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Thread: Music?

  1. #1
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    Music?

    Since the advent of rap and hip hop, it has always been a controversial genre of music and sub culture.

    It is accused of promoting violence toward women, the police, and animals, in the lyrics, and the imagery, and it cannot be denied that this does exist with some artistes.

    And there is little question in my mind that young men, esp young black men (given the source of the music), are influenced by these guys, and aspire to be them.

    A guy will do a music dvd in which will show him and his 'homies' with fierce looking dogs, and sure enough, that will be the fashion for a time, you get all these totally unsuited owners, taking on dogs that they then make aggressive, to other dogs, or other people. Or both.

    It's a shame, because the animal is being exploited.

    The whole black gang culture thrives on the music and lyrics of such heroes, they are icons to them, and they take their lyrics as being like some sort of gospel, without contemplating that when it comes to guns and killing cops, it is someone's son or husband you are speaking of.

    It is one thing to sing of it, but it's not meant as an instruction!

    I don't believe a ban is in order. It would be hard to enforce, and would give the attention seeking pressure groups the exposre they do not merit.

    Also, I do not believe in curtailing music, books or art, even if I might find it offensive.

    YWFT
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  2. #2
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    Re: Music?

    fortunately for us white folks most african-americans aren't gangsters and don't listen to the trash you describe.

    fortunately for us musicians, there is more to the rap and hip-hop genre than just the trash you describe.

    fortunately for all of us, enlightened governments in the 21st century allow free speech and protect your right to object to somebody else's ideology.

    unfortunately some of us end up on a slab when somebody acts out emulated one of their gangsta rapper heroes and some of us have to witness the event that produced the stiffs.

    not fair and certainly the result of something delivered to the open market that was a threat to public safety.

    so we land squarely on the horns of a dilemma. where do we draw the line? and don't forget the white supremacist heavy medals bands while you divine an answer.

  3. #3
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    Re: Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Medium View Post
    where do we draw the line? and don't forget the white supremacist heavy medals bands while you divine an answer.
    Precisely.

    I don't think we do draw the line, is the answer.

    But then we get inconsistantcies.

    E Bay do not permit white supremacist groups, like Skrewdriver, to sell their music online, which is the right of E Bay, I suppose, but it is possible to find rap and hip hop music, by young black males, that promote violence against whites, women and police, in their lyrics. Seems odd that E Bay permits one and not the other.

    The black and asian communities have powerful pressure and lobbying groups, these days, and the powers that be are keen not to upset them, and foster good relations with them.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  4. #4
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    Re: Music?

    nothing odd there if you consider the hidden motive behind the double standards.

    the powers that be in this country have done some unbelievably wicked things to destroy the spirit of the black people here for hundreds of years. j. edgar hoover and his fbi thugs are alleged by extremist conspiracy freaks of being responsible for the creation of the crips, bloods and cocaine epidemic plaguing us today. there is a reference to it at the end of a movie done about the life and death of malcolm x.

    my biggest concern right now is that just such programs as you describe are elements of a broader scheme to put america under martial law that will be sparked by killing obama.

  5. #5
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    Re: Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Medium View Post
    nothing odd there if you consider the hidden motive behind the double standards.

    the powers that be in this country have done some unbelievably wicked things to destroy the spirit of the black people here for hundreds of years. j. edgar hoover and his fbi thugs are alleged by extremist conspiracy freaks of being responsible for the creation of the crips, bloods and cocaine epidemic plaguing us today. there is a reference to it at the end of a movie done about the life and death of malcolm x.

    my biggest concern right now is that just such programs as you describe are elements of a broader scheme to put america under martial law that will be sparked by killing obama.

    While I appreciated that at times the African Americans have not always been treated well, in more modern times that has not been the case, save for in a few backwaters.

    Anyway, it is a huge leap for anyone to suggest that the Feds have essentially been involved in the creation of black gangs, I don't buy that, do you?
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  6. #6
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    Re: Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    While I appreciated that at times the African Americans have not always been treated well, in more modern times that has not been the case, save for in a few backwaters.

    Anyway, it is a huge leap for anyone to suggest that the Feds have essentially been involved in the creation of black gangs, I don't buy that, do you?
    you are either too young to have caught the 60's and 70's and what was done to the leaders of the the african american community or the bbc really dropped the ball on the coverage. unless of course you mark modern times as later than 1995.

    it's not such a leap when you look at what the feds did and continue to do to any special interest group that they perceive as potential enemies of the state. like i said, the producer of malcolm's biography took that leap.

    i saw first hand what hoover's boys did to the jdl in chicago. we were a bunch of good jewish kids who weren't shy about getting into a rumble and were providing a protective presence in changing neighborhoods where elderly orthodox, their children and grandchildren were endangered on the streets, schools and synagogues.

    the phone taps and spooks following us around with cameras were nothing compared with the provacateurs they inserted to divert our mission from its focus on community protection to engaging arab student groups, nazi organizers and left-wing anti-zionists in street brawls that were worthy of the nightly news.

    most of us went on to other more sensible things before it got like what they did to the black panthers whose actual agenda was very similar, unlike what they would like you to believe about them pushing for armed insurrection --- their justification for annihilating them all.

  7. #7
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    Re: Music?

    Notwithstanding. The fact remains that there are some v popular black artists who promote very violent lyrics through their songs, glorifying murder and violence, and there are a large black consumer group who suck it up, and replicate the 'culture'.

    Now.

    What do we do to break that trend?

    Btw, what do you think of those music awards that are exclusively for black people? If white people had music awards that were exclusive to them only, would they not be accused of racism and elitism? Why is it any different for black musicians?

    Thanks
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  8. #8
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    Re: Music?

    hey baby, i live in that culture.

    humans are far and away the most highly variable species on the planet.
    a moose or a raccoon looks pretty much like any other moose or raccoon, no?

    on top of the racial variations, we have added in cultural and ideological variations.

    in my family and the melting pot community that is lakeview township within the city of chicago, now called new town or wrigleyville, we were conditioned to accept these differences as an uncontrollable given and to embrace each other in fellowship and celebrate life with each other, exchanging ideas and techniques, rather than hating each other for it.

    in my life, i have seen every important leader of black america villified in the press and blown away in the streets. the interdiction efforts of hoover and the fbi against dr king were shameful.

    these leaders have been replaced with a bunch of oreo cookies at the top and insane gangsters from families broken over a span of generations at the bottom.

    it is no wonder to me that the creative will is inspiring these words in my brothers and sisters of the muse.

    fortunately for us, i still hear plenty of loving, positive, upbeat music coming out of black people's lips.

    the problem is at the pyramid's tip. until the 1000 or less people who claim ownership over better than 95% of the world's enumerated resources, are removed or retrained, life in empire will not change much.

    let me do something really jewish to you and answer your question with a question: have any black people ever won a country music award?

  9. #9
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    Re: Music?

    Happy said...have any black people ever won a country music award?


    You beat me to it dude!:rain:
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  10. #10
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    Re: Music?

    Hey Steve,

    How ya been?

    Anyhoo, I (personally) put "gangsta'" rap in a separate catagory than hip-hop as a rule...I find that many musical genres have ...how shall I put it...elements, that could be construed as negative. When you get right down to it, music is a source of venting one's frustrations and feelings in a generally positive form (not actually acting them out) just because these lyrics are acted apon by certain imbicilic wankers, does not mean (again, IMO) that the music itself is to blame.

    (for what it's worth)Pete
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  11. #11
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    Re: Music?

    Not sure where this will lead or even if it is going to come out right, but here goes anyway...

    Music is an art form and as such should not be banned. That said, IMO, any negative actions which the perpetrator claims were inspired by certain lyrics is using a lame excuse. It's like video games or TV causing children to become violent... it just ain't so.
    The cause, IMO, is a lack of parental involvement in the child's life. I don't accept the single parent argument as legitimate. I do believe the issue is simply one of lazy parenting. The parent lacks the will or the courage to explain and follow through with the fact that an individual is responsible for their actions and that abusing, injuring or killing someone in song, a game, film or TV is not the same as the reality. For example, I took my son shooting when he was 11 years old to impress upon him the reality of it. I gave him a light 12-gauge shotgun, instructed him on how to hold it and let him go with it... it knocked him on his ass and destroyed the target... lesson taught and learned... TV and movies ain't real & reality hurts.

    Back in line... *lol* Music is an art form created by it's artist to express their emotion on a subject. If that emotion is anger... leading to violence... the child had better have had an adult explain the reality of life, good and bad, to them, as well as, the consequences of one's actions and the knowledge that one will be held responsible for those actions... or else you'll have the false "the music made me do it" defense to deal with. The music, TV or video game didn't make you do it... your lack of a sense of responsibility for your actions made you do it.

  12. #12
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    Re: Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Medium View Post
    ... have any black people ever won a country music award?
    Yes,
    Charlie Pride

    http://www.charleypride.com/awards/
    .
    .
    .
    .

  13. #13
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    Re: Music?

    that's no surprise --- it would have been more surprising if there weren't an exception.

    i think i got your meaning of the other in spite of your difficulty composing.

    in my family, the reality check for what you are talking about was "if so and so told you to jump off a bridge, would you?"

    like your kid and the gun story --- your boy has a father and slap me if i'm wrong, you strike me as the kind of guy who would stay married at least long enough to raise the kids even if your marriage was bad.

    these black kids don't have that. its really sad in my community to live among these black and now poor white families too, so torn up.

    fathers kids never met --- mothers tricking, on dope and pregnant with their seventh kid. old grandmas trying to talk sense to teenagers slinging rocks on the corner to their middle aged relatives and ripping them off just as bad as the tourists from the burbs scoring in the ghetto.

    i'm not sure how or why it happened this way, but at least we're spared the really gruesome violence. people hardly ever get shot or stabbed and street brawls rarely escalate beyond shouting because both parties are too chickenshit to throw the first punch because they know they'll do time for it.

  14. #14
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    Re: Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Medium View Post
    that's no surprise --- it would have been more surprising if there weren't an exception.

    i think i got your meaning of the other in spite of your difficulty composing.

    in my family, the reality check for what you are talking about was "if so and so told you to jump off a bridge, would you?"

    like your kid and the gun story --- your boy has a father and slap me if i'm wrong, you strike me as the kind of guy who would stay married at least long enough to raise the kids even if your marriage was bad.

    these black kids don't have that. its really sad in my community to live among these black and now poor white families too, so torn up.

    fathers kids never met --- mothers tricking, on dope and pregnant with their seventh kid. old grandmas trying to talk sense to teenagers slinging rocks on the corner to their middle aged relatives and ripping them off just as bad as the tourists from the burbs scoring in the ghetto.

    i'm not sure how or why it happened this way, but at least we're spared the really gruesome violence. people hardly ever get shot or stabbed and street brawls rarely escalate beyond shouting because both parties are too chickenshit to throw the first punch because they know they'll do time for it.
    close, but no cigar... :) We divorced when he was 10. However, divorce does not mean no more involvement. He's 38 now and has 3 kids of his own & he keeps them in line... justice is swift at his house. His mother & I still maintain contact even though we're both long since remarried.

    It all goes back to consequences for one's actions. I think we're both, pretty much, on the same page.

    My parents were hard on me... I was hard on him and he's hard on his kids. Not abusive... just in charge & willing to let them know.

  15. #15
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    Re: Music?

    as it should be.

    my sister and brother-in-law never beat their kids --- might have smacked them a time or two to get their attention if they were doing something dangerously stupid, but otherwise managed them with scolding and isolation time outs. worked great. two beautiful kids about to get married and start their own families.

    i have a friend who got his high school honey pregnant, married her, got her pregnant again and realized he couldn't stand her. stayed with it and in a job he hated, but couldn't make enough money any other way. as soon as the youngest hit 18 he was out of there like a rocket. no child support. no alimony. no lawyers. no visitation schedules.

    a lot of what you post reminds me of him which is why i made the guess i did.

  16. #16
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    Re: Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by jigglepete View Post
    Hey Steve,

    How ya been?

    Mental old year, Pete, I could write a bloody book about it.

    Send me an e mail or something.

    Steve
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

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