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  1. #1
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    Psychological impact of no god proof?

    I touched about this in another thread, but it was off topic there, so felt I would bring it here.

    It is well known to all that I do not subscribe to any god or religion, nor the supernatural, up to and including demons and angels.

    Okay, got that out of the way.:

    Oddly enough, I have no special interest in proving these things as false. Not my burden, Gov, the duty there always lies with the one making the positive claim, if you see what I mean.

    And, of course, using all means of logic, it is impossible to totally disprove such claims, anyway.

    However, let us say that we could indeed expose a personal god as little more than man's last great superstition.

    Yes, in time, I believe we as beings would advance because of this, however, at the same time, were such proof possible, it would need to be used responsibly.

    Truth is all, however, we would have to keep in mind that entire cultures and nations are populated by those who, for them, their belief is everything, therefore, if you were to suddenly tear this away from them, then there would be a v grave risk of social implosion, on a mass scale.

    Quite how we could find the correct method to tell them, and, over what time scale, well, that is another matter, but it is worth thinking about, imo.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  2. #2
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    I am not sure this belongs in the religious thread either.

  3. #3
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by terry05_99 View Post
    I am not sure this belongs in the religious thread either.
    Either? No one else has said that, so what's with the 'either'.

    Besides, what section could this be in, other than the religous section, Terry - :judges:

    And, some discussion on content would have been nice.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  4. #4
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Believing in God in the US has some political perks to screw with people's minds.

    Fotr example, since all states recognize the sovereignty of God, and since we find biblical evidence that God is on the side of the accused, we make the courts prove to God that we should be punished. How do you suppose they'd do that?

    If you don't swear or affirm as the accused, they have no authority to convict.

    BTW, I just looked at some constitutional history by St George Tucker, a biggie right up there close to Blackstone on common law.

    Tucker writes that no department of the federal govertnment was ever given general jurisdiction over common law, Notice that both the 5th and 14th amendment say that no person shall be deeprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

    Neither the federal government nor the state are permitted to do so.

    But due process of law is clearly defined as common law, over which no branch of government, including the judiciary, has jurisdiction.

    The authority source of common law, according to Blackstone, is God, nature, and reason.

    I like God for legal purposes.

  5. #5
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Hi Doojie, do you agree with me though, that even if I could DISprove god, that I (or whoever), would need to filter that info to believers responsibly, otherwise the benefits of the truth that I had just given them would be offset by the possible psychological damage it might do, were I to just rush the information all out to them, at once?
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  6. #6
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    Hi Doojie, do you agree with me though, that even if I could DISprove god, that I (or whoever), would need to filter that info to believers responsibly, otherwise the benefits of the truth that I had just given them would be offset by the possible psychological damage it might do, were I to just rush the information all out to them, at once?
    Why is that Steve? You really concerned about anyone that believes in God? It seems like I remeber you saying that anyone who believes in God is crazy anyways, so why are you so concerned with there psychological well being now?

  7. #7
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Terry, who has pissed on yer oats, tonight?

    Please try to enter into discussion, rather than be personal.

    I am in a good mood, having had a nice day with my daughter, and g/daughter.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  8. #8
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    Terry, who has pissed on yer oats, tonight?

    Please try to enter into discussion, rather than be personal.

    I am in a good mood, having had a nice day with my daughter, and g/daughter.
    Iam glad your having a nice day, as Iam. My question is sincere, based on previous conversations I want to know what brought about your concern for the christians all of a sudden?

  9. #9
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by terry05_99 View Post
    Iam glad your having a nice day, as Iam. My question is sincere, based on previous conversations I want to know what brought about your concern for the christians all of a sudden?
    I didn't mention Christians, Terry, you did.

    I am speaking at large, as to how the realisation that there is no gods, no afterlife, no supernatural, how that might impact on nations which are composed of 'believers', be that in Islam, or Voodoo.

    Do you have anything to say on that?
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  10. #10
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    I didn't mention Christians, Terry, you did.

    I am speaking at large, as to how the realisation that there is no gods, no afterlife, no supernatural, how that might impact on nations which are composed of 'believers', be that in Islam, or Voodoo.

    Do you have anything to say on that?
    ok, let me re-state it:

    My question is sincere, based on previous conversations I want to know what brought about your concern for those that believe in God all of a sudden?

  11. #11
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by terry05_99 View Post
    ok, let me re-state it:

    My question is sincere, based on previous conversations I want to know what brought about your concern for those that believe in God all of a sudden?

    Perhaps you are taking my 'concern' on too intimate a level?

    I am merely pointing out the potential hazards that would follow by too speedily taking someone's belief system away, by producing evidence that it is all make believe.

    Thus, I have no concern, as you put it, for god or religion, of whatever form, but I do have concern for those who believe in that sort of thing, as I have concern for all of mankind.

    Now.

    Can you please discuss the subject matter?

    Thanks.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  12. #12
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    Perhaps you are taking my 'concern' on too intimate a level?

    I am merely pointing out the potential hazards that would follow by too speedily taking someone's belief system away, by producing evidence that it is all make believe.

    Thus, I have no concern, as you put it, for god or religion, of whatever form, but I do have concern for those who believe in that sort of thing, as I have concern for all of mankind.

    Now.

    Can you please discuss the subject matter?

    Thanks.
    No, thats not what I said. I said I wondered why your so concerned about those that believe in God, when you have said before they are dilusional, crazy, etc

    If I thought the question was sincere, I would be happy to discuss it but I don't think you really care about the well being of "those that believe" Steve

  13. #13
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Terry, tbh fella, I am not going to ping this ball back and forth with you, all night, and all through this thread.:rotz:

    I do not have concern for people (or lack it), because they believe in some god or fairy, my mother is a Catholic, I don't believe in their doctrine, yet I care about her. What's your point?

    So, now, will you please either discuss the content of the thread, and the proposition, or move on, and join another discussion?

    Thank you
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  14. #14
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    I touched about this in another thread, but it was off topic there, so felt I would bring it here.

    It is well known to all that I do not subscribe to any god or religion, nor the supernatural, up to and including demons and angels.

    Okay, got that out of the way.:

    Oddly enough, I have no special interest in proving these things as false. Not my burden, Gov, the duty there always lies with the one making the positive claim, if you see what I mean.

    And, of course, using all means of logic, it is impossible to totally disprove such claims, anyway.

    However, let us say that we could indeed expose a personal god as little more than man's last great superstition.

    Yes, in time, I believe we as beings would advance because of this, however, at the same time, were such proof possible, it would need to be used responsibly.

    Truth is all, however, we would have to keep in mind that entire cultures and nations are populated by those who, for them, their belief is everything, therefore, if you were to suddenly tear this away from them, then there would be a v grave risk of social implosion, on a mass scale.

    Quite how we could find the correct method to tell them, and, over what time scale, well, that is another matter, but it is worth thinking about, imo.
    I don't see it as an issue at all. In fact it is similar to the 'If there were no believers' thread. Though, instead of there never being any believers you're coming up with 'what if it could be proven God did not exist'.
    The thing is... there are people who adamantly do not believe in God. Some, it wouldn't surprise me, to the point that they believe they can prove it.
    With that in mind... even IF you had concrete, proof-positive and irrefutable evidence locking your premise firmly into the realm of absolute fact... the "true believer" would do what they are already doing. Not believing you... producing no psychological repercussions or damage to their emotional well-being.

    In other words... it would be no different than it already is.


    .

  15. #15
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM View Post
    In other words... it would be no different than it already is..

    In other words, you effectively appear to be saying that those who presently believe, would go on doing so, even in light of this new evidence that would show their belief to be based on falsehood?

    I believe that you are both right and wrong - :spin2:

    Confused? Let me explain. I think that you are right, even in light of new evidence, I do not believe that religionists would suddenly shut up shop, shrug, and stop believing, the following morning!

    On the contrary, faced with the new evidence, ALL the main religions would try harder than ever to ensure that their followers kept on believing, using whatever methods they needed to use (lying, if need be).

    And, since these religions and institutions have always yielded great social power, you would indeed go on seeing those that wanted to believe, go on believing.

    However;

    I also think that in time, and it could be over a long passage of time, future generations would be born who, for them, the new truth and evidence did matter, and, gradually, you would see numbers falling, in all religions. As I say, this could take a long time, perhaps a century.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  16. #16
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    Re: Psychological impact of no god proof?

    We're, basically, in agreement. I wouldn't look to see any major shift in the behaviors of the Western cultures... European or North American. The real difficulty could possibly come from oppressive Theocratic governments. There could be a real possibility of increased violence or "justice against blasphemers"... to put it more accurately... for the state religion to maintain it's power.
    Western cultures might ramp-up their evangelical efforts, but that would be the extend of their efforts.

    .

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