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  1. #1
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    Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Bonobos and orangutans are capable of future planning, according to a study published in the journal Science.

    Researchers found the apes could select a suitable tool for reaching a treat, carry it away, and return with it to retrieve the reward hours later.

    Forward planning is thought by some to be a uniquely human trait.

    The German team suggests such skills may have evolved about 14 million years ago, when bonobos, orangutans and humans shared a common ancestor.

    This skill could have been present in the common ancestor to all great apes - Dr Josep Call

    "We showed that individuals are able to pick up a tool, transport it to a different location, keep it there for at least an hour, and bring it back to solve a problem," explained lead author Dr Josep Call, from the Max Plank Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.

    "Previous studies had shown that chimps and other animals can transport tools to solve a problem on the spot - so they will go and even make a tool and then they will bring it to solve a problem.

    "But the main difference with the tasks that we tried is that here when they transport the tool and save it, they have no use for the tool. They need to anticipate that they will require it solve a problem in the future."

    The waiting room

    The scientists investigated this with a series of experiments.

    In one of these, the apes were taught how to use a tool to retrieve a treat from a piece of apparatus.

    Then the researchers offered the apes a selection of tools - some suitable, some not - but blocked their immediate access to the reward. Instead, the apes were led away to another location where they had to wait for an hour before being returned to the original room where, if they had selected the correct tool, they could release their treat.

    Six out of 16 times the apes successfully chose the correct tool, kept it with them in the waiting room, and then used it to access the reward.

    The team found the success rate was about the same when they increased the waiting time to 14 hours - enough time for the apes to sleep in between collecting and using the tool.

    "Traditional learning theory has a hard time explaining this, and several scientists had postulated that future planning is something beyond the capabilities of animals, so we were very surprised to see this," said Dr Call.

    The scientists looked at bonobos and orangutans because they represent our closest and most distant great ape relatives, respectively. Humans and bonobos evolved into separate lineages about five to seven million years ago; orangutans about 14 million years ago.

    "Because both orangutans and bonobos showed the ability to future plan in these tasks, this means this skill could have been present in the common ancestor to all great apes," Dr Call told the BBC News website.

    Next, the team plans to investigate whether the apes will protect their tool if they share the waiting room with a competitor.

  2. #2
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    i think you would be really amazed by the book the rosicrucian (rosy cross)cosmo-conception by max heindel.it's a book about evolution in all of it's aspects.spiritual/actual.it says that ape became blackman,blackman became white man.hehe!!now i have personally observed the behavior of all three in their own environment and it clicks with what i've witnessed.now the book also states that lifeforms are not all evolving together but the path of evolution is a universal way(constuction) for lifeforms to evolve by choice!?and that choice is due to the influence of some factor not apparent to science!?it's really a freaky read but i attemp it every once and a while!and of course,the bible also falls in that category of freaky reads!?hehe!!
    Last edited by lexx; 05-21-2006 at 08:49 PM.

  3. #3
    blindside Guest

    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    i'd say apes are incredibly intelligent, we are all just apes walking on 2 feet. We've created this wonderfully complex internet world, i'd say that is pretty clever and some great planning.

    It all started with water. We are all really just evolved water. I mean, look at us. We left the ocean, but we still carry it with us (75% of the body is water), and oh wait, you have to refuel with water and rehydrate everysingle day. Its crazy to think that the water is now thinking and can actually even realize itself.

    It really is something spectacular, 800 million years of basically uninterupted evolution to get to descent intelligence that we exhibit today. Look into someone's eyes...........you can see tha they are just a "water baloon". And think about it, you are water that always needs to refuel, if you don't get water you die, plain and simple.

    I'm just wondering where the evolution of man will continue to go. I feel that we will begin to lose most of our physical strength as it will be uneeded, we will become hariless, very very developed brains and hands. IF you look at someone, they kind of look like an alien already. And the "aliens" that we all have as a myth in our head, you know, thin body, large head, slanted eyes... that could be the future of man.

    Asians are the most evolved of the human races now, and push that another couple of hundred thousand years, or even 1 million years, what is the human race going to be like then. We changed from ape to man ape in oh idk 50-100,000 years. So what will another 100,000 be, or 1 million. Surely it will not be the human race any more, that of course is if the world stays intact and their are no mass extinctions.

    2800, there is a massive asteroid that is supposed to be directly in our path, And yellowstone national park is a mega-volcano. When it blows, the world will covered with ash and soot, blocking out the sun, for about 20 years. Killing all life depending on the sun, which is pretty much everything. Only small plants and animals will survive, just how we survived the dinosaur extinction 65 million years ago.

    But as far as apes planning ahead, I know that I usually plan a head sometimes, so apes (us) can surely plan ahead.

  4. #4
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    i think you would be really amazed by the book the rosicrucian (rosy cross)cosmo-conception by max heindel.it's a book about evolution in all of it's aspects.spiritual/actual.it says that ape became blackman,blackman became white man.hehe!!now i have personally observed the behavior of all three in their own environment and it clicks with what i've witnessed.now the book also states that lifeforms are not all evolving together but the path of evolution is a universal way(constuction) for lifeforms to evolve by choice!?and that choice is due to the influence of some factor not apparent to science!?it's really a freaky read but i attemp it every once and a while!and of course,the bible also falls in that category of freaky reads!?hehe!!
    Hahaha you're a racist dirty old man lexx. But yeah that is true of how it happened, but I don't think black cultures are less "evolved" than the one white men have created, it's impossible to judge whose is better or worse, or evolved or devolved, because they focus on such different things. Value is placed on different aspects. White man's culture revolves around money while many black cultures revolve around spiritual aspects, traditions and family.
    In white culture we are individuals, and in many black cultures an individual is nothing without a family.

  5. #5
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by blindside
    I'm just wondering where the evolution of man will continue to go. I feel that we will begin to lose most of our physical strength as it will be uneeded, we will become hariless, very very developed brains and hands. IF you look at someone, they kind of look like an alien already. And the "aliens" that we all have as a myth in our head, you know, thin body, large head, slanted eyes... that could be the future of man.
    I disagree, I think our evolution won't go any further.

    Remember the basics of evolution (which I know you know, I'm just reminding you) which are that a genetic mutation will only become dominant if it increases the chances of survival or procreativity in any way to any degree.

    In the world humans have created, we are all basically just as likely to live and procreate as everyone else. People with genetic defects (people who would've been "naturally selected" out of the gene pool at one point in time) are helped with medication and surgery to be normal.
    We aren't going to evolve at all anymore, in my opinion.

  6. #6
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    actually hitlers regime was working on the same thing even if at the expense of others that it/the crowd chose to sacrifice and all for the greater GOOD we all crave in a better society!?not personally,but if put to the gun to the head test!?WHO KNOWS!?ahhhh! that's the real test is it not!?well no,not in america,over here a word will suffice to exact the a same response!?the effects of a spoiled9yet fearful)and tender culture i guess!?musical chairs rules!?but in a nice way if you dont contest it!?except in florida and texas i'm told!?hehe!!WHO KNEW!?the truth aint popular by any means!?long live the dream!?for the privelidged i guess!?WHO IS DAT!? you know who you are!?hehe!!

  7. #7
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Hahaha you're a racist dirty old man lexx. But yeah that is true of how it happened, but I don't think black cultures are less "evolved" than the one white men have created, it's impossible to judge whose is better or worse, or evolved or devolved, because they focus on such different things. Value is placed on different aspects. White man's culture revolves around money while many black cultures revolve around spiritual aspects, traditions and family.
    In white culture we are individuals, and in many black cultures an individual is nothing without a family.

    you KNOW i posted that lookin for trouble and a response from you!?hehe!!but i ALSO quoted a SORCSE so as NOT to be considered ALONE in this matter!?hehe!!what if it's true!?or not!?hehe!!what difference does it make!?i was really tryin to see your side of evolution as it were!?if i have to take the blame,so be it!?hehe!!i'm old and can NOT GIVE A s h i t!?hehe!!NIGGA!?i got that from another poster!?respect is respect regardless of words!?if a call man nigga and he is offended,if i fall at his feet and kiss them will he kill me!?WHO KNOWS!?rent "maverick"(gibson)if ya can get it!!you will love it more than mr.magic!!hehe!!trust the lexx!!there is nothing else!?hehe!!
    Last edited by lexx; 05-22-2006 at 03:30 AM.

  8. #8
    blindside Guest

    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    i disagree, not evolving anymore would have to involve a "perfect" creature, something that has no need for change. Perfect is an impossibility i believe, so we will surely continue to change. Our diets and thirst for knowledge will change us..do you think in 1 million years, if our genetic lines are still around, that it will be the exact species as we have today...i personally don't think so

  9. #9
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by blindside
    It all started with water. We are all really just evolved water. I mean, look at us. We left the ocean, but we still carry it with us (75% of the body is water), and oh wait, you have to refuel with water and rehydrate everysingle day. Its crazy to think that the water is now thinking and can actually even realize itself.

    It really is something spectacular, 800 million years of basically uninterupted evolution to get to descent intelligence that we exhibit today. Look into someone's eyes...........you can see tha they are just a "water baloon". And think about it, you are water that always needs to refuel, if you don't get water you die, plain and simple.

    Well actually bushman in Africa can live much longer in the desert without water then we can. They have developed ways of getting little drops of water a day from select roots from the ground. The average man would die in 2 or 3 days in the desert. BUT! These bushman can live for weeks if need be.....

  10. #10
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by blindside
    i disagree, not evolving anymore would have to involve a "perfect" creature, something that has no need for change. Perfect is an impossibility i believe, so we will surely continue to change. Our diets and thirst for knowledge will change us..do you think in 1 million years, if our genetic lines are still around, that it will be the exact species as we have today...i personally don't think so
    Not at all, it has nothing to do with perfection. Evolution has no aims, no goals, it is blind. However, for evolution to occur certain conditions need to be met. One of these, as SJ pointed out, is selection. We most often talk about natural selection, but there are other forms as well. For selection to occur there needs to be more people born than can survive to procreate, and with the world as it is now, most people, regardless of their genetic makeup, procreate. So by and large, evolution by selection has ceased for human kind.

    I would imagine however, that in parts of the world with severe poverty, there is selection taking place. Perhaps over time the people of these areas will evolve to require a lower food intake, ie. become more effecient at converting food to energy. Hopefully we put an end to poverty long before that though.

  11. #11
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza
    Not at all, it has nothing to do with perfection. Evolution has no aims, no goals, it is blind. However, for evolution to occur certain conditions need to be met. One of these, as SJ pointed out, is selection. We most often talk about natural selection, but there are other forms as well. For selection to occur there needs to be more people born than can survive to procreate, and with the world as it is now, most people, regardless of their genetic makeup, procreate. So by and large, evolution by selection has ceased for human kind.

    I would imagine however, that in parts of the world with severe poverty, there is selection taking place. Perhaps over time the people of these areas will evolve to require a lower food intake, ie. become more effecient at converting food to energy. Hopefully we put an end to poverty long before that though.
    Thanks, saved me some time :p

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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Does this study confirm that we are actually digressing? So few of us actually plan ahead - and we dam well know what's going to happen. Perhaps faith, or the odds of winning the lottery, is really what seperates us?

  13. #13
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Does anyone every dispair looking at the demographics of who breeds these days? Everytime I look around it seems the best and brightest in our society are doing the least 'passing on' of their genes and personal traits.

  14. #14
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by linda49
    Does this study confirm that we are actually digressing? So few of us actually plan ahead - and we dam well know what's going to happen. Perhaps faith, or the odds of winning the lottery, is really what seperates us?
    which reminds me of the scriptural "INJUNCTION"(new testicle)to TAKE NO THOUGHT FOR TOMMORROW!?where have you SEEN/EXPERIENCED this LATELY!?love may run the world........but IT doesn't OWN IT!?just askin!?it's all relative,to my ILLUSION!?(what's that!?)someone died,i lied!?or i lied,someone died!?pick your take and make your "fake" move/show!?who's gonna call it!?hehe!!odds are.........you WIN!!........hehe!!

  15. #15
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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    I don't know how far we will evolve and if we will evolve into a different species, but I think we are evolving right now.

    Babies are doing things quicker now than they used to, holding their head up, crawling, walking.

    Teenagers, especially girls, are starting their periods earlier and hitting puberty sooner.

    This probably comes from the hormones in meat, but over time, couldn't that cause some changes in society, even without the hormones? Our bodies are making adjustments for the pollutants in air, won't that cause changes over time?

    What's likely to cause major changes first, is cloning. If we screw up, I think we could screw some of our species up.

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    Re: Study shows apes can plan ahead

    And as to the apes planning ahead...people don't give animals enough credit. My cats plan ahead all the time. I have one stupid cat and one smart cat along with a stupid dog. But I have had a smart dog before and I have always thought them capable of planning ahead.

    I've also heard that cats and dogs have a memory of about a week. I don't know who came up with that but they've obviously never had pets, and if they did, it was in some short expiremental trial.

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