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  1. #1
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    Scary Global Warming question.

    Action vs. Inaction?



    As an adult we often make choices with incomplete data. We do this by considering the consequences and effects of our actions and determining what has the greatest likely hood of Benefit vs. Risk. So please consider the fallowing.

    We can all talk about climate till we are blue in the face. However, the facts are the earth is getting warmer and there is a good body of evidence that human activities played some role. There is also a chance that this is natural or we are too far gone to make any difference.

    However, that being said let’s consider the general Consequences of those actions. Eg) Recession, Loss of arable land, Famine, War.


    Options:
    1.) AWG is true and we did something to prevent/slow down the impact?
    2.) AWG is true and we did nothing?
    3.) AWG is false and we did something?
    4.) AWG is false and we did nothing?

    -Keep in mind for all of the above the earth is still getting warmer.
    -Forget the science for a second, forget the specifics. Consider the entire picture from all sides.


    Just consider the consequences of Action vs. Inaction from all outcomes.

    I’ve asked people to consider the consequences before and certain people are unable to even entertain the option. This is not a political debate this is a simple consideration of consequences.

    What could be so Scary about a simple question?
    Last edited by Spector567; 04-22-2010 at 03:40 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Queue the "Cap and Trade" political morons.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  3. #3
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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Queue the "Cap and Trade" political morons.
    Very true. However, I'm sure they have a very convincing list of consequences to promote inaction. I'm also sure they certainly must have considered the other options like any reasonable adult.

    Show us. No articles, No being out scienced. Just a simple exercise in logic.

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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    What could be so Scary about a simple question?
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.


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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    i would like for you to spend all your time and your money to prevent whatever you want to prevent. don't make plans to spend my time and money.

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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    i would like for you to spend all your time and your money to prevent whatever you want to prevent. don't make plans to spend my time and money.
    Alright. Deal.

    While we're at it. I don't dump my rubbish on your lawn, so how about you stop polluting my air, or at least pay to clean up your mess.

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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    i am not polluting your air, the chinese are, to make all those consumer goods, like computers that you and your neighbors can't live without. hop on over there to china and make them stop. aw, fork, that's not going to work is it? there's billions of them and they all don't give a shit what you think.

    oh, the other thing they are making is weapons, lots and lots of deadly weapons, to make sure they can make you do whatever they like.

    and your answer to the threat? lets all smoke pot and have some gay sex. oh, yeah, and rant about global warming.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/22/bu...e&ref=business

    Molycorp is making a big bet that its mine — once the world leader in production of rare earth elements, but now a rusting relic — can be made competitive again. Global demand is surging for the minerals. And customers, particularly the American military, are seeking alternatives to China, which now mines 97 percent of the world’s rare earth elements.

    But Molycorp, like other foundation stones of American industrial pre-eminence that have cracked or eroded under foreign competition, faces challenges that may prevent its bet from paying off.

    see, USA stopped strip mining, so there is less? no, just moved it out of sight.

    Worldwide sales of freshly mined rare earth oxides, although growing more than 10 percent a year, were still only worth about $1.4 billion last year, limiting the potential sales of new mines. Molycorp and the other companies face a challenge to match China’s low costs, a result of low wages and China’s willingness to tolerate heavy environmental damage from rare earth element mines, which have turned some areas into moonscapes.
    Last edited by mumbles; 04-22-2010 at 08:17 PM.

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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.



    http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...ate-scientist/

    The embattled ex-head of the research center at the heart of the Climate-gate scandal dropped a bombshell over the weekend, admitting in an interview with the BBC that there has been no global warming over the past 15 years.
    these two are experts and should know, eh?

    but kazza mentioned recent drought in austrailia as proof of global warming.

    here is the evidence:

    Droughts in the 19th century
    1803 Drought in NSW that produced severe crop failures.
    1809 Beginning of an unusually severe drought in NSW that continued until 1811.
    1813-15 Severe drought in NSW that prompted searches for new pastures.
    1826-29 Severe drought in NSW that caused Lake George to dry up and the Darling River to cease flowing.[4]
    Since 1860, when adequate meteorological recording commenced, the most severe droughts have occurred commonly at intervals of 11 to 14 years. Major droughts that were recorded later in the 19th century include:

    1829 Major drought in Western Australia with very little water available.[5]
    1835 and 1838 Sydney and NSW receive 25% less rain than usual. Severe drought in Northam and York areas of Western Australia.
    1838-39 Droughts in South Australia and Western Australia
    1839 Severe drought in the west and north of Spencer Gulf, South Australia.
    1846 Severe drought converted the interior and far north of South Australia into an arid desert.
    1849 Sydney received about 27 inches less rain than normal.
    1850 Severe drought, with big losses of livestock across inland New South Wales (NSW) and around the western rivers region.
    1864 - 66 (and 1868).
    The little data available indicates that this drought period was rather severe in Victoria, South Australia, New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia.

    1877 All States affected by severe drought, with disastrous losses in Queensland. In Western Australia many native trees died, swamps dried up and crops failed.
    1880 to 1886 Drought in Victoria (northern areas and Gippsland); New South Wales (mainly northern wheat belt, Northern Tablelands and south coast); Queensland (1881-86, in south-east with breaks - otherwise mainly in coastal areas, the central highlands and central interior in 1883-86); and South Australia (1884-86, mainly in agricultural areas).
    1888 Extremely dry in Victoria (northern areas and Gippsland); Tasmania (1887-89 in the south); New South Wales had the driest year since records began; Queensland (1888-89) had a very severe drought, with much native scrub dying and native animals perishing; South Australia had one of its most severe droughts; and Western Australia (central agricultural areas) lost many sheep.[6]
    of course there were droughts before that, just nobody around who could write about it.
    Last edited by mumbles; 04-22-2010 at 09:12 PM.

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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    i am not polluting your air, the chinese are, to make all those consumer goods, like computers that you and your neighbors can't live without.
    Like the computer you posted this message from?
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  11. #11
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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    The embattled ex-head of the research center at the heart of the Climate-gate scandal dropped a bombshell over the weekend, admitting in an interview with the BBC that there has been no global warming over the past 15 years.
    these two are experts and should know, eh?
    If course, honest people who have read what Jones actually said know the above statement is a bare-faced lie.

    Heres what he actually said:
    B - Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming
    Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.
    There has been warming between 1995 to 2009, 0.12C per decade. But not significant at 95% significance level. Thats why longer term trends are needed.
    Last edited by thistle; 04-23-2010 at 01:24 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    these two are experts and should know, eh?

    but kazza mentioned recent drought in austrailia as proof of global warming.

    here is the evidence:


    of course there were droughts before that, just nobody around who could write about it.
    I've never mentioned drought as proof of global warming, you half-wit. Have you understood nothing of what anyone posts in response to your sound-bite, youtube clips that you seem to get all your information from?

    The only times I've mentioned the drought is when I've been asked about the weather in Australia.

    The whole point of mentioning it was to point out the absurdity of those who say it's cold in their neighbourhood, and therefore the rest of the world must be cold too.

    You've got your head buried so far in the sand it's ridiculous.

  13. #13
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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Thank you mumbles. I doubt anyone here ever mistook you for an educated mind but thank you for proving it completely and utterly.

    The fact that you can't even for a second consider the possibilities shows everyone that you are the one with the mind full of silly dogma.

    i would like for you to spend all your time and your money to prevent whatever you want to prevent. don't make plans to spend my time and money.
    It's not your money being spent. Your money is going to the schools you flunked out of. It's one of those irony things.

    If you can't even consider the possibility and you don't care about anyone around you or the future generation. Why the should I care about you.

    Of course it's easy to prove me wrong. Consider the options.

  14. #14
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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    i would like for you to spend all your time and your money to prevent whatever you want to prevent. don't make plans to spend my time and money.
    Then immediately stop using our publicly maintained roads, or use of the publicly funded police force, or the publicly funded fire department, or the publicly funded school system, or be defended by the publicly funded military, or rely on the publicly funded Medicare and Social Security. And, get off the computer who technologies were made possible by the publicly funded NASA.....

    But feel free to continue to display your dishonesty and your lack of intellect.

    ....or STFU with your stupid self.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    Sadly I knew those who disagreed could never enter this discussion honestly. If they had they would have come to the same conclusion the rest of us had or be forced to justify that conclusion.

    I’m sure some will disagree with the below and I’m damn sure others will agree.

    Options:
    1.) AWG is true and we did something to prevent/slow down the impact?
    Recession and other economic impacts.

    2.) AWG is true and we did nothing?
    Recession (from the effects), Increased flooding, storms, loss of arable land, famine, Social unrest, public health issues, and possible resource wars.

    3.) AWG is false and we did something?
    Recession (from the effects), Increased flooding, storms, loss of arable land, famine, Social unrest, public health issues, and possible resource wars.

    4.) AWG is false and we did nothing?
    Recession (from the effects), Increased flooding, storms, loss of arable land, famine, Social unrest, public health issues, and possible resource wars.

    Agree or disagree with AWG it's very clear what the consequences are. In short if the negative effect that would occur due to taking action would be felt by all options. Plus the other options would have a significant increase in global catastrophes both natural and manmade.

    So perhaps someone can explain to me why we should choose inaction over action? Because it appears to me that Action has far fewer negative impacts and also carries with it a technology jump and decreased fossil fuel dependence.

    I have friends who disagree with AWG but even they without prompting at all fully agree that action is better than inaction considering the vast worldwide consequences of the choices that are made.

    Agree or disagree with likelihood of any of this. Or even disagree with the cause.

    Action is better than Inaction.
    Last edited by Spector567; 04-24-2010 at 01:48 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Scary Global Warming question.

    signifigance level means: is it important enough to do something about it?

    if i was pretty sure i lost 30 cents somewhere, i wouldn't spend $5 on gas to go back to the beach to look for it. our leaders, obama, clinton, pelosi, flew to copenhagen to promise we will pay 100 billion dollars a year or more to other countries to mitigate the effects fo global warming. (of course, those poor countries can't account for any for the aid they have already received.)

    our leader, obama has promised to make our electric bills skyrocket to force us to produce less carbon. nobody has any extra money to pay these extra charges. we can't pay what we already owe to social security and the national debt.

    how about we try to pay for the more signifigant problems first, then, if money is left over, we can worry about things that are a little less than signifgant.

    AGW is a religion for the godless.

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