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Thread: A math problem.

  1. #1
    Lord_jag's Avatar
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    A math problem.

    Lets treat the US energy needs as a math problem. For this, we need to make some assumptions -

    We know the US didn't go to the middle east to find WMD's and most people believe it was for oil. What does that oil cost?

    Military spending to get that oil next year - 1.0 - 1.2 trillion dollars
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States

    US total petroleum energy use - 40 quadrillion BTU of energy (2007 numbers)
    http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/solar.r...ds/table1.html

    Everything you would need to make a grid-tied system is available for $2/watt, fully installed. ($2000/KW)
    http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_pa...rid_tie_system


    So... now we have some figures, lets do a little elementary school maths.

    40 quadrillion BTU is 11,800,000,000,000 kwh of energy. (1.18e13 kwh)

    We'll take 1/2 of the military budget and buy solar panels to produce energy instead.

    So, 500 billion dollars. to buy solar panels.

    That will buy, and installed peak capacity of 250 million KW of power, whenever the sun shines. So, for 10 hours/day on average, 365 days/year, you get 250 million KW of power.

    That is 365*10*250,000,000 KW. or 912 billion KWh or more than 7% of all petroleum needs.


    Just for one half of the money spend on killing other people we could have 7% of all the energy we will need for petroleum. If we did that for 15 years, we would never need another drop of petrol. And... think of the jobs. All those jobs would be paid for by USD by the US government. Your taxes wouldn't go up. Your soldiers wouldn't die overseas, they would have respectable jobs in a plant making solar panels.


    And... that is at the current non-massproduced price of our current technology of solar panels. Just guess what the volume discount would be if the US army decided it was going to make the panels themselves. Instead of buying tanks they buy raw materials. Instead of paying soldiers they pay plant workers who come home to their families at night.

    Remember... This is just for replacing our addiction to petrol. All other energy uses are not considered.

    What do you think?





    Oh and by the way, this means noone in America ever pays for recharging their electric car by the way. The entire cost of energy creation is paid for with that 500 billion, so there's nothing to charge the users.

    If you charged the users 7 cents per KWh, (a reasonable rate for electricity today) you get another 63 billion dollars to reinvest.
    Last edited by Lord_jag; 04-23-2010 at 05:48 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: A math problem.

    iraq was invaded to remove saddam, a dictator that had caused the death or millions in his wars with iraq. one day he claimed to have secret weapons and the next day claimed not. he didn't allow the weapons inspectors in until the troops were already lined uo for the invasion. he was using the oil for food program to buy more weapons, building palaces for himself while starving children and claiming USA was to blame. lefties pretended it was a war for oil because they needed to tell big lies to get political power again.

    we didn't take iraq's oil. unlikely any of it comes to the USA. oil is sold on the open market to the highest bidder. iraq gets paid for the oil, not USA. maintaining useless sanctions against iraq, year after year, disrupted the flow of oil to the world at free market prices. to end sanctions we had to end saddam's government.

    stop repeating lies. you are responsible for the unpleasant consequences of the lies you tell.

    one of those unpleasant consequences is a bankrupt government that keeps on paying people to not work. there is lots of work that needs to be done everywhere, but this government wants people dependant on them for food and healthcare. a kind of slavery.

  3. #3
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    Re: A math problem.

    solar panel don't produce any usefull amount of energy. why don't the new electric cars have solar panels? because it take miles of solar panels to make enough energy to run one car. yeah, do the math.

  4. #4
    Lord_jag's Avatar
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    Re: A math problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    solar panel don't produce any usefull amount of energy.
    Are you a fricken moron? Where do you get off saying such BS?
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    why don't the new electric cars have solar panels?
    Cause that's totally not practical. Cars need more energy than you get get instantaneously from solar panels. One household roof sized solar panel makes more than enough power for the car and all the household appliances.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    because it take miles of solar panels to make enough energy to run one car. yeah, do the math.
    To what end? You're already not listening.. You do the math and learn something.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    iraq was invaded to remove saddam,
    No it wasn't
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    a dictator that had caused the death or millions in his wars with iraq.
    and installed by the US government.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    one day he claimed to have secret weapons and the next day claimed not.
    He never claimed to have WMD's he just didn't want the US controlling his country anymore so stopped the inspections.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    he didn't allow the weapons inspectors in until the troops were already lined uo for the invasion.
    And rightly so. The US need to be in iraq less, not more. But fine... Line the boarders of any country with WMD's and marines and they'll submit to being inspected.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    he was using the oil for food program to buy more weapons, building palaces for himself while starving children and claiming USA was to blame.
    Sure.. nto the best dictator, but remember USA put him there. He used to be a great friend to the USA when he was acting like a puppet.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    lefties pretended it was a war for oil because they needed to tell big lies to get political power again.
    lefties claimed it was a war for oil because it was. You dont think it strange that the oil production went up dramatically right after US occupied Iraq?
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    we didn't take iraq's oil.
    Well you took it and certainly didn't pay fair market value for it... That's called stealing isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    unlikely any of it comes to the USA. oil is sold on the open market to the highest bidder. iraq gets paid for the oil, not USA.
    Not at fair market value, and they have to be paid in USD by any country that buys it. What's that going to do for them?
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    maintaining useless sanctions against iraq, year after year, disrupted the flow of oil to the world at free market prices. to end sanctions we had to end saddam's government.
    If we weren't addicted to oil stolen from other countries then that wouldn't matter would it?
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    stop repeating lies. you are responsible for the unpleasant consequences of the lies you tell.
    Consequences? Like clean air, free energy for all and an end to illegal wars?

    Wow. I'll take it. Thank you. Somehow I think that needs to be a group effort. I can't take all the credit.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    one of those unpleasant consequences is a bankrupt government that keeps on paying people to not work.
    So making solar panels is not working? Huh. So exactly what IS working then? Sitting at a desk in wall street and crushing another country financially?
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    there is lots of work that needs to be done everywhere, but this government wants people dependant on them for food and healthcare. a kind of slavery.
    No... this government wants people dependent on oil. And for shame if they want you to be healthy too??!?!

    What did you condemn Saddam for? Not caring for it's poor? And now you want the same? Interesting. You want the USA to be a dictatorship run by Saddam?



    I guess the good thing is that you don't see any problems with the math above. 7 % of the petrol US uses could be generated from half the US budget for illegal wars.
    Last edited by Lord_jag; 04-23-2010 at 08:46 AM.
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  5. #5
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    Re: A math problem.

    a roof full of solar panels will cost more than a car. the batteries to run the car cost more than a car. if it was economical, we would already be doing it. wishful thinking is not involved in math or science, or rather, shouldn't be.

    now, if you let democrats raise gas taxes so the tax is more than the product costs, and in the meantime, they subsidize chinese factories with your money, maybe that will work.

    when your job moves to china you won't won't need to drive to work anymore, anyway.

    if saddam was appointed by the pope then jesse jackson, he still needed to be removed. the millions of iraqis freed from oppression is the biggest human rights advance since WWII.

    oil production from iraq went up after saddam was removed because there is no longer any need for sanctions, oil for food, etc. iraq is not a threat to anybody. it was impossible to lift sanctions without removing saddam beacause all payments to iraq were payments to saddam, just as all payments to cuba are payments to castro and all payments to venezuela are payments to chavez.

    all payments to USA firms are not payments to Obama. not yet. but i am worried that our brainwashed, drug culture youth, won't realize the difference before it's too late.

    since you got this figured out, you can get a grant/loan from Obama like al gore did and help build this new electric car ifrastructure? hurry. if we keep going the way we are, dollars will be worthless soon.

    you should put a little windmill on your electric car next to the solar panel. every little bit helps.

    Last edited by mumbles; 04-23-2010 at 10:20 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: A math problem.

    I hate to say it but America is doomed to wallow in it's own stupidity about for at least the next 2 decades.

    After that people like mumbles will be dead and others who managed to update there knowledge over the past 3 decades will have the voting majority.

    Mumbles do the world a favour and use google to search up information. We have constantly provided links to factual information that counters your arguments. Intern you provide opinion articles and accusations about Oboma. News flash. These facts were valid over 5 years ago, Oboma doesn't matter to anyone but you.

    Seriously mumbles. A grade 7 student has a higher science and math literacy than you do.

  7. #7
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    Re: A math problem.

    o, don't let me or the facts deter you. start hammering solar panels to your roof. take some pictures of your work and post it here along with your records of the cost. order an electric car and hope you get it someday then charge it up with your solar panels. as i said on the other thread, my electric bill last month was $60 and will be lower this month because i am not heating, cooling, or trying to charge two thousand pounds of batteries. i don't own a roof, the blue sky is my ceiling, and my carpets are made of sand.


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    Re: A math problem.

    here's some to get you started.

    http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...2&marketID=177


    This kit includes ten 123 Watt solar panels, one 2500 Watt Pure Sine Wave inverter, and two 50 Amp charge controllers. The solar panels are easy for anyone to install, maintenance free, and completely weatherproof.

    $8,550.00/EA-Each
    Free Shipping

  9. #9
    Lord_jag's Avatar
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    Re: A math problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    wait... you want to buy your solar panels at the home depot?

    REally? REALLY?!?!?

    Next you tell me computers are too expensive cause you looked at future shop. One of my links show a 7200 watt system for $13000.
    Last edited by Lord_jag; 04-23-2010 at 06:22 PM.
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  10. #10
    Lord_jag's Avatar
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    Re: A math problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    a roof full of solar panels will cost more than a car. the batteries to run the car cost more than a car. if it was economical, we would already be doing it. wishful thinking is not involved in math or science, or rather, shouldn't be.

    now, if you let democrats raise gas taxes so the tax is more than the product costs, and in the meantime, they subsidize chinese factories with your money, maybe that will work.

    when your job moves to china you won't won't need to drive to work anymore, anyway.

    if saddam was appointed by the pope then jesse jackson, he still needed to be removed. the millions of iraqis freed from oppression is the biggest human rights advance since WWII.

    oil production from iraq went up after saddam was removed because there is no longer any need for sanctions, oil for food, etc. iraq is not a threat to anybody. it was impossible to lift sanctions without removing saddam beacause all payments to iraq were payments to saddam, just as all payments to cuba are payments to castro and all payments to venezuela are payments to chavez.

    all payments to USA firms are not payments to Obama. not yet. but i am worried that our brainwashed, drug culture youth, won't realize the difference before it's too late.

    since you got this figured out, you can get a grant/loan from Obama like al gore did and help build this new electric car ifrastructure? hurry. if we keep going the way we are, dollars will be worthless soon.

    you should put a little windmill on your electric car next to the solar panel. every little bit helps.
    No... if the government hadn't taxed us to death paying for it's illegal wars, we would all have the money in our pockets to pay for the batteries and solar panels ourselves. You think gasoline is free? Guess how many dollars worth of gas it takes to drive your clunker to 100,000 miles at 10 miles to the gallon and $2/gallon?

    Guess what? You could buy the car, and the solar array to recharge that car for less, not to mention way less maintenance...

    But your right... don't let facts confuse the ideas here...

    What jobs are moving to China? The jobs of making solar panels? Who considered doing that? I'm talking about the military building them here in the USA and coming home to their families instead of getting shot at in an illegal war.... You know... Doing something good for the country instead of just killing people so you can steal their resources???
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  11. #11
    Lord_jag's Avatar
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    Re: A math problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    o, don't let me or the facts deter you. start hammering solar panels to your roof. take some pictures of your work and post it here along with your records of the cost. order an electric car and hope you get it someday then charge it up with your solar panels. as i said on the other thread, my electric bill last month was $60 and will be lower this month because i am not heating, cooling, or trying to charge two thousand pounds of batteries. i don't own a roof, the blue sky is my ceiling, and my carpets are made of sand.

    Um... WFT is talking about batteries? Especially 2000 lbs of batteries?

    and where exactly have I suggested in this thread that you should pay for any of this?

    Hey you want to be homeless that's your desire. You can be a bum and live on the beach. Plenty do.. I imagine it's quite nice in the summer under the blue sky. Eating might be a bit of a biatch though.... and in the winter or rainy season you may have some troubles... I like to have a roof over my head and I'd like to use the free energy that hits it every day...

    BTW did have you ever wondered what it costs to put a ROOF on a house? Compare that to the solar panels
    Last edited by Lord_jag; 04-23-2010 at 06:30 PM.
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  12. #12
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    Re: A math problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I hate to say it but America is doomed to wallow in it's own stupidity about for at least the next 2 decades.

    After that people like mumbles will be dead and others who managed to update there knowledge over the past 3 decades will have the voting majority.

    Mumbles do the world a favour and use google to search up information. We have constantly provided links to factual information that counters your arguments. Intern you provide opinion articles and accusations about Oboma. News flash. These facts were valid over 5 years ago, Oboma doesn't matter to anyone but you.

    Seriously mumbles. A grade 7 student has a higher science and math literacy than you do.
    meh... i don't worry about it... He's already said how he's broke and now he's telling us how he's a homeless bum. I think he'll be a little more quiet when he's living on the beach and it starts to rain... Laptops don't like rain... And good luck plugging it in, if it doesn't get stolen first...

    Too bad you don't like health care... i guess He'll be crawling in the grave within a year... a homeless bum that won't take healthcare...
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  13. #13
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    Re: A math problem.

    i never had $13,000. already said i don't have a roof or any property. i pay rent. rent goes up with inflation and so does my pay. in real dollars, life always cost me the same.

    from the time i started working i guess inflation has multiplied most prices by 10. so, i paid 30 cents for gas then and pay almost $3 now. it is the dollars that were devalued by the politicians promising to give people something for nothing that changed, not the gas or gold.

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/solar-cell5.htm

    there ya go - step by step. when you get it all working let us know.

  14. #14
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    Re: A math problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    i never had $13,000.
    never asked you to. Not sure where you got the idea that i asked you to pay for it. The govt will pay for it with the money they are wasting on illegal wars.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    already said i don't have a roof or any property. i pay rent. rent goes up with inflation and so does my pay. in real dollars, life always cost me the same.
    Never asked your landlord to pay for it either... free from the govt. in exchange for putting soldiers to useful work instead of running illegal wars. Infact, your rent would go down seeing as you no longer have to pay for electricity and your landlord doesn't have to pay for a roof.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    from the time i started working i guess inflation has multiplied most prices by 10. so, i paid 30 cents for gas then and pay almost $3 now.
    guess what gas would cost if your government wasn't stealing it from other countries? I'd imagine something close to the UK(far closer to the source and paying about 12$/gallon)
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    it is the dollars that were devalued by the politicians promising to give people something for nothing that changed, not the gas or gold.
    So.. you think it's just as easy to refine fuel now as it was when you could take it right out of your own backyard?

    You think it's free to move millions of barrels of oil across oceans?
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    http://science.howstuffworks.com/solar-cell5.htm

    there ya go - step by step. when you get it all working let us know.
    Uh huh... did you read it? Step by step by people that have gotten it to work...

    Thanks for the testimonials from people who have it working...
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

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    Re: A math problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    i never had $13,000. already said i don't have a roof or any property. i pay rent. rent goes up with inflation and so does my pay. in real dollars, life always cost me the same.

    from the time i started working i guess inflation has multiplied most prices by 10. so, i paid 30 cents for gas then and pay almost $3 now. it is the dollars that were devalued by the politicians promising to give people something for nothing that changed, not the gas or gold.

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/solar-cell5.htm

    there ya go - step by step. when you get it all working let us know.
    With respect mumbles maybe you'd get further if you less short sighted and selfish.

    I'm sorry your life didn't end up the way you wanted it too. However, I suspect at some point you had some control of that. Don't be trying to hinder everyone else just because you didn't win the lottery.

    Especially considering the same people you dismiss are the same people who want to make sure that future generations don't have the same problems you had.

    Lexx knows it works and how it works and is trying to be or is an entrepreneur. If you supported people like him maybe you could have worked in a solar panel factory. However, you don't.

  16. #16
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    Re: A math problem.

    there are people that are paid to decide what is a legal war and what is illegal aggression. did you see all the members of the united nations go to war against USA to protect saddam? wait, did you see anybody? just one country go to war to help saddam? saddam was illegally holding millions of people as slaves, they are now free. rejoice.

    did you see anybody declare war on USA for its illegal invasion of afganistan or iraq? nope. as a matter of fact, the reports i heard said that the russians and others were very helpful in those efforts.

    just because they don't tell you, doesn't mean that the powers of the world don't talk to each other and decide these things, behind closed doors.

    you are simply reciting propaganda you heard. stop. question everything.
    -------------------------------
    uh, don't have any problems. my life is fine. my electric bill, across the street from the beach, is $60, not $13,000.

    ya'll keep telling me that other people have problems. they can't pay for medical care or can't find a job. honestly, i spend most days just giggling happy that i have no real problems.

    obama is spending trillions. if he wants to put a solar panel factory in detroit or haiti, he can. as far as i can tell, he paid people 99 weeks to not work, paid GE to not employ americans for anything, not windmills, not solar panels, not lightbulbs - americans get none of the work.

    the rest of the stimulus gave raise to government employees, like teachers. no new jobs.

    i didn't do it. obama didn't call and ask me before he spent all that money. someday we may find out who got all the bribes but probably we will never know.
    Last edited by mumbles; 04-23-2010 at 07:03 PM.

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