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  1. #1
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    Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Scam.com was the first site I ever found when I started in MLM.

    I since have gone on to build my business and been successful. But man, I sometimes get frustrated as I do it most online, at this website.

    I've never seen more whiners ever in my life.

    People who speak and write intelligently, and yet they are just lying to themselves.

    People who say MLM does not work, even as I make money, and others make huge residual checks.

    Even as Amway does 9 billion dollars in sales worldwide, or how Wow Mobile is is partnered with AT&T and builds orphanages in Thailand with the profits their distributors bring in.

    It makes NO SENSE that companies profit off just lying to distributors.

    It is JUST sales people. GET OVER IT.

    All of you people who failed in MLM, here is the reason why you failed... because of YOU.

    You may had a bad company, you may had not a great product, but that is rare.

    As with any business, there is a dark side and underbelly to MLM. But to tell me there is no dark side to retail (Cough Walmart), financial (Cough Madoff), or ANY other industry on this planet is a total lie.

    And that statistic of 97% of people failing in MLM... guess what... MLM is a business and has a 2% better chance to succeed than the average business as that 99% failure rate for the first year.

    Also if you look at real estate agents, insurance agents, or ANY sales-related field you will find that statistic is pretty common.

    I felt like lashing out at this site becuase I see so many idiots who have "tried" mlm and now deny it legitimacy.

    Who tries a business?

    Seriously. Who goes into a business and thinks "Alright well this might work but probably not, I'm just going go in and fail and then complain about how bad the company is... cause obviously cannot be me cause I am so awesome."

    It just drives me nuts some of the arrogance I see in people who think they know the answers.

    Go to DSA.org, it's a government-armed branch.

    And get over it. Seriously. Find a new obsession.

    Now since the rant is over, hope you guys all have a good Christmas, and stop pumping negativity and do something constructive.


    To the top,
    -Gregory
    PS. I realize this wasn't a constructive post. I found you guys as I was doing some SEO on a keyword, and it reminded me when I first started how angry I was at Scam.com being full of liars and leading me astray for so long.

  2. #2
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post

    Go to DSA.org, it's a government-armed branch.
    Can you clarify this statement please


  3. #3
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    Nov 2007
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    4,265

    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post
    It is JUST sales people. GET OVER IT.
    it's just ridiculously priced products to feed the commissions upline. get over it. No.
    And that statistic of 97% of people failing in MLM... guess what... MLM is a business and has a 2% better chance to succeed than the average business as that 99% failure rate for the first year.
    hehehehehe. 99% fail in the first year? yeah, that's why you never eat at the same resteraunt twice, because they basically ALL fail according to that statistic. you never shop at the same place twice. Are business failure rates non zero. of course. 99%? Get a clue (not to mention A SOURCE).
    Also if you look at real estate agents, insurance agents, or ANY sales-related field you will find that statistic is pretty common.
    I know DOZENS of salesman. I know ONE that switched fields into something else. Does that PROVE anything? No. But you numbers dont jive. Not even close.

    It just drives me nuts some of the arrogance I see in people who think they know the answers.
    it drives us nuts when people like you post complete BS. 99% failure rate in business in the first year? the sad thing is you may actually believe that.
    Go to DSA.org, it's a government-armed branch.
    you may be competing for dumbest post of the year. DSA is the DIRECT SALES ASSOCIATION....A PRIVATE industry group. Nothing government about it whatsoever. WHoever told you that... go back and smack them for lying to you so egregiously and making you look like a fool.
    Last edited by calvinandhobbes; 12-10-2009 at 07:49 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Nearly Got Sucked In View Post
    Can you clarify this statement please
    I would love to hear this also. That's the funniest line of bullshit that I have heard on here in a while. Yet anti-MLMers are all liars. lol Arm of the government my ass.

  5. #5
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    The DSA (Direct Selling Association) was once an organization dedicated to advancing the interests of what were then legitimate direct selling companies like Fuller Brush, Tupperware, Cutco Cutlery, etc. But what has happened in recent decades could be illustrated by a farmer who has pigs and horses for sale. He gets more money for horses, so he attaches horse hairs on the buttocks of the pigs and marches them into the horse corral. Then he proclaims, "There, you see, they are no longer pigs, but horses because they are in the horse corral."
    Similarly, since multi-level sounded too much like a pyramid scheme, they coined the term "network marketing." Then, since it sounded even less pyramid-like, they sought to be called "direct selling" companies. So one-by-one they joined the Direct Selling Association and now boldly declare they are direct selling companies.
    1. Through the DSA, MLM promoters are working hard to define MLM as a form of legitimate direct selling.

    The MLM industry has virtually taken over the Direct Selling Association (DSA) and used it for intensive lobbying for anti-pyramid scheme laws which would exempt MLM's from prosecution as pyramid schemes, at the local, national, and international level. However, research conducted by Dr. Jon Taylor demonstrates that the highest loss rates of all pyramid schemes are product-based pyramid schemes, or recruiting MLM's. So the effect of the legislation is to make the worst pyramid schemes legal. What MLM promoters and the DSA fail to acknowledge is what legitimate direct selling is NOT – for example, an endless chain of recruiters recruiting recruiters, which they call distributors, but are in fact their primary customers – See quote by Douglas M. Brooks
    The Direct Selling Association (DSA), which is now dominated by the MLM industry and therefore promotes MLM’s agenda, defines direct selling as “the sale of a consumer product or service, person-to-person, away from a fixed retail location.” On the bases of this definition, MLM’s claim to be direct sales programs. But the definition fails to specify what legitimate direct sales programs are NOT.
    2. What legitimate direct sales programs do NOT do:
    • Recruit participants in an endless chain of participants recruiting more participants (as primary customers),
    • Specify advancement by recruitment, rather than by appointment,
    • Require or use powerful incentives for ongoing purchases in order to qualify for commissions and to advance in the scheme,
    • Pay overrides on more levels of managers than are functionally justified (most corporations have found the entire country can be covered in four levels of sales managers), and–
    • Offer excessive incentive to recruit, combined with inadequate incentive to sell products to bona fide customers. In nearly all MLM’s, there are few legitimate customers outside the network of “distributors.”
    For a chart comparing recruiting MLM's and legitimate direct selling, see "Does Multi-level Marketing Qualify as a Form of Direct Selling?" [PDF format] (This chart uses a 7-point checklist, but the same essential concepts as the "5 Red Flags.) If you have read other reports on this site, you may recognize the "5 Red Flags." Read the full report to the National White Collar Crime Center, entitled "The 5 RED FLAGS for Identifying Exploitive Product-based Pyramid Schemes, or Recruiting MLM’s" For more information on DSA-influenced bills put before state legislatures and the Congress, go to the web site for Pyramid Scheme Alert (PSA) at – http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/DSABill/DSAbill.html
    The Typical MLM is No More a Legitimate Direct Sales Opportunity than a Pig is a Horse. Read again "Does MLM Qualify as a Form of Legitimate Direct Selling? (above). Anyone who has read the above reports with an open mind will agree that the typical MLM is no more legitimate direct selling than a pig is a horse - no matter how much money is spent positioning it as a horse (below). And just because an MLM is a member of the DSA does not make it a direct sales company any more than marching a pig into a horse corral makes it a horse.
    The 5 Red Flags were selected on the basis of over six years of experiential and comparative research, along with input from the top experts in the field. They were then validated with actual data from MLM company financials, court records, etc.. Serious researchers will want to carefully review the grid that was used for the final selection of the 5 Red Flags. Download "Comparative Analysis of Direct Sales and other Legitimate Distribution Models with No-Product Pyramid Schemes and Recruiting MLMs, or Product-based Pyramid Schemes."
    3. The DSA has succeeded in weakening statutes against pyramid schemes in several states.

    They have done this to shield MLM's from prosecution as pyramid schemes, even though recent evidence proves that the most virulent and harmful chain selling schemes are product-based pyramid schemes. Read how the DSA duped nearly everyone in the 2006 Utah legislature SB182 passed in Utah, which is a hotbed of MLM activity.
    4. Sales figures supplied by the World Federation of Direct Selling Associations (WFDSA) show increasing losses by participants as MLM grows world wide.

    Karl-Heinz Kreiter has done an incredible job of showing how unprofitable direct selling is when the number of MLM participants is factored in - using statistics supplied by the WFDSA. They are condemned by their own numbers! Read the full report – "Outstanding unlimited growth potential for MLM?" at – http://www.mlm-beobachter.de/mlm/mlmwachstum_e.htm
    5. Legitimate direct selling, naked pyramid schemes, and gambling all beat MLM!

    You may not make much money, but you will lose little or no money in legitimate direct selling. Conversely, the rate of success for recruiting MLM's is abysmal. In fact, MLM makes gambling in Las Vegas look like a safe bet in comparison. Even clearly illegal no-product pyramid schemes do far better. See "Which Does the Greater Harm?" [PDF] for a comparison of loss rates of typical MLM's with direct selling, no-product pyramid schemes, and gambling.
    6. Are there no fair network marketing or "Retail MLM" programs?

    Fair and equitable distribution of income in compensation plans is virtually non-existent in MLM/network marketing. If such an MLM programs did exist, I would call it a "retail MLM". In a retail MLM, every participant can earn a decent income selling products without recruiting a large downline, and in fact the incentives would favor retailing over recruiting. Based on review of compensation plans of approximately 300 MLM programs and their resultant effects, I can say that an MLM would be hamless only to the degree it is not at all like a typical MLM - but more like a standard retail sales model. Read "Rules for Compensation Plans in MLM Programs to Prevent the Worst Abuses."

    The most likely candidates for a legitimate MLM, if such existed, are party plans, which allow a host to actually earn money for a party he/she sponsors. However, most eventually change their compensation plans to reward recruitment over retailing - probably because direct selling is no longer as attractive or competitive in a society with big box chain stores and internet shopping options. So they turn to chain selling of participants as primary customers.

    7. The DSA/MLM lobby fought meaningful disclosure in a "business opportunity rule" proposed by the FTC that would have limited any MLM'sability to deceive the public.

    The FTC recently invited public comments on a proposed business opportunity rule that would hopefully protect people from some of the worst business opportunity scams people complain about - mostly "pyramid marketing schemes." Since any honest and meaningful disclosure or other reasonable requirements would clip the wings of MLM recruiters, over 17,000 comment letters (including duplicates) were sent to the FTC protesting such rules. Most of these were form letters supplied by the DSA or its member forms. Read the comments submitted to the FTC by Dr. Jon Taylor of CAI, and then read his rebuttal of the comments by the DSA representative.
    Through aggressive lobbying (and likely political contributions and implied large groups of voters), the DSA/MLM lobby got over 80 congressman to sign on to a letter objecting to including MLM in the Rule. The FTC complied and proposed a Revised Rule exempting MLM from having to make such disclosures. So the business opportunities that most typify the reason for the rule was exempted in the Revised Proposed Rule!

    Gee, even YTB is a DSA member!
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 12-10-2009 at 08:05 PM.

  6. #6
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    Dec 2007
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post
    PS. I realize this wasn't a constructive post. I found you guys as I was doing some SEO on a keyword, and it reminded me when I first started how angry I was at Scam.com being full of liars and leading me astray for so long.
    I think that if you will read more threads, you will find the boasting from the MLMers to be a bit over the top, especially if you click on their links and nearly all of them now go to a dead site. The majority of the MLMs on here do not last. Go back a few pages and check it out.

    So do tell, which one are you so successful in?
    As of April23, 2010, I will no longer participate as a moderator or member of a site where posts and threads are removed unjustly by the ADMIN or a rogue mod.

  7. #7
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post
    PS. I realize this wasn't a constructive post.
    Constructive? Hell, it wasn't even truthful! ROTFL!
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 12-10-2009 at 08:33 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post
    And that statistic of 97% of people failing in MLM... guess what... MLM is a business and has a 2% better chance to succeed than the average business as that 99% failure rate for the first year.

    Also if you look at real estate agents, insurance agents, or ANY sales-related field you will find that statistic is pretty common.
    99%? Wow your upline must really hate traditional businesses. Sometimes I hear of recruiters spouting out numbers like 95%... sometimes 93%... and other days... 96%, but 99%?!?! LOL

    These high "traditional business failure rate" numbers are pulled out of MLM recruiters' asses on a daily basis. It's there to scare uneducated victims so they would be more willing to buy into the scheme.

    Recruiters are trained to manipulate people to fit their own needs and benefits, essentially taking advantage of others. This is most prevalent in borderline/illegal pyramid MLM's, among other cult-like behaviors. From the looks of it, you're in one of them.

    Anyway, where is your source for those figures hmm?

    Here's my source:
    http://sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf

    Right there on the SBA's website are the hard facts: last paragraph on the first page:

    "Seven out of ten new employer firms last at least two years"

    That means on average, 30% only fail in the first TWO years... NOT 99% in the first year. That's just a false fact implanted into your memory by your upline.

    So where is your source for that 99% figure hmm? I'm still waiting. In fact, we've all been waiting to see it for many years now...




    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post
    People who say MLM does not work, even as I make money, and others make huge residual checks.
    The fact that you're receiving big checks is believable and comes as no surprise. What WE want to know... is how many suckers did you have to take advantage of in order to do it? How many are at the bottom of your chain struggling to sucker in their first recruit.. calling every single person on their contact list and reading off of a premade script??

  9. #9
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Great post by the OP.

    Shows you what ''outsiders'' think of this place.

    Keep MLMing!!
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  10. #10
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post

    Keep MLMing!!
    Keep drinking Kool-Aid

  11. #11
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    Nov 2005
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    607

    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Great post by the OP.

    Shows you what ''outsiders'' think of this place.

    Keep MLMing!!
    Err,

    to be accurate, that would be:

    "Shows you what ONE ''outsider'' thinks of this place.

    Unless, of course, we are using "M.L.Mspeak" or "DOYLEspeak" where the opinion of the ONE will be presented as being the opinion of "many" or "all" or "most" people, depending on the circumstances.
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

  12. #12
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Great post by the OP.

    Shows you what ''outsiders'' think of this place.

    Keep MLMing!!
    You mean other scamming, lying MLM weasels such as yourself? Oh yeah......that's really valid and meaningful. lol

  13. #13
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    Dec 2009
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    LOL.

    Mostly at the second post.

    You guys crack the shit out of me.

    That post was mostly just me ranting and venting for no good reason. But the ridiculous replies made me laugh, so guess it had a second benefit.

    Ought oh!!!! Better rip this post up... cause I didn't put any sources... oh no!!!!

    By the way, that statistic is a commonality in business. In fact, most restaurants go out of business all the time.

    My father has loaned to many restraurants. Most of the restaurants you go to eat, those people are living on the edge of a knife just to survive.

    And other businesses usually don't see a profit till their 5th year. If they survive 4 years, that usually means they will be around and survived the biggest hurdles in business and got some momentum going.

    And in other sales you guys are ridiculous. My father is in real estate, and let me tell you, the conception of realtors being rich is pure bullshit.

    My father made it good cause he worked his ass off. Most of them are part-time realtors who are lucky to sell 1 house and have a full-time job doing something else.

    Finding a real estate agent who actually does what they preach and is full-time is rare.

    And this isn't so hard to see in most other sales either. Cars salesmen, furniture salesmen, they all are put on the same pedestal.

    The reason for failure? Because it is up to them to succeed, and most people don't grow enough to succeed or get good at the skills that will allow them to succeed in sales or business.

    And yes, by the way, all anti-MLMers are liars. Because that is a totally true statement lol.

    Oh and good call on DSA I meant to say FTC. FTC recognizes MLM.

    I really don't get you guys.

    A lot of MLM products are overpriced. But not all of them, to think so is to be a blind fool.

    What about SendOutCards?That is way cheaper than doing the same services with something like Hallmark.

    It's a huge retention tool with supreme value for salesmen who want to retain good relations with their clientele.

    Or things that Wow Mobile is doing offering pretty cheap cell phone plans for all sorts of phone without contracts.

    YTB offers good travel service that is often cheaper than Travelocity or traditional airline fares.

    And the list goes on.

    I don't think I've ever encountered so many ignorant and fierce battles for and against MLM than on scam.com

    You guys treat it like a religion.

    CONDEMN IT CAUSE WE SUCK AT IT!!

    lol It's ridiculous.

  14. #14
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post
    YTB offers good travel service that is often cheaper than Travelocity or traditional airline fares.
    This one assinine, ignorant statement by itself (let alone all your other false crazyass statements) proves what a lying sack of shit you are and that you have the credibility of a cold dog turd. How the hell can you even post such bullshit? Are you that stupid? Oh yeah.....you belong to an MLM......you ARE that stupid! ROTFL!
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 12-10-2009 at 10:36 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelfrink View Post
    Oh and good call on DSA I meant to say FTC. FTC recognizes MLM.
    You want to explain WTF this is supposed to mean in your tiny warped, kool aid drenched mind? I recognize more bullshit when I see it too. FTC recognizes MLM. lmao Do you have this crap printed out on little index cards from your upline or what?
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 12-10-2009 at 10:38 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Why Scam.Com is the Worse Place to Find Scams

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    Err,

    to be accurate, that would be:

    "Shows you what ONE ''outsider'' thinks of this place.

    Unless, of course, we are using "M.L.Mspeak" or "DOYLEspeak" where the opinion of the ONE will be presented as being the opinion of "many" or "all" or "most" people, depending on the circumstances.

    There are so many think the same but dont bother coming on here.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

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