+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 39

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,424

    A few Questions for Creationists

    Itís only fair afterall. Those who agree with evolution have answered over a hundred of yours in the last year.

    1.) What are the major proofs behind creationism or ID? By proof I donít mean disproof of evolution because thatís only disproof of evolution, and is not supporting evidence for creationism.

    2.) How is it not become your personal opinion and choice to hold one part of the bible as literal and hold other parts as parable or metaphor. Or to ignore the other 200 books and the books written by the other apostles?

    3.) How are your proofs any different from every single other religion and there proofs? Or donít end up proving their view better?

    4.) Can you name some other countries on earth that teach creationism and their overall technological, social and educational status?

    5.) How do you feel about people like Ray Comfort. Who purposely misquote or out right lie about the contents or the supports of evolution? Does there behaviour not discredit your theory in the eyes of others?

    6.) How do you feel about others in your faith that do not agree with you?


    I promise for the purposes of this thread to assume everything you say is true and factual within reason even if I disagree with it. Others may not do the same but I invite them to listen to your logic.
    Last edited by Spector567; 02-06-2010 at 08:36 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canton Michigan
    Posts
    1,086

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    Itís only fair afterall. Those who agree with evolution have answered over a hundred of yours in the last year.

    1.) What are the major proofs behind creationism or ID? By proof I donít mean disproof of evolution because thatís only disproof of evolution, and is not supporting evidence for creationism.

    2.) How is it not become your personal opinion and choice to hold one part of the bible as literal and hold other parts as parable or metaphor. Or to ignore the other 200 books and the books written by the other apostles?

    3.) How are your proofs any different from every single other religion and there proofs? Or donít end up proving their view better?

    4.) Can you name some other countries on earth that teach creationism and their overall technological, social and educational status?

    5.) How do you feel about people like Ray Comfort. Who purposely misquote or out right lie about the contents or the supports of evolution? Does there behaviour not discredit your theory in the eyes of others?

    6.) How do you feel about others in your faith that do not agree with you?


    I promise for the purposes of this thread to assume everything you say is true and factual within reason even if I disagree with it. Others may not do the same but I invite them to listen to your logic.

    I will answer because I believe your sincere in asking Spector.

    1) By proof I assume you ask this as regard what science requires as "proof", you and I know that will never work as they exist on different levels. However, I have simply stated my reason for belief this way: If I was to walk in a subdivision and see this awesome house, sitting there ready to be occupied, it has everything needed to sustain a confortable life and I ask, who built it? Another man next to me says, no one...best we can figure is that it just happened, we feel that an explosion happened and this was the result of that explosion. Or there was a puddle on the property and we think lightning hit the puddle and this came to be...Iam not buying it. He may say well we have never seen anyone around here since it was here, so it there could not be a builder or designer, because where is he? Iam not so sure that is logical.

    As far a man is concerned, the bible said "each according to its kind", thats what I see with my eyes. Yes, have men evolved, sure, but we still men. Can animals adapt to different conditions, yes....some provide the spotted moth as such...but it still a moth. Man is unique, different than all other animals. I consider the fossil evidence, some say it is concrete, yet I have quoted other scientist who say it is lacking in proof.

    I am not trying to "proof" this to anyone else but myself.

    2) That is always going to be open to disagreement as far a parables and such. Each one though has a story or lession to learn from, I guess that is what matters to me, what did I learn from it, has it made me a better person.
    There are many things in the Bible I don't understand, but I don't disregard the entire book because of that. Just trying to learn from it. Doojie on here has opened my eyes to the legal standing that many of Pauls writings, I learn what I can.
    Its no different when some choose to accept the big bang therory, and others the primal soup therory, its a choice

    3. I don't belong to a religion. I don't pay much attention to how they compare. My relationship with God is personal, it does not matter to me if others see it different than me.

    4. I don't know about other countries, never looked it up. It would have no bearing on how I personally feel. I never will need government to think for me.

    5. Don't know about Ray Comfort. People will always lie to push their own agenda. Does the fact politicians lie mean they are all liars? If a cop abuses his power does it mean all cops are bad? Have not scientist lied about some of there research to accomplish there papers or agendas?

    6. I only concern myself with my faith, I don't concern myself with others and how they decide to view matters. I don't believe in a burning hell, yet others on here condemned me to hell. I don't concern myself over them, they are not responsible for me or my faith, not I over theirs. So we each will stand on our own beliefs and hopefully can respect others for theirs.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,424

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    I will answer because I believe your sincere in asking Spector.
    I am sincere in my thinking. I find that itís not the idea that is the important part but what is behind it. You canít convince people to do what you think they should but you can get them to at least look the right direction and think for themselves. I find alot of what you say somewhat factually incorrect but like I said Iím going to avoid facts for now and stick to ideas.

    1) By proof I assume you ask this as regard what science requires as "proof", you and I know that will never work as they exist on different levels. However, I have simply stated my reason for belief this way: If I was to walk in a subdivision and see this awesome house, sitting there ready to be occupied, it has everything needed to sustain a confortable life and I ask, who built it? Another man next to me says, no one...best we can figure is that it just happened, we feel that an explosion happened and this was the result of that explosion. Or there was a puddle on the property and we think lightning hit the puddle and this came to be...Iam not buying it. He may say well we have never seen anyone around here since it was here, so it there could not be a builder or designer, because where is he? Iam not so sure that is logical.

    As far a man is concerned, the bible said "each according to its kind", thats what I see with my eyes. Yes, have men evolved, sure, but we still men. Can animals adapt to different conditions, yes....some provide the spotted moth as such...but it still a moth. Man is unique, different than all other animals. I consider the fossil evidence, some say it is concrete, yet I have quoted other scientist who say it is lacking in proof.
    Interesting thought however, you are taking a much less studied form of proof over another

    I am not trying to "proof" this to anyone else but myself.[/quote] This makes you unique among creationists. I would assume that you do not support the bible or creationism/I.D. being taught in school as well?

    2) That is always going to be open to disagreement as far a parables and such. Each one though has a story or lession to learn from, I guess that is what matters to me, what did I learn from it, has it made me a better person.
    There are many things in the Bible I don't understand, but I don't disregard the entire book because of that. Just trying to learn from it. Doojie on here has opened my eyes to the legal standing that many of Pauls writings, I learn what I can.
    interesting thought I find the new testament to often hold personal truth. Not factual but personal.
    Its no different when some choose to accept the big bang therory, and others the primal soup therory, its a choice
    =) quick point so you donít repeat this elsewhere. Those theories did not take place at the same time and it has never been a choice of one or the other. Big bang = formation of the universe and planets. Primal soup = formation of early life on those planets. They happen one after the other not at the same time.

    3. I don't belong to a religion. I don't pay much attention to how they compare. My relationship with God is personal, it does not matter to me if others see it different than me.
    Good point.

    4. I don't know about other countries, never looked it up. It would have no bearing on how I personally feel. I never will need government to think for me.
    good point. However, please do search it up. Information that a person grabs personally is more valuable to them. I asked this question to highlight why so many people are so dead set against creationism being placed back in the classroom or governments supporting it. I think youíd find the results interesting. It wonít affect your personal belief because you base it on other things. However, it will help you understand others.

    5. Don't know about Ray Comfort. People will always lie to push their own agenda. Does the fact politicians lie mean they are all liars? If a cop abuses his power does it mean all cops are bad? Have not scientist lied about some of there research to accomplish there papers or agendas?
    I hope your not suggesting a fair is fair argument. If one lies itís ok for the other too. Those scientists did delegitimize there research. Just look at cold fusion research, itís haunted by the mistake of others. Also I largely suspect the scientists your talking about were a) in error because new information came out later, causing the idea to be revised. You can still be wrong even if you make the right choices from the information available. Or b) were caught by other scientists.

    As to ray comfort. Iíd be interested in what you think of him without my picking of sources. However, keep in mind he is a very smooth talker and sales man. He writes and sells a book every six months and felt it was all right to provide a forward to the Origient of species with out right lies and character assignations while at the same time removing the portions from the book that would disagree with what he said. Agree with what you want just donít lie about the other side.

    6. I only concern myself with my faith, I don't concern myself with others and how they decide to view matters. I don't believe in a burning hell, yet others on here condemned me to hell. I don't concern myself over them, they are not responsible for me or my faith, not I over theirs. So we each will stand on our own beliefs and hopefully can respect others for theirs.
    I commend you for that.



    I confess. I was not expecting you to respond. Or rather I was hoping for a creationist(tm) to respond. I wanted to see how far they would get. However, I think I made the first question too hard for them. You are capable of reconciling your faith without pushing it on others. They are not and I wanted to see if they were capable of even attempting to answer questions on creationism. However, I donít think any of them would be able to get past question one. Technically you didnít either but you at least realized there was no proof, only your personal faith.

    However, I hope you do realize that much of what you have said is not 100% correct and you are mixing scientific theories up. So while your arguments do make sense to you. They don't make sense to others who are more versed in the ideas and it becomes distracting for them.
    Last edited by Spector567; 02-07-2010 at 08:05 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canton Michigan
    Posts
    1,086

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I am sincere in my thinking. I find that itís not the idea that is the important part but what is behind it. You canít convince people to do what you think they should but you can get them to at least look the right direction and think for themselves. I find alot of what you say somewhat factually incorrect but like I said Iím going to avoid facts for now and stick to ideas.

    Interesting thought however, you are taking a much less studied form of proof over another

    I am not trying to "proof" this to anyone else but myself.
    This makes you unique among creationists. I would assume that you do not support the bible or creationism/I.D. being taught in school as well?

    interesting thought I find the new testament to often hold personal truth. Not factual but personal.
    =) quick point so you donít repeat this elsewhere. Those theories did not take place at the same time and it has never been a choice of one or the other. Big bang = formation of the universe and planets. Primal soup = formation of early life on those planets. They happen one after the other not at the same time.

    Good point.

    good point. However, please do search it up. Information that a person grabs personally is more valuable to them. I asked this question to highlight why so many people are so dead set against creationism being placed back in the classroom or governments supporting it. I think youíd find the results interesting. It wonít affect your personal belief because you base it on other things. However, it will help you understand others.

    I hope your not suggesting a fair is fair argument. If one lies itís ok for the other too. Those scientists did delegitimize there research. Just look at cold fusion research, itís haunted by the mistake of others. Also I largely suspect the scientists your talking about were a) in error because new information came out later, causing the idea to be revised. You can still be wrong even if you make the right choices from the information available. Or b) were caught by other scientists.

    As to ray comfort. Iíd be interested in what you think of him without my picking of sources. However, keep in mind he is a very smooth talker and sales man. He writes and sells a book every six months and felt it was all right to provide a forward to the Origient of species with out right lies and character assignations while at the same time removing the portions from the book that would disagree with what he said. Agree with what you want just donít lie about the other side.

    I commend you for that.



    I confess. I was not expecting you to respond. Or rather I was hoping for a creationist(tm) to respond. I wanted to see how far they would get. However, I think I made the first question too hard for them. You are capable of reconciling your faith without pushing it on others. They are not and I wanted to see if they were capable of even attempting to answer questions on creationism. However, I donít think any of them would be able to get past question one. Technically you didnít either but you at least realized there was no proof, only your personal faith.

    However, I hope you do realize that much of what you have said is not 100% correct and you are mixing scientific theories up. So while your arguments do make sense to you. They don't make sense to others who are more versed in the ideas and it becomes distracting for them.[/QUOTE]

    Well it was a lot of questions...lol I know I do not have all the answers, nor do I have any background in science at all. Iam sure I mixed up a few of the scientfic points, as Logicallyyours always points out to me. I really have no desire to get into pissing matches on here with anyone, just some friendly discussions. But it just seems that is impossible to do with some.
    As to your question regarding teaching it in school. It doesn't bother me at all that creation is not taught in schools.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    553

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    I don't need to prove Creationism its a religious belief and by its very nature then a matter not for science. How can there be Creationism when all the evidence points to evolution? Answer> Its a mystery of God and I don't need to try and figure it out but just believe it to be true.

    And no I don't think Creationism or ID (same thing) should be taught in public schools with Evolutions its not science its faith.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,424

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers View Post
    I don't need to prove Creationism its a religious belief and by its very nature then a matter not for science. How can there be Creationism when all the evidence points to evolution? Answer> Its a mystery of God and I don't need to try and figure it out but just believe it to be true.

    And no I don't think Creationism or ID (same thing) should be taught in public schools with Evolutions its not science its faith.
    Exactly. Now what about all those people who do think it should be taught. That create musems on noahs ark. That generally like to muddy the waters with media campaigns.

    there is a growing trend in the united states for this and I fear It will hit my country if the states continues on this path.

    However, none of those people who think that creationism should be taught and schools and is scientific can answer any of the questions above. They either havn't bothered to look or conviently ignore the answer.

    I honestly was hoping that they would try.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    553

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Well private museums are private ministries I think they are wasting their time and money but they have that right its protected by the 1st Amendment.

    I can't speak for their motivations save ID was court proven to be religious as in CREATIONISM so its case closed for me. At most I would say it could be in a good high end comparison religion class in High School or critical thinking type classes. Not as a science though.

    I found that they are not good at taking criticism or debate with scientists or those that frankly think we should just accept the account and make it a matter of our religion.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    nc
    Posts
    236

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    Itís only fair afterall. Those who agree with evolution have answered over a hundred of yours in the last year.

    1.) What are the major proofs behind creationism or ID? By proof I donít mean disproof of evolution because thatís only disproof of evolution, and is not supporting evidence for creationism.
    Spector, have you not seen all the debate on this site between "creationist" and "atheistic science guys"? Man, there's been all kinds of questions asked and answered about creationism. Instead of accusing people of not answering, try listening to see if they are answering.

    What are the major proofs behind creationism? Are you kidding? That's been discussed over and over. Creationist don't believe this incredible design could have "just happened". The proof is all of what you see. The chance of life just "happening" is somewhere in the area of 120 decimal places. We're not talking about 1 in trillions for the odds, but far, far greater.

    Evolution itself does not disprove God, seems evolution stole the idea from the book of Genesis anyway, the bible has been around alot longer than the "theory of evolution", yet the theory of evolution strongly mirrors the Genesis account, how do you account for that?

    Creationism also accounts for what makes things alive. As far as I know science doesn't explain where life comes from, how it made the jump, self consciousness, ect. Creationism teaches it is spirit that makes things alive, a life force that is unseen by the physical eye.

    According to science, life has been around for millions of years, if there were no designer to keep it safe, then how do you explain random luck keeping life safe for all this time?


    2.) How is it not become your personal opinion and choice to hold one part of the bible as literal and hold other parts as parable or metaphor. Or to ignore the other 200 books and the books written by the other apostles?
    Funny things is metaphors are used in every field everyday. Like in science when one says the sun rises, or the sun sets, or thousands of other such metaphors science uses when explaining their "theories".

    Words themselves are metaphors. So if metaphors disprove the bible, or creationism, it proves science wrong too.

    Also, looks like the creator thought the bible is long enough as it is, and plus, what is there goes together so well. All these Authors from all these different generations and it flows so seamlessly, kinda like creation, so orderly. Guess if the creator could create all we see, he could definitely guide man to assemble a book the way he wanted it.


    3.) How are your proofs any different from every single other religion and there proofs? Or donít end up proving their view better?
    The proofs the bible claims as proof of a creator is creation itself (Ps 19). All of what you see leads you to believe there is a creator. Now, what books teach the truth about the creator? you would have to read and see what those books say about him, and see if it is consistent with what can be known.


    4.) Can you name some other countries on earth that teach creationism and their overall technological, social and educational status?
    Yes, all of them. They all teach creationism, maybe not in school. Most countries separate government and religion, and since government runs schools, it makes sense that they would not teach what they consider religion. But creationism is no more religion than science is. Maybe one day the government will realize this. To believe there is a creator doesn't mean you have to "religionize" it. Seems the government is guilty of the same fault those of science say religionist are guilty of, shoving only what they believe down one's throat. I believe in schools the evidence should be looked at and openly discussed whether it just happened on it's own, or does it point that a designer must have designed it.


    5.) How do you feel about people like Ray Comfort. Who purposely misquote or out right lie about the contents or the supports of evolution? Does there behaviour not discredit your theory in the eyes of others?
    No more than those who in science distort the truth for their own purposes also. You have people saying the bible says this and the bible says that, but they no more understand the bible then maybe ray comfort understands science. I would say there is the same percentage of corrupt scientist as their are corrupt creationist.

    6.) How do you feel about others in your faith that do not agree with you?
    Everything you bring up can be applied to scientist also. Some scientist are civil about disagreements, some are not. Same with people who believe the evidence points to a intelligent creator instead of a chance creation, some are civil, some are not.

    Now, you can quit thinking that creationist are unfair and don't answer questions.

    Now, maybe you can answer one question yourself since you seem to be sure there is no intelligent creating force. What evidence have you seen that leads you to this conclusion?
    whack it:judges:

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    Spector, have you not seen all the debate on this site between "creationist" and "atheistic science guys"? Man, there's been all kinds of questions asked and answered about creationism. Instead of accusing people of not answering, try listening to see if they are answering.

    What are the major proofs behind creationism? Are you kidding? That's been discussed over and over. Creationist don't believe this incredible design could have "just happened". The proof is all of what you see. The chance of life just "happening" is somewhere in the area of 120 decimal places. We're not talking about 1 in trillions for the odds, but far, far greater.

    Evolution itself does not disprove God, seems evolution stole the idea from the book of Genesis anyway, the bible has been around alot longer than the "theory of evolution", yet the theory of evolution strongly mirrors the Genesis account, how do you account for that?

    Creationism also accounts for what makes things alive. As far as I know science doesn't explain where life comes from, how it made the jump, self consciousness, ect. Creationism teaches it is spirit that makes things alive, a life force that is unseen by the physical eye.

    According to science, life has been around for millions of years, if there were no designer to keep it safe, then how do you explain random luck keeping life safe for all this time?




    Funny things is metaphors are used in every field everyday. Like in science when one says the sun rises, or the sun sets, or thousands of other such metaphors science uses when explaining their "theories".

    Words themselves are metaphors. So if metaphors disprove the bible, or creationism, it proves science wrong too.

    Also, looks like the creator thought the bible is long enough as it is, and plus, what is there goes together so well. All these Authors from all these different generations and it flows so seamlessly, kinda like creation, so orderly. Guess if the creator could create all we see, he could definitely guide man to assemble a book the way he wanted it.




    The proofs the bible claims as proof of a creator is creation itself (Ps 19). All of what you see leads you to believe there is a creator. Now, what books teach the truth about the creator? you would have to read and see what those books say about him, and see if it is consistent with what can be known.




    Yes, all of them. They all teach creationism, maybe not in school. Most countries separate government and religion, and since government runs schools, it makes sense that they would not teach what they consider religion. But creationism is no more religion than science is. Maybe one day the government will realize this. To believe there is a creator doesn't mean you have to "religionize" it. Seems the government is guilty of the same fault those of science say religionist are guilty of, shoving only what they believe down one's throat. I believe in schools the evidence should be looked at and openly discussed whether it just happened on it's own, or does it point that a designer must have designed it.




    No more than those who in science distort the truth for their own purposes also. You have people saying the bible says this and the bible says that, but they no more understand the bible then maybe ray comfort understands science. I would say there is the same percentage of corrupt scientist as their are corrupt creationist.



    Everything you bring up can be applied to scientist also. Some scientist are civil about disagreements, some are not. Same with people who believe the evidence points to a intelligent creator instead of a chance creation, some are civil, some are not.

    Now, you can quit thinking that creationist are unfair and don't answer questions.

    Now, maybe you can answer one question yourself since you seem to be sure there is no intelligent creating force. What evidence have you seen that leads you to this conclusion?
    The creationist's main premise seems to be, "Everything was BUILT and INSTALLED with the best interests of Humanity in The Creator's thoughts," while the evolutionists main premise seems to be, "We evolved WITHIN a System in accordance with Natural laws already in place." This is how I see the debate. I still believe in a Creator, since a Creation suggests a Creator, I just don't believe in a Creator that gets personally involved in my life. My idea of a Creator leaves my life in my hands...and butts out of it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    nc
    Posts
    236

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    The creationist's main premise seems to be, "Everything was BUILT and INSTALLED with the best interests of Humanity in The Creator's thoughts," while the evolutionists main premise seems to be, "We evolved WITHIN a System in accordance with Natural laws already in place." This is how I see the debate. I still believe in a Creator, since a Creation suggests a Creator, I just don't believe in a Creator that gets personally involved in my life. My idea of a Creator leaves my life in my hands...and butts out of it.

    Just curious, do you butt out of what you have created's life? I mean, like if you have children, you don't leave their life in their hands do you? Or a garden, do you start it and leave it alone? I have to look at the creator in the same way, why create something and not care for it, or leave it to survive on it's own?
    whack it:judges:

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by tig View Post
    Just curious, do you butt out of what you have created's life? I mean, like if you have children, you don't leave their life in their hands do you? Or a garden, do you start it and leave it alone? I have to look at the creator in the same way, why create something and not care for it, or leave it to survive on it's own?
    Yes, in fact, I do butt out of my children's lives. The oldest is 38, second is 35, and the youngest is 23. We have always been close, but not too close. We believe in a self-lived life... not your most popular way to live, but they are ready for anything that life throws at them. I was always taught that self-reliance was the best way to live, and I and my wife have passed this on to my children. As far as I'm concerned, self-reliance is the most important gift that a father and mother can give to their children. If you have self-reliance, you will create your own life as you see fit, knowing that you are the only person responsible for its outcome. Both Thoreau, in his book "Walden Pond" and Emerson, through his self-reliance essay, wrote about self-reliance, and its importance to real life. I think that an impersonal God may be doing this with us. After all, you can still love someone and not interfere in their life. They learn much more about themselves if they take responsibility for their own lives, without someone meddling in it. I think its the higher way to live. That would make this existence a learning experience for us all.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,424

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    Yes, in fact, I do butt out of my children's lives. The oldest is 38, second is 35, and the youngest is 23. We have always been close, but not too close. We believe in a self-lived life... not your most popular way to live, but they are ready for anything that life throws at them. I was always taught that self-reliance was the best way to live, and I and my wife have passed this on to my children. As far as I'm concerned, self-reliance is the most important gift that a father and mother can give to their children. If you have self-reliance, you will create your own life as you see fit, knowing that you are the only person responsible for its outcome. Both Thoreau, in his book "Walden Pond" and Emerson, through his self-reliance essay, wrote about self-reliance, and its importance to real life. I think that an impersonal God may be doing this with us. After all, you can still love someone and not interfere in their life. They learn much more about themselves if they take responsibility for their own lives, without someone meddling in it. I think its the higher way to live. That would make this existence a learning experience for us all.
    I feel pretty much the same way. If I have your discription correct your a diest. (not a religion just a discription of god) God set the rules maybe a nudge but doesn't interfear.

    I'd rather live a good life for the sake of others and assume there is no reward. Assume if I do something bad i'm not automatically forgiven.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I feel pretty much the same way. If I have your discription correct your a diest. (not a religion just a discription of god) God set the rules maybe a nudge but doesn't interfear.

    I'd rather live a good life for the sake of others and assume there is no reward. Assume if I do something bad i'm not automatically forgiven.
    Thats a good discription of my views, Spector. Yes, there is something to Shakespear's line, "Loving pure, and chaste from afar." Rescuing was never much help, in the long run. It only robs people of their chance for a victory. This way, I believe, helps those who choose this for their life, grow on the inside much more than the average person. Becoming independent and detached in my observation, is the ultimate life experience, for one day, we will face the ultimate detachment moment; where we will give everything away.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    Itís only fair afterall. Those who agree with evolution have answered over a hundred of yours in the last year.

    1.) What are the major proofs behind creationism or ID? By proof I donít mean disproof of evolution because thatís only disproof of evolution, and is not supporting evidence for creationism.
    My answer: Evolution doesn;t try to explain how it all got here from the get-go. It merely says "given the evidence we see around us, and basing conclusions on that evidence, it seems conclusive to say that things evolved".

    Evolution isn't actually about creation. It's about the study of various forms of life as we see them today. If that threatens a creationist, tough. Do I believe in God? Of course.

    2.)
    How is it not become your personal opinion and choice to hold one part of the bible as literal and hold other parts as parable or metaphor. Or to ignore the other 200 books and the books written by the other apostles?
    For me, the central position of the bible is stated in Romans 8:7, 8:29-30, and 9:16-22. Assuming logical consistency among these statements, the natural mind cannot be subjet to God, so all human attempts to organize according to "God's will" would result in near infinite ideas about God, as we see today. The statement is verified by the results.

    Second, Romans 8:29-30, which totally cancels anyt decision procedure by which humans could logically organize according to God;s will, since God already knows who hs children are. Let's say there's no truth to Romans 8:29-30, so that even God doesn;t know what we will choose. Well, since the choices keep mushrooming toward infinity, it seems obvious thatr God himself would have no idea as to the outcome.

    BUT, if God actually does know who his children are, then it doesn;t really matter what we choose to believe or not believe, because we can;t change anything anyway.

    Okay, let's use the same argument and say there is no God. Therefore, it doesn't really matter ht choices you make, since you;re not going to change things anyway. Wait a minute, didn't I already say that?
    Whaddaya know, truth by correspondence!

    3.)
    How are your proofs any different from every single other religion and there proofs? Or donít end up proving their view better?
    Because there can be no decision procedure to get from "here" to "God", as both the bible and actual evidence points out, it is only logical to conclude that there are no religious organizations that can actually represent God, which, BTW, is also consistent with Godel's theorem in regard to truth.

    4.)
    Can you name some other countries on earth that teach creationism and their overall technological, social and educational status?
    How about the Taliban? No wait... uh, al qeda? No wait...Koran? Give me time, I'll figure it out.

    5.)
    How do you feel about people like Ray Comfort. Who purposely misquote or out right lie about the contents or the supports of evolution? Does there behaviour not discredit your theory in the eyes of others?
    He's an idiot.

    6.)
    How do you feel about others in your faith that do not agree with you?
    Since there exists no decision procedure by which we may identify with god any closer than anyone else, their as right as I am, which is to say not at all.


    I promise for the purposes of this thread to assume everything you say is true and factual within reason even if I disagree with it. Others may not do the same but I invite them to listen to your logic.[/quote]

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    34

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    1.) What are the major proofs behind creationism or ID?
    2.) How is it not become your personal opinion and choice to hold one part of the bible as literal and hold other parts as parable or metaphor.
    3.) How are your proofs any different from every single other religion and there proofs? Or donít end up proving their view better?
    4.) Can you name some other countries on earth that teach creationism and their overall technological, social and educational status?
    5.) How do you feel about people like Ray Comfort. Who purposely misquote or out right lie about the contents or the supports of evolution? Does there behaviour not discredit your theory in the eyes of others?
    6.) How do you feel about others in your faith that do not agree with you?
    1. The laws of science do not allow for the creation or energy or matter. So there was a Creator because science doesn't allow for anything else. Plus intelligence and information only come from greater sources. Rocks don't have smart kids. (That's not a literal comment.)
    2. A literal methodology give the best intent of the writer. Just exactly like it's easier for me to take your questions literally and not consider them metaphor for something else.
    3. I have two way interaction with God. Perhaps others do as well.
    4. Is Evolution a correct theory of Origins?

    5. Young Earth believers are misguided.
    6. I was there myself.
    Last edited by skywriteing; 03-29-2012 at 08:17 AM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5

    Re: A few Questions for Creationists

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    Itís only fair afterall. Those who agree with evolution have answered over a hundred of yours in the last year.

    1.) What are the major proofs behind creationism or ID? By proof I donít mean disproof of evolution because thatís only disproof of evolution, and is not supporting evidence for creationism.

    2.) How is it not become your personal opinion and choice to hold one part of the bible as literal and hold other parts as parable or metaphor. Or to ignore the other 200 books and the books written by the other apostles?

    3.) How are your proofs any different from every single other religion and there proofs? Or donít end up proving their view better?

    4.) Can you name some other countries on earth that teach creationism and their overall technological, social and educational status?

    5.) How do you feel about people like Ray Comfort. Who purposely misquote or out right lie about the contents or the supports of evolution? Does there behaviour not discredit your theory in the eyes of others?

    6.) How do you feel about others in your faith that do not agree with you?


    I promise for the purposes of this thread to assume everything you say is true and factual within reason even if I disagree with it. Others may not do the same but I invite them to listen to your logic.


    1. Disproving evolution is an extremely important thing. I consider evolution to be a religion and at the moment science has been hijacked by this religion. I don't think it's healthy for science to teach an incorrect theory as fact and preach that we owe all our knowledge to the belief in this story.
    That being said, to me it just makes sense that there has to be a creator of some sort. There is no known mechanism by which life can magically appear from nothing. We are not animals like any other. The universe seems designed for us and the closer you get to mankind the more things are tailormade for us. Our bodies are filled with genetic code and blueprints that originally had to come from somewhere. It is the word of intelligence.

    2.
    You have to read the bible and try to understand it otherwise there's no point debating what parts of it mean. You can only understand the bible by reading it all and getting the sense of what it's saying. Then you'll be able to decide which parts have literal meaning and which have figurative meaning. Atheists just love quoting the bible out of context and shining a spotlight on certain parts and verses because they have no idea what they mean and never will.
    If you study the bible you will see why people learn to trust it and you will also eventually realize why other books or writings were not included in it.
    You have to understand that everyone has beliefs and opinions but the bottom line is you go with your gut. If you have a sharp mind you will see the evidence for the bible. (check this out for instance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Ylt1pBMm8)

    3.
    If you want to get to the truth then you have to look for it and don't be afraid to toss anything that doesn't meet your standards. Start learning what various religions believe and decide for yourself if they sound like a group that has a sound basis for their beliefs. If the bible is accurate and the road is narrow and few are finding it then you've got your work cut out for you. But perhaps the problem isn't that people aren't smart enough or aren't lucky enough to find it. Perhaps the majority of people just don't care and can't be bothered (including the majority of people who are already in religions that preach confusing and incorrect teachings).

    4. I don't believe a lot can be detirmined by studying creationism vs economic status and geography etc. The U.S. is one of the most religious countries in the world and they're the largest superpower in history. Very technologically advanced but most of their technology comes from buying science and scientists from other countries. Einstein and Nikola Tesla are responsible for most of what you see when you look out the window in Las Vegas. Both foreign born and both were fervent believers in a creator despite what Darwin was telling them.
    Atheistic and evolutionary beliefs have been at the root of some of the most horrific and unhumane wars of the last century.

    5. I don't know who Ray Comfort is. Evolution is such a gigantic mess of research and papers that it is utterly impossible to discredit it. For every paper that claims one thing you'll find 100 more that claim another thing. Many of the headlines you read every day on yahoo and cnn regarding evolution are completely disproven or abandoned within a few years and are never heard of again. Evolution is 99% hype! It's a fraudulent theory that has been completely drowned in a sea of speculative research and false claims. It's impossible to even get at the facts in order to dispute them.
    Virtually anything a creationist says about any aspect of evolutionary teachings can be rebuffed with claims that the creationist is misrepresenting the theory. That's because every evolutionary theory is watered down to the point where it's meaningless and then made bulletproof by creating alternative and conflicting theories. There is no time in which the theory of evolution hits dry land and can be scrutinized.

    6.
    I think that most people believe what they want to believe. They search out evidence to back up what they want to believe in their heart. That includes evolutionists, atheists, creationists. Some people follow the evidence wherever it leads but not many.
    I can't really judge the beliefs of others. All I can do is make sure I have a sound basis for my own beliefs and try to avoid getting caught up in the propoganda and irrationality of others.



    I personally think it is the nature of man to believe in things and to follow a leader. We need to be told what to do (not a popular belief in todays world.). In the absence of God we're stuck with imperfect men as leaders and instigators. Eevn when we rebel against society we're still following something or someone. The hippie movement, goth, tattoos, piercings, death metal. None of this shows independant thinking. In fact quite the opposite.. Right now people believe in religions, science, evolution, atheism, aliens, money, Illuminati, etc. And there is another group who just don't profess belief in anything. This is a belief in itself. I believe in the quote "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything".
    If you empty your head of all belief or faith then that space will eventually be filled with something whether you like it or not. Perhaps nazism, perhaps Eugenics, perhaps cheese whiz. Who knows.
    I always wondered what would happen if you took a group of casual believers in evolution and a group of christians (real believers) and performed some sort of milgram experiment on them.
    Religious people have done some pretty evil things in the name of God over the centuries but are they more likely to stand up for someone being victimized and think outside the box then someone who believes he has no higher power to answer too and whatever happens happens?

Similar Threads

  1. Got questions about GDI?
    By SITIPI Enterprises in forum Internet Scams
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 12-09-2014, 06:28 AM
  2. Creationists, let's talk
    By tomInAustin in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 04:21 AM
  3. Why do people laugh at creationists?
    By Yeah Well Fine Then in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-04-2012, 05:12 PM
  4. Some Questions Please...
    By Evolution_1972 in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-03-2008, 01:49 PM
  5. Creationists Seek Foothold in Europe
    By Dawud in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-11-2008, 06:42 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •