+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 35

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,867

    Is the Bible the Word of God?

    There has been controversy for hundreds of years over the credibility of the Bible.

    Some people say the Bible is the word of God. Others say the Bible is a story written by men about God.

    Which is it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    27,203

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    it's BOTH!? yup!? :cwm2: :spin2: : :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  3. #3
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
    LogicallyYours is offline Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,352

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    So was Horus a god or myth?
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,424

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    the bible was produced by a publishing company and before that by someone else.

    What people fail to remember is the fact that there are over 250 "scrolls" that make up the collected texts in the old testiment alone. Political leaders pick and choose what ones to read.

    The new testiment was the work of the disiples and there memories.

    The book of revolations was the sole input of just one of the disiples (want to say thomas) because he thought jesus was took kind and was swaying to far from the origenal jewish rules so he put them in what he wrote without input from juses (because he was dead) or any of the other disiples because they were on the run.

    and this is why bible literalism is flawed. Each and ever writer had there own personal view of what should be said and they could insert it without review.
    Last edited by Spector567; 08-16-2010 at 03:03 AM.

  5. #5

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    There has been controversy for hundreds of years over the credibility of the Bible.

    Some people say the Bible is the word of God. Others say the Bible is a story written by men about God.

    Which is it?
    The bible is written by man, telling a story of what they think is god.
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    nc
    Posts
    236

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    The bible is composed of 66 books...approx 2/3 of which are the Jewish Canon (essentially, some modifications and a shuffling of the order) and 1/3 the added Christian Canon.

    So it is a compilation of stories written over a period of a thousand years....many of which had oral traditions longer than that.

    The Torah, the five books of Moses which the bible says was written by Moses as dictated by G!d is actually a compilation of the Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly and Deutronomist writers and is a combination of their beliefs. Hence the two versions of creation and of the flood, neither the Yahwists or the Elohists would give up their story so they both had to be included.

    Now in the midrash...a library of books that acompanies the Tanakh, it is said Moses wept when he wrote about his own death as G!d described it to him on Mt. Sinai.

    So word of G!d? No. Man's interpretation of what he thought was the word of G!d? Some of it. Man's interpretation as to what others would believe is the word of G!d so the author could gain some ***** and glory? Some of that too. Man's description of some sort of creation and explanation of natural events? Some of that. Man's interpretation of examples of history? Some of that. Political op -ed pieces similar to Gullivers Travels...the book of Jonah. Books to instill faith where everything seems to be going against you..the story of Job. We've got a little of everything some rules, some laws, some method of controllng the masses...

    And then we get to the new testament...a lot of Paul's writings and forgeries which are supposed to be Paul's...Four non eyewitness accounts written decades after the crucifixtion, all with a purpose, an agenda and a specific audience, full of discrepancies, which we call the synoptic gospels.
    First off, to answer Cnance's question...yes, IMO, it is the very work and word of God as he wanted us to have it. It all fits together too perfectly to be random writings of disturbed minds or of ancient man (or, of modern man, who thinks he is so intelligent, the bible is way beyond anything we have created to date).

    To, Iamwill, I haven't read two creation events or two flood events in the bible. I suppose you are speaking of the creation story in Gen 1, and the elaboration of that story as pertaining to man in Gen 2? One and the same story with no conflicts, and which story has not been proven false, though there be theories that go against it.

    2 flood stories? Always been the same story in the bible, where the wat3rs covered the whole earth and destroyed all air breathing creatures not on the ark.

    You have to know what the story is about before you can say there is all kinds of contradictions. The story has a definate message which is crystal clear, but you have to clear your head and read it for yourself to get that message, its the way it was designed. When you put the message into the hands of organizations of man, those organizations always distort and pervert it's message for their own gain all the while promising people paradise.

    Nearly 100% of the people never read the bible for themselves and get it's message, but listen to what organizations say the message is. So most people never know for sure, just have an organizations word for it, and they always wind up getting screwed for listening to what these organizations say the message is. Because these organizations rob them of all that they have, money, time, dignity, identity, truth, ect, again, all the while promising people paradise.

    The good thing is: the Word of God is not going anywhere. Anytime anyone is thirsty, they can drink of it's living wat3rs freely. It does not cost anyone anything, it gives and doesn't take, it glorifies God and not man.

    It is simply a book telling the story of death and life, and the process of how mankind goes from one to the other. It's where the book says we are all headed, from death to life, it's the promise of the one who created this universe, you know, the one JC called our Dad.

    And JC is the record that we all have that inheritance of eternal life, and we will all come into that inheritance when the last enemy is destroyed, which is death, which the book says takes place when the body dies, and then, our spirit will be free from that tomb of death.

    Pretty awesome message, makes our time here bearable. We're all like, just doing time... and to think, most of us love our prison cell so much that we try to extend our time here in it.
    whack it:judges:

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    The bible is not the word of God.
    Scripture is the words of Jesus, taught by Jesus and the Word of God. there are bible verses and there is scripture. Two different things.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,867

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    tig,

    You can look up any of a number of contradiction lists...there are plenty of them, not to say it still isn't my number one source for spiritual thought...but I don't lie about its orgiins.

    2 versions...look up redaction...read Gen1 and Gen2 and write down each creation story day by day...you'll see the creation events change.. same with the flood...how many animals? 2x2?

    Don't be afraid tig, its a great book, it is valuable to learn about the book and ask questions, study with those that aren't afraid the house of cards will fall down.


    That and man writing to his agenda...to his readers for his reasons.

    The words of Jesus were written down decades after his death...by folks who heard word of mouth not eyewitnesses.

    It is all man's word...G!d wrote none of it.
    I agree one hundred percent.

    I know that Logical Yours will jump on this one. I had a dream about the Old Testament. A voice said, "it happened, but not that way." However flawed it might be, it's our only record of God's intervention in human history.
    Last edited by Cnance; 09-05-2010 at 07:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    nc
    Posts
    236

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    tig,

    You can look up any of a number of contradiction lists...there are plenty of them, not to say it still isn't my number one source for spiritual thought...but I don't lie about its orgiins.
    I've read list after list of supposed contradictions, but haven't seen any that have held up. Sure, there are plenty of people who read the bible and because of lack of understanding, say things contradict, so what? There are plenty of things that people don't understand, happens all the time.

    I don't lie about the origin of the bible either. The ones that wrote it make claim that they were inspired by God when writing. From what I read, looks to be the case to me, and if you understand the mystery that the book speaks of, the mystery that Christ made plain, then the book actually makes perfect sense.

    Now, all authors give details in different ways, and reveal the message they present in different ways. Just because all information in one text is not repeated boringly over and over does not mean that the two text don't agree, it makes for more interesting reading.


    2 versions...look up redaction...read Gen1 and Gen2 and write down each creation story day by day...you'll see the creation events change.. same with the flood...how many animals? 2x2?
    Funny (are you being dishonest or are you actually that bad at reading comprehension?)... Gen 1 and 2 were written by the same author, who, btw, wrote the best selling story of all time, I don't think he forgot what he wrote in the 1st chapter and wrote a contradictory story in the 2nd chapter. Don't be afraid, iamwill, to use your head. Chapter 2 is going forward with the story from chapter 1, and mentions various details already given in chapter 1, no mentions of any day in chapter 2 but the seventh. Read a few books from time to time, they all give previous mentioned details without having to exactly spell them out as already done. Like in any book, read chapter 1 if you don't understand chapter 2.

    Same with the flood, same author, he didn't forget what he wrote just one chapter later, he tells you two animals of all kinds were taken into the ark, then in the next chapter he gives the next detail of seven of certain animals considered "clean" to be taken in. If you can't understand the basic principals of reading, you will never come to the truth.

    Don't be afraid tig, its a great book, it is valuable to learn about the book and ask questions, study with those that aren't afraid the house of cards will fall down.
    Don't worry, iamwill, I'm not afraid because I have read the book for myself, I know it's a great book, I ask questions every time I read it, and am always happy to hear people try to tear it down, it's the best way to see if something is false. And what would the "house of cards" be? With you making such silly claims that the genesis story and the ark story conflict themselves, are you sure you are not studying in this house of cards with your buddies?

    That and man writing to his agenda...to his readers for his reasons.
    I thought you said you do not lie about the origins of the bible. If you think the bible is the agenda of man then I would suggest you have no understanding of the thing. Man is what the bible warns you of, and exposes. It also frees you from man and his agendas.


    The words of Jesus were written down decades after his death...by folks who heard word of mouth not eyewitnesses.
    It is all man's word...G!d wrote none of it.
    Of course you have no way of knowing if his words were written the same day he spoke them or later. In any case, that does not mean that he did not speak them. Plus, the gospels are not the words of Jesus, they contain some of them, but also the story of Jesus.

    And we know that John was an eyewitness, and Peter, and as, lastly, was Paul, how about Jude?

    Seems most of what you just wrote was bunk.
    whack it:judges:

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Stow, OH SOL III
    Posts
    3,231

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    CNN,
    Oldest known Bible goes online
    July 6, 2009

    LONDON, England (CNN)
    -- The world's oldest known Christian Bible goes online Monday -- but the 1,600-year-old text doesn't match the one you'll find in churches today.

    Discovered in a monastery in the Sinai desert in Egypt more than 160 years ago, the handwritten Codex Sinaiticus includes two books that are not part of the official New Testament and at least seven books that are not in the Old Testament.

    The New Testament books are in a different order, and include numerous handwritten corrections -- some made as much as 800 years after the texts were written, according to scholars who worked on the project of putting the Bible online. The changes range from the alteration of a single letter to the insertion of whole sentences.

    And some familiar -- very important -- passages are missing, including verses dealing with the resurrection of Jesus, they said.

    Juan Garces, the British Library project curator, said it should be no surprise that the ancient text is not quite the same as the modern one, since the Bible has developed and changed over the years.

    "The Bible as an inspirational text has a history," he told CNN.

    "There are certainly theological questions linked to this," he said. "Everybody should be encouraged to investigate for themselves."

    That is part of the reason for putting the Bible online, said Garces, who is both a Biblical scholar and a computer scientist.

    "Scholars will want to look very closely at it, and some of the Web site functionality is specifically for them -- the ability to search the text, the ability to highlight a word, the degree of detail is particularly interesting for scholars interested in the text," he said.

    But, he added, "It's for everyone, really a wide audience, because of curiosity, because they appreciate the value of it."

    By the middle of the fourth century, when the Codex Sinaiticus was written, there was wide but not complete agreement on which books should be considered authoritative for Christian communities, according to the Web site where the Codex is posted.

    The Bible comes from the Monastery of St. Catherine in the Sinai desert, where a scholar named Constantine Tischendorf recognized its significance in 1844 -- and promptly took part of it, Garces explained.

    "Constantine Tischendorf was in search for ancient manuscripts, so he appreciated the age and value of it," Garces said.

    He took a handful of pages to Germany to publish them, then returned in 1853 and in 1859 for more. On that last trip, he took 694 pages, which ended up in St. Petersburg, Russia.

    The Soviet government decided to sell them in 1933 -- to raise money to buy tractors and other agricultural equipment.

    The British government bought the pages for £100,000, raising half the money from the public. Garces called that event one of the first fundraising campaigns in British history.

    Film footage from the time shows crowds of people turning out to see the manuscript, which was considered a national treasure, he said.

    Though the Bible has been reassembled online, in the real world it remains scattered.

    Most of it is in London. Eighty-six pages are held at the University Library in Leipzig, Germany, parts of 12 pages are held at the National Library of Russia in St. Petersburg, and 24 pages and 40 fragments remain at St. Catherine's Monastery, recovered by the monks from the northern wall of the structure in June 1975.

    The manuscript contains the Christian Bible in Greek, including the oldest complete copy of the New Testament. (A copy held at the Vatican dates from about the same period.) Older copies of individual portions of the Christian Bible exist, but not as part of a complete text.

    The Codex also includes much of the Old Testament that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians.

    That portion includes books not found in the Hebrew Bible and regarded in the Protestant tradition as apocryphal, such as 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 4 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach.

    The New Testament portion includes the Epistle of Barnabas and The Shepherd of Hermas.

    As it survives today, Codex Sinaiticus comprises just over 400 large leaves of parchment -- prepared animal skin -- each of which measures 15 inches by 13.6 inches (380 mm by 345 mm).
    You can access it at http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/.

    Some parts are not intact and so cannot be translated. I also am not sure if the entire translation is finished.
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    CNN,You can access it at http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/.

    Some parts are not intact and so cannot be translated. I also am not sure if the entire translation is finished.
    The bible basically is a book of law. "Sin" is transgression of that law.

    Israel had a contract at Sinai, failed the contract, and lost the contract.

    But the simple fact is, they couldn;t have kept the contract at any rate, since it is impossible to define laws, even God's laws, in such a way as to perfectly understand them.

    No matter how hard you try, however you try hair-splitting, you end up with undecidables, just as Godel demonstrated, you will end up with undecidables even in the most formal complex systems of mathematics.

    The reason Israel failed is essentially the same reason why in any consistent formulation of number theory of sufficient complexity, there exists undecidable propositions.

    Any system of self referencing complex thought will eventually ignore the very reality to which it was designed to respond. I srael itself developed tremendous religious diversity in its attempts to keep what it believed was God's law, resulting in the Mishna, Gemorra, and finally the Talmud which were massive records of "dictum" or precedent recording human decisions regarding God's law.

    By the time jesus allegedly walked the earth, the dilemma facing the Jews was how to know what was actually true in terms of the Torah, and what was merely human interpretations.

    Along came rabbi Hillel, who proposed his "Seven Laws" of thought by which, said Hillel, a person of dedication and discipline, could reconcile God's truth.

    Then along came Jesus and said "bullshit!" The human mind cannot develop complete, consistent understanding of god's laws as truth.

    In fact, Jesus took a direct slap at the rabbis of his day, who agreed with Hillel(since it benefitted them), and said "call no man rabbi, master, or father(Matthew 23)".

    Jesus then accused them of "shutting up the kingdom of God" to the people(Matthew 23:13), and of "taking away the key of knowledge(Luke 11:52)".

    What knowledge, what key? What mystery? Simply the right of the people to judge by the process of law for themselves, to hear the issues presented, and to render judgements based on honest understanding of lawful principles.

    Presumption of innocence(Isaiah 54;17)
    Right to face your accuser(isaiah 50:8)

    Requirement of two witnesses to determine truthfulness of an accusation(Deuteronomy 19:15)
    Protection from perjury(Deut 19:19)

    IOW, the simple right of every individual to be found innocent before the law until proven guilty.

    What was the ultimate penalty? death.

    Paul's statements, within a legal framework, were quite simple: since jesus died without being proven guilty, he innocently paid the full penalty for sin. All men who accept this responsibility, said Paul, are not under law, but under grace. All people who wish to believe in the presumption of inniocence as long as they harm no others, have the religious freedom to live in that fashion, as guaranteed by both common law and our First Amendment, and congress shall not say otherwise. That is called the right of conscience.

    What HAS occurred within so-called christianity is the control of masses by fear, saying they will go to hell if they do not belong to some human church, or believe some human authority system as a religion.

    Neither Jesus nor Paul, in that sense, were "christians".
    Trial by jury(1 Corinthians 6)
    Last edited by doojie; 09-08-2010 at 05:19 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    nc
    Posts
    236

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    The bible basically is a book of law. "Sin" is transgression of that law.
    Actually...if you read it, you find it is a book of 2 laws (one law of death, the other the law of life), and the results of both.

    Israel had a contract at Sinai, failed the contract, and lost the contract.

    But the simple fact is, they couldn;t have kept the contract at any rate, since it is impossible to define laws, even God's laws, in such a way as to perfectly understand them.

    No matter how hard you try, however you try hair-splitting, you end up with undecidables, just as Godel demonstrated, you will end up with undecidables even in the most formal complex systems of mathematics.

    The reason Israel failed is essentially the same reason why in any consistent formulation of number theory of sufficient complexity, there exists undecidable propositions.

    Any system of self referencing complex thought will eventually ignore the very reality to which it was designed to respond. I srael itself developed tremendous religious diversity in its attempts to keep what it believed was God's law, resulting in the Mishna, Gemorra, and finally the Talmud which were massive records of "dictum" or precedent recording human decisions regarding God's law.

    By the time jesus allegedly walked the earth, the dilemma facing the Jews was how to know what was actually true in terms of the Torah, and what was merely human interpretations.

    Along came rabbi Hillel, who proposed his "Seven Laws" of thought by which, said Hillel, a person of dedication and discipline, could reconcile God's truth.

    Then along came Jesus and said "bullshit!" The human mind cannot develop complete, consistent understanding of god's laws as truth.

    In fact, Jesus took a direct slap at the rabbis of his day, who agreed with Hillel(since it benefitted them), and said "call no man rabbi, master, or father(Matthew 23)".

    Jesus then accused them of "shutting up the kingdom of God" to the people(Matthew 23:13), and of "taking away the key of knowledge(Luke 11:52)".
    God gave Israel 10 commands of law to keep, then gave the interpretations of those commands. I don't think that it is because they did not understand those 10 basic commands that they failed. Paul gave a very simple (uncomplex) reason why man cannot keep the law (from Sinai, or of good and evil), it is because of sin (unbelief of God) in us that creates lust (desire) for the very thing that is forbidden.

    What knowledge, what key? What mystery? Simply the right of the people to judge by the process of law for themselves, to hear the issues presented, and to render judgements based on honest understanding of lawful principles.

    Presumption of innocence(Isaiah 54;17)
    Right to face your accuser(isaiah 50:8)

    Requirement of two witnesses to determine truthfulness of an accusation(Deuteronomy 19:15)
    Protection from perjury(Deut 19:19)

    IOW, the simple right of every individual to be found innocent before the law until proven guilty.
    Oh yes, that has worked so well for us within our courts today. It has created a utopia the world over, or at least, in the USA where we are supposedly practising those very things you say are the "key", or "mystery" that Christ brought.

    Unfortunately, the bible does not agree with you that everyone is presummed innocent until proven guilty. The bible declares us all law breakers, that there is none that doeth good, no not one, and, by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    What was the ultimate penalty? death.
    So, again, the bible does not presume anyone innocent until proven guilty since all die.

    Paul's statements, within a legal framework, were quite simple: since jesus died without being proven guilty, he innocently paid the full penalty for sin. All men who accept this responsibility, said Paul, are not under law, but under grace. All people who wish to believe in the presumption of inniocence as long as they harm no others, have the religious freedom to live in that fashion, as guaranteed by both common law and our First Amendment, and congress shall not say otherwise. That is called the right of conscience.
    So you are saying that if a person accepts the responsibility for killing JC then that person is not under law but under grace "if" he "harms" no one. Sounds to me like that person is placing himself back under the law (of good and evil) because the law is summed up with this one saying, love thy neighbor as thyself. No one is innocent of "harming" no one, so now you just put that person back in the same boat he was before.

    And....if JC paid our penalty for sin, then is God the biggest murderer of all time for killing all those who accepts JC's payment, seeing they have all died too? Sounds like double jeapardy.

    What HAS occurred within so-called christianity is the control of masses by fear, saying they will go to hell if they do not belong to some human church, or believe some human authority system as a religion.

    Neither Jesus nor Paul, in that sense, were "christians".
    Trial by jury(1 Corinthians 6)
    All the religions of good and evil use fear, as is necessary. All of their laws use fear to back those laws up, same as our's today in America. All laws of good and evil have to have fear to back them up, otherwise people would just ignore them.

    Just like there are only two laws in the bible, there are only two religions also. Law and religion are one and the same thing.

    One-The religion (or law) of good and evil, which brings death, which covers all 38,000 religions you speak of.

    And then you have the religion (or law) of life, which Christ revealed, according to the promise of eternal life by God, who cannot lie, promised before the world began.

    And this other law (that Christ revealed, the mystery, the gospel) is simple, no complexity about it, so Godel's theorem doesn't even enter the equation.

    And yes, both laws are covered abundantly in this book of the bible that claims to be the Word of God.

    You have one law, that seems complex because no man keeps it, then you have the law that Christ brought, that is so simple that no one can break it. And neither law is based on presumption of innocence until proven guilty. God is the judge, and he has to presume nothing, since he is all knowing.
    whack it:judges:

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    I'll let your process of logic speak for itself, since I can't make hide nor hair of it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    All the religions of good and evil use fear, as is necessary. All of their laws use fear to back those laws up, same as our's today in America. All laws of good and evil have to have fear to back them up, otherwise people would just ignore them.
    Of course. No argument there.

    Just like there are only two laws in the bible, there are only two religions also. Law and religion are one and the same thing.

    One-The religion (or law) of good and evil, which brings death, which covers all 38,000 religions you speak of.
    So far, I'm with you.

    And then you have the religion (or law) of life, which Christ revealed, according to the promise of eternal life by God, who cannot lie, promised before the world began.
    For which there is not one shred of proof.

    And this other law (that Christ revealed, the mystery, the gospel) is simple, no complexity about it, so Godel's theorem doesn't even enter the equation.
    Of course Godel's theorem can't enter the equation, since there is no human process by which we can organize truth in one package, thus we have 38,000 versions of religion. If the understanding of truth in such a sense were required, nobody could make it. Truth is not a "given"(John 14:17)

    And yes, both laws are covered abundantly in this book of the bible that claims to be the Word of God.
    The operative word here is "claims".

    You have one law, that seems complex because no man keeps it,
    In fact, no one CAN keep it, as Israel itself proved.
    then you have the law that Christ brought, that is so simple that no one can break it.
    Precisely, since, by biblical teaching, Jesus died to free us of the penalty of law.

    And neither law is based on presumption of innocence until proven guilty. God is the judge, and he has to presume nothing, since he is all knowing.
    Actually you would be directly contradicting that "other law" in Isaiah 54:17 and 50:8. Anyone who is brought to trial by any system of government is protectred by God and presumed innocent before men.

    Your argument that men do not keep the law because of unbelief in God, and you quote Paul, is only a partial truth, since Paul writes in Romans 11:32 that "God hath concluded them in unbelief(disobedience) that he might have mercy upon all."

    Further, you ignore Romans 11:7 which tells us of this truth that "the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

    Connecting this with Romans 11:32, above, these people are deliberately "concluded" in that blindness.

    Also, you will notice Jesus' answer in Matthew 13:11 when his disciples asked why he taught the masses n parables:
    "Because it is given unto you(disciples) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given".

    Parallels Paul's statement in Romans 11:7.

    You say the bible does not agree that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. In fact, you are completely wrong. ONLY GOD, by the bible, can presume anyone's guilt. ONLY GOD, by both OT and NT, has the right to judge any person by self knowledge.

    As Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas said, mea culpa(confession of guilt) is a plea that cannot be extracted from any man by the state. Confession of guilt lies only between man and his God.

    As Jesus pointed out in Matthew 7:1, judge not that you be not judged, since whatever judgement by which you condemn others, you also will be judged by that standard.

    IOW, no one is "above the law". Ths is also known as an aspect of "due process".

    If men can judge other men the same as God, who needs God? We are plainly told not to judge, therefore the teachings of Isaiah 54:17, Isaiah 50:8, 1 Corinthians 6, and Deuteronomy 1915, are fully consistent with the teachings of Jesus, who told us to observe that two witness rule in Matthew 18:15-18, as did Paul in 2 Corinthians 13:1.

    This same rule is also applied in common law.

    Your logic on grace and the sactrifice of Christ is absurd. Paul taught that you are not under law, but under grace. Therefore, if your life is covered by the sacrifice of Christ, then you are considered innocent by God himself. If you harm someone, however, doing intentional harm so that s/he has to bring you before the magistrate, you have two alternatives according to Jesus. You can settle it between yourselves(Matthew 5:25) or you can wait for the magistrate to do it, and you will then have to pay whatever is imposed on you as a penalty.

    WSince Jesus died for all your sins, it is fully within your rights to settle matters of disagreement aming yourselves OUTSIDE of any law. This is also listed as an option in the Twelve Tables of Roman law, BTW.

    I never said the bible, or God does not presume anyone innocent until proven guilty. I said that MAN has no right to presume guilt unless it can be proven by legitimate accusation.

    Man does not speak for God, and man cannot speak for God, since we cannot even prove there is a God. There is no such law as "blasphemy", since you can't blapspheme against that which you cannot prove.

    As to double jeopardy. Since all pay the price for sin by dying, then the "wages of sin is death(Romans 6:23): and "It is appointed to all men ONCE to die".

    Therefore, if you die, you have paid the full price for sin, period. No double jeopardy.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    Is the Bible the word of God?


    there's much debate about it, but, personally, I believe that it is, and try to live my life according to what Jesus taught us.


    And in a nutshell, that is "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul"

    and "Love my neighbor as myself"

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    204

    Re: Is the Bible the Word of God?

    The King James Bible is the word of God. Start reading it daily and before long you WILL have some faith.

Similar Threads

  1. Bug deletes last word of
    By Yawn... in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-26-2013, 09:02 PM
  2. New Word: Obamasaster
    By danrush1966 in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-30-2011, 11:06 PM
  3. One Word
    By Knight-mare in forum General Chat
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 11-24-2010, 03:59 PM
  4. ...and now a word from God
    By Lord_jag in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-23-2010, 06:51 PM
  5. For Want of a Word - the election
    By ME3 in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-05-2006, 04:06 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •