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  1. #1
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    Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Scams and the Latter-day Saints
    Rick Branch
    Arlington, TX
    For years, Utah, which has a population of over 70 percent Mormon, has fought against the stigma of being called the Scam Capital of America.
    In 1984, Ken Thornberg, Director of the Better Business Bureau office in Idaho, said he believed that, "...a majority of the nation's illegal investment scams originate in Utah.
    "`I would say - and I am not exaggerating - that 75 percent of the country's major investment schemes are hatched in the Salt Lake City-Provo area,'" (Ogden Standard-Examiner, 26 March 1984, p. 10A).
    Whether the statistics are completely accurate or not, Thornberg is not alone in his assessment that the "majority" of the scams and fraudulent organizations are created in Utah.
    "As early as 1969 the Wall Street Journal called Salt Lake City `a locus for shell operations.'
    "Then in 1974 the infamous `stock fraud capital' moniker was awarded Salt Lake City in a page one Wall Street Journal article on February 25, 1974. The headline: `Dubious Distinction; Salt Lake City Gains Reputation for Being a Stock Fraud Center,'" (Utah Holiday, October 1990, p. 26).
    This downward trend continued to be noticed and ten years later in 1984, Newsweek magazine wrote, "Utah, the land of the Mormons, has earned itself another name: the Stock-Fraud Capital of the Nation," (Ibid, p. 27).
    Thus, the question begs to be asked, what is the cause of such a phenomenon?
    Perhaps the February 6, 1984 issue of Business Week provides an insight into the problem.
    "Many (LDS) church members are likely to accept without question an investment recommendation made by another Mormon. Hucksters try to exploit this tendency by trying to bring church officials into investor groups or by portraying themselves as good church-going Mormons," (Utah Holiday, October 1990, p. 27).
    In a United Press International article, this rationale was again reiterated.
    The UPI said, "Major reasons for the success of scams in Utah are the highly organized, tightly knit structure and trust-oriented doctrines of the Mormon Church," (Ibid).
    Apparently realizing the problem, in 1984 Utah's "Governor Scott Matheson appointed a new Securities Task Force, including (Hugh) Pinnock, in part to confront what experts were calling a `Mormon connection' to many of the schemes," (Ibid).
    However, it would be this same Hugh Pinnock that would feel the sting of a con artist a few years later, at the hands of the infamous Mark Hofmann.
    Pinnock would help Hofmann secure a $185,000 "...signature loan at the bank where Pinnock was a director - a loan to buy documents that did not even exist," (Ibid).
    In 1986, the San Diego Union provided further information on the scam game.
    No longer was the media simply reporting about Utah being the Fraud Capital of America. Now, it was Mormons taking advantage of Mormons.
    "In recent years, Utah has been called the fraud capital of the United States, and many defendants in fraud cases have been Mormon officials who used church connections to victimize other members," (5 October 1986, p. A-25).
    The problem increased to the point where the Ogden, Utah paper reported: "The cultural emphasis in the Mormon Church that equates financial success with spiritual success, and an unquestioning allegiance to authority figures, may partly explain why 10,000 Utah investors have been swindled out of more than $200 million during the past decade," (Ogden Standard-Examiner, 26 August 1989, p. 3C).
    "Washington, D.C.-based columnist Jack Anderson, A Utah Mormon, admits that he foolishly sent off $12,000 after hearing of [what turned out to be a Utah-based scam] from a friend back in Salt Lake," (Forbes 20 June 1983, p. 33).

    As Forbes magazine explains, "Never take people solely at face value, and don't invest your money without checking carefully first," (Ibid, p. 34)."

    This cult has been bilking it's members out of their cash for decades. Now they are turning their attention on the unwary to bring them into the cult to steal more money. Many of the con artists are actually mormons because they "equate financial success with spiritual success". The more money they steal from you, the more spiritual they think they become. One sick twisted cult if ever there was one.

  2. #2
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    So......How is this different than a lot of Christian Ministries????

  3. #3
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Synik
    So......How is this different than a lot of Christian Ministries????
    You're asking the wrong guy if that question was directed at me. You would have to ask one of the local thumpers, maybe they can answer. I was just pointing out this particular scam known a mormonism.

  4. #4
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    As has been posted before at SCAM, and never refuted by even one Mormon, please watch out for this cult. They are well known scam artists and have bilked millions from unsuspecting people.
    Once again, not one mormon has disputed these facts as they know the thousands of accusations are true. Beware of this cult as they will steal your money and never blink an eye.

  5. #5
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    UserName, having also read the abortion thread, I see you really have it in for Mormons. "Cult", the way you use it in an insulting way, is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that Christianity and Scientology are cults. Mormonism is a religion - not one I subscribe to, but I can have a certain amount of respect for its members. I know they help their own people with their own kind of charity, and I think that's a good thing.
    ~Contrarienne~


  6. #6
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarienne
    UserName, having also read the abortion thread, I see you really have it in for Mormons. "Cult", the way you use it in an insulting way, is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that Christianity and Scientology are cults. Mormonism is a religion - not one I subscribe to, but I can have a certain amount of respect for its members. I know they help their own people with their own kind of charity, and I think that's a good thing.
    It is a cult started by a wacko who said he saw an angel named moroni (that should be your first hint). Nothing he said has been proven, and in fact, much of what he said has been proven to be lies. Even their oaths and procedures were stolen from the masons. They are a cult that is more interested in taking your money than helping anyone, even their own followers. They won't even defend their own it. Stay away from this cult... you have been warned.

  7. #7

    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Help, how do I post a new scam. I can't figure out how to put a new thread out for an investor and corporate scam. Thanks.

  8. #8
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    It is a cult started by a wacko who said he saw an angel named moroni (that should be your first hint). Nothing he said has been proven, and in fact, much of what he said has been proven to be lies. Even their oaths and procedures were stolen from the masons. They are a cult that is more interested in taking your money than helping anyone, even their own followers. They won't even defend their own it. Stay away from this cult... you have been warned.
    That hint is amusing, but it doesn't change my discomfort with your calling Mormonism a cult. Christians call many religions cults for not conforming to theirs. Such Christians have no credibility in my eyes, and have convinced me that it is they that belong to a cult. When you refer to the Mormon religion as a cult, you remind me of those Christians.

    You say Mormonism is full of lies. I wouldn't know, but I do know that the most offensive person I ever heard speaking in a Christian church is Richard Baer, of ex-Mormons for Jesus. He stood there and told lies about what is printed in black and white in the Bible, I suppose because he assumed his audience didn't know how to read for themselves.

    I used to have a neighbor who told me I'd better get the Book of Mormon out of my house, because it is the devil's work. So you are not the first to "warn" me; however, my interest in all religions does not mean that I am at risk of joining them.

    That's interesting that you claim that Mormon oaths and procedures were stolen from the Masons. I've heard similar things that point to Mormonism being a group with practitioners of mysticism and the occult, and even saw reference that the Mormon church is a "hiding place" for witches. That holds some appeal to me, but fear not, I am at little risk of being drawn into any such institution.

    Everyone is interested in taking my money, your money and everyone else's money. No news there.

    You and I likely have one thing in common. You've been mightily offended by Mormons, and I've taken offense elsewhere.

    P.S. Why didn't I receive topic reply notification e-mails?
    ~Contrarienne~


  9. #9
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    OK, I had a chance to look into this.

    First just to make it clear, I am not speaking here on behalf of the Church, this is just information I researched on the net and from members who know more than I do.

    Lets tackle the “Malls” first. The Church owns one mall. It is in down town Salt Lake, right across the road from Temple Square. It was purchased a couple of years ago because it was becoming an eye sore as well as starting to lead the down town area into less than 1st class. The Church has modernized half of the Mall and it continues to have stores. The other half has been turned into a student research center to better serve the local public. I do not know what the Church paid for this one Mall, but I doubt it was over the $1,500,000.00 or $900,000,000 you claim, depending on witch of you numbers I use.

    As for your $37.5 million being less than 1% of the Churches yearly income. That would mean the Church is taking in over $3,750,000,000 per year. The Churches income per year is less than that, how much less I cannot say with out spending some more time looking into it. I do know that it takes in about 1 million a day in tithing, so that is only 365 million a year.

    As for these “Cattle Ranches”, the Church purchased these many years ago and no longer runs most of them. The land is rented out; the Church retains ownership in case they are ever needed in the future. Some are still used by the Church, but not all. Also when the Church started out west 150 years ago there were no stores, no feed mills, no any thing in the Great Salt Lake Valley. So the Church did enter into many business ventures in the past to provide those living in the valley with a way to survive. Most have been sold off or shut down long ago.

    Also there is a lot of money being spent on Welfare that shows up as capital expenses. The reason for this is quite simple, I will use the Church Farm near me has a perfect example. Tractors, plows, disks, drags, seed, fertilizers, fuel, workers, electric bills, combines, and ever other type of farm equipment are purchased to farm the land. The crops are then ether 1) given to the poor, 2) sold to purchase finished goods to give to the poor, as in sugar beets are sold and then the money is used to buy sugar, 3) sold and the money goes into the general fund. Number 1 is a capital expense that goes to the poor but never is accounted for that way. 100% of the crops grown on the farm near me go into the welfare program. It depends on what is grown or raised. Cattle are sold and beef is purchased, as the Church is not in the butchering business.

    As for the $3 to $4 per member spending on welfare; you must consider that the Church has millions of members in third world countries. Most of these people contribute little or nothing towards the Churches general fund, their buildings are all built and maintained by members in wealthier countries. The Church also has a Missionary program that costs $5,000.00 per Missionary, per year. With over 44,000 in the field, this is 220 million per year alone. Even in my Ward here in the US, only about 20% of the members are full tithe payers (paying 10% of their income). With most charity organizations returning only 4 to 6% of their donations to the needy, perhaps $3 or $4 is not so bad. Also I could not confirm you $3 or $4 amounts they may be high, or they may be low.

    Now if you are going to claim I am wrong about any of this, please provide proof. Like you claim we own “malls” please name them and their locations.

    I hope this helps.



    As to some of your new stuff here, I never claimed all Mormans are perfect. And the Church is Non Profit like all Churches. But the Morman Church is very different in one way, the heads of our Church are paid nothing. Even Gordon B. Hinkly recieves a stipen of only a few thousand dollars a year. So why would the Church bother to steal money from any one? My local Bishop recieves nothing, not one dime for a job that takes 20 to 40 hours a week out of his life for 5 years.

    Any facts to back up your claims?

  10. #10
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Try these.....

    The truth behind the cult.

    Recovery from mormonism.

    Voices of former mormons.

    Mormons are so low as to hate all other Religions....
    "Mormons believe that their church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (D&C 1:30), the only organization authorized by the Almighty to preach his gospel and administer the ordinances of salvation, the only Church which has power to save" (Mormon Doctrine; 1977 ed, p. 136)."

    Mormons either deny of pervert every essential doctrine of historic christianity, including the uniqueness of God, the virgin birth, the Trinity, the authority of Scripture (by relegating it to a position below their other sacred writings), and salvation by grace through faith.
    From: "Charts of Cults, Sects, and Religious Movements ( Paperback) .


    MagicalThinking Interferes with Rational Decision Making

    All the verified facts you requested are here. Anyone who wants to see what a huge scam mormons perpetrate on innocent people, like yourself, need only to read about this disgusting cult. And to take 10% of a family's GROSS income to spend on malls makes this group nothing more than a cult run by George Orwell's pigs in Animal Farm.

  11. #11
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    I think the same can be dug up from every religion. It does seem, however, certain Christians on this blog are hell bent (pun intended) to bad mouth, put down every religion with a view different from theirs.

  12. #12
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Synik
    I think the same can be dug up from every religion. It does seem, however, certain Christians on this blog are hell bent (pun intended) to bad mouth, put down every religion with a view different from theirs.
    lol... yes, there certainly are some true thumpers here. But cultists are down a few rungs on the ladder from thumpers, and mormonism can only be called a cult.

  13. #13

    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    UserName, please take offense when I call you an ignorant ****. (Not sure if this will get me banned here or not.)

    Mormonism is not a cult, nor a scam. Anyone who points to anti-Mormon sites and disgruntled members and hails it as the 'truth' about Mormonism is a true idiot. Try doing some objective research for once instead of Googling sites to find the point of view you're looking for.

    As to the article, I'm assuming that last paragraph was your comment, as it was complete bull. The article, though, was interesting and true. In many Christian faiths (not just Mormons), there are those members who take advantage of other members and scam them. Doesn't surprise me that there's such a high concentration of that activity among Mormons.

  14. #14
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Space For Rent
    UserName, please take offense when I call you an ignorant ****.
    And please take offense if I assume the "Space For Rent" is between your ears.

    I didn't write the articles and I didn't coerce anyone to write them either. They were written by people who felt they needed to tell the world about the disgusting cult called mormonism. You should perhaps take it up with the thousands of people who were far closer to this cult than I. They feel strong enough to build websites to tell the truth to those unwary individuals who are vulnerable and could succumb to this cults indoctrinations.

    Christianity
    There is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods. (Deut. 4:35, 39; Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6,8; Mk. 12:29-34).

    MORMONISM
    There are many gods, and human beings can become gods and goddesses in the Celestial Kingdom (History of the Church, Vol. 6, pg. 306; Doctrine & Covenants 132:20-21). Those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, pg. 290).

    Christianity
    Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct persons within the on Triune Godhead.

    MORMONISM
    Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate Gods (Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 370; Mormon Doctrine, pg. 319 - 2nd Edition).
    They are a cult, both by definition and practice.

  15. #15
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Space For Rent
    UserName, please take offense when I call you an ignorant ****. (Not sure if this will get me banned here or not.)

    Mormonism is not a cult, nor a scam. Anyone who points to anti-Mormon sites and disgruntled members and hails it as the 'truth' about Mormonism is a true idiot. Try doing some objective research for once instead of Googling sites to find the point of view you're looking for.

    As to the article, I'm assuming that last paragraph was your comment, as it was complete bull. The article, though, was interesting and true. In many Christian faiths (not just Mormons), there are those members who take advantage of other members and scam them. Doesn't surprise me that there's such a high concentration of that activity among Mormons.
    The Maze of Mormonism................Dr. Martin............nice tape........198?


  16. #16
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    Re: Scams and the Latter-day Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by techie
    The Maze of Mormonism................Dr. Martin............nice tape........198?
    And for those who like to read.....


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