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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    38

    tax exempt organizations

    I realize I am just a newbie on this site,and not nearly as educated,well read, or articulate as many of you seem to be. Please bare with me as I try to express some of my confusion and frustration at what appears to be a very corrupt tax system. Major organized religions get exemption from this robbery,and use it as a tool to launder money towards their more organized gaols of purchasing land,and investments. I for one am sic of seeing these "charitable " organizations (some of who have taken a vow of poverty),squirrel away assets they have gained under the guise of doing "gods" work. The trillions of dollars in assets accumilated by religous orders who claim to help the poor makes me want to gag. Religion is BIG business and it needs to be taxed.as well as many of these "foundations" being created for "tax" purposes. Do I feel sorry for steven spielburg losing millions in madoffs ponzi sceme? not one bit! Whoever is investing "charitable" funds for the purpose of profit and gain is all about greed and avoiding taxes. Charities are supposed to give and help,not be concerned with profit.
    The laws created for corporate tax seem to be out of whack as well,considering all the loopholes of where you register your business and what banking system you funnel your money too. Curious as to how much money our mega money makers actually pay in tax? Anyone out there know how much bill gates,warren buffet or oprah winfrey has paid in taxes in the last decade. Just curious..would love to know.
    Anyhow..sorry for ranting, but if I get a vote..I say" if you're gonna tax a poor girl like me..you need to tax all of these rich religous organizatons,"charitable" foundations,and major money makers as well.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    7,767

    Re: tax exempt organizations

    only people pay taxes. that's you. if you raise the tax on the corporation, you pay it. the corporation will raise prices until they have the same profit as they had before the tax.

    one reason there is a corporate tax is so crooked people can't avoid personal taxes by forming a corporation. another reason for corporate taxes is regulation. for instance, the corporation is given tax credit for hiring people that are on welfare.

    tax exempt corporations, like churches, don't deliver a product or service for a fee. they rely on donations. if you donate to a charitable organization to feed starving children, you want the government to confiscate half of your money and use it to pay for a new jet for nancy pelosi?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    38

    Re: tax exempt organizations

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    only people pay taxes. that's you. if you raise the tax on the corporation, you pay it. the corporation will raise prices until they have the same profit as they had before the tax.

    one reason there is a corporate tax is so crooked people can't avoid personal taxes by forming a corporation. another reason for corporate taxes is regulation. for instance, the corporation is given tax credit for hiring people that are on welfare.

    tax exempt corporations, like churches, don't deliver a product or service for a fee. they rely on donations. if you donate to a charitable organization to feed starving children, you want the government to confiscate half of your money and use it to pay for a new jet for nancy pelosi?
    Basically what you are saying is that because corporations are all about profit,they have the right to tax exemptions,since the worker they hire for peanuts pays 1/3 of his salary for the new airplane. They obviously need the workers to make their profit,but yet they are doing the the government a "favor" by taking these poor souls off welfare. Sounds like a big rigged up game for powerful and rich to me.The rich get rewarded with more money,and the lowly worker gets to keep his slavery intact.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: tax exempt organizations

    Quote Originally Posted by sheye View Post
    Basically what you are saying is that because corporations are all about profit,they have the right to tax exemptions,since the worker they hire for peanuts pays 1/3 of his salary for the new airplane. They obviously need the workers to make their profit,but yet they are doing the the government a "favor" by taking these poor souls off welfare. Sounds like a big rigged up game for powerful and rich to me.The rich get rewarded with more money,and the lowly worker gets to keep his slavery intact.
    I agree with you. Understrand that corporations as we know them today came from an interpretation of Supreme Court decisions that a corporation is a "legal person" protected by the 14th amendment.

    The problem, after that principle was recognized, is that the courts said "we can't make laws to protect people from corporations, since corporation are legal persons under the 14th amendment".

    Notice the 14th copies the 5th in saying "no person shall be derpived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law".

    A corporation, therefore, was given protection of "due process".

    But here's the problem which the courts fail to tell us. "Due process" comes from common law, which pre-dates our Constitution. Therefore, in order for a corporation to be a legal person subject to due process, the corporation would have to be subject to aset of laws existing prior to the comnstitution, which is common law. Justice Joseph Story verifies this in his commentaries when he defines due process as coming from magna Carta, and meaning "lawful judgement of peers, or by law of the land', which Story defines as common law pre-existing the Constitution.

    IOW, your right to due process is a right which existed before the Constitution, and the VConstitution cannot limit your rights in any way(9th amendment).

    The corporation, created striclty by the power of the constitution as a legal person, did not pre-exist the constitution, since it was the Constitution that legalized the US government.

    men are created by God(Declaration of Independence), while coreporations are created as legal persons by the state, therefore being subject to "We the People" who created the state.

    A tax exempt religion is simply a corporation approved by your government under the same legal privileges making it "Caesar" and not "God".

    This means that, according to their rendering of Jesus command to "render to Caesar that which is Caesar's", they make all contributions subject to "caesar's" control.

    But if all men arecreated equal, with inalienable rights, there is no caesar in the US government. WE are "Caesar".

    Also, you will notice that the paper we calll legal tender says "In God We Trust" on every single piece.

    That would make the legal tender an establishment of religion, and the federal government violates its own 1st amendment by "respecting an establishment of religion", niot only respeciting it, but forcing us to pay all debts in that form, while claiming to represent God!

    Your federal government is a scam.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    553

    Re: tax exempt organizations

    Actually a point was made earlier I have to keep a religious worship center apart from legitimate activities that would be tax-exempt due to the nature of the activity.

    Say the Holy Moley Church has a sanctuary and the Holey Moley Homeless Project and the Holy Moley K-12 School as parts of their ministry. A not-for-profit secular institution in each categor can be tax exempt so I see no issue. But why not tax the holy worship center and those parts of the property not used for such noble service the homeless project and the school being excluded?

    As I see it a church or temple or mosque on their own don't DO anything save religious services for their own people and if they do other things - those should be incorporated apart from the worship center.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    350

    Re: tax exempt organizations

    it seems there are a lot of people confused by this issue.

    Regulation is a required control issue, this is true and via that regulation the groups (religious/ngo etc) have to meet and be held accounatable via established criteria and have probity to effectively keep their status within that financial system.

    This does not really have anything to do with "goodness". It is an application and ongoing "declaration of income" process that ensures organisations whether they be religious based or not are meeting the criteria of the legislation.

    By the government actively "supporting" (via lowered rates or exemptions) these Charities ngo's etc the government reaps a twofold benefit. It's need to support struggling families /people is lowered and larger Organisations are provided a incentive to support /establish charitable projects.

    The comunity is also encouraged to support the weak/poor/helpless via tax claims against registered donations to charitable institutions. This may be via myriad groups ie: private donations /contributions to Hospitals, the local Girl Guides or even recognised Religions. It is true some charitable groups are larger than others and have large incomes but it is also true that overheads are often unseen ( many cathedrals/churches are heritage listed and very expensive to upkeep) and all this is accepted as the government is quite happy for the public to donate to upkeep these buildings.

    Donations to specialised drives such as famine relief or shelters for the homeless are scrutinised very closely and the money raised from these specific drives have administration limits in each countries tax system to ensure the bulk of the money goes to those in need.

    In business this is quite often in the form of tax breaks ( different rules and criteria to charities and NGO's)to large employers or organisations that helps bring technology/skills to the particular country and my understanding is it encourages employers to build and concentrate workforces in that particular country.

    Business is business and the major corps/employers/manufacturers will go offshore if your goverment does not legislate incentives to employers to set up shop and operate there.

    As for the Chariy side of things;
    Unfortunately most tax systems generally allow for late returns and sometimes some false charities or false religions abuse this loophole and defraud the public (as did the fake religion that was the original ULC) for a few years before being held accountable and put out of business(they tend to spring up again under another guise though and ULC now has at least three seperate groups using the name). Evangelisim is riddled with this type of fraud.

    In the end those collecting or seeking the money or gifts are accountable by the law of the land and must comply or default.

    The good news is that Real Charities do exist and are a valuable part of any compassionate community, the real established Churches fall into this category. When all else fails the church will never turn you away, and as a medical professional I can vouch this is the truth.
    Our weakest, poorest and most needy almost always are constantly largely supported by the established church and not wholely by the administration of the country.

    Please do not let the shallow hearts of these other charletons pretending to be servants of God harden your heart against real charity and the small incentives our government offer to those who establish or support these.

    I hope this offers one man's point of veiw adequately.

    Merry Christmas to you and yours.
    Last edited by consolidation; 12-25-2009 at 01:00 AM.

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