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Thread: Moral question?

  1. #1
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    Moral question?

    Many years ago, cock fighting (lol), was entirely legal, engaged in by many, and simply another means to perhaps earning a few quid.

    In time, public opinion dictated that it was not only no longer regarded a 'sport', but that it was causing needless pain and suffering, and was therefore illegal, with heavy penalties if caught being part of an organised circle.

    Which is all fair play.

    But here is the question. Imagine a very small town, population around a few thousand, or even hundreds.

    In times of high unemployment, do you think it would be justified for the authorites to amend the laws, to permit this?

    Bull fighting is v popular in Spain, and VERY controversial, just as fox hunting once was here.

    Or do you take the view that any sort of fighting of animals, as part of a gamble, is just flat wrong, and can never be excused?
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  2. #2
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    Re: Moral question?

    why not bring back coliseum's ...lets let animals rip each other apart simply to relieve our boredom and allow us to gamble...it was never a sport!...mmmmm.. let me think about it...can we do it with fluffy kittens and cute puppies and horsies and hamsters too..at least with bull fighting its man against beast...I still dont agree it is right but can see it has more value.


    this was never a question, even in the coliseum the enlighten hated it and allowed it to happen to control the masses and prevent the populace have too much time to think...


    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    Many years ago, cock fighting (lol), was entirely legal, engaged in by many, and simply another means to perhaps earning a few quid.

    In time, public opinion dictated that it was not only no longer regarded a 'sport', but that it was causing needless pain and suffering, and was therefore illegal, with heavy penalties if caught being part of an organised circle.

    Which is all fair play.

    But here is the question. Imagine a very small town, population around a few thousand, or even hundreds.

    In times of high unemployment, do you think it would be justified for the authorites to amend the laws, to permit this?

    Bull fighting is v popular in Spain, and VERY controversial, just as fox hunting once was here.

    Or do you take the view that any sort of fighting of animals, as part of a gamble, is just flat wrong, and can never be excused?
    Last edited by reentry; 08-07-2009 at 03:09 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Moral question?

    Quote Originally Posted by reentry View Post
    why not bring back coliseum's ...lets let animals rip each other apart simply to relieve our boredom and allow us to gamble...it was never a sport!...mmmmm.. let me think about it...can we do it with fluffy kittens and cute puppies and horsies and hamsters too..at least with bull fighting its man against beast...I still dont agree it is right but can see it has more value.
    Okay, point taken, there are NO conditions in which you would validate this, right? That is fine, remember what I said, I am playing a bit of DA.

    I can see you feel strongly about it.

    Would you feel as strongly if people were using less intelligent creatures, predatory inverts, like Tarantualas v Scorpoions, for example.

    AFAIK, it is big in Japan. And legal, I believe. Seen as an acceptable part of their culture, and they are a cultured people, just as the Spanish are.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  4. #4
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    Re: Moral question?

    I really dont care about the animals or the insects...I worry about the humans debasing themselves and feeling a need for this type of activity...they need therapy...or a better way to spend their time...how is this positive and going to make a better person/world?
    It has always and will always be a wrong for humanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    Okay, point taken, there are NO conditions in which you would validate this, right? That is fine, remember what I said, I am playing a bit of DA.

    I can see you feel strongly about it.

    Would you feel as strongly if people were using less intelligent creatures, predatory inverts, like Tarantualas v Scorpoions, for example.

    AFAIK, it is big in Japan. And legal, I believe. Seen as an acceptable part of their culture, and they are a cultured people, just as the Spanish are.

  5. #5
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    Re: Moral question?

    Quote Originally Posted by reentry View Post
    I really dont care about the animals or the insects...I worry about the humans debasing themselves and feeling a need for this type of activity...they need therapy...or a better way to spend their time...how is this positive and going to make a better person/world?
    It has always and will always be a wrong for humanity.
    Imo, if you don't care about the animals, as you concede, then there are no grounds to actually object to it for you, then.

    And yet you do.

    Your given reason being humans debasing themselves. Who is to judge that they would be debasing themselves by attending such events? Who makes that moral judgement, aside from law. Do the thousands of people who go to bull fighting (and no, your description of it was inaccuate), need this 'therapy' that you mention?


    Thanks
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  6. #6
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    Re: Moral question?

    I have every right to object...it is called free speech..you dont seem like a dictator...but there you go!

    the politicians make law....judges adjudicate on it and their decisions reflect the elevated/depressed moral heirachy of the day ...

    The Church/civil rights movements define moral dogma initially..
    I will pray for you and
    I give up.....

    Where do you want me to send my puppies, chickens and kittens to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    Imo, if you don't care about the animals, as you concede, then there are no grounds to actually object to it for you, then.

    And yet you do.

    Your given reason being humans debasing themselves. Who is to judge that they would be debasing themselves by attending such events? Who makes that moral judgement, aside from law. Do the thousands of people who go to bull fighting (and no, your description of it was inaccuate), need this 'therapy' that you mention?


    Thanks

  7. #7
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    Re: Moral question?

    You did not address a single point I made un my pervious post.

    It's just a forum fella, relax, go out for a walk, get some coffee.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  8. #8
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    Re: Moral question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
    You did not address a single point I made un my pervious post.

    It's just a forum fella, relax, go out for a walk, get some coffee.
    ACTUALLY i DID..
    HERE IT ALL IS FOR YOUR EASY COSUMPTION.....

    "I have every right to object...it is called free speech..you dont seem like a dictator...but there you go!

    the politicians make law....judges adjudicate on it and their decisions reflect the elevated/depressed moral heirachy of the day ...

    The Church/civil rights movements define moral dogma initially..
    I will pray for you and
    I give up.....

    Where do you want me to send my puppies, chickens and kittens to?"


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
    Imo, Q...if you don't care about the animals, as you concede, then there are no grounds to actually object to it for you, then.

    And yet you do.

    A....Your given reason being humans debasing themselves. Who is to judge that they would be debasing themselves by attending such events? Who makes that moral judgement, aside from law. Do the thousands of people who go to bull fighting (and no, your description of it was inaccuate...sure... I am just Portuguese, what would I know about it...I just grew up surrounded by it...), need this 'therapy' that you mention?


    Thanks









    You misunderstod the context of the therapy comment which was also 2 post ago not last post...yes all people who delight in torture or watching violence need therapy.IMO


    I hope this helps
    Last edited by reentry; 08-07-2009 at 05:55 PM. Reason: too harsh and not very christian

  9. #9
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    Re: Moral question?

    I do not think that amending laws to permit acts of violence would be permissible, nor should they be.

    However, if each city of more than 50000 were to build a coliseum then feed christians to the lions, I might get a season pass'. :crazy1:

    What you are asking is not a moral question, but more of a societal standard that the population enforces upon itself. Travel to the mid east and see how dogs and cats are treated versus the US. Or in parts of China where dog is a food source. So, It's not a moral question.

    A moral question would be, should I lie a teensy bit on my admissions to get into Valley Forge Christian College? The moral answer would be no. Because I would be lying for perceptive personal gain, it would be against the christian moral standard, and though if it were found out that I lied, It would damage ones reputation. But one does not need be christian or religious to make a decision like this. Simply because it does not help the individual.

    Though, if not telling lies is an absolute moral law from christianity, it is a bad law.

  10. #10
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    Re: Moral question?

    how much of this kind of behavior goes on in other countries!? and like any other SPORT, without proper supervision it becomes ugly!? what does that say about human nature!? is it some kind of evolutionary instinct let loose!? or some kind of performance/ability identification!? i'm a nobody but my chicken is king therefore i am king!? what was i saying.......oh! excuse me, the lovers lane ad was running on tv!? the nice thing about a chicken fight is.......you can eat the loser!? and of course, if this were allowed in america, it would probably lead to the breeding of a poopless superchicken!? so the plus there is it could feed the world by providing exceptional entertainment!? and you'd think they would run that ad more often!? i know i never get tired of it!? : :spin2:
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  11. #11
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    Re: Moral question?

    (I'm poor at expressing tone in text some days, I'm taking the tone of geniuen questions)
    Have you considered the tertiary effects?

    un-controlled gambling historically has lead to organized crime and crime in general. A cock fight is very un-controlled and would easily lead to an increase in organized crime. This is another reason why the government tightly controls gambling.

    Animal fighting general combines the aspect of extreme cruelty and crime. Two things that should be morally avoided.

  12. #12
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    Re: Moral question?

    Morality is based within social constructs. "Society as a whole" is a term that is defined within the scope a particular sector of society that you decide, regardless of how inaccurate or accurate that definition may be. "Against the law" is not synonymous with "immoral".

    "Society as a whole" can be geographical, political, and religous, to name a few.
    Immorality can be defined by an individual, small group, large group, community, or country, and still not be enforced to satisfy 100% of that sector.

    Some groups think it is immoral to cut down trees. Some groups think it is moral to form lynch mobs. Both think the laws should be changed to satisfy their moral view so they can impose their morality on others.

    Humans historically are attracted to violence...in whatever form. The violence of the arena satisfies that human trait.

    Laws to curtail the violence are the result of groups imposing their morality on larger segments of society. The arena still exists (in sports)....and the people still attend. But the violence is reduced (from that of ancient Rome), creating a sort of compromise of morality.

    The chicken doesn't feel an immoral injustice. He simply acts on his instinct, based on his environment and what stimulus has been provided him by the gambling humans.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Moral question?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparques View Post
    Humans historically are attracted to violence...in whatever form. The violence of the arena satisfies that human trait. .
    Well said.

    I think that homo sapien is predisposed toward aggressoin or violence, in one form or another.

    The media is awash with scenes of violence, killing, and torture, be they real or fictional, the image of violence plays a large part, in everyone's life.

    But even before those days, man just found other ways to get their fix of violence, so all that has really changed has been the method.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

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    Re: Moral question?

    When I was in Japan, I enjoyed watching a mongoose fight one of their poisonous varieties of snakes. Bets were permitted. Since the mongoose seldom lost, it seemed okay. Everybody hates snakes, especially the poisonous ones. Very rarely, the mongoose loses.

    In the fight I saw, the snake was done for as soon as it made its first strike. The mongoose simply avoided the strike and moved to the snake's head, what would be the "throat" I suppose, and it was over faster than I could actually watch it, or so it seemed.

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    Re: Moral question?

    Yesterday, I was reflecting on this thread a bit and was thinking about the movie, "The Deerhunter", where Christopher Walken was participating in a suicide game where people were betting on whether the player would kill themselves.

    I remember the first time I saw that movie and the feelings that I felt. That it was terribly wrong...that I winced when the gun fired....and that I was intrigued by the entire thing.

    Kinda weird....almost like being attracted to something that repulsed me.

    We are strange creatures.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Moral question?

    People are often drawn to that which is bad for them, be that relationships, diet, drugs, etc.

    You name it.

    If it is destructive for us, we will be drawn to it.

    YWFT
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

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