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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2010

    Global Warming Science thread


    First, let me tell you my education level, or what journalists refer to as "bias." Apparently, having an education in science is now a bias. Moving on... I have 20+ years in robotics education, and a BA in computer science. Yeah, a BA, I went to a weird college. We can't all afford Harvard. A surprising amount of science comes from very small and poor colleges. Science can be anywhere. Right now I'm working on a double Masters in Programming and Physics through an online university, and I've recently completed a Real Estate license. I'm also a certified Water Treatment Plant Operator for California - which is equal to an AS degree in Environmental Science. <-- There's the bias, if you're looking for it.

    POINT: I'm a working man, not an ivory tower purist.

    First of all, Global Warming is a real phenomenon. The argument is over whether or not MANKIND is causing it or increasing it "at a rate that is dangerous."

    Any astronomy student can tell you that the Earths orbit wobbles, and that is one of the causes of climate shift, or Ice Ages. The changes are so regular that we can predict them on computer models.

    Also, the Solar output is a variable, and that's part of what's causing confusion right now. Increased solar energy will prevent an Ice Age from being fully realized, or from covering most of the Earth, so we think. The cycle we are in now is heading towards the next Ice Age. What, is this not Global Warming? ... We'll get to that. Patience.

    NON SCIENTISTS, and this is probably most of you, please realize that you're arguing with Scientists. We do not lie. We do not fake it. We have no ownership by corporations or government. We do Science for the sake of Science. There is no reward for scientists to fake or lie about the environment. Really. At this point, even though I'm near bankruptcy, I still would not lie to prevent it. My reputation means quite a lot to me as a physicist.

    Corporations MAY, and probably do, have an interest in lying to you or misusing scientific data. That's not my problem. It's also not "me" or any other university scientist. Defense industry scientists, DoD, NASA, NOAA, and other government scientists also will not lie - not even to keep their jobs. We can and do quit and find other work. Why? It's like saying "You're a car mechanic, but from now on you'll never touch another car." If you love cars, you'll quit and go get a job where you can do some work.

    To my knowledge, there is very little money to be made in lying about the environment. At best, corporations and nations may delay the inevitable costs, but only by increasing those costs. Look at the oil catastrophe off of Texas as an example of a cost being delayed, and what it will cost NOW. The few million they saved on safety equipment has already cost BP billions.

    THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. Science is raising the question of environment cost TO humans based upon our technology. There is no argument about whether or not the Earth is getting warmer. Of course it is! Unless you're a flat-Earther, it's hard to ignore evidence this widespread.

    What is in question is: What can we do to reduce exposure to future catastrophes? What can we do to minimize our contribution to pollution and accelerated warming? How can we proceed to grow as a society AND reduce our footprint in nature? NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE BAD.

    The controversy is stirred up by rich folks who don't want to pay taxes. Pure and simple.


    Whenever there is a crazy public outrage against something, and you discover that upon examination - nothing there is natively dangerous, look at the money. It's greed.

    Iraq WMD!!!! Greed. Halliburton, Bushco, et al. Billions in defense spending. Restructuring of USA global security operations. Extended power, indefinitely, to a very small group of people.

    Ground Zero! 9-11. Taliban! More of the same. Afghanistan never attacked America. Greed. Power. Politics.

    Global Warming Conspiracy! Wingnuts who fear taxes based upon science. They know that scientists don't fall for their bullsheep.

    Illegal Aliens!!! Fear and woe!!! America is founded by immigrants, populated by immigrants, and that's what made America great. Fear of more of that greatness is one thing: STUPIDITY.

    It's all the same people. Fear Uncertainty and Doubt are used to control you. Stop listening to corporate media and pay attention to the only neutral players in America: Scientists.

    It's all about the BENJAMINS.

    Personally, I don't mind paying an extra ten cents per gallon of fuel if it would prevent world hunger. Another ten cents to stop crime or end homelessness worldwide. What a trivial cost, and what a great benefit. Most of those taxes are USED to DO THINGS.

    in 1930, 55% of America DID NOT HAVE ELECTRICITY.

    It is TAXES that made the electrical grid a possibility. It's "big government" that BUILT the grid, provides Social Security and Medicaid, and built the interstate freeway system. Not all government is BAD. What we need is to listen more to science, and ignore rich people who lament about taxes and government.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009

    Re: Global Warming Science thread

    Oh, this'll go down well.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005

    Re: Global Warming Science thread

    Good post, but I think it would have been better if you stopped here:

    What is in question is: What can we do to reduce exposure to future catastrophes? What can we do to minimize our contribution to pollution and accelerated warming? How can we proceed to grow as a society AND reduce our footprint in nature? NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE BAD.
    After that you start doing exactly what the deniers want you to do, which is conflating science and politics. If you don't get into a rant about greed/capitalism/conservatism your argument will be far more persuasive. Let the facts speak for themselves.

    Oh, and as a fellow physicist, let me say welcome to the board :rasta:.

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