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  1. #1
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    Greer slowed down.

    Deadly delay on Elm Street
    Sixty witnesses (ten police officers, seven Secret Service agents, thirty-eight spectators, two Presidential aides, one Senator, Governor Connally, and Jackie Kennedy) and the Zapruder film document Secret Service agent William R. Greer’s deceleration of the presidential limousine, as well as his two separate looks back at JFK during the assassination (Greer denied all of this to the War-ren Commission).16 By decelerating from an already slow 11.2 mph, Greer greatly endangered the President’s life, and, as even Gerald Posner admitted, Greer contributed greatly to the success of the assassination. When we consider that Greer disobeyed a direct order from his superior, Roy Kellerman, to get out of line before the fatal shot struck the President’s head, it is hard to give Agent Greer the benefit of the doubt. As ASAIC Roy H. Kellerman said: “Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn’t believe me.”17 Clearly, Greer was responsible, at fault, and felt remorse. In short, Greer had survivor’s guilt.
    A sampling of the sixty witnesses to Greer’s gross negligence:
    Houston Chronicle reporter Bo Byers (rode in White House Press Bus): Twice stated that the Presidential Limousine “almost came to a stop, a dead stop”; in fact, he has had nightmares about this.18
    Dallas Police Department (DPD) officer Earle Brown: “… The first I noticed the [JFK’s] car was when it stopped … after it made the turn and when the shots were fired, it stopped.”19
    DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Hargis (one of the four Presidential motorcyclistdown. I heard somebody say, ‘Get going.’ I felt blood hit me in the face and the Presidential car stopped almost immediately after that.”20
    Secret Service Agent John Ready (follow-up car): “… I heard what sounded like fire crackers going off from my post on the right front running board. The Presi-dent’s car slowed ….”21
    Texas Governor John Connally (rode in JFK’s limo and was himself a victim of the shooting): “… After the third shot, I heard Roy Kellerman tell the driver, ‘Bill, get out of line.’ And then I saw him move, and I assumed he was moving a button or something on the panel of the automobile, and he said ‘Get us to a hospital quick’ … at about this time, we began to pull out of the cavalcade, out of line.”22
    Dallas Morning News reporter Robert Baskin (rode in the National Press Pool Car): “… the motorcade ground to a halt.”23
    Dallas Morning News reporter Mary Woodward (Pillsworth): “… Instead of speed-ing up the car, the car came to a halt.” She saw the President’s car come to a halt after the first shot. Then, after hearing two more shots, close together, the car sped up. She spoke forcefully about the car almost coming to a stop and the lack of proper reaction by the Secret Service in 1993.24
    Alan Smith: “… the car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead … the car went about five feet and stopped.”25
    Ochus V. Campbell: After hearing shots, “… he then observed the car bearing President Kennedy to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene.”26
    Peggy Joyce Hawkins: She was on the front steps of the Texas School Book De-pository and “… estimated that the President’s car was less than fifty feet away from her when he was shot, that the car slowed down almost coming to a full stop.”27
    David Broeder: “… The President’s car paused momentarily, then on orders from a Secret Service agent, spurted ahead.”28
    Hugh Betzner: “… I looked down the street and I could see the President’s car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped … then the Presi-dent’s car sped on under the underpass.”29
    Bill Newman: After the fatal head shot, “… the car momentarily stopped and the driver seemed to have a radio or phone up to his ear and he seemed to be waiting on some word. Some Secret Service men reached into their car and came out with some sort of machine gun. Then the cars roared off …”; “I’ve maintained that they stopped. I still say they did.): “… At that time [immediately before the head shot] the Presidential car slowed.

  2. #2
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by theme View Post
    Deadly delay on Elm Street
    Sixty witnesses (ten police officers, seven Secret Service agents, thirty-eight spectators, two Presidential aides, one Senator, Governor Connally, and Jackie Kennedy) and the Zapruder film document Secret Service agent William R. Greer’s deceleration of the presidential limousine, as well as his two separate looks back at JFK during the assassination (Greer denied all of this to the War-ren Commission).16 By decelerating from an already slow 11.2 mph, Greer greatly endangered the President’s life, and, as even Gerald Posner admitted, Greer contributed greatly to the success of the assassination. When we consider that Greer disobeyed a direct order from his superior, Roy Kellerman, to get out of line before the fatal shot struck the President’s head, it is hard to give Agent Greer the benefit of the doubt. As ASAIC Roy H. Kellerman said: “Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn’t believe me.”17 Clearly, Greer was responsible, at fault, and felt remorse. In short, Greer had survivor’s guilt.
    A sampling of the sixty witnesses to Greer’s gross negligence:
    Houston Chronicle reporter Bo Byers (rode in White House Press Bus): Twice stated that the Presidential Limousine “almost came to a stop, a dead stop”; in fact, he has had nightmares about this.18
    Dallas Police Department (DPD) officer Earle Brown: “… The first I noticed the [JFK’s] car was when it stopped … after it made the turn and when the shots were fired, it stopped.”19
    DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Hargis (one of the four Presidential motorcyclistdown. I heard somebody say, ‘Get going.’ I felt blood hit me in the face and the Presidential car stopped almost immediately after that.”20
    Secret Service Agent John Ready (follow-up car): “… I heard what sounded like fire crackers going off from my post on the right front running board. The Presi-dent’s car slowed ….”21
    Texas Governor John Connally (rode in JFK’s limo and was himself a victim of the shooting): “… After the third shot, I heard Roy Kellerman tell the driver, ‘Bill, get out of line.’ And then I saw him move, and I assumed he was moving a button or something on the panel of the automobile, and he said ‘Get us to a hospital quick’ … at about this time, we began to pull out of the cavalcade, out of line.”22
    Dallas Morning News reporter Robert Baskin (rode in the National Press Pool Car): “… the motorcade ground to a halt.”23
    Dallas Morning News reporter Mary Woodward (Pillsworth): “… Instead of speed-ing up the car, the car came to a halt.” She saw the President’s car come to a halt after the first shot. Then, after hearing two more shots, close together, the car sped up. She spoke forcefully about the car almost coming to a stop and the lack of proper reaction by the Secret Service in 1993.24
    Alan Smith: “… the car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead … the car went about five feet and stopped.”25
    Ochus V. Campbell: After hearing shots, “… he then observed the car bearing President Kennedy to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene.”26
    Peggy Joyce Hawkins: She was on the front steps of the Texas School Book De-pository and “… estimated that the President’s car was less than fifty feet away from her when he was shot, that the car slowed down almost coming to a full stop.”27
    David Broeder: “… The President’s car paused momentarily, then on orders from a Secret Service agent, spurted ahead.”28
    Hugh Betzner: “… I looked down the street and I could see the President’s car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped … then the Presi-dent’s car sped on under the underpass.”29
    Bill Newman: After the fatal head shot, “… the car momentarily stopped and the driver seemed to have a radio or phone up to his ear and he seemed to be waiting on some word. Some Secret Service men reached into their car and came out with some sort of machine gun. Then the cars roared off …”; “I’ve maintained that they stopped. I still say they did.): “… At that time [immediately before the head shot] the Presidential car slowed.
    No one ever denied it slowed down.

    What you fail to grasp is that this proves nothing.

  3. #3
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    No one ever denied it slowed down.

    What you fail to grasp is that this proves nothing.
    At least you agree now that the limousine slowed down. Now how about the other things that "mean nothing"?


    There are at least 15 items that point to complicity in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, from the absence of protective military presence to a lack of coverage of open windows, to motorcycles out of position, to Secret Service agents failing to ride on the Presidential limousine, to the vehicles arranged in an improper sequence, to the utilization of an improper motorcade route, to the driver bringing the vehicle to a halt after bullets began to be fired, to the almost total lack of response by Secret Service agents, to the driver washing out the back seat with a bucket and sponge at Parkland Hospital, to the car being dismantled and rebuilt (on LBJs orders), to the driver giving false testimony to the Warren Commission, to the windshields being switched, to the autopsy photographs being taken into custody before they were developed, and more.

  4. #4
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by theme View Post
    At least you agree now that the limousine slowed down. Now how about the other things that "mean nothing"?


    There are at least 15 items that point to complicity in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, from the absence of protective military presence to a lack of coverage of open windows, to motorcycles out of position, to Secret Service agents failing to ride on the Presidential limousine, to the vehicles arranged in an improper sequence, to the utilization of an improper motorcade route, to the driver bringing the vehicle to a halt after bullets began to be fired, to the almost total lack of response by Secret Service agents, to the driver washing out the back seat with a bucket and sponge at Parkland Hospital, to the car being dismantled and rebuilt (on LBJs orders), to the driver giving false testimony to the Warren Commission, to the windshields being switched, to the autopsy photographs being taken into custody before they were developed, and more.
    There is nothing which points to complicity by the Secret Service. Negligence perhaps but not complicity.

    One more time as you ignore the facts. There is no standard procedure for military protection to augment the secret service and there never has been.

    The secret service CANNOT and does not cover every open window in a large city which the president may visits there are simply too many such buildings with windows.

    The repositioning of the agents and motorcycles was done at the orders of KENNEDY and that has been pointed out several times. Yes even the secret service has to obey his orders and many presidents have ignored the secret service such as Carter and bush sr.


    It was not an improper route it was the only route through the city to reach the destination. even the Secret Service cannot rebuild streets and roads to suit them. The route to The trade mart through Dallas from Love field was dictated by the way the city streets are laid out and that is true again in any city. whether the SS likes it or not.

    He never brought the vehicle to a halt , why do you keep saying so?

    I suppose because you have no evidence so all you cn do is repeat the questions.

    It is proven there is no evidence of another shooter besides Oswald.

    So we have to keep finding inconsistencies such as Secret Service agents failing in a moment of truth ( as though they are not humans ). And then asking why? of course there are always many explanations but conspiracy nit wits will insist that only a conspiracy ex0plains them.

  5. #5
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    They were humans who did not act when they were supposed to. They were bodyguards guarding the President of the United States, and to say that they "were slow to react" is an insult to the intelligence of us all. You may be stupid enough to be so naive, but most people are not.

    8) Joachim Joesten, How Kennedy was Killed(1968)

    The conspiracy to kill President Kennedy sprang from a gradually developing consensus of (mostly, though not exclusively) Texas political figures. Big Businessmen, right-wing extremists and key elements of the Dallas power elite, with the ClA in it at all levels as the connecting and cementing link.
    Three levels of operation can be distinguished. At the top or control level were men consumed by ambition and the thirst for power; at the intermediate or command level, ClA men and high police officers guided the course of events. And at the lowest or operative level, experienced marksmen, recruited from the ranks of the Minutemen and Cuban adventurers, trained and equipped by the ClA, carried out the assassination.
    Apart from the obvious overall purpose of ending the Kennedy Administration and opening a new era, prime factors in the conspiracy were the desire to effect a radical change in foreign policy (in particular towards Cuba and in Vietnam) and to preserve specific Texas interests such as the tax privileges enjoyed by the oil industry.
    All these aims were attained. Cuba was further isolated through the establishment, with the help of the ClA, of military dictatorships throughout Latin America. The war in Vietnam - which Kennedy had meant to liquidate at the earliest possible moment - was escalated, step by step, into the senseless mass slaughter in progress at the end of 1967. And the oil industry has never had it so good.

  6. #6
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by theme View Post
    They were humans who did not act when they were supposed to. They were bodyguards guarding the President of the United States, and to say that they "were slow to react" is an insult to the intelligence of us all. You may be stupid enough to be so naive, but most people are not.

    8) Joachim Joesten, How Kennedy was Killed(1968)

    The conspiracy to kill President Kennedy sprang from a gradually developing consensus of (mostly, though not exclusively) Texas political figures. Big Businessmen, right-wing extremists and key elements of the Dallas power elite, with the ClA in it at all levels as the connecting and cementing link.
    Three levels of operation can be distinguished. At the top or control level were men consumed by ambition and the thirst for power; at the intermediate or command level, ClA men and high police officers guided the course of events. And at the lowest or operative level, experienced marksmen, recruited from the ranks of the Minutemen and Cuban adventurers, trained and equipped by the ClA, carried out the assassination.
    Apart from the obvious overall purpose of ending the Kennedy Administration and opening a new era, prime factors in the conspiracy were the desire to effect a radical change in foreign policy (in particular towards Cuba and in Vietnam) and to preserve specific Texas interests such as the tax privileges enjoyed by the oil industry.
    All these aims were attained. Cuba was further isolated through the establishment, with the help of the ClA, of military dictatorships throughout Latin America. The war in Vietnam - which Kennedy had meant to liquidate at the earliest possible moment - was escalated, step by step, into the senseless mass slaughter in progress at the end of 1967. And the oil industry has never had it so good.
    Joesten is stating opinion nothing more.

    And it is only your opinion that the secret service cannot fail and are above human error.

    This makes you the naive one.

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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    Joesten is stating opinion nothing more.

    And it is only your opinion that the secret service cannot fail and are above human error.

    This makes you the naive one.
    Of course, if these assumptions had any legs....this would be real news. But.......
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by theme View Post
    At least you agree now that the limousine slowed down. Now how about the other things that "mean nothing"?


    There are at least 15 items that point to complicity in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, from the absence of protective military presence to a lack of coverage of open windows, to motorcycles out of position, to Secret Service agents failing to ride on the Presidential limousine, to the vehicles arranged in an improper sequence, to the utilization of an improper motorcade route, to the driver bringing the vehicle to a halt after bullets began to be fired, to the almost total lack of response by Secret Service agents, to the driver washing out the back seat with a bucket and sponge at Parkland Hospital, to the car being dismantled and rebuilt (on LBJs orders), to the driver giving false testimony to the Warren Commission, to the windshields being switched, to the autopsy photographs being taken into custody before they were developed, and more.
    Sorry, but that's a non sequitur. The car did slow down...AFTER the shot...which neither proves or disproves the rest of your nutter idea.

    I think would have made more sense, and a much easier shot, if the car had slowed down prior to all shots. Now that makes sense.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Sorry, but that's a non sequitur. The car did slow down...AFTER the shot...which neither proves or disproves the rest of your nutter idea.

    I think would have made more sense, and a much easier shot, if the car had slowed down prior to all shots. Now that makes sense.
    The car was at a near stop when the fatal shot was fired.


    You are trying to defend those who killed the POTUS with a bunch of double talk and fancy words.

    This makes you either an idiot or an accessory after the fact.

    Which is still treason.


    So which is it? Are you simply an idiot or are you purposely covering up the coup d etat?


    You know , in ancient China slow slicing was the method for killing the King. In England you would have been drawn and quartered.


    Yet, here, you smart off to those who call a spade a spade.

    Those who cover this will be brought to justice since those responsible are likely dead.

    ( except GWH Bush) who was in Dealy Plaza and was in the CIA at that time.
    Last edited by theme; 06-13-2010 at 06:20 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    You are trying to defend those who killed the POTUS with a bunch of double talk and fancy words.
    No, you idiot....what I am exposing is the fact that, the car slowed down does not put a gun in Greer's hand nor does it mean that Greer had anything to do with Kennedy's assassination.

    You wanna play Junior Detective and then complain when you get smacked down, and rightfully so, for making claiming facts without evidence.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    No, you idiot....what I am exposing is the fact that, the car slowed down does not put a gun in Greer's hand nor does it mean that Greer had anything to do with Kennedy's assassination.

    You wanna play Junior Detective and then complain when you get smacked down, and rightfully so, for making claiming facts without evidence.

    I never said Greer fired the fatal head shot. He facilitated the fatal shot, however, which makes him part of the team that killed John Kennedy.


    Pay attention. While I don't believe at this time, that Greer fired the fatal shot, that theory makes more sense than the SBT. Fools like you only believe it because it is the official version.


    There is ample evidence that Greer slowed down to a near halt prior to the fatal shot to his temple.

    Understand my position now? And that position is not even in dispute by the other side. How could it be? Too many witnesses state that the limousine slowed to a near halt, then sped away after the frontal shot.


    So it is you are ignoring that evidence.

    Get off your high horse once and for all.

    Greerdidit writes:

    "DESPITE YEARS OF TRAINING TO REACT INSTANTANEOUSLY TO ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS, AND A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING AMONG THE PROTECTIVE SERVICE THAT DALLAS WAS HOSTILE, AND THE MULTIPLE THREATS PRECEDING JFK'S TRIP, AND MULTIPLE GUNSHOTS WHIZZING AROUND THEM IN DEALEY PLAZA, ROY KELLERMAN AND WILLIAM GREER SLOW THE LIMO TO A CRAWL AND JUST SIT AND WATCH THE PRESIDENT UNTIL THEY ARE SURE HE IS DEAD."

    Last edited by theme; 06-14-2010 at 05:19 AM.

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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    The fact that Greer slowed down in now way proves Greer was part of any conspiracy. You have not proved and are not able to prove that Greer slowed down to facilitate a better targer. You cannot and have proved motive or a link to anyone.

    Complete fail.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    No one said anything about "proving."

    You are the one who fails-as a human being for letting those who caused Kennedy's death go scott free.


    It does not need to be proven that Greer, Kellerman and the whole Dallas detail neglected their sworn duty to protect the POTUS from all enemies, foreign and domestic. It is obvious by their inaction.

    In this case the enemies were from within - domestic.

    You don't sit in the seat with your finger up your ass when you are a Secret Service Agent riding with the POTUS.

    ( and look back at the dying president - twice in the case of Greer)

    While the rest of the United States Secret Service Agents in Halfback made no moves either - in fact an agent was called back after he moved to help. This is not denied; reason given for calling back the agent moving to help JFK - "it would have been too late anyway!"
    Last edited by theme; 06-21-2010 at 03:43 AM.

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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Could it be that they were just unprepared and were not expecting anything out of the ordinary?...and that they were caught totally off guard?

    That's a much more logical and supported idea than your nutter theory that everyone in Dealy Plaza that day, with the exception of JFK, was in on the assassination.

    And yes, if you want to talk about responsibility...yes, they would be guilty. But, there is NO EVIDENCE that supports or documents ANY AGENTS INVOLVEMENT OR PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF AN ASSASSINATION PLAN. NONE.
    Last edited by LogicallyYours; 06-21-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Could it be that they were just unprepared and were not expecting anything out of the ordinary?...and that they were caught totally off guard?

    That's a much more logical and supported idea than your nutter theory that everyone in Dealy Plaza that day, with the exception of JFK, was in on the assassination.

    And yes, if you want to talk about responsibility...yes, they would be guilty. But, there is NO EVIDENCE that supports or documents ANY AGENTS INVOLVEMENT OR PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF AN ASSASSINATION PLAN. NONE.

    FAIL: They prepare for these things months in advance - things went fine in other recent trips and that is why the records were destroyed.

    FAIL: Yes, Dallas was an exception; again why the records were destroyed. Most, but not all agents were in on it , or directed by someone who was.

    FAIL: I previously mentioned Mens Rea; too big a word for you? Would you expect any on the Agents to admit what they did? No. I thought so. So their plan was inaction. Play dumb, incompetent, slow to react.
    Sorry, the whole lot of them would not be "slow to react."

    Johnson's men were not.

    A man was on top of Johnson immediately, as Kellerman should have been.

    That was his job. He was a United States Secret Service Agent.

    Not a potted plant.

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    Re: Greer slowed down.

    FAIL: Yes, Dallas was an exception; again why the records were destroyed. Most, but not all agents were in on it , or directed by someone who was.
    Prove it. Witness, testimony, informants. You lack facts. You just think you know something...but you cannot prove a thing or present an evidence...just conjecture.

    Complete fail.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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