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  1. #1

    IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    I took the IFFL challenge last year, and I am still waiting for these two simple questions to be answered.

    1) How come a rock solid business needs to pay 40% consistently for the money it borrows?

    2) Why paying inducements to recruit people to dilute a business advantage is a good business practice.

    Anyone?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    15

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    1) That is the price they pay to retain ownership and CONTROL. Banks and venture capital interests want control and ownership of you. If you, as a business person, believes they can control the success of a business better than an installed board of directors you want to retain that status.

    Maybe you think control is over-rated. I know a lot of guys with nagging wives who would beg to differ.

    2) Diluting or growing? You are acting on a presumption and it is incorrect.

    Satisfied?.......of course not!...you never will be.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    212

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Targa2
    1) That is the price they pay to retain ownership and CONTROL. Banks and venture capital interests want control and ownership of you. If you, as a business person, believes they can control the success of a business better than an installed board of directors you want to retain that status.
    what a complete crock of rubbish. No company needs to pay 40% for capital - unless they are in a complete freefall financially and have to pay off Big Vinnie or get their legs broken.

    You are out of your mind - and out of your league - if you think any company that is actually a real company would pay out interested at roughly 8X prime when they could merely pop down to their local checks r us and get a much better interest rate.

    It has nothing to do with control - banks are not after 'control' they are after returns and any bank that could get double digit returns on a "rock solid" company would be beating the doors down.


    Maybe you think control is over-rated. I know a lot of guys with nagging wives who would beg to differ.
    Oh really? I doubt that you know one person with a nagging wife - I think even this little assertion is just something you made up

    2) Diluting or growing? You are acting on a presumption and it is incorrect.

    Satisfied?.......of course not!...you never will be.
    Well as you did not even come close to answering the question - I suspect because you know so little about finance and business you actually cannot answer the question - I doubt that he or she would be satisfied.

    It would appear that your preferred method of "answering" is to invent complete rubbish and post it.

  4. #4

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Targa:I know the subterfuge works on those who are successfully recruited, that much is apparent.

    1) But you did not answer the question because "control" doesn't cut it. Any business lucrative enough to pay 40% will not need to borrow money for long if at all, and if it does there are plenty of cash flow lenders who do not ask for control simply because there is cash flow, are you trying to say that merendon et al are not flowing cash?

    2) "Growing" in this context would only be a good thing if merendon et al had infinite growth potential. Is that what you are saying?

    So far you have failed the iffl challenge, non-sequitors do not qualify as answers and your attempt at bluster, 'wives' yada yada is pathetic.

    Care to try again?

  5. #5

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    bump for truth

    c'mon targa,,,,, surely you have more to add

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    22

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Unfortunately, these guys are still operating. I have a really tough time feeling sorry for people that lose money is a con like this, as there are enough warning signs out there to tell people to stay away.
    Bad news seems to follow Milo everywhere he goes, hmmmm......I wonder why. It must be that the securities commissions in EVERY jurisdiction they operate have it out for him. It must be because he is smarter than they are, and can find loopholes in the law in order to make profit for his followers (Or is the profit for Milo,hmmmm....).

    I personally know several people with money there and they are in such denial it's hard to believe. They've invested in companies that were presented to them, and these companies now have no capital, as it has all been stripped out using the shell game between the companies that Milo and his buddies control.

    As for the comments from Targa above, anyone dumb enough to believe that is probably dumb enough to pay $2,700 for a membership into this exclusive organization.

    I run a financing company, and I've never had a client willing to pay 40% for financing. In fact, if I had someone that was willing to pay 40%, I wouldn't deal with them, as that would tell me enough about the state of their business to stay away from it. That would tell me that they were desperate for money, and that's not a good business to be in.


    These magic investments that pay ridiculous rates of return are not legit, get your heads out of the sand and put them to work. I don't care if they are "Off-shore" companies that don't pay any tax, or whatever story the "Structurists" are spewing these days, it ain't going to happen.
    Sure it may happen in the short term, but eventually these pyramids all crumble. good luck trying to find your money in all of the rubble.

  7. #7

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Scammsuck:

    I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who fall for this as well,,,, but,,, i know one personally and i have seen them employ their finely crafted hooks,,, in the end it boils down to,,, karma,,, for all

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    I recently (last 5 months) have been attending/re-attending IFFL meetings. I decided to join, but have not yet put my own money in. They will let you manage a small funded portfolio (without putting any of your money in) for up to a year to see how it goes and if you want out, they will keep the pricipal and split the interest with you. That would more than make up for the fee to join the "information club".
    I'm still trying to do my own due-diligence and this is part of it. I haven't come across anyone who has been unhappy and no one sems to be hiding behind any curtains as you can meet all involved and they'll put you into contact with others who have joined either as new members or have been using the pricipals for a few years now. It seems to me that a scam such as this would want as little co-mingling of 'victims' as possible and wouldn't have sooo many people involved in the business to split the "spoils" with.
    I wish someone would post with a bad experience or mor edefinitive info. Even the documents of "cease and desist" orders are mostly about selling securities and the tricky verbiage around that. Doesn't look like any complaints of ripping investors off in the documents.
    However, I still keep thinking, "if it's too good to be true....."

  9. #9

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Kgirl, my experience is just like yours. I have 5 friends who have been investing with IFFL for years now, and they have all done very well. Not just on paper, as some of them have chosen cash flow investments and been receiving money. And, like you, I have been encouraged to come and meet other investors, visit the head office, go to the mines and/or businesses if I want, etc. I am hard pressed to understand how this can be a shell game when I can see the businesses in operation. I am also hard pressed to believe it is all lies when there is no attempt whatsoever to keep secrets, as far as I can tell.

    For the super-informed cynics here, who think that you and I are in 'denial' and too stupid to see what is going on, let me just say that through my somewhat unorthodox investments I have managed to retire at 55, own several pieces of property and am, in general, doing really well. Guess it is a good thing I'm in denial.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    My advice: DON'T take the challenge. Take your money and run. Take your loved ones and run. I know from the INSIDE. This is serious stuff. It is all a massive scam. If your LUCKY you'll only ONLY wind up broke.

    Arsenic in Humble.

  11. #11

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    showgirl,,,, interesting,,,i'm very curious to hear about "can see the businesses in operation" what have you seen?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    63

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    My 85 year old parents invested $50k in the IFFL recently. I (their son) was horrified to learn this, and undertook to learn everything I could about it. I had a conference call with my father and his “structurist”, which went the full 15 rounds, after which he called and offered my father his money back. Haven’t received it yet but we are hopeful.

    Here is what I gathered from our discussion. If my suspicions are correct, this may go down as one of the biggest investment scams in Canadian history. Maybe this is a Ponzi and maybe it isn’t. But the red flags are certainly there in spades. Investors would do well to consider carefully.

    The Institute for Financial Learning has raised approximately $300 MILLION, much of it from pensioners like my father, and from generally hopeful but financially illiterate people. They recommend their members borrow whatever they can and invest it all in their strategies.

    The IFFL purports to be a neutral institute dispensing generic investment advice. This is absolutely false. They HAVE to claim this because they are not registered as investment advisors, and are under court order in several provinces and states not to sell, promote, or trade in securities of any kind.

    When someone becomes a member they are given a book showing 4 investment opportunities. Members assume these investments are ARMS-LENGTH independent companies that have been somehow checked out or pre-approved by the IFFL. THIS IS FALSE. What members are not told is that these companies are in fact owned or controlled by Milo Brost, the head of the IFFL. Miraculously, every one of the “generic” investment strategies he recommends leads directly to an investment in HIS OWN COMPANIES!

    What members ARE told is that these companies pay a particularly high rate of return. There’s a bunch of razzle-dazzle international intrigue and sizzle thrown in, but that is all they really ever learn about the company they invest in. The IFFL, in its capacity as investment trainers, fails to provide financial statements for these companies, and never suggests to their members that it might be important to even consider financial statements. The company’s financial profitability (or lack thereof), its debt load, its lack of independence from the IFFL, the company’s ownership, and other relevant factors are never considered. There is no discussion of this information itself, or why it might be important to have an independent third party review, verify or audit this information to prove its reliability.

    Now I ask you – if you were going to lend money to a company or a person, would you not want proof they had the CASHFLOW to repay the interest and principal, and the COLLATERAL (a strong balance sheet, plenty of cash and other assets that could be quickly turned into cash, not too much debt)? The IFFL responds thusly – They look surprised and explain that NO ONE has ever asked for that information before, but if you really want to know all that “stuff”, you will need to ask the company directly. Maybe the company will give it to you, and maybe they won’t. The IFFL simply dispenses generic strategy, you see, and so has no responsibility to provide any evidence for their claims. The IFFL hides behind a thin veil that it is the members making the specific investment decisions, and the IFFL does not recommend anything but generic strategy.

    So in the absence of reliable, verifiable, independent third party information about the company, what do the members really rely upon? The IFFL’s response is simple: “It works; so don’t question it. Talk to our many happy investors who have been receiving either statements or monthly cash for years now.” In short, put your brains on the shelf, don’t ask for evidence, and wait for your check. I submit to you that this is a recipe for disaster.

    Summary of recipe:
    Students go to school to learn investment strategies.
    Professor teaches strategy, and includes in his textbook four companies that appear to meet students' goals.
    Professor does not tell students that the companies are owned by the Professor’s wife, daughter, sister and first cousin.
    Professor shows students some previous students who are doing well with this plan.
    Student invests in professor’s wife’s company.
    Student asks professor for further financial information about the company, including cash flow, debt, profitability, risk.
    Professor looks surprised; says why would you want to look behind the curtain - that's where the wizard lives. Tells student to take their request to the company’s owners, he is just a professor teaching general investment strategies and didn’t have anything to do with selecting the company.
    Professor washes his hands, goes to teach next investment class.

    I haven't covered the character of the individuals at the IFFL. Suffice it to say they are questionable, standing accused (but not yet convicted) by the Alberta Securities Commission of mismanagement, lying under oath, and potential fraud. Don't take my word for this, go straight to the ASC website. Let's not rush to judgement here, but simply ask: Would you buy a used car from these people?

    As I said, perhaps this is a Ponzi and perhaps not. But the red flags are certainly there in spades. Are you prepared to ignore them all and risk your financial future?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnipeg Worrier
    What members are not told is that these companies are in fact owned or controlled by Milo Brost, the head of the IFFL. Miraculously, every one of the “generic” investment strategies he recommends leads directly to an investment in HIS OWN COMPANIES!
    Hey Winnipeg - I think I know this guy! How many Milo Brost's could there be - in fact, his son worked for me, while he was in high school, in Calgary - he went on to work for his dad in some investment and insurance business. Could it be? I think it's more than likely. How much money are your parents out? If I can help - I'm all yours....Last I heard they lived in Monteray (neighborhood in Calgary - very nice). I'll find whatever I can.
    Last edited by linda49; 09-16-2006 at 04:00 AM.

  14. #14

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Winnipeg Worrier:

    Sorry to hear about your parents,,,, have you had any luck on the return of their funds? I hope so,,, good luck.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    63

    IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    Yes, received the money back, with interest.

    Interesting story though. They said it would take 30 days to get the money back. When, as an investor, I began demanding to see their audited financials, the money was wired in 3 days, not 30. With a note that, no, they would not be sending their financials.

    In a later conversation with company officials, they finally admitted they DO NOT HAVE their financial information audited. Though they are not technically required to do so as a private company, it is yet another red flag.

    Reader beware!

    Winnipeg Worrier

  16. #16

    Re: IFFL: Take the IFFL Challenge

    That is excellent news,,,,, and further proof that factual details regarding the"investment opportunities" really do not exist,,,

    I suspect the refund was a small price to pay to ensure the absence of negative press,,,, thus protecting the stability of the 'structure',,,,

    karma for all

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