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  1. #1
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    Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    The cost of the environmental controls is finally coming. If we had the oil we do not have the refineries to turn it into gasoline and keep up with the demand because of environmental controls. We now import gasoline. We have many domestic oil reserves that we can not use because of environmental controls.

    My point is these environmental controls are not free. It sure seemed like it didn't it? Those days are over and now you and I will pay directly from our pockets. Not just our gasoline either. Heating our homes is up. The cost to manufacture the products we buy will rise. Every piece of plastic is part oil. The cost to deliver the products will go up. The list goes on and on.

    We most often talk about more fuel efficient and cleaner operating cars. How we should invest in the technology for electric or hydrogen burning cars. The fact that we often overlook is the technology that has gone into finding and tapping our oil reserves. It too has improved. It no longer has the impact on the environment but some ignore that fact. Oil refineries are clean operations now through research and technology but we ignore that fact as well. The mind set is that these are both evil so we shouldn't listen to it or believe it.

    Oil prices are high and going higher because there is no longer enough supply for the world consumption. Iran now has the ability to threaten nuclear weapons and make millions upon millions from the price of oil going up. Venezuela can threaten to withhold it's oil and the prices jump just because of the tight supply. Simple threats on the oil supply raise the price because, in part, we refuse to tap our reserves. It is very profitable for third world nations to make even idle threats.

    We are now paying in cash the cost for our environmental controls. We will be paying even more. This is not going away this time.

    Is it not time that in addition to cleaner and more efficient cars that we also look at cleaner and more efficient oil drilling and recovery as well as refining? Oil is in just about every product we use. This is not just cars. How much is it going to cost you to fly? How far off are hydrogen burning jet planes? How much would it cost you to buy a hydrogen burning car? Better yet how much would it cost UPS or FedEx to switch to hydrogen burning trucks? Who would pay for these expensive new trucks? We will.

    To me this is not an either or. We have the technology to do both. We can drill for oil and protect the environment and we can refine oil into gasoline and protect the environment. We have the technology. Some are using everything in their power to prevent us from using this technology including abusing our court system.

    We have no one to blame but ourselves. We have allowed this to happen. We are now paying in cash and will keep paying in cash for our environmental controls. We have made it possible for that idiot in Iran to step before a microphone and shoot off his mouth and cost us more for gasoline. Republicans, democrats, we all did it. The question is what do we do now?

  2. #2
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by 1douglask
    The cost of the environmental controls is finally coming. If we had the oil we do not have the refineries to turn it into gasoline and keep up with the demand because of environmental controls. We now import gasoline. We have many domestic oil reserves that we can not use because of environmental controls.

    My point is these environmental controls are not free. It sure seemed like it didn't it? Those days are over and now you and I will pay directly from our pockets. Not just our gasoline either. Heating our homes is up. The cost to manufacture the products we buy will rise. Every piece of plastic is part oil. The cost to deliver the products will go up. The list goes on and on.

    We most often talk about more fuel efficient and cleaner operating cars. How we should invest in the technology for electric or hydrogen burning cars. The fact that we often overlook is the technology that has gone into finding and tapping our oil reserves. It too has improved. It no longer has the impact on the environment but some ignore that fact. Oil refineries are clean operations now through research and technology but we ignore that fact as well. The mind set is that these are both evil so we shouldn't listen to it or believe it.

    Oil prices are high and going higher because there is no longer enough supply for the world consumption. Iran now has the ability to threaten nuclear weapons and make millions upon millions from the price of oil going up. Venezuela can threaten to withhold it's oil and the prices jump just because of the tight supply. Simple threats on the oil supply raise the price because, in part, we refuse to tap our reserves. It is very profitable for third world nations to make even idle threats.

    We are now paying in cash the cost for our environmental controls. We will be paying even more. This is not going away this time.

    Is it not time that in addition to cleaner and more efficient cars that we also look at cleaner and more efficient oil drilling and recovery as well as refining? Oil is in just about every product we use. This is not just cars. How much is it going to cost you to fly? How far off are hydrogen burning jet planes? How much would it cost you to buy a hydrogen burning car? Better yet how much would it cost UPS or FedEx to switch to hydrogen burning trucks? Who would pay for these expensive new trucks? We will.

    To me this is not an either or. We have the technology to do both. We can drill for oil and protect the environment and we can refine oil into gasoline and protect the environment. We have the technology. Some are using everything in their power to prevent us from using this technology including abusing our court system.

    We have no one to blame but ourselves. We have allowed this to happen. We are now paying in cash and will keep paying in cash for our environmental controls. We have made it possible for that idiot in Iran to step before a microphone and shoot off his mouth and cost us more for gasoline. Republicans, democrats, we all did it. The question is what do we do now?

    I'm with ya there, buddy. I could give a sh!t if we leave a toxic cesspool to your kids as long as I got my Hummer ...yeah! And who's that Iranian as.shole thiink he is anyway? Doesn't he know Iran is sitting on top of our oil? What nerve!
    Last edited by dchristie; 04-22-2006 at 03:07 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by dchristie
    I'm with ya there, buddy. I could give a sh!t if we leave a toxic cesspool to your kids as long as I got my Hummer ...yeah! And who's that Iranian as.shole thiink he is anyway? Doesn't he know Iran is sitting on top of our oil? What nerve!
    Now we have heard from one of the people that got us here. We still have no answer to the question of what do we do now?

  4. #4
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by 1douglask
    Now we have heard from one of the people that got us here. We still have no answer to the question of what do we do now?
    Why don't you just stick your head back in your ass and ask Jesus to give Bush a brain and a soul.

  5. #5
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by 1douglask
    Now we have heard from one of the people that got us here. We still have no answer to the question of what do we do now?
    Doug, there's no reasoning with people like this. Their like children man. Whenever anyone has anything to say that even remotely sounds like they're disagreeing, they immediately resort to name calling, character bashing, etc etc. They absolutely will not engage in a cordial debate. They kind of remind me of my 16 year old daughter when she had her first period! Holy smokes man. Talk about moody! Hahahahaha. It's kinda funny though. Their like those toys when you push their stomach they say those little sayings. You push this guys button and he says stuff like "Its not my fault". "I hate you"
    "The world is ending". "Hillary for President". Hahahahah. Its funny man.
    They're so full of anger and hate though. I really feel sorry for them. Let me ask you this, when was the last time you've seen anything positive posted from any of these people? Like "I'm voting for this guy because he..." whatever. That would work for me. I may disagree, but it could be interesting and educational debating with them. But it doesn't (and won't I'm afraid) ever happen. Don't let them get to you. Like all little kids, they'll eventually grow up. In the mean time, just keep firing back. Stand up to them and they normally run away.

  6. #6
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySubSailor
    Doug, there's no reasoning with people like this. Their like children man. Whenever anyone has anything to say that even remotely sounds like they're disagreeing, they immediately resort to name calling, character bashing, etc etc. They absolutely will not engage in a cordial debate. They kind of remind me of my 16 year old daughter when she had her first period! Holy smokes man. Talk about moody! Hahahahaha. It's kinda funny though. Their like those toys when you push their stomach they say those little sayings. You push this guys button and he says stuff like "Its not my fault". "I hate you"
    "The world is ending". "Hillary for President". Hahahahah. Its funny man.
    They're so full of anger and hate though. I really feel sorry for them. Let me ask you this, when was the last time you've seen anything positive posted from any of these people? Like "I'm voting for this guy because he..." whatever. That would work for me. I may disagree, but it could be interesting and educational debating with them. But it doesn't (and won't I'm afraid) ever happen. Don't let them get to you. Like all little kids, they'll eventually grow up. In the mean time, just keep firing back. Stand up to them and they normally run away.
    dchristie is an example of the radical extreme of the environmentalists. By pure volume they have become the voice of the environmental movement for many years and they have been effective. We fail to support our elected officials when they stand up to these radicals. We elect people who do not have the courage to stand up to these radicals. We stay silent and allow them to have their voices heard unchallenged. While we were silent they did stop new domestic refineries and they did stop any new domestic oil deposits from being tapped. While oil prices were realatively low and the price of gasoline bounced we failed to take what was happening seriously. We kicked the can down the road. We did this. We were silent. We failed to support our elected officials when they debated drilling for new oil or debated fixing the maze of federal, state and local controls preventing any new refineries.

    If you agree with dchristie then you should be happy with the gas prices and the high prices for vertually everything that will be coming as a result. Every product that has plastic in it, every product that has any byproduct of oil in it will go up in price. Any product that is delivered by train or truck will go up in price. You may not be able to afford to fly to grandma's house this Thanksgiving. Later this summer when you are paying $5 or $6 a gallon for gasoline you should be happy. That is exactly what you have been working for.

    If you don't agree with people like dchristie it is time to speak up and support your elected officials against these extremists. These radicals are also abusing our court system by suing to stop what we and our elected officials voted for. They know they can stop a new refinery or our tapping a domestic oil supply by filing lawsuits for maybe 10 years or more. They know that by filing a lawsuit they can raise the cost of building that new refinery or drilling that new well by $10's of millions.

    dchristie and other radicals are a case of the tail wagging the dog. We let this happen, you and me. We are responsible for these high gas price and the high prices yet to come. We have the technology to build new refineries and drill for new oil without destroying the environment. If we stay silent we will all pay even more and soon.

    Last edited by 1douglask; 04-22-2006 at 01:50 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    To blame the high price of gasoline on environmental controls is laughable at best. In 1973, when a fuel crisis developed from the oil embargo, what did we do? We took actions to conserve fuel. Families turned their thermostats down, we looked for alternative fuel sources, the government raised fuel standards, appliances were made more energy efficient, car pooling was promoted and most importantly production of gas guzzling cars was halted and more energy efficient, smaller cars were put into production.

    That was a wake up call. What have we done in the past 30 years to conserve fuel? We made gas guzzling SUV's the most popular vehicle on the highway and gave tax breaks to people who bought them. We've built drive through lanes for everything imaginable so that people do not have to get their fat asses out of the car and walk into the bank or that fast food joint. We've done nothing in the way of improving mass transportation. Car pooling is a thing of the past, just look at the cars that have just one individual in them while you are waiting in the traffic jam. In thirty years the development of alternative energy has been minimal at best. We've made big advances in solar panel energy, but just think of what we could have done if it had remained a priority. To tap what oil reserves that we have now would be a big mistake in the future security of this country.

  8. #8
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Sorry, but I am reposting this here, I also posted it in the Politics of Pot thread. I think this is so important, as bio-diesel actually helps clean the air…

    I am currently doing research on using Hemp as a source for Bio-diesel fuel. It is reported that just 6% of current farmland could supply the U.S. with enough Bio-diesel to the point where we would no longer need foreign oil. Not only would this drop the need for crude oil, but also it would give a giant boost to local farmers. A strain of Hemp that does not contain the THC that gets you high is available. Hemp will grow in all the lower 48 states quite well, and will grow on land to weak to support food crops.

    If the word could get out on this, I think laws would change. With $5.00 a gallon gas just around the corner, people will accept anything that will bring back $2.50 a gallon fuel. One of the big problems the Government has with this is loss of a very big tax base. It would be all too easy for people with a few acres of land to provide them selves with almost free heat and fuel for their new diesel car. Even most of the farm tractors used to till the fields, plant, and harvest already run on diesel.

    I am building a small Bio-diesel plant, large enough to provide me with enough fuel for my own use and some left over to sell to friends to recover my expenses. I will feed it mostly with corn, soybeans, and seaweed, but I will do a test run with hemp. There are a lot of local growers and they discard their stems and leaves, they only keep the tops. The seeds contain the most oil, I am not sure they will be willing to part with them. I will file for a permit to use Hemp, but am sure I will be turned down.

  9. #9
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    Sorry, but I am reposting this here, I also posted it in the Politics of Pot thread. I think this is so important, as bio-diesel actually helps clean the air…

    I am currently doing research on using Hemp as a source for Bio-diesel fuel. It is reported that just 6% of current farmland could supply the U.S. with enough Bio-diesel to the point where we would no longer need foreign oil. Not only would this drop the need for crude oil, but also it would give a giant boost to local farmers. A strain of Hemp that does not contain the THC that gets you high is available. Hemp will grow in all the lower 48 states quite well, and will grow on land to weak to support food crops.

    If the word could get out on this, I think laws would change. With $5.00 a gallon gas just around the corner, people will accept anything that will bring back $2.50 a gallon fuel. One of the big problems the Government has with this is loss of a very big tax base. It would be all too easy for people with a few acres of land to provide them selves with almost free heat and fuel for their new diesel car. Even most of the farm tractors used to till the fields, plant, and harvest already run on diesel.

    I am building a small Bio-diesel plant, large enough to provide me with enough fuel for my own use and some left over to sell to friends to recover my expenses. I will feed it mostly with corn, soybeans, and seaweed, but I will do a test run with hemp. There are a lot of local growers and they discard their stems and leaves, they only keep the tops. The seeds contain the most oil, I am not sure they will be willing to part with them. I will file for a permit to use Hemp, but am sure I will be turned down.

    You're damn right you'll be turned down. Remember what we've got impersonating a "government"? They would rather send their bucket headed, jack booted goons smashing through your living room window in the hope that you might just be smoking some of it so they can haul your ass off to jail and become one of their prison industry slaves. Why would The Flying Monkey care? He's obviously more interested in driving oil prices higher with his saber rattling and war mongering.
    Last edited by dchristie; 04-22-2006 at 05:57 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    I remember brown air. Used to live in the bay area long ago. Nice and clear on the Pacific side, brown and hazy in San Mateo. Also lived near the Potomac too, used to be able to smell it in the summer. It's a whole lot better now. Every now and then I'm behind a pre-catalytic car, and it's definately noticeable what comes out of the tailpipe. Almost like being gassed. Did industry and Detroit clean up voluntarily...nope. Lotsa lip service, but nada until the EPA got going. People finally woke up when the said", Hey look, the river's on fire." (Cuyahoga)

    Oil is out there but now more people want it. China's and India's middle class is growing, and they want to drive too. Get used to it. Oil ain't cheap any more. It's an item in short supply and in high demand. You want it, you have to outbid the other guy. In the meantime, a gallon of gas is about $8.66 USD per gallon in England if I did my conversion of liters and the pound sterling right. We be getting it cheap compared to them.

  11. #11
    ocloren Guest

    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Well, to help with Gas, you can do something about it.

    It's called Ethos FR.

    www.4-ecorp.com

    Check out the movies and see for yourself.

    If you want to be a customer for Free, without having to pay for the distributor pack, private message me for an ID.

    Signing up now will lock a position for free. You'll also be able to make money telling people how they can save money using Ethos FR.

    Anyway, good luck.

  12. #12
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi
    To blame the high price of gasoline on environmental controls is laughable at best. In 1973, when a fuel crisis developed from the oil embargo, what did we do? We took actions to conserve fuel. Families turned their thermostats down, we looked for alternative fuel sources, the government raised fuel standards, appliances were made more energy efficient, car pooling was promoted and most importantly production of gas guzzling cars was halted and more energy efficient, smaller cars were put into production.

    That was a wake up call. What have we done in the past 30 years to conserve fuel? We made gas guzzling SUV's the most popular vehicle on the highway and gave tax breaks to people who bought them. We've built drive through lanes for everything imaginable so that people do not have to get their fat asses out of the car and walk into the bank or that fast food joint. We've done nothing in the way of improving mass transportation. Car pooling is a thing of the past, just look at the cars that have just one individual in them while you are waiting in the traffic jam. In thirty years the development of alternative energy has been minimal at best. We've made big advances in solar panel energy, but just think of what we could have done if it had remained a priority. To tap what oil reserves that we have now would be a big mistake in the future security of this country.
    Environmental controls have prevented any new refineries from being built. We can no longer refine enough gasoline to meet our needs and our use of gasoline and oil per capita has been dropping. Our economy is growing as is our population. We have enough oil available to supply our country without importing but we can't use it because of environmental controls. The 1973 fuel crisis was largely caused by our not using our own supplies of oil and the crisis was the result of an import embargo. Environmental controls caused the gas crisis of 1973.

    Your exactly correct. That was a wake up call and nothing was done to work with and to use the new technology that allows our ability to use our own oil supplies and to refine the oil into useable products without damaging the environment.

    For the past 30 years we have used less and less energy per capita. We produce more products using less energy than ever before. We have hybrid cars that burn less fuel but to date they are not cost effective. To insinuate that we as a nation have done nothing to conserve energy for the past 30 years is just plain wrong.

    "We" didn't make any SUV's. Car manufacturers answered the demand of the market and that includes Toyota and Honda etc. Car manufacturers from around the world built SUV's because that is what people were buying. In a free market that is what business does. If you don't you go out of business. "We" didn't do anything and I would love to see the list of people that got tax breaks for buying an SUV. That is bull. Ignoring the extreme growth in the China and India economies and the increased demand for oil there is bull. To suggest mass transportation as an answer is to suggest socialism as an answer. No thank you.

    So let's see, we have electric cars, we have cars that run on natural gas, we have hybrid cars, we have vehicles that run on the old vegetable oil from the friers at McDonalds, we have hydrogen powered cars, we have ethanol. When did we find these new technologies yesterday? No! They have been being developed for years and years. There is technology for diesel trucks giving them better gas mileage and cleaner burning being used today and new technology coming on line. If you think companies like UPS or FedEx or airlines are not looking for better fuel economy your nuts. Your claim that we have made minimal effort for the last 30 years is just wrong.

    Here is one more for you regarding your statement about the future security of this country as a reason not to tap our oil deposits. Our security is at risk right now, today because we haven't tapped our oil deposits. It would take a rather minor disruption in our ability to import oil at any price to cause our economy to crash today. Waiting for that crisis and our economy to crash to then start drilling in Anwar or off the coasts is just plain ignorant.

  13. #13
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    Sorry, but I am reposting this here, I also posted it in the Politics of Pot thread. I think this is so important, as bio-diesel actually helps clean the air…

    I am currently doing research on using Hemp as a source for Bio-diesel fuel. It is reported that just 6% of current farmland could supply the U.S. with enough Bio-diesel to the point where we would no longer need foreign oil. Not only would this drop the need for crude oil, but also it would give a giant boost to local farmers. A strain of Hemp that does not contain the THC that gets you high is available. Hemp will grow in all the lower 48 states quite well, and will grow on land to weak to support food crops.

    If the word could get out on this, I think laws would change. With $5.00 a gallon gas just around the corner, people will accept anything that will bring back $2.50 a gallon fuel. One of the big problems the Government has with this is loss of a very big tax base. It would be all too easy for people with a few acres of land to provide them selves with almost free heat and fuel for their new diesel car. Even most of the farm tractors used to till the fields, plant, and harvest already run on diesel.

    I am building a small Bio-diesel plant, large enough to provide me with enough fuel for my own use and some left over to sell to friends to recover my expenses. I will feed it mostly with corn, soybeans, and seaweed, but I will do a test run with hemp. There are a lot of local growers and they discard their stems and leaves, they only keep the tops. The seeds contain the most oil, I am not sure they will be willing to part with them. I will file for a permit to use Hemp, but am sure I will be turned down.
    Bio diesel is important. There is the technology to run diesel engines on 100% pure corn oil now. I aplaud your efforts. I have a friend that owns a garage. He spent some major money to buy a furnace that burns used motoroil. It took him a few years to recover his investment but he is very happy now. All of these technologies will become cost effective in the not to distant future. We have to remember that oil is not just for gasoline. Oil plays a large part in our manufacturing industries to make products. Many products come from oil or contain oil. Our and other economies in this world run on oil, not all gasoline. To blame those bastards that drive SUV's or to get pleasure from knowing what they have to pay now to fill the tanks on the SUV's fails to consider the true problem we are facing. The price of oil will generate inflation and everything we buy and everything we eat will go up in price.

  14. #14
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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Well, dont we need corn as a food crop??? People who are carnivores eat
    steaks, cattle eat corn...how much are you going to have to pay for that
    steak when all the corn is going for fuel....then when we have a corn blight,
    borer, drought, we cant eat or go anywhere. Wouldnt it be smarter to find
    something that wouldnt conflict with our food supply??? Just a thought!

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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    And....bogie needs his Jack Daniels. :D

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    Re: Gasoline, Oil & The Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by 1douglask
    Now we have heard from one of the people that got us here. We still have no answer to the question of what do we do now?
    You don't recognize sarcasm when it falls all over you do you?
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

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