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  1. #1
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    Burning Korans

    They should have a hog roast along with this!


    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/us...ille.html?_r=1

    Far From Ground Zero, Obscure Pastor Is Ignored No Longer

    Chip Litherland for The New York Times
    Pastor Terry Jones plans to burn multiple copies of the Koran on the anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks.

    By DAMIEN CAVE

    Published: August 25, 2010





    GAINESVILLE, Fla. — If building an Islamic center near ground zero amounts to the epitome of Muslim insensitivity, as critics of the project have claimed, what should the world make of Terry Jones, the evangelical pastor here who plans to memorialize the Sept. 11 attacks with a bonfire of Korans?




    For local Muslims like Saeed Khan, the collective rejection of Mr. Jones represents the America they want to believe in.





    Mr. Jones, 58, a former hotel manager with a red face and a white handlebar mustache, argues that as an American Christian he has a right to burn Islam’s sacred book because “it’s full of lies.” And in another era, he might have been easily ignored, as he was last year when he posted a sign at his church declaring “Islam is of the devil.”
    But now the global spotlight has shifted. With the debate in New York putting religious tensions front and center, Mr. Jones has suddenly attracted thousands of fans and critics on Facebook, while around the world he is being presented as a symbol of American anti-Islamic sentiment.



    Muslim leaders in several countries, including Egypt and Indonesia, have formally condemned him and his church, the Dove World Outreach Center.



    An Islamic group in England has also incorporated his efforts into a YouTube video that encourages Muslims to “rise up and act,” widening a concern that Mr. Jones — though clearly a fringe figure with only 50 members in his church — could spark riots or terrorism.
    “Can you imagine what this will do to our image around the world?” said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington. “And the additional danger it will add whenever there is an American presence in Iraq or Afghanistan?”



    Mr. Jones, in a lengthy interview at his church, said he sincerely hoped that his planned Koran-burning would not lead to violence. He dismissed the idea that it could put American troops at greater risk, and — echoing his sermons — he said that his church was being persecuted.



    He said his bank recently demanded immediate repayment of the $140,000 balance on the church mortgage; that his property insurance had been canceled since he announced in late July that he intended to burn copies of the Koran; and that death threats now come in regularly.



    “We have to be careful,” he said. He tapped a holster on the right hip of his jean shorts; it held a .40-caliber pistol, which he said he was licensed to carry. “The overall response,” he added, “has been much greater than we expected.”
    Mr. Jones who seems to spend much of his time inside a dank, dark office with a poster from the movie “Braveheart” and a picture of former President George W. Bush, appears to be largely oblivious to the potential consequences of his plans. Speaking in short sentences with a matter-of-fact drawl, he said that he could not understand why other Christians, including the nation’s largest evangelical association, had called for him to cancel “International Burn a Koran Day.”



    He acknowledged that it had brought in at least $1,000 in donations. But he said that the interviews he had done with around 150 news outlets all over the world were useful mainly because they had helped him “send a message to Islam and the pushers of Shariah law: that it is not what we want.”
    Mr. Jones said that nothing in particular had set him off. Asked about his knowledge of the Koran, he said plainly: “I have no experience with it whatsoever. I only know what the Bible says.”



    Nonetheless, his position and variations on his tactics have become more common, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Florida in particular has had a rise in anti-Islamic activity. In May, an arsonist set off a pipe bomb at a mosque in Jacksonville in what authorities called an actof domestic terrorism. A mosque and Islamic school south of Miami was vandalized twice last year, the first time with a spray of 51 bullets.



    Just as disturbing to Florida’s Muslims, and to many Christians and Jews, is that anti-Islamic rhetoric has begun to enter the mainstream through Republican political candidates.



    Some of the opposition predated the controversy about the proposed Islamic center near ground zero. In March, for example, Allen West, a retired Army officer running for Congress in Broward County, told a group of supporters that “Islam is not a religion” but rather “a vicious enemy” that was “infiltrating” the United States. (A campaign spokesman said last week that Mr. West meant to refer to radical Islam, not Islam generally.)



    Ron McNeil, a candidate for Congress in the Florida Panhandle, told a group of high school and middle school students last week that Islam’s plan “is to destroy our way of life.” He added: “It’s our place as Christians to stand up for the word of God and what the Bible says.”



    Similar sentiments now flow daily into the e-mail inbox of the Dove World Outreach Center. Mr. Jones said that the negative e-mails outnumbered the positive by about 3 to 1, but that strangers had sent 20 copies of the Koran and a church worker produced hundreds of supportive e-mails that had come in over the past three weeks.
    A dozen of those messages revealed a wide range of motivations. For a few people — a Christian in Afghanistan, an Iraqi in Massachusetts, a Jew who called his co-religionists in the United States “soft in the head” — direct experience with Islamic extremists seemed to have darkened their views. Others seemed motivated by little more than hate, arguing that Korans should be barbecued with pork, which is banned by Islam.



    Mr. Jones’s plan faced a new hurdle last week when the Gainesville Fire Department rejected his request for a burning permit. Mr. Jones said he would go ahead anyway (“it’s just politics”), and he predicted a quite a scene.
    Some of his neighbors, like Shirley Turner, a retiree who shivered with disgust when Mr. Jones’s name came up in conversation, are already planning to protest with signs calling for unity.



    More than a dozen houses of worship, of various faiths, also intend to respond collectively on the weekend of Sept. 11 by “affirming the validity of all sacred books,” said Larry Reimer, pastor of the United Church of Christ.



    Some pastors even plan to read from the Koran in their services.



    For local Muslims like Saeed Khan, who came here in the 1970s to study for a Ph.D. in biology at the University of Florida, the collective rejection of Mr. Jones represents the America they want to believe in. In an interview at an Islamic center that used to be a Brown Derby restaurant, Dr. Khan said that “Mr. Jones is hijacking Christianity” just as “Al Qaeda hijacked Islam.”



    What saddens him most, he said, is the lasting effect on Muslim youth. He now has three grandchildren under age 3 growing up in Gainesville, and he shook his head at the story of a friend’s daughter who woke up in the middle of the night and asked her mother, “Why don’t they like us?”



    Still, like many others, he rejected the moment’s swirl of anger. Even if Muslims outside the United States respond to the planned Koran burning with protests, or worse, Mr. Khan said he would spend his Sept. 11 doing the same thing he did last year. He will be downtown, a few miles from Mr. Jones, feeding the homeless.
    I swear by my life and my love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for me.
    John Galt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    117

    Re: Burning Korans

    Quote Originally Posted by SnappyDan View Post
    They should have a hog roast along with this!


    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/us...ille.html?_r=1

    Far From Ground Zero, Obscure Pastor Is Ignored No Longer

    Chip Litherland for The New York Times
    Pastor Terry Jones plans to burn multiple copies of the Koran on the anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks.

    By DAMIEN CAVE

    Published: August 25, 2010





    GAINESVILLE, Fla. — If building an Islamic center near ground zero amounts to the epitome of Muslim insensitivity, as critics of the project have claimed, what should the world make of Terry Jones, the evangelical pastor here who plans to memorialize the Sept. 11 attacks with a bonfire of Korans?




    For local Muslims like Saeed Khan, the collective rejection of Mr. Jones represents the America they want to believe in.





    Mr. Jones, 58, a former hotel manager with a red face and a white handlebar mustache, argues that as an American Christian he has a right to burn Islam’s sacred book because “it’s full of lies.” And in another era, he might have been easily ignored, as he was last year when he posted a sign at his church declaring “Islam is of the devil.”
    But now the global spotlight has shifted. With the debate in New York putting religious tensions front and center, Mr. Jones has suddenly attracted thousands of fans and critics on Facebook, while around the world he is being presented as a symbol of American anti-Islamic sentiment.



    Muslim leaders in several countries, including Egypt and Indonesia, have formally condemned him and his church, the Dove World Outreach Center.



    An Islamic group in England has also incorporated his efforts into a YouTube video that encourages Muslims to “rise up and act,” widening a concern that Mr. Jones — though clearly a fringe figure with only 50 members in his church — could spark riots or terrorism.
    “Can you imagine what this will do to our image around the world?” said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington. “And the additional danger it will add whenever there is an American presence in Iraq or Afghanistan?”



    Mr. Jones, in a lengthy interview at his church, said he sincerely hoped that his planned Koran-burning would not lead to violence. He dismissed the idea that it could put American troops at greater risk, and — echoing his sermons — he said that his church was being persecuted.



    He said his bank recently demanded immediate repayment of the $140,000 balance on the church mortgage; that his property insurance had been canceled since he announced in late July that he intended to burn copies of the Koran; and that death threats now come in regularly.



    “We have to be careful,” he said. He tapped a holster on the right hip of his jean shorts; it held a .40-caliber pistol, which he said he was licensed to carry. “The overall response,” he added, “has been much greater than we expected.”
    Mr. Jones who seems to spend much of his time inside a dank, dark office with a poster from the movie “Braveheart” and a picture of former President George W. Bush, appears to be largely oblivious to the potential consequences of his plans. Speaking in short sentences with a matter-of-fact drawl, he said that he could not understand why other Christians, including the nation’s largest evangelical association, had called for him to cancel “International Burn a Koran Day.”



    He acknowledged that it had brought in at least $1,000 in donations. But he said that the interviews he had done with around 150 news outlets all over the world were useful mainly because they had helped him “send a message to Islam and the pushers of Shariah law: that it is not what we want.”
    Mr. Jones said that nothing in particular had set him off. Asked about his knowledge of the Koran, he said plainly: “I have no experience with it whatsoever. I only know what the Bible says.”



    Nonetheless, his position and variations on his tactics have become more common, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Florida in particular has had a rise in anti-Islamic activity. In May, an arsonist set off a pipe bomb at a mosque in Jacksonville in what authorities called an actof domestic terrorism. A mosque and Islamic school south of Miami was vandalized twice last year, the first time with a spray of 51 bullets.



    Just as disturbing to Florida’s Muslims, and to many Christians and Jews, is that anti-Islamic rhetoric has begun to enter the mainstream through Republican political candidates.



    Some of the opposition predated the controversy about the proposed Islamic center near ground zero. In March, for example, Allen West, a retired Army officer running for Congress in Broward County, told a group of supporters that “Islam is not a religion” but rather “a vicious enemy” that was “infiltrating” the United States. (A campaign spokesman said last week that Mr. West meant to refer to radical Islam, not Islam generally.)



    Ron McNeil, a candidate for Congress in the Florida Panhandle, told a group of high school and middle school students last week that Islam’s plan “is to destroy our way of life.” He added: “It’s our place as Christians to stand up for the word of God and what the Bible says.”



    Similar sentiments now flow daily into the e-mail inbox of the Dove World Outreach Center. Mr. Jones said that the negative e-mails outnumbered the positive by about 3 to 1, but that strangers had sent 20 copies of the Koran and a church worker produced hundreds of supportive e-mails that had come in over the past three weeks.
    A dozen of those messages revealed a wide range of motivations. For a few people — a Christian in Afghanistan, an Iraqi in Massachusetts, a Jew who called his co-religionists in the United States “soft in the head” — direct experience with Islamic extremists seemed to have darkened their views. Others seemed motivated by little more than hate, arguing that Korans should be barbecued with pork, which is banned by Islam.



    Mr. Jones’s plan faced a new hurdle last week when the Gainesville Fire Department rejected his request for a burning permit. Mr. Jones said he would go ahead anyway (“it’s just politics”), and he predicted a quite a scene.
    Some of his neighbors, like Shirley Turner, a retiree who shivered with disgust when Mr. Jones’s name came up in conversation, are already planning to protest with signs calling for unity.



    More than a dozen houses of worship, of various faiths, also intend to respond collectively on the weekend of Sept. 11 by “affirming the validity of all sacred books,” said Larry Reimer, pastor of the United Church of Christ.



    Some pastors even plan to read from the Koran in their services.



    For local Muslims like Saeed Khan, who came here in the 1970s to study for a Ph.D. in biology at the University of Florida, the collective rejection of Mr. Jones represents the America they want to believe in. In an interview at an Islamic center that used to be a Brown Derby restaurant, Dr. Khan said that “Mr. Jones is hijacking Christianity” just as “Al Qaeda hijacked Islam.”



    What saddens him most, he said, is the lasting effect on Muslim youth. He now has three grandchildren under age 3 growing up in Gainesville, and he shook his head at the story of a friend’s daughter who woke up in the middle of the night and asked her mother, “Why don’t they like us?”



    Still, like many others, he rejected the moment’s swirl of anger. Even if Muslims outside the United States respond to the planned Koran burning with protests, or worse, Mr. Khan said he would spend his Sept. 11 doing the same thing he did last year. He will be downtown, a few miles from Mr. Jones, feeding the homeless.


    Not cool, So not cool.

  3. #3
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    Mar 2005
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    Re: Burning Korans

    Quote Originally Posted by SnappyDan View Post
    They should have a hog roast along with this!
    LOL.. Snappydolt and his pals are giddy anytime there's a good book burning at the local house of Jesus.

    Things have been pretty dull around those parts since they outlawed burning witches and lynchin' niggers.



    .
    "The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
    -- Winston Churchill

  4. #4
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    Re: Burning Korans

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesNK4 View Post
    Not cool, So not cool.

    I'd like to think that it was tongue-in-cheek, to prove that he could make Islamics the world over threaten to kill him, thus demonstrating their intolerance. Which they quickly did.

    However...


    I think he might actually burn some Korans!



    .
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
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    6,553

    Re: Burning Korans

    It's kind of sad that people put so much stock in a mere book... that is reproduced by the thousands on a daily basis. Burn one... print one thousand. net gain = 999.

    But, they believe their life stems from it... as if burning it would destroy their life. Sad...

    Why not just host a barbecue and say you're doing it in protest? Maybe sear little "Ks" into the pork chops?

    .

  6. #6
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    Re: Burning Korans

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza. View Post
    I suppose the Muslim world should be more tolerant of those who threaten (or carry out) acts like burning the Koran.

    Perhaps they should react more like God-fearing adult Christians and burn a few Bibles in retaliation?

    The difference being, of course, that most Christians couldn't give two hoots if someone were to burn a Bible, but for Muslims, who believe their very existence is based on the Koran, it is a direct spit in the face.

    What would you do if someone spat in your face, Oh Pious One?


    .
    So, New yorkers feel like building a Mosque next to Ground Zero is a spit in the face also... Do we appease all of them?? Some of them?? None of them??
    **********
    "I have never understood why it is considered "greed" to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money"

    - Thomas Sowell
    http://www.tsowell.com/

    *********

  7. #7

    Re: Burning Korans

    Burning the Koran is horribly wrong. It is disrespectful, it is hateful, and this pastor should not be doing this at all, ESPECIALLY under the guise of claiming it is in memory or honor of those lost in 9-11.

    Intolerantly burning the Koran is an act that spawns from the same place the idea for the attack on 9-11 spawned from... hate.

    And we must remember who committed that egregious act on 9-11, it was not the muslim religion it was those on the lunatic fringe of it, not the common participant in the faith but the extremist.

    If we want tolerance we must be willing to give it, and isn't the fundamental principle of christianity love and charity?

    This man cannot do this can call himself a Christian. Such an act would have never been condoned by Christ. So if this man is not acting for christianity or Christ, in who's name is he acting?

  8. #8

    Re: Burning Korans

    Quote Originally Posted by ElizabethCoyote View Post
    Burning the Koran is horribly wrong. It is disrespectful, it is hateful, and this pastor should not be doing this at all, ESPECIALLY under the guise of claiming it is in memory or honor of those lost in 9-11.

    Intolerantly burning the Koran is an act that spawns from the same place the idea for the attack on 9-11 spawned from... hate.

    And we must remember who committed that egregious act on 9-11, it was not the muslim religion it was those on the lunatic fringe of it, not the common participant in the faith but the extremist.

    If we want tolerance we must be willing to give it, and isn't the fundamental principle of christianity love and charity?

    This man cannot do this can call himself a Christian. Such an act would have never been condoned by Christ. So if this man is not acting for christianity or Christ, in who's name is he acting?
    You say that burning the Koran is "horribly wrong". That it is "disrespectful and hateful". I'll tell you what is horribly wrong, disrespectful and hateful, and that is when people in the Middle East burn the Flag of the United States and that has been going on long before 9/11.

    You and many other people may not like or agree with what that pastor wants to do in burning the Koran, but he has every right to do it.
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  9. #9
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    Re: Burning Korans

    =
    [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Pope Pius VII, Diu Satis (# 15), May 15, 1800: Books which openly oppose the teaching of Christ are to be burned. Even more importantly, the eyes and minds of all must be kept from books, which do so more steathily and deceitfully… So the sheep of Christ should consider safe and eat cheerfully the food to which Peter’s voice and authority directs them; but despite any beauty and charm, they should shun as harmful and plague-ridden, what this voice forbids them. Those who do not comply are certainly not to be counted among the sheep of Christ.”[/FONT]
    [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]

  10. #10

    Re: Burning Korans

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight-mare View Post
    I'll tell you what is horribly wrong, disrespectful and hateful, and that is when people in the Middle East burn the Flag of the United States and that has been going on long before 9/11.
    I completely agree with you, that is a horrible act and one that is completely disrespectful and hateful. I agree that that too is "wrong" but do two wrong and disrespectful acts make a right? Is sinking to that intolerant level going to work to eliminate the intolerance or enflame it? It is important to be consistent, if it is indeed wrong to burn the flag, the symbol of america, we have to assume that burning the Koran, the symbol of Islam is also wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight-mare View Post
    You and many other people may not like or agree with what that pastor wants to do in burning the Koran, but he has every right to do it.
    Of course he has the right to do it. I never called that into question. But just because you have the right to do something, does not make it "right" to do it. Hate begets hate, and as the most free nation in the world it is our responsibility to use our rights wisely with grounded principles and moral integrity.

  11. #11

    Re: Burning Korans

    Quote Originally Posted by ElizabethCoyote View Post
    I completely agree with you, that is a horrible act and one that is completely disrespectful and hateful. I agree that that too is "wrong" but do two wrong and disrespectful acts make a right? Is sinking to that intolerant level going to work to eliminate the intolerance or enflame it? It is important to be consistent, if it is indeed wrong to burn the flag, the symbol of america, we have to assume that burning the Koran, the symbol of Islam is also wrong.



    Of course he has the right to do it. I never called that into question. But just because you have the right to do something, does not make it "right" to do it. Hate begets hate, and as the most free nation in the world it is our responsibility to use our rights wisely with grounded principles and moral integrity.
    Hate might beget hate, but I'll be up front with you on something. I wouldn't care if that pastor in FL. did happen to carrey out his plan to burn the Koran.
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

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