpose for the thread is to possibly catch them in a trap. Of course then you will run circles around them and not accept their opinions like you did with Paul. So what is the point of posting an answer. You dearly want to debate genocide, but I think you will have a hard time debating yourself.


    And that is condemnable. Do you not agree?
    Did I disagree?

    Why, sojustask, you said that "if you want to start a thread asking people what their feelings are about genocide" that you would "have no problems with that".

    That is what I've done, to start a thread asking people what their feelings are about genocide. Do you have a problem with it?
    I didn't say I had a problem with it did I? Just questioned your methods of obtaining the opinions.

    Why is my statement "I would assert that (b) is tacitly equivalent to (a)" imprudent?
    I believe that you asked this already and I answered it.

    I'm expressing my opinion. You're welcome to disagree. Since you seem to disagree, I would ask why you feel differently.

    That is, after all, the point of this thread: to understand people's opinions about the matter.
    I don't agree with your opinion on genocide? Perhaps you need a new translator? I wish you well in understanding anyone these days Yir, you seem to be having a hell of a lot of trouble doing just that.

    What's a "POD"?

    Apparently you are unfamiliar with the movie "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers"? The aliens sent down clones in giant pods that took over the lifeforce of the human. They became much like the Neocons of today and other unenlightened adults were fooled many times by the POD people.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049366/


    Lady Mod
    Last edited by sojustask; 06-06-2006 at 09:55 PM.

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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Quote Originally Posted by Yir
    What is a POD?
    Apparently you are unfamiliar with the movie "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers"? The aliens sent down clones in giant pods that took over the lifeforce of the human. They became much like the Neocons of today and other unenlightened adults were fooled many times by the POD people.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049366/
    Lady Mod
    I thought you had just made a typo and hit "D" when you should have hit "S". (side by side on the keyboard). But it seems to work either way. :)

  15. #15
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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    I thought you had just made a typo and hit "D" when you should have hit "S". (side by side on the keyboard). But it seems to work either way. :)

    LOL, I shamelessly show my age. I remember the POD people.

    LM

  16. #16
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    Re: Genocide

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    LOL, I shamelessly show my age. I remember the POD people.

    LM
    As do I, assuming you mean the 1978 version and not the 1956 version.;)

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