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  1. #1
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    Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Greetings All,

    Ken Miller on Intelligent Design
    Copyright © 2006 YouTube, Inc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsW...igent%20design

    Added on January 06, 2006, 12:12 AM

    “Ken Miller's talk on Intelligent Design at Case Western University. Ken Miller basically rips Intelligent Design apart in a 2 hour long exposé of the claims of intelligent design and the tactics that creationists employ to get it shoehorned into the American school system.”

    Excellent, highly recommended. Ken Miller provides a comprehensive overview of several recent ID litigations and debates. Dover is covered as well has OH, Kansas, GA and others. Ken Miller covers in detail, w/slide show and graphics many of the arguments presented in court by both sides. Discussion and Q&A starts at about 70.00 min.
    Ken Miller is both professional and entertaining in this presentation, but the vid is long and is best viewed in two sessions to avoid info overload.
    Jim

  2. #2
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    Greetings All,

    Ken Miller on Intelligent Design
    Copyright © 2006 YouTube, Inc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsW...igent%20design

    Added on January 06, 2006, 12:12 AM

    “Ken Miller's talk on Intelligent Design at Case Western University. Ken Miller basically rips Intelligent Design apart in a 2 hour long exposé of the claims of intelligent design and the tactics that creationists employ to get it shoehorned into the American school system.”

    Excellent, highly recommended. Ken Miller provides a comprehensive overview of several recent ID litigations and debates. Dover is covered as well has OH, Kansas, GA and others. Ken Miller covers in detail, w/slide show and graphics many of the arguments presented in court by both sides. Discussion and Q&A starts at about 70.00 min.
    Ken Miller is both professional and entertaining in this presentation, but the vid is long and is best viewed in two sessions to avoid info overload.
    Jim
    What a great link man! I haven't watched it yet but it sounds great, thank for posting it. Love things like this...

  3. #3
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    WOW!!
    Had to stop after 45 minutes... gotta fix dinner...

    great presentation!!!

  4. #4
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Ken Miller rocks. Was this the presentation that Demski backed out of?

  5. #5
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    i dont even know what this is about(i dont have highspeed internet)other than the desperate(desperadoes,why dont cha) accolades of the......closet woohoos!?(like me!?)but i will say this.i can and will debate him anywhere anytime with NO NOTES OR no PREPERATION!?hehe!!WHY!?cause i have nothing to lose!?hehe!!and everything to gain!?(his recognition!?)hehe!!not because i have an opinion(which i do of course) but because i live in the now.(I WISH!?)hehe!!but that's my point!?as the hymen of fox would say!?hehe!!i've seen some great hymen on fox i might ad!?call it a privelidge!?american,not iranian!?hehe!!now ya know!?but then,there is satelite!?OOPS!!hehe!!nobody is as current as the lexx!!i want my own radio talk show!?hehe!!
    Last edited by lexx; 05-22-2006 at 03:54 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Great lecture, I'm about halfway through it now 'cause I'm working at the same time but yeah it's really really good. Everyone should watch it

  7. #7
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Synik
    Ken Miller rocks. Was this the presentation that Demski backed out of?
    Somebody backed out, I’m not sure who. This venue was intended to be a debate. After watching the video it becomes apparent that the ID movement does not have anybody with the intellect or integrity to stand up in a debate to Ken Miller. Moot point, It would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    Also in the video it is noted that the creationist wing nuts have realized that creationism can not be presented as ID anymore. They are already rehashing their strategy. In Ohio they are now trying to rewrite the definition of science itself in the standards used in public schools.
    Last edited by Phinnly Slash Buster; 05-22-2006 at 03:03 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    OK...so i have to surmise by default that "KEN" is barbies other half in the get a life doll market!?capeesh!?hehe!!so what does this mean!?well i for 1 can debate ken anywhere anytime!?into the ground!?or up to y the skye!?(WHO KNEW)!?call me!!hehe!!989-576-9446!?hehe!!

  9. #9
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Any complexity is irreducible, if you consider that entropy naturally increases with time, regardless of how or when you measure it.

  10. #10
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Any complexity is irreducible??

  11. #11
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    Greetings All,

    Ken Miller on Intelligent Design
    Copyright © 2006 YouTube, Inc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsW...igent%20design

    Added on January 06, 2006, 12:12 AM

    “Ken Miller's talk on Intelligent Design at Case Western University. Ken Miller basically rips Intelligent Design apart in a 2 hour long exposé of the claims of intelligent design and the tactics that creationists employ to get it shoehorned into the American school system.”

    Excellent, highly recommended. Ken Miller provides a comprehensive overview of several recent ID litigations and debates. Dover is covered as well has OH, Kansas, GA and others. Ken Miller covers in detail, w/slide show and graphics many of the arguments presented in court by both sides. Discussion and Q&A starts at about 70.00 min.
    Ken Miller is both professional and entertaining in this presentation, but the vid is long and is best viewed in two sessions to avoid info overload.
    Jim

    This is quite old but yet very astonishing and the information provided tears up Creationism. What I would seriously like to see is a Richard Dawkins debating Wilder-Smith(a creationist) video. Dawkins tore Wilder-Smith up in that live debate at University Oxford in 1986. Although, Catholics already approve of Evolution but yet for some reason Christians will not approve of Evolution.

  12. #12
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by rimmon3
    Any complexity is irreducible, if you consider that entropy naturally increases with time, regardless of how or when you measure it.
    That's not true at all. The entropic law (2nd law of thermodynamics) was only ever meant to be applied to closed thermodynamic systems, you can't just take a law and apply it to everything. What happens when you take Einstein's laws and start applying them to sub-atomic particles? They don't work that's why quantum mechanics exists, it's the same for the thermodynamic principles

  13. #13
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    good link. and good video.

  14. #14
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Subjunk...dont bother....

  15. #15
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Any complexity is irreducible??
    Ken Miller doesn't rip ID apart. In his watered down way of warming up the crowd, he names irreducible complexity as the main defense for ID. He rips apart that concept alone and the means used to present it.

    A caricature claiming that evolution is from Satan does not disprove ID any more than it proves the case, especially when irreducible complexity is the centerpiece of your argument.

    I will explain my case in slightly more detail, shortly.

    you can't just take a law and apply it to everything.
    :confused:
    We're talking about the amount of energy unavailable for work, right?

    To be a little more philosophical, things progress toward disorder. Does it sound more natural for a form made of meat to decompose (into more stable chemical states), or for it to compose itself into states with a higher potential for chemical energy? This is the equivalent of a rechargeable battery charging itself, instead of slowly running out and rusting away.

    But, let's say that thermodynamics stop in the point of a singularity. In other words time stops before the Big Bang. Then, the evolutionary story sounds like an exploding stick of dynamite on a videotape. The videotape is on pause when there is no time.

    If time is a measure of the rate of change, change cannot occur before, or outside of, time. Causality would collapse, and so would any natural excuse for existence.

    And for that matter, evolutionists also seem to believe that the rate of change is relatively steady over time when they try to find a date. When they try to explain why lifeforms become obsolete, they say necessity increased over rates of time. When you cannot be sure how long things take to progress, you cannot say that progression is possible under a given set of conditions. Those sets of conditions form your frame of referense, and the loss of that frame of referense causes developements to appear random. You could no longer say why any progressive change occured, or place it on a timeline.

    So, chemicals are extracted from a random depth, by use of the same forces they have already been exposed to in nature. I can't tell you what to think, but I'm not feeling the certainty around here...
    Last edited by rimmon3; 06-03-2006 at 08:45 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by rimmon3
    Ken Miller doesn't rip ID apart.
    Rimmon3,
    Maybe you should contact Ken Miller and debate him. Focusing on the minutia of some of his arguments in a lame attempt to undermine his well stated case does not advance ID in any way.
    ID has lost every legal challenge in recent months. And that is with people on both sides of the argument smarter than me or you.
    Sounds like sour grapes to me.
    PSB

    PS: The ID loonies themselves have acknowledged defeat [covered by Ken Miller in the video]. They are not likely to present their arguments under the banner of ‘Intelligent Design’ in the future. Instead they have chosen to corrupt the definition of science itself and place ridiculous warning labels on textbooks.
    So your argument has already been left in the dust. Even by the folks you apparently support.
    Last edited by Phinnly Slash Buster; 06-04-2006 at 12:12 AM.

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