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  1. #1
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    Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    *The following would be my view, if I believed in Jesus literally being from another place, and a messenger from a creator*;

    I would believe that Jesus would not have been a true Jew.

    And here is why I believe this.

    Well, first off, of course, there is no physical evidence left over, of his existance, something that would show, beyond doubt, anything of his life. So, in the absence of that, I think it would be wreckless to put a marker down, and ever claim for sure, that 'Jesus was Jewish'.

    How can you be 100% sure, when there is no physical evidence that may support it?

    However, let us give the idea the benefit of the doubt, let us say, that due to the region and time in which he existed, he went through the whole baby cerimony thing, and was proclaimed a Jew.

    That may have made him a 'Jew', in the eyes of the community. But it is one thing to have an identity given, but another to feel that identity, in your heart. And Jesus, as the messenger of god, he would have more likely have a mind so advanced, that he would find alligning himself to any religion, abhorent.

    I think Jesus would have wanted less to with a lot of organised relgion than even a hardened atheist, tbh!

    I don't think Jesus saw himself as the King of The Jews, and the Jews most certainly did not want THIS sort of 'king'. To them, they had expected a more warrior like figure, and, rather than that, they had some carpenter, going around for a time, speaking about the importance of being nice.

    That was the LAST sort of leader they wanted, hell, these days, if Jesus posted on here, he would be called a 'hippy, dreamer, communist, etc'. I laugh, but there is truth in my words, as well.

    So, no, I believe that IF he were the son of a very *****ful being, then he would not wish to be ring fenced to any relgion, so, for example, he would not approve of Christianity and organised religion, the things done/being done, in his name. I think he would be very angry with that, as anyone would be.

    He would most likely suggest to those unfortunate enough still to belong to some form of mainstream/organised Christianity, that it has become so polluted by fascists and weirdo's, that the best thing would be to leave it be, and don't preach to anyone, do not speak of your beliefs even, unless someone asks, leave church, and, if you really believe, then practice my words, in your thoughts and deeds.

    In doing this, there would be no organised relgion, it would be a thing of the past, and those who still believed they could connect with Jesus, they could go on doing so, without them being totally stigmatized by the fact that Christianity(inc), has a rather horrible history, therefore, why be part of that, why not throw that all away, and get back to the basics of what Jesus supposedly gave most importance to.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  2. #2
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Can't claim how reliable the link/site is, but this sprang up on a key word search..


    Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew.

    During His lifetime, no persons were described as "Jews" anywhere. That fact is supported by theology, history and science. When Jesus was in Judea, it was not the "homeland" of the ancestors of those who today style themselves "Jews". Their ancestors never set a foot in Judea. They existed at that time in Asia, their "homeland", and were known as Khazars. In none of the manuscripts of the original Old or New Testament was Jesus described or referred to as a "Jew". The term originated in the late eighteenth century as an abbreviation of the term Judean and refers to a resident of Judea without regard to race or religion, just as the term "Texan" signifies a person living in Texas.

    In spite of the *****ful propaganda effort of the so-called "Jews", they have been unable to prove in recorded history that there is one record, prior to that period, of a race religion or nationality, referred to as "Jew". The religious sect in Judea, in the time of Jesus, to which self-styled "Jews" today refer to as "Jews", were known as "Pharisees". "Judaism" today and "Pharisaism" in the time of Jesus are the same.


    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  3. #3
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    And a bunch of stuff here..http://www.israelect.com/reference/W...istNotAJew.htm


    Christ Was Not A Jew

    Jesus Christ Was Not A Jew: Does this shock you? We certainly hope it does. For it is time that Christians woke up to the fact that they have been brainwashed by the Jews with the "big lie technique" to the falsehood that Christ was a Jew.

    We ask you now, to set aside all prejudice in the matter and as God states in the Bible, "Come let us reason together." (Isaiah 1:18)


    There are two ways that a person can be a Jew; racially (which means a cross between the descendants of Esau and True Israelites ‑ There is Edom [Esau is called Edom in Genesis 36:8. And Edom is in 'Modern Jewry' Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, p. 41) or religiously. Let us now see whether Christ fits either of these categories.

    Ninety‑five percent of the people that we know as Jews today, are mongrels; they are a product of the amalgamation of many races. The majority of the Jews are Asiatics, of Mongolian, stock, the descendants of the tribes of Khazars of Russia who accepted Judaism in 740 A.D.

    They are the descendants of Cain; No racial Jew is an Israelite. That's right, we repeat, NO RACIAL JEW IS AN ISRAELITE. The Bible itself identifies the Jews as the seed of Cain thereby identfying Satan as their father. (John 8:44)

    Christ said to the Jews, in the 23rd chapter of Matthew, verses 33‑35: "You serpents, you generation (race) of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore behold I send you a prophet, wise men and scribes and some of them you shall kill and crucify and some of them yuo shall scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city that upon you may come all the righteous blood that has ever been shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel" (Note that carefully).

    Here Christ is saying to the Jews that they are guilty of the murder of Abel. Jesus could not have said this unless the Jews were/are the descendants of Cain. Christ goes on to say: "Unto the blood of Zacharias, son of Brachias who you slew between the temple and the alter." It's very plan! And it's in your Bible.

    Christ said to the Jews "You are guilty of the death of righteous Abel because you rfather Cain murdered him." It is also well for you to note here that Jesus further blames these Jews for all the deaths of righteous people from the beginning of time right down to this day. This is not a statement of man but of our Redeem, our King, our Savior.

    Christ never lied and spoke only the truth; every word contained in the sixty‑six books of the Bible is the Word of Almighty God. Are the Jews then God's Chosen People as some "fogbound, lying, deceiving, Judeo‑Chrisian Clergy" would have us believe? Far from it! Rather than being God's Chosen People, they are Satan's Children! Let us turn for proof of this, to the eighth chapter of John the 42nd verse. The Jews have just said to Christ, we are God's Chosen People, God is our Father. Christ did not answer the Jews the way ninety‑nine percent of our Judeo‑Christian preachers would do today. Rather, He said in the 42nd vers, "If God were your Father you would love me for I proceeded forth and came from God. Neitherdid I come of myself, but He sent Me. Why is it that you do not understand my speech. It is because yuo cannot hear my words." (Read carefully the 44th verse) where Christ said to the Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks oa lie, he speaks of his own for he is a liar and the father of it."


    *All it's pulling up are bigots, hiding behind religion, so far*
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  4. #4
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    If you believed that jesus litterally existed and was a messenger from out creator....

    Where would you get these beiliefs other than from the books which were passed down as oral tradition from the jews that followed him?
    Some people have described it to me as more of a 'sense' within you, that you would 'know if you experienced it', so I only have their word(vague that it is), to go on..
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  5. #5
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    God came into the world as Jesus. As Jesus, He proclaimed Himself to be Jewish. Obviously, you left out the Old Testament where the Lord God proclaimed His relationship to Israel.

    Atheist run into trouble when they ignore the Bible.

    If you want to reinvent the wheel, that's your privilege. However, there is no credibility to your idea that Jesus may not have been Jewish. That's an absurd idea bordering on stupidity.

  6. #6
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    an absurd idea bordering on stupidity.

    ...and you see no irony, here, no?

    :spin2:
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  7. #7
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    I believe in the gospel of Thomas, one of many books cleverly left out of the bible, as the church found them to be....well....anti church, Jesus said......
    Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there.

    Of course, what he's saying is that you don't need to go to church. You don't need religion. You don't need to follow the rules of man. Just believe in him, wherever you are and with everything you do.

    This leads me to believe that he had no religion, or at least, followed none.

    Cheers, Pokey

  8. #8
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol Slow Poke View Post
    Of course, what he's saying is that you don't need to go to church. You don't need religion. You don't need to follow the rules of man

    Thanks.

    Precisely what I was saying.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  9. #9
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Interesting topic, Steve.
    Here's my 2-cents worth. He was Jewish and the Jews certainly did not like Him. In fact, they still to this day do not consider Him their messiah. So, yeah, they weren't and still aren't down with Him.
    JC never called faith in Him Christianity. But to truly follow Him is Christianity and Christianity simply means Christ-like.
    If you follow Him and believe the tenants of Christianity as set by Him, but do not go to a specific church, that's cool. You are certainly still a Christian/Christ-like.
    BUT remember this-Jesus does not want His followers to keep their faith in Him a secret. No, indeed, we are to spread the Good News and proclaim our faith in Him. He warns us that we will be persecuted and mocked for our faith in Him, but we will be rewarded for our outward displays of our deep faith in Him to be who He claims to be:The Lord.
    xo
    Click both daily for an easy & FREE way to help care for the needy:
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  10. #10
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    Some people have described it to me as more of a 'sense' within you, that you would 'know if you experienced it', so I only have their word(vague that it is), to go on..
    you have experienced it no doubt at sometime!? you just blew it off or renamed it!? it's there all the time we just dont notice until it increases significantly!? usually due to special circumstances or special people!? church is supposed to be school/practice of making it a permanent experience!? it's like anything else we are attracted to!? we have to recognize it, want more of it, and persue it!? but our sensual habits are so strong we never think it's real/has value/can be lost until we experience the lack of it!? :freak3: :spin2: : :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  11. #11
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    From what I've read from both of you, neither really cares...

    Both just do it to stir the soup...
    Or...can it possibly be.....maybe we are just interested in exploring the subject, and pushing boundaries, a little.

    Nah.

    Of course not.

    Because you know us better than we know ourselves.


    *rolls eyes*
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  12. #12
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Yeah Well Fine Then

    Or...can it possibly be.....maybe we are just interested in exploring the subject, and pushing boundaries, a little.

    Nah.

    Of course not.

    Because you know us better than we know ourselves.
    How do you push boundaries? Isn't this an historical question? Since we have very little documentation for Jesus, we have to take what we have. That includes the gospels and very few historical references.

    Where do you suggest we look?

    Aren't you just doing your usually slam bang act against Christians?

  13. #13
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    *Sigh*

    Here we go.

    Again.

    :rotz:
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  14. #14
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    I call it stirring the soup, you call it pushing boundaries...

    same sentiment.
    Huge difference.

    One implies a sort of agitation, a negative slant.

    The other is using our imagination and natural curiousity to ask questions.

    Like I say - HUGE difference.

    *nods*
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  15. #15
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    Interesting topic, Steve.
    Here's my 2-cents worth. He was Jewish and the Jews certainly did not like Him. In fact, they still to this day do not consider Him their messiah. So, yeah, they weren't and still aren't down with Him.
    JC never called faith in Him Christianity. But to truly follow Him is Christianity and Christianity simply means Christ-like.
    If you follow Him and believe the tenants of Christianity as set by Him, but do not go to a specific church, that's cool. You are certainly still a Christian/Christ-like.
    BUT remember this-Jesus does not want His followers to keep their faith in Him a secret. No, indeed, we are to spread the Good News and proclaim our faith in Him. He warns us that we will be persecuted and mocked for our faith in Him, but we will be rewarded for our outward displays of our deep faith in Him to be who He claims to be:The Lord.
    xo
    You are 100% correct and mr. Yeah Well Fine Then I guess that makes you the one jesus was talking about. I will continue my faith in god, jesus, and the holly spirit and you can continue to make my reward even better thanks :)

    I have to say though funny how people with no faith down god but when they are if front of him at there lifes end....they find new reasons to dislike him. pretty sad!

  16. #16
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    Re: Jesus Beyond Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    If you were a christian, or a jew, I could understand your interest.

    you have no boundaries, how can you push them? Whose boundaries? Not yours.

    Therefor stirfing the soup is much more accurte...you are going in some elses pot and pissing in it intentionally.
    Narrow thinking, Wilster, v narrow.

    Now you are saying that in order to have an interest in religion, as I am here, you must first be a Jew or a Christian.

    Nonsense.

    1) It is palpable nonsense, because, were that so, the only people 'qualified' to express such an interest would have to logically be existing Christians and Jews. This would, of course mean that the door would be firmly shut on anyone embracing Jesus in their life, for, to get to that point, one would presumably have to take the path of questioning.

    2) It is also palpable nonsense, because, were it so, then to show an interest in any part of history, political or otherwise, one would 'have' to actually be part of it. You know that is not true.

    But, fill your boots, keep putting words in my mouth, deciding what I should think, what I am 'really' saying.
    :rotz:
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

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