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  1. #1
    sojustask's Avatar
    sojustask is offline The Late, Great Lady Mod - Retired User Rank
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    An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Just imagine the great things that could be done if our government would stop funding ignorant studies like this one.
    ************************************************** *

    Editorial
    An Idea Worth Throwing Back
    After a yearlong experiment with rainbow trout, researchers at the University of Missouri have announced that feeding them creatine the body-building supplement Mark McGwire made infamous can improve their fighting ability. Actually, these experiments demonstrate that trout eating a 5 percent creatine diet can swim against the current far longer than fish that aren't taking the supplement. No one has tested these creatine rainbows against an actual angler. But that has not prevented the researchers from leaping to an economic conclusion. "Fishermen probably would pay a premium for a chance of catching fish that fought longer and harder," one of them said.

    Probably. But also probably not. A trout that is being fed creatine is being fed by humans. The ones at the University of Missouri were tested in double-walled plexiglass tubes. The ones that anglers are likely to hook would be living in ponds, where their diets could be supplemented with creatine. They would be hatchery fish. And that's where the irony of a study like this becomes apparent.

    If you've ever caught a wild rainbow trout truly wild, like those in the Delaware or the Madison River you know that it doesn't need any help from creatine. A hatchery trout is a different creature entirely a wan spirit reared in concrete tanks, fed trout pellets, and dumped into a foreign world on opening day. Creatine might make a difference to these fish and the anglers who catch them, but it's the wrong difference, especially since the F.D.A. hasn't approved creatine as a food additive. Anglers don't need creatine-enhanced hatchery trout. What we need are more wild trout in more wild rivers.
    ************************************************** **
    Remember what the trout eats you eat. So what can creatine do to you and your family?

    http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/workgnc.html

    .....Creatine phosphate is actually produced and stored by the kidneys and liver. So.... If the body is receiving an external supply of creatine, it will automatically shut down all production. This will create a condition, chemical dependency, making creatine a DRUG. Anyway, you'll be dependent on it. Later down the line, you'll experience kidney and liver damage. Why? Because the by-product of creatine, creatinine, is similar to uric acid, it is a toxin. When too much builds up, it puts stress on these two organs. (this may explain why one of your readers experienced a fiery pain, and why a lot of people breakout with pimples and get diarrhea, due to the body's inability to filter so much toxin.

    So, my point is that creatine is another fad, and all of these "studies", which are actually sponsored by companies, can be doctored to show the "results" that become when supplementing. I have been on creatine for three days, and finally came to my senses; People, IT'S ALL IN YOUR HEAD, PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL. Just eat adequate protein, carbs, and fats, and you'll grow just fine. And another thing about creatinine's similarities to uric acid, it could possibly cause gout, a form of arthritis that's characterized by crystallized uric acid in the joints, causing sharp pains. Think about that the next time you load up with some grape juice....
    --------------------------------------------------
    I have proof from doctors, surgeons, and RNs who see the screwed up people in their unit from that crap and about four other professionals that have no ax to grind that creatine is harmful. It does everything that was said. I took creatine and took the recommended dose and almost had double kidney failure from that crap, so do it is not bull. Eating meat isn't the same as putting a high concentration of creatine into your body. The surgeons who knows better then the fools that take creatine said "You know how many people I operate on who take that creatine because there organs fail".
    THIS STUFF IS DANGEROUS! I could have died from it. I am proof. I stopped taking creatine and I am working out and getting just as strong as I was without taking that crap. It angers me to see people not listen and don't care just cause they want results, EVEN IF IT WILL KILL THEM. I have news, NJ is banning creatine and so will all the states eventually and I am glad cause it will save people from there own ignorance. It is not FDA APPROVED because it is dangerous and as long as it does not state that it is a steroid on the bottle it can be sold anyway. That's all I have to say and I have a lot of respect for the GNC employee for telling the truth, God bless ya.
    ------------------------------------------
    Developed by British physiologist Roger Harris, it was first used by British sprinters in the 1992 Summer Games in Barcelona. Despite its dubious benefits, there is interest: a recent Internet query for creatine monohydrate yielded more than 300 specific hits. Manufacturers' suggested dosages vary. Most recommend a 5- to 7-day loading phase during which an athlete consumes 20 to 30 grams each day, and then a maintenance dosage of 5 to 20 grams each day after that. The loading phase alone can cost up to $30, and monthly costs for the maintenance phase can be even more.

    Noakes and Coyle cite concerns about the lack of research on use of creatine monohydrate as a performance-enhancing supplement. They question not only its efficacy but also its safety. 'Huge quantities of creatine monohydrate are being consumed,' says Coyle. Obtaining similar quantities of creatine by eating meat would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, he says, and the meat would have to be raw, or close to it. The ingestion of such a large quantity of creatine monohydrate raises questions about its long-term effects on organs and muscles, specifically the cardiac muscle, and potential effects on the kidney, such as its effect on creatinine clearance. And since it's classified as a nutritional supplement and therefore subject to less stringent regulation than drugs, there is no guarantee of its purity. Despite these concerns, use of creatine monohydrate is not illegal in international competition.

    'This is a perfect opportunity for clinical research,' says Coyle. It remains to be seen whether use of creatine monohydrate for enhancing training is harmful, beneficial, or just plain useless."



    .

  2. #2
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    I take micronized creatine monohydrate and it works. It has a number of benefits for body-building and no side-affects.
    The liquid form has been known to be dangerous but many health professionals and studies agree that in powder form it gives body-builders an edge and has no proven side-affects at this date.
    Aside from myself I have friends who have also benefited from micronized creatine monohydrate, particularly Red 8 but Horley's is also a reliable brand.

    I agree that it is a fad, by this I mean there are a lot of people who think it has dramatic benefits, but people who have taken it for a long time will know it's affects aren't dramatic but they do exist. For example in the loading phase it's common to gain 2 reps on the same weight on your final set, so those taking it will go from 12-12-8 sets to 12-12-10 sets for around 2 weeks, which does provide an edge.
    Increased dosages obviously aren't recommended and probably do lead to harmful side-affects but I know from first and second hand experience that when used properly it's safe.

    There are differing opinions on dosages, and you're right that a lot of brands suggest a longer loading phase, but the good brands, specifically Red 8 which has a patented form of MCM called Creapure (American Patent 5719319 according to the label), suggest that you do the following - I'm copying straight from the label:

    Loading Phase:
    Day 1 take 30 grams divided into 6 x 5 gram amounts with grape juice or dextrose or maltodextrin type drink.
    Day 2 - 7 take 15 grams divided into 3 x 5 gram amounts (increase to 20 grams if your body weight is over 90 kg)

    Maintenance Phase:
    Day 8 onwards take a daily 5 gram dose.
    The suggested cycle for creatine is 6-8 weeks on with 4-6 weeks off before beginning the cycle again.

  3. #3
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Just imagine the great things that could be done if our government would stop funding ignorant studies like this one.
    ************************************************** *

    Editorial
    An Idea Worth Throwing Back
    After a yearlong experiment with rainbow trout, researchers at the University of Missouri have announced that feeding them creatine the body-building supplement Mark McGwire made infamous can improve their fighting ability. Actually, these experiments demonstrate that trout eating a 5 percent creatine diet can swim against the current far longer than fish that aren't taking the supplement. No one has tested these creatine rainbows against an actual angler. But that has not prevented the researchers from leaping to an economic conclusion. "Fishermen probably would pay a premium for a chance of catching fish that fought longer and harder," one of them said.

    Probably. But also probably not. A trout that is being fed creatine is being fed by humans. The ones at the University of Missouri were tested in double-walled plexiglass tubes. The ones that anglers are likely to hook would be living in ponds, where their diets could be supplemented with creatine. They would be hatchery fish. And that's where the irony of a study like this becomes apparent.

    If you've ever caught a wild rainbow trout truly wild, like those in the Delaware or the Madison River you know that it doesn't need any help from creatine. A hatchery trout is a different creature entirely a wan spirit reared in concrete tanks, fed trout pellets, and dumped into a foreign world on opening day. Creatine might make a difference to these fish and the anglers who catch them, but it's the wrong difference, especially since the F.D.A. hasn't approved creatine as a food additive. Anglers don't need creatine-enhanced hatchery trout. What we need are more wild trout in more wild rivers.
    ************************************************** **
    Remember what the trout eats you eat. So what can creatine do to you and your family?

    http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/workgnc.html

    .....Creatine phosphate is actually produced and stored by the kidneys and liver. So.... If the body is receiving an external supply of creatine, it will automatically shut down all production. This will create a condition, chemical dependency, making creatine a DRUG. Anyway, you'll be dependent on it. Later down the line, you'll experience kidney and liver damage. Why? Because the by-product of creatine, creatinine, is similar to uric acid, it is a toxin. When too much builds up, it puts stress on these two organs. (this may explain why one of your readers experienced a fiery pain, and why a lot of people breakout with pimples and get diarrhea, due to the body's inability to filter so much toxin.

    So, my point is that creatine is another fad, and all of these "studies", which are actually sponsored by companies, can be doctored to show the "results" that become when supplementing. I have been on creatine for three days, and finally came to my senses; People, IT'S ALL IN YOUR HEAD, PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL. Just eat adequate protein, carbs, and fats, and you'll grow just fine. And another thing about creatinine's similarities to uric acid, it could possibly cause gout, a form of arthritis that's characterized by crystallized uric acid in the joints, causing sharp pains. Think about that the next time you load up with some grape juice....
    --------------------------------------------------
    I have proof from doctors, surgeons, and RNs who see the screwed up people in their unit from that crap and about four other professionals that have no ax to grind that creatine is harmful. It does everything that was said. I took creatine and took the recommended dose and almost had double kidney failure from that crap, so do it is not bull. Eating meat isn't the same as putting a high concentration of creatine into your body. The surgeons who knows better then the fools that take creatine said "You know how many people I operate on who take that creatine because there organs fail".
    THIS STUFF IS DANGEROUS! I could have died from it. I am proof. I stopped taking creatine and I am working out and getting just as strong as I was without taking that crap. It angers me to see people not listen and don't care just cause they want results, EVEN IF IT WILL KILL THEM. I have news, NJ is banning creatine and so will all the states eventually and I am glad cause it will save people from there own ignorance. It is not FDA APPROVED because it is dangerous and as long as it does not state that it is a steroid on the bottle it can be sold anyway. That's all I have to say and I have a lot of respect for the GNC employee for telling the truth, God bless ya.
    ------------------------------------------
    Developed by British physiologist Roger Harris, it was first used by British sprinters in the 1992 Summer Games in Barcelona. Despite its dubious benefits, there is interest: a recent Internet query for creatine monohydrate yielded more than 300 specific hits. Manufacturers' suggested dosages vary. Most recommend a 5- to 7-day loading phase during which an athlete consumes 20 to 30 grams each day, and then a maintenance dosage of 5 to 20 grams each day after that. The loading phase alone can cost up to $30, and monthly costs for the maintenance phase can be even more.

    Noakes and Coyle cite concerns about the lack of research on use of creatine monohydrate as a performance-enhancing supplement. They question not only its efficacy but also its safety. 'Huge quantities of creatine monohydrate are being consumed,' says Coyle. Obtaining similar quantities of creatine by eating meat would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, he says, and the meat would have to be raw, or close to it. The ingestion of such a large quantity of creatine monohydrate raises questions about its long-term effects on organs and muscles, specifically the cardiac muscle, and potential effects on the kidney, such as its effect on creatinine clearance. And since it's classified as a nutritional supplement and therefore subject to less stringent regulation than drugs, there is no guarantee of its purity. Despite these concerns, use of creatine monohydrate is not illegal in international competition.

    'This is a perfect opportunity for clinical research,' says Coyle. It remains to be seen whether use of creatine monohydrate for enhancing training is harmful, beneficial, or just plain useless."



    .
    ummm, maybe i'm just plain stupid or naive, but i can't understand why we would want to make rainbow trout harder to catch. ya, i think your right, a real ignorant study! lol! :D

  4. #4
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Creatine loading phase is a myth. It's unessessary. You can step into Maintenance Phase to regular usage.

    It's affects are more long-term and with regards to recovery and healing. As a competitive natural bodybuilder, it's long been a staple in my supplement bag of tricks...which is a laugh...there are no tricks...just good bases to work off from.

  5. #5
    sojustask's Avatar
    sojustask is offline The Late, Great Lady Mod - Retired User Rank
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    I take micronized creatine monohydrate and it works. It has a number of benefits for body-building and no side-affects.
    The liquid form has been known to be dangerous but many health professionals and studies agree that in powder form it gives body-builders an edge and has no proven side-affects at this date.
    Aside from myself I have friends who have also benefited from micronized creatine monohydrate, particularly Red 8 but Horley's is also a reliable brand.

    I agree that it is a fad, by this I mean there are a lot of people who think it has dramatic benefits, but people who have taken it for a long time will know it's affects aren't dramatic but they do exist. For example in the loading phase it's common to gain 2 reps on the same weight on your final set, so those taking it will go from 12-12-8 sets to 12-12-10 sets for around 2 weeks, which does provide an edge.
    Increased dosages obviously aren't recommended and probably do lead to harmful side-affects but I know from first and second hand experience that when used properly it's safe.

    There are differing opinions on dosages, and you're right that a lot of brands suggest a longer loading phase, but the good brands, specifically Red 8 which has a patented form of MCM called Creapure (American Patent 5719319 according to the label), suggest that you do the following - I'm copying straight from the label:
    Ya, Phen fen was safe once too. But the question begs to be answered. Do we really need "muscular" trout?

    Lady Mod

  6. #6
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Ya, Phen fen was safe once too. But the question begs to be answered. Do we really need "muscular" trout?

    Lady Mod
    Hehe of course not, unless trout have bodybuilding competitions that we don't know about? :p

  7. #7
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Hehe of course not, unless trout have bodybuilding competitions that we don't know about? :p
    can this stuff make me pedal my bicycle longer? i already go on 60 miles trips without taking anything. maybe i can pedal to Oklahoma with the use of creatine? :confused: :D

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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnsc2
    can this stuff make me pedal my bicycle longer? i already go on 60 miles trips without taking anything. maybe i can pedal to Oklahoma with the use of creatine? :confused: :D
    Sure it would help, I recommend Creapure (Red 8's brand of Creatine) to anyone in any sport. It's not a steroid, it won't give you superhuman abilities, but it gives you an edge you wouldn't have otherwise :)

  9. #9
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Sure it would help, I recommend Creapure (Red 8's brand of Creatine) to anyone in any sport. It's not a steroid, it won't give you superhuman abilities, but it gives you an edge you wouldn't have otherwise :)
    I recommend a nice rented car with air conditioning. Hell, live a little. :D

    LOL

  10. #10
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Hehe of course not, unless trout have bodybuilding competitions that we don't know about? :p
    OR, they are Salmon wannabes?

    ;)

  11. #11
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    I recommend a nice rented car with air conditioning. Hell, live a little. :D

    LOL
    i own one! the problem is i don't get any excersize when i drive it. my idea of fun is tearing through city to city & park to park on my mountain bike. pedaling up & flying down hills at 60mph until my hair catches on fire! give me a nice summer night & i'll ride from sunset to dawn! now THAT'S living honey! :D

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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Sure it would help, I recommend Creapure (Red 8's brand of Creatine) to anyone in any sport. It's not a steroid, it won't give you superhuman abilities, but it gives you an edge you wouldn't have otherwise :)
    o.k. i'll try this. if you suddenly don't see me posting here anymore in the near future, it just means this stuff killed me, so don't worry about it...

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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Oh you'll only be dead? Okay then that's nothing to worry about, thanks for the warning :p

    Well if you really do get the Creapure or any other kind of creatine, I recommend having it with grapejuice. Just fill up a glass halfway with grapjuice, then put the powder into it and stir and drink.
    It doesn't dissolve at all so you have to drink it right after you've stirred. If you need to have two mouthfuls, stir it after each one, otherwise half the teaspoon just ends up left at the bottom and sides of the glass :)
    Also in your loading phase when you are taking a few teaspoons a day, spread them out over the day, so you never take more than one teaspoon at a time.
    There that's all the tips I can think of at the moment

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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    i think some people lately would like to see me dead!

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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnsc2
    i think some people lately would like to see me dead!
    No way, you're the man! We all love you here. And if there are people who don't they are losers anyway so their opinions don't count

  16. #16
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    Re: An Idea Worth Throwing Back

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnsc2
    i think some people lately would like to see me dead!
    Naw, they haven't started "Hate Threads" about you yet. When they start Hate threads, you'll know you are doing a good job. I think currently the lead is held by Scambuster or he and I might be tied. LOL. I lost track. :D

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