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  1. #1
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    Coal - Its Free And Natural

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal

    About 40% of the world's electricity comes from coal,[14] and approximately 49% of the United States electricity comes from coal.[15]
    cold? get some coal. burn it. it makes carbon dioxide that plants convert to oxygen.


  2. #2
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Great idea.

    We'll just wait 1,000,000 years for some trees to decay.

    Or we could use cleaner more efficient power supplies. Like Nuclear.

  3. #3
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Yeah, let the plants make more. Oh wait, except we're chopping them all down and clearing them out for land development...

  4. #4
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    You forgot the sulfur.
    Or is Acid Rain another one of them Libberul Plots.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rain

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/11/2...de-limits.html
    Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

  5. #5
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    well, yeah, low sulfur coal is better but prez clinton got bribed to prevent the mining in utah. national monument. monument to what?

    bet scrubbing the sulfur from coal smoke would cost less than buying windmills from china?

  6. #6
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    well, yeah, low sulfur coal is better but prez clinton got bribed to prevent the mining in utah. national monument. monument to what?

    bet scrubbing the sulfur from coal smoke would cost less than buying windmills from china?
    Mumbles you should really start doing your research before you make such broad assumptions.


    http://www.altenergystocks.com/archi...ble_power.html

    In infact costs more and potentially much more to build a coal plant.

    For new energy production

    New coal energy costs anywhere from $3750 - $5750 per KW produced.

    Compared to Windmills that cost. $1500-$5500 per KW produced

    These figures are from 1998 and new coal plants costs increased much more drastically over 4 years than renewable energy.

    Plus. A coal plant would require the continual purchasing of new coal that just like many other commodities is rising.

    The wind is free.

    Than there is also the environmental impact that you probably don't care about. However, the government is cleaning it up costing the tax payer and someone is breathing it in costing the consumer.

    You should really do your research.
    Last edited by Spector567; 02-24-2010 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    that chart shows the numbers after Obama adds on cap and trade taxes to coal and gives government subsidies to windmills, i presume. EU already has these taxes and subsidies.

    we have coal, just got to pay some american to dig it out and put it on the truck. we don't have any windmills and apparently, we can't make them, have to buy them from china.

    if windmill power was cheap, the chinese would use it to power their windmill factories. they don't. they use coal.

  8. #8
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    that chart shows the numbers after Obama adds on cap and trade taxes to coal and gives government subsidies to windmills, i presume. EU already has these taxes and subsidies.

    we have coal, just got to pay some american to dig it out and put it on the truck. we don't have any windmills and apparently, we can't make them, have to buy them from china.

    if windmill power was cheap, the chinese would use it to power their windmill factories. they don't. they use coal.
    No mumbles that number shows the cost of building the power plant.

    The cost of materials and labour. Not tax credits. You should really read the article.

    It shows that it's cheaper to build a windmill from china than to build a coal plant in order to increase the national energy supply.
    The result is the chart below, which shows the capital costs of building generation capacity in 2008 as compared to 2003-2004. The caveat with this graph is that accurate data on power plant capital costs is hard to come by given the sensitivity of this information. Nevertheless, the results from these estimates show that while the inflationary environment in power generation capital costs has impacted all fuel sources, wind has been impacted to a lesser extent than competing fuels like coal. While combined cycle and combustion turbine gas remains cheaper than wind, wind has made up some ground on the 2003-2004 period.
    How on earth does Oboma have anything to do with an article that clearly talks about 2003-2008.

    Also as to china
    At the end of 2009, wind power in China accounted for 25.1 gigawatts (GW) of electricity generating capacity,[1] and China has identified wind power as a key growth component of the country's economy.[2] China is the third largest producer of wind power, after the United States and Germany.[3] With its large land mass and long coastline, China has exceptional wind resources.[4]
    Researchers from Harvard and Tsinghua University have found that China could meet all of their electricity demands from wind power through 2030.[5]
    By the end of 2008, at least 15 Chinese companies were commercially producing wind turbines and several dozen more were producing components.[6] Turbine sizes of 1.5 MW to 3 MW became common. Leading wind power companies were Goldwind, Dongfang, and Sinovel.[7] China also increased production of small-scale wind turbines to about 80,000 turbines (80 MW) in 2008. Through all these developments, the Chinese wind industry appeared unaffected by the global financial crisis, according to industry observers.[7]
    In 2009, China became the third largest wind energy provider worldwide (behind USA and Germany), with the installed wind power capacity reaching 20 GW at the end of 2009. According to the Global Wind Energy Council, the development of wind energy in China, in terms of scale and rhythm, is absolutely unparalleled in the world. The National People's Congress permanent committee passed a law that requires the Chinese energy companies to purchase all the electricity produced by the renewable energy sector.[8]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_China


    Also I found I made a previous error.



    America is leading the world in energy produced by wind power. However None of the major manufactures exist in the united states.




    At the end of 2009, the installed capacity of wind power in the United States was just over 35,000 megawatts (35 GW),[2][3] making it the world leader ahead of Germany. Wind power accounts for about 1.9% of the electricity generated in the United States (1.3% at the end of 2008 [4][5]).
    Over 9,900 MW of new wind power capacity was brought online in 2009, up from 8,800 in 2008. These new installations place the U.S. on a trajectory to generate 20% of the nationís electricity by 2030 from wind energy.[2] Growth in 2008 channeled some $17 billion into the economy, positioning wind power as one of the leading sources of new power generation in the country, along with natural gas. New wind projects completed in 2008 account for about 42% of the entire new power-producing capacity added in the U.S. during the year.[5]
    At the end of 2008, about 85,000 people were employed in the U.S. wind industry,[6] and GE Energy was the largest domestic wind turbine manufacturer.[1] Wind projects boosted local tax bases, and revitalized the economy of rural communities by providing a steady income stream to farmers with wind turbines on their land.[1] Wind power in the U.S. provides enough electricity to power the equivalent of nearly 9 million homes, avoiding the emissions of 57 million tons of carbon each year and reducing expected carbon emissions from the electricity sector by 2.5%.[5]
    Texas, with 9,410 MW of capacity, has the most wind power capacity of any U.S. state, followed by Iowa with 3,053 MW.[2] The Roscoe Wind Farm (780 MW) in Texas is the world's largest wind farm.[7]
    Last edited by Spector567; 02-24-2010 at 04:56 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    we also consume most of the energy and products of the world but we make stuff in the third world because we don't care if those poor, dark people die, as long as we see blue skies and the air smells nice here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

    i say, if we can't do it here the we should not do it anywhere.

    The Bhopal disaster was an industrial catastrophe that took place at a pesticide plant owned and operated by Union Carbide (UCIL) in Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh, India on December 3, 1984. Around 12 AM, the plant released methyl isocyanate (MIC) gas and other toxins, resulting in the exposure of over 500,000 people. Estimates vary on the death toll. The official immediate death toll was 2259 and the government of M P has confirmed a total of 3787 deaths related to the gas release.[1] Other government agencies estimate 15,000 deaths.[2] Others estimate 8000 to 10,000 died within 72 hours and 25,000 have since died from gas-related diseases.[3][4]
    now, if we aren't allowed to burn coal to make steel and copper wire for windmills here, we should not be doing it in china, and certainly, stimulus money, intended to create jobs in USA should never have been transferred to china. americans have been ripped off! tax money used to create jobs in china. the only jobs created here is more staff in the congressman's office to listen to the complaints.

    it is so sad that the copper being used was in somebody's home before the forclosure, ripped out by scavengers that have no other way to get money, sold to "recycler". sad.
    Last edited by mumbles; 02-24-2010 at 05:12 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    we also consume most of the energy and products of the world but we make stuff in the third world because we don't care if those poor, dark people die, as long as we see blue skies and the air smells nice here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

    i say, if we can't do it here the we should not do it anywhere.



    now, if we aren't allowed to burn coal to make steel and copper wire for windmills here, we should not be doing it in china, and certainly, stimulus money, intended to create jobs in USA should never have been transferred to china. americans have been ripped off! tax money used to create jobs in china. the only jobs created here is more staff in the congressman's office to listen to the complaints.

    it is so sad that the copper being used was in somebody's home before the forclosure, ripped out by scavengers that have no other way to get money, sold to "recycler". sad.
    So in short what you said at the start of your article and subsequent posts was 100% incorrect and you didn't do your research.

    Also appeartly you FAILED to read the fact that China is number 3 for windmills and plans to use them completly by 2030. Aka no pollution there.

    You also failed to notice the red portion.

    Wind projects boosted local tax bases, and revitalized the economy of rural communities by providing a steady income stream to farmers with wind turbines on their land
    Mumbles wake up for god sake.

    Technology has changed from 50 years ago. Not everyone works in manufacturing. Some people are farmers however, I know you don't care about them. You also don't seem to care about the construction workers or the people who live around coal plants.

    In short your a selfish jerk. You don't care about china or any other country, you don't even care about the enviroment of your own. You can't go from we should ignore any and all enviromentalism to we can't pollute china. That's just massivly hypocritical.

    Be a grown up mumbles and just admit you made a mistake and look into it more. I was able to. Why can't you.
    Last edited by Spector567; 02-24-2010 at 06:27 PM.

  11. #11
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    i didn't promise to create jobs. i didn't spend $800 billion trying without anything to show. farmers renting their land to power company makes them happy, but does nothing for me because that cost will be added to my power bill. yeah, tax base, that's me, the guy who pays and gets no benefit.

    for the money they are spending, every town in texas could have its own windmill factory, employing all of its unemployed, selling windmills to the whole world. we would all be rich. the welfare offices would close.
    Last edited by mumbles; 02-24-2010 at 07:33 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    i didn't promise to create jobs. i didn't spend $800 billion trying without anything to show. farmers renting their land to power company makes them happy, but does nothing for me because that cost will be added to my power bill. yeah, tax base, that's me, the guy who pays and gets no benefit.
    Well spending money to put a factory in your town doesn't benifit ANYONE else. So why on earth should we help you personally.

    Tax Base that's me as well and everyone else.


    for the money they are spending, every town in texas could have its own windmill factory, employing all of its unemployed, selling windmills to the whole world. we would all be rich. the welfare offices would close.
    Yep selfish.

    1. Only a few million was spent on windmills not $800 billion and besides your roiting now that they are spending any money on it at all.

    2. Windmills are not like cars you don't need to build 50,000 of them. That's why there are very few plants in the world that build them.

    3. Windmill creation requires skilled workers for detailed construction of the blades, turbine and electrical systems. Some how I doubt you fit that criteria.

    4. Remember in your opinion windmills don't work and never have and never will. You didn't need to look at anything you just kept your opinion from 1950.

    Even when shown that they do work you stuck your fingers in your ears and hummed really loud to defend china from the evil windmills that they are producing.

    5. as previously stated. The jobs didn't got to china. They were already building the factory some time ago.

    However over 35,000 new jobs were created here

    6. What would cost more. Building an expensive coal plant that requires more coal each day. Or a cheaper windmill. In short mumbles The Tax base. Is paying less to build windmills by a long shot than building a coal plant saving you money for the next decade.



    This has gone on for 5 threads now.

    8 months ago you insisted that the weak should fall so the strong would survive and grow stronger.

    I get the feeling that you have now changed your opinion on that. living by your values sucks sometimes.

    I hope you have learned some empathy,
    the ability to think beyond in more than 2 dimensions. Amazingly not everything is black and white.
    and that if you did a little research you'd learn some new things.


    I honestly do wish you luck mumbles but not everything is the governments fault. They didn't create the recession.
    Last edited by Spector567; 02-25-2010 at 03:05 AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Coal is the best bang for the buck by far.

    Massive BTU output and enough for hundreds of years.

    The 18-29 year olds have been brainwashed by the tree hugging communists bent on destroying the US manufacturing base and smokestack industries.
    Coal is a renewable energy as well
    and emmisions and environmental impact is FAR less than nuclear.
    What the brainwashed 20 somethings don't understand is that the highly radioactive nuclear waste will remain
    deadly for hundreds of years and it can't be safely stored.

  14. #14
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Reall???...and it does harm the environment to mine and extract...and it's safe????

    Perhaps you should google, "Centralia, Pennsylvania".

    And when you get done with that, google. "coal slurry"

    http://redgreenandblue.org/2008/12/2...-largest-ever/


    God, the stupid just keep getting more stupid!
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  15. #15
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by ENGINEER60 View Post
    Coal is the best bang for the buck by far.

    Massive BTU output and enough for hundreds of years.

    The 18-29 year olds have been brainwashed by the tree hugging communists bent on destroying the US manufacturing base and smokestack industries.
    Coal is a renewable energy as well
    and emmisions and environmental impact is FAR less than nuclear.
    What the brainwashed 20 somethings don't understand is that the highly radioactive nuclear waste will remain
    deadly for hundreds of years and it can't be safely stored.
    Or it could be that the 20 somethings are more upto date on technology.

    Stop pretending you know something and prove it to us. Try looking up the cost of energy like I did.

    Because your "opinion" is 10-15 years out of date with both technology and economics. Costs and technology have changed as you are well aware.

    This so called green revolution isn't a hippy fad. It's pure economics. Wind power costs less to build and maintain than a coal plant and has considerable less negatives.

    Mumbles you should really start doing your research before you make such broad assumptions.


    http://www.altenergystocks.com/archi...ble_power.html

    In infact costs more and potentially much more to build a coal plant.

    For new energy production

    New coal energy costs anywhere from $3750 - $5750 per KW produced.

    Compared to Windmills that cost. $1500-$5500 per KW produced

    These figures are from 1998 and new coal plants costs increased much more drastically over 4 years than renewable energy.

    Plus. A coal plant would require the continual purchasing of new coal that just like many other commodities is rising.

    The wind is free.

    Than there is also the environmental impact that you probably don't care about. However, the government is cleaning it up costing the tax payer and someone is breathing it in costing the consumer.

    You should really do your research.
    Last edited by Spector567; 03-13-2010 at 10:30 AM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Coal - Its Free And Natural

    sell all our coal to 3rd world countries!? i'm turned on by geothermal possibilities!? and ocean wave action power generation!? wind and solar is great to!? these are all seemingly eternal!? how about algae heat/electrical/biofuel generation!? and i see there is a serious small scale residential faraday over unity generator in construction/testing right now!! i dont like nuclear because of waste problem. maybe they can make cost effective space dumping a reality!? small rocket launcher onsite!? :freak3: :spin2: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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