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Thread: Illusions

  1. #1
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    Illusions

    Since joining this forum, I've noted that there is a wide diversity of opinions, some curiously flexible, some uncompromisingly rigid, some spiritual, some secular, some biblical, some anti-biblical..etc.

    It sorta put me in mind of this optical illusion, that some of you have surely already seen, and the analogies that might be drawn.

    Attachment 8775

    The illusion is that the A and B squares are different colors. When in fact they are the same.

    Any normal human immediately says, "Nah...no way man...they are different." But after a simple analysis, you find that they are the same.

    So anyway, I drew some analogies from this exercise....dealing with illusions and/or delusions.

    The scientific mind might say that this is a perfect example of how people can be deceived and deluded into a spiritual belief based on the illusion of a fairy tale god, or gods, but through closer analysis, you will plainly see the discrepancies and the truth.

    The spiritual mind might say that this is a perfect example of how science takes some key facts and findings, then paints an illusion from those facts...but through close analysis, you will plainly see the discrepancies and the truth.

    There is also the train of thought that one square is spirituality, and the other is science. In the illusion, they look different. But that is just an illusion. In reality, they are the same.

    Anyway...those are three examples of possible opinions, or analogies. I thought it would be cool if you could develop your own analogy along these lines that best describes your personal thinking.

    Of course, if this causes a battle...I would like to offer my apologies in advance. I am really just looking for enlightenment toward "who we are".

  2. #2
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    Re: Illusions

    [quote=sparques;815476]
    The illusion is that the A and B squares are different colors. When in fact they are the same.

    The scientific mind might say that this is a perfect example of how people can be deceived and deluded into a spiritual belief based on the illusion of a fairy tale god, or gods, but through closer analysis, you will plainly see the discrepancies and the truth.


    You merely demonstrate what I've been saying all along, and what the bible itself says, especially in the New testament. It is impossible for the human mind to know truth in any single, complete and consistent context.

    To nauseate people still further, we can simply refer to Godel's theorem again. In any consistent axiomatic formulation of number theory, there exists undecidable propositions. Not just a few, but an infinity of undecidable propositions.

    Put simply, there is no single system, no neural net, no logical, rational, finite process by which all truth may be contained in one package.

    To that, we may draw the parallel statement in Romans 8:7, the carnal, or natural mind is enmity against god and cannot be subject to His laws.

    From both statements, we may conclude that any attempt to define truth, either as God or as truth itself, will result in an infinity of propositions as to what God or truth is.

    No matter how formally you try to define it, no matter how strictly you pursue it, the result will be an infinity of undecidable propositions, either of truth, or of God as truth.

    Even in attempting to define reality itself we end up with the idea of "many Worlds", an infinity of universes which emerge as a result of every decision we make, in which we split infinitely into different beings with differing destinies.

    No decision procedure known to the human brain can navigate us to truth in a single, complete and consistent package.

    Which leads us inevitably to the statement of Jesus regarding the 'end time" in Matthew 24:23. Since Jesus warned that "many shall come in my name, and shall deceive many", and since the natural mind is enmity against God and simply cannot reconcile truth into one package, the only logical choice one could make in regard to either truth or God is to follow one's own choices and needs in regard to truth, which is precisely what Jesus said in Mathew 24:23.

    ANY OTHER ATTEMPT merely adds to the confusion of religions.

  3. #3

    Re: Illusions

    Bible was made by humans and not by god.
    People who do believe can never prove that there is a god.
    Just because you have faith in something that does not mean what you believe is true.

    I just do not trust people 3,000 years ago

    Lack of knownledge can breed misunderstandings
    Knownledge itself can effect how you see things in the world.
    let say you took a person from 3,000 years ago and put him/her into the year 2009 how would that person reaction be?
    That person would be scary at what he/she sees
    He would call the cars monsters and who knowns what he would say about tall buildings he sees.

    How about throught plague was spread by vampires and that is a lie
    they throught because lack of understand

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ass-grave.html

    A SKELETON exhumed from a grave in Venice is being claimed as the first known example of the "vampires" widely referred to in contemporary documents.

    Matteo Borrini of the University of Florence in Italy found the skeleton of a woman with a small brick in her mouth (see right) while excavating mass graves of plague victims from the Middle Ages on Lazzaretto Nuovo Island in Venice (see second image here).

    At the time the woman died, many people believed that the plague was spread by "vampires" which, rather than drinking people's blood, spread disease by chewing on their shrouds after dying. Grave-diggers put bricks in the mouths of suspected vampires to stop them doing this, Borrini says

  4. #4
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    Re: Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by sparques View Post
    Since joining this forum, I've noted that there is a wide diversity of opinions, some curiously flexible, some uncompromisingly rigid, some spiritual, some secular, some biblical, some anti-biblical..etc.

    It sorta put me in mind of this optical illusion, that some of you have surely already seen, and the analogies that might be drawn.

    Attachment 8775

    The illusion is that the A and B squares are different colors. When in fact they are the same.

    Any normal human immediately says, "Nah...no way man...they are different." But after a simple analysis, you find that they are the same.

    So anyway, I drew some analogies from this exercise....dealing with illusions and/or delusions.

    The scientific mind might say that this is a perfect example of how people can be deceived and deluded into a spiritual belief based on the illusion of a fairy tale god, or gods, but through closer analysis, you will plainly see the discrepancies and the truth.

    The spiritual mind might say that this is a perfect example of how science takes some key facts and findings, then paints an illusion from those facts...but through close analysis, you will plainly see the discrepancies and the truth.

    There is also the train of thought that one square is spirituality, and the other is science. In the illusion, they look different. But that is just an illusion. In reality, they are the same.

    Anyway...those are three examples of possible opinions, or analogies. I thought it would be cool if you could develop your own analogy along these lines that best describes your personal thinking.

    Of course, if this causes a battle...I would like to offer my apologies in advance. I am really just looking for enlightenment toward "who we are".
    where's the PROOF picture that shows the color to be the same!? i now i've seen it before but STILL........:freak3: :spin2: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  5. #5
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    Re: Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    where's the PROOF picture that shows the color to be the same!? i now i've seen it before but STILL........:freak3: :spin2: :
    lol....Well, the best way is to open the picture in an application like photoshop and check the properties of the colors. You will see that they are both color 787878.

    But, for those who don't have photoshop or something similar, I've cut B out of its spot and pasted it overlaying A, so you can see. I've done nothing but cut and paste.
    Attachment 8779

  6. #6
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    Re: Illusions

    I've seen that very illusion on a video somewhere, so I know it's so. But fopr other amazing illusions, check out:
    http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng//a...mis_wired.html

  7. #7
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    Re: Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by sparques View Post
    Since joining this forum, I've noted that there is a wide diversity of opinions, some curiously flexible, some uncompromisingly rigid, some spiritual, some secular, some biblical, some anti-biblical..etc.

    It sorta put me in mind of this optical illusion, that some of you have surely already seen, and the analogies that might be drawn.

    Attachment 8775

    The illusion is that the A and B squares are different colors. When in fact they are the same.

    Any normal human immediately says, "Nah...no way man...they are different." But after a simple analysis, you find that they are the same.

    So anyway, I drew some analogies from this exercise....dealing with illusions and/or delusions.

    The scientific mind might say that this is a perfect example of how people can be deceived and deluded into a spiritual belief based on the illusion of a fairy tale god, or gods, but through closer analysis, you will plainly see the discrepancies and the truth.

    The spiritual mind might say that this is a perfect example of how science takes some key facts and findings, then paints an illusion from those facts...but through close analysis, you will plainly see the discrepancies and the truth.

    There is also the train of thought that one square is spirituality, and the other is science. In the illusion, they look different. But that is just an illusion. In reality, they are the same.

    Anyway...those are three examples of possible opinions, or analogies. I thought it would be cool if you could develop your own analogy along these lines that best describes your personal thinking.

    Of course, if this causes a battle...I would like to offer my apologies in advance. I am really just looking for enlightenment toward "who we are".
    Hi, I'm a square. Your article is enlightening, although tireing. I like it.
    Cost of Living Getting Too High?
    http://ez-top.com/MONEY.html

  8. #8
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    Re: Illusions

    Thanks Kool square paper person!

    Ya know...that video that Doojie posted was enlightening as well.

    The idea that the discovery of the illusion creates "joy" is a pretty cool observation. I'm going to hafta think about this some more.

    There's gotta be a joy connection in the illusions of life....as similar to optical illusions.

  9. #9
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    Re: Illusions

    The interesting thing about such illusions is that they show us that our conscious minds will select "one" thing or the "other", but not "both". Once the mind "sees" it, that is the way it must be.

    Consciously, it might seem, "free will" is an illusion of choice in many cases, if not all. The question is, which is illusion, and which is free?



    Quote Originally Posted by sparques View Post
    Thanks Kool square paper person!

    Ya know...that video that Doojie posted was enlightening as well.

    The idea that the discovery of the illusion creates "joy" is a pretty cool observation. I'm going to hafta think about this some more.

    There's gotta be a joy connection in the illusions of life....as similar to optical illusions.

  10. #10
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    Re: Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    The interesting thing about such illusions is that they show us that our conscious minds will select "one" thing or the "other", but not "both". Once the mind "sees" it, that is the way it must be...
    The city of Cleveland Ohio is basically a sewer. Bad management, decline of industry, and inner city rot, has taken its toll. The people who live in Cleveland believe that Cleveland is wonderful. So how can that be?

    Professional athletes, who are paid to play on Cleveland's sports teams, talk about how great Cleveland is. Entertainer Drew Carey also does...as well as Star Trek's Kate Mulgrew. Why?...well because people fawn over them constantly...raising them to the level of gods. But, because these icons speak good of the city, the people believe the city is good, despite their lousy living conditions and eroding environment.

    Even worse, is the Toronto Canada comparison. Clevelanders call Toronto, "Cleveland's Sister City", then use that title as a sort of claim to Toronto's positive attributes.

    This feels like and illusion...but I can't figure out how they live in the environment and don't see the problem.

  11. #11
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    Re: Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by sparques View Post
    The city of Cleveland Ohio is basically a sewer. Bad management, decline of industry, and inner city rot, has taken its toll. The people who live in Cleveland believe that Cleveland is wonderful. So how can that be?

    Professional athletes, who are paid to play on Cleveland's sports teams, talk about how great Cleveland is. Entertainer Drew Carey also does...as well as Star Trek's Kate Mulgrew. Why?...well because people fawn over them constantly...raising them to the level of gods. But, because these icons speak good of the city, the people believe the city is good, despite their lousy living conditions and eroding environment.

    Even worse, is the Toronto Canada comparison. Clevelanders call Toronto, "Cleveland's Sister City", then use that title as a sort of claim to Toronto's positive attributes.

    This feels like and illusion...but I can't figure out how they live in the environment and don't see the problem.
    maybe it has something to do with the 2 known maxims that seeing is believing/love is blind!? :freak3: :spin2: :
    Last edited by lexx; 10-11-2009 at 08:31 PM.
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  12. #12
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    Re: Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by sparques View Post
    Thanks Kool square paper person!

    Ya know...that video that Doojie posted was enlightening as well.

    The idea that the discovery of the illusion creates "joy" is a pretty cool observation. I'm going to hafta think about this some more.

    There's gotta be a joy connection in the illusions of life....as similar to optical illusions.
    Admittedly, I had a hard time with the maze of squares until it was reduced to numerical differences by color codes. Then, I saw Doojie's video posting about violating expectations. Maybe language is a common denominator of illisions. If you tell me about a puzzling situation and you accept my explanation of it, that may or may not change your perception. Thinking of the Bible, a giant maze of stories and interpretations about God, we rely on religious "experts" to communicate spiritual truth. However, without a common experience comparable to what Moses and the prophets heard and saw we are confronted with a noisy cacophony of interpretations. The same for truth, if it exists, we are constantly seeking the right words to find meaning, which we roughly interpret as truth. That's my take on illusions.
    Last edited by Cnance; 10-12-2009 at 10:46 AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    The same for truth, if it exists, we are constantly seeking the right words to find meaning, which we roughly interpret as truth. That's my take on illusions.

    are all looking for words that allow the feeling of innocence(truth)!? or if they feel innocence they attach it to the words that come to mind/or are implanted in that moment!? then try to convince others of that association as if it might/SHOULD be universal!? :freak3: :spin2: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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