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  1. #1
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    JFK Assassination

    ODDITIES OF THE JFK ASSASSINATION


    Published in Athens Human Rights Festival, p. 8 (May 8 & 9, 1993).
    Oliver Stone's movie JFK has reawakened interest in the most traumatic political murder of our time--the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas, on Nov. 22, 1963. That murder is still unsolved. The Warren Commission's conclusion that 24-year old Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, shot and killed President Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository was based on an inadequate and hurried investigation and never accepted by the American people, and is now completely rejected by almost all serious researchers of the assassination.
    The identity of the murderers of President Kennedy may never be known and the full truth of the assassination may never be uncovered. Over the years, however, there has been steady progress in the search for the truth about the murder of John F. Kennedy. Since the Warren Commission issued its final report in 1964, investigations of the assassination by governmental agencies as well as by private citizens have disclosed a number of important, documented facts unavailable to or overlooked by the Warren Commission. Many of these facts are downright odd. They seem as inexplicable as the assassination itself. Yet they help throw light on the violent death of our 35th president and thereby assist us to understand exactly what happened on Nov. 22, 1963, and why. The more the facts of the assassination are known, the greater the likelihood is that the mysteries surrounding America's crime of the century eventually will be cleared up.
    In order to contribute to the spread of knowledge about the slaying of President Kennedy, I am setting forth below 10 numbered paragraphs containing a small sampling of the numerous oddities concerning the Kennedy assassination. To dispel any doubts about the accuracy of my facts, I have included references to the reliable sources which confirm them.
    1. In 1963 Secret Service regulations governing escort security for presidential motorcades provided that buildings along the motorcade route had to be inspected whenever the motorcade route was a standard one that had been used in the past. President Kennedy's Dallas motorcade route had been the standard route for motorcades for years; President Franklin D. Roosevelt, for example, had visited Dallas in 1936 and traversed the same route in a motorcade (although in the opposite direction). Nevertheless, on Nov. 22, 1963, when President Kennedy visited Dallas, the Secret Service's own guidelines were violated, and no inspection of the buildings along the motorcade route was made. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 525-27 (1979).
    2. In accordance with its standard procedures, the Secret Service rejected a request by the Dallas Police Department to insert into the motorcade, three cars behind President Kennedy's limousine, a police squad car filled with homicide detectives. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 529-30 (1979).
    3. Compared with security precautions taken during President Kennedy's motorcade through Houston the day before the Dallas assassination, the physical protection provided during the Dallas motorcade was, in the words of a congressional committee that reinvestigated the assassination, "uniquely insecure." In Houston on Nov. 21, six police motorcycles flanked the presidential limousine; in Dallas on Nov. 22, on orders of the Secret Service, only four motorcycles were assigned to escort the limousine, and the police motorcyclists were instructed to remain to the rear of the limousine rather than flank it. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 527-29 (1979).
    4. During the Dallas motorcade there were supposed to be four motorcycles escorting the presidential limousine--two at the right rear of the limousine, and two at the left rear. However, when shooting began, only three of the motorcycles were in place; one of the motorcycles supposed to be on the right rear of the limousine was in fact several cars back in the motorcade, thereby weakening security on the president's right side. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 528-29 (1979).
    5. Frames 1 through 132 of the Zapruder film, the famous color motion picture of the assassination taken by Abraham Zapruder on his home movie camera, show an odd and inexplicable event occurring approximately ten or fifteen seconds before the burst of gunfire that killed President Kennedy. Preceded by a formation of three policemen on motorcycles, the presidential motorcade is about to enter Dealey Plaza, about to make the slow, fatal turn from Houston St. to Elm St. Suddenly, however, one of the three lead motorcyclists disappears from the scene: he breaks formation, leaves the motorcade, and fails to make the turn onto Elm. Evidently he continued along Houston while the motorcade made the turn from Houston to Elm. The Warren Commission did not investigate this bizarre, suspicious event, and it is not even mentioned in the Commission's final report. Source: P. Model and R. Groden, JFK: The Case for Conspiracy, p. 141 (1977); R. Groden and H. Livingstone, High Treason, p. 135 (2nd ed. 1989).
    6. At the time the presidential limousine came under fire, the two Secret Service agents in the front seat failed miserably to perform the protective functions expected of them. Under Secret Service regulations the agent on the passenger side of the front seat was supposed to protect President Kennedy by pushing the president down or by throwing his body over the president's. The agent did neither. The agent driving the limousine was, under Secret Service regulations, supposed to accelerate the limousine and speed away from dangers such as sniper fire. However, during the entire time that rifle bullets were whizzing into the open limousine the driver failed to accelerate, and may have even slowed down. Films taken during the assassination show that the limousine's brake lights were on and remained on until after President Kennedy had been fatally injured. Source: J. Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, pp. 12-15; 35; 244-45 (1989); R. Groden and H. Livingstone, High Treason, pp. 13-19; 127-28 (2nd ed. 1989).
    7. The Secret Service agents in the escort car immediately behind then-Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson's limousine behaved far more commendably than the Secret Service agents in the escort car immediately behind President's Kennedy's limousine. Specifically, the agents protecting Johnson (who was in the motorcade two cars back from the presidential limousine) reacted much more quickly to the assassination. A still photograph taken by AP photographer James Altgens after the shooting had begun but before President Kennedy had been mortally wounded shows that the alert agents in the car behind Johnson are already opening the left rear door of their car, whereas the agents in the car following the President are still standing on the car's running boards, looking around but doing nothing, even though the president is in distress and is grabbing at his throat. A cropped version of the Altgens photograph is reproduced on page 113 of the final report of Warren Commission. The excised portion of the photograph is the portion depicting Johnson's limousine and the escort car behind, its left rear door opened almost all the way. Source: H. Weisberg, Whitewash, pp. 50, 202-03 (1965); J. Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, pp. 244-45 (1989).
    8. The Warren Commission view that an assassin on the sixth floor of the Depository waited to begin shooting until President Kennedy was on Elm St. makes no sense. An assassin firing at President Kennedy from the sixth floor window which the Warren Commission said Lee Harvey Oswald used would have been foolish to wait to shoot, as Oswald allegedly did, until the presidential limousine had left Houston St., entered Elm St., and was moving downhill and away from the window, with an elm tree blocking the view for several seconds. From that window it would have been much easier to shoot President Kennedy while his limousine, moving slowly along Houston St. for one block, approached the window, from which the view of Houston St. was superlative and unobstructed. Why would an assassin pass over an easy shot and wait until the limousine was in such a position that even expert marksmen would find it extremely difficult to hit the president? Source: H. Weisberg, Whitewash, pp. 51, 201 (1965); J. Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas, pp. 190-91 (1967); R. Groden and H. Livingstone, High Treason, p. 135 (2nd ed. 1989).
    9. Originally, President Kennedy was scheduled to receive an honorary degree from Texas Christian University in Ft. Worth on the morning of Nov. 22. After the honorary degree ceremony the president was scheduled to fly to Dallas for a midday luncheon. Amazingly, however, on Nov. 1 the Board of Trustees of TCU held a meeting and decided not to award President Kennedy an honorary degree. The decision to refuse to grant the degree to President Kennedy appears to have resulted from petty, political bickering. If the trustees had voted to issue the honorary degree and the ceremony at TCU had not been cancelled, there probably would have been some delay in the president's arrival at Dallas, the Dallas motorcade would have taken place later than it did, and the assassination might have been frustrated or rendered more difficult. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 512-14 (1979).
    10. The Warren Commission was never given access to the military service file of the alleged assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, who had previously served in the Marine Corps. In 1973 the Department of Defense "routinely" destroyed Lee Harvey Oswald's military service file, allegedly as part of a general program to eliminate its files pertaining to nonmilitary personnel. It is not possible to determine who accomplished the actual physical destruction of the file. It is also not possible to identify the individual ordering the destruction of the file. Because of the destruction of the file, it is impossible to determine whether, among other things, Oswald had connections with military intelligence. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations, 95th Cong., 2nd Sess., pp. 223-24 (1979).
    Last updated Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:08:46 PM

  2. #2
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Just about everything in Oliver Stones (JFK) was debunked as Hollywood movie making magic.
    It's sad that the American people find a genuine yearning to find out the truth based on flat out lies.
    I watched the movie years ago, and like so many others, was positive our government had covered up the truth.
    After much research, and after watching so many documentaries dispelling the conspiracy whack nuts theories, I'm convinced Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.
    There was no magic bullet, a point made over and over again in the Movie JFK.
    The bullet was not pristine.
    Lee Harvey Oswald had the training and showed the proper skills to get off three shots within 8 seconds.
    There were only three shots, not four.
    There were no connections to the mob or Cuba.
    Jack Ruby acted alone for a shot at immortality, and I guess he achieved his goal.
    The theory that Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by ruby, on orders by the mod, is ridiculous. Why wasn't Ruby killed, and the person who killed Ruby would have to be killed and so on and so on.
    We as Americans, heck as citizens of this world, don't like the idea that a random crazy act can take the life of a beloved American president.
    We want to believe there's something else behind this chaotic event that took JFK's life.
    The truth is that it was simply a random act of violence perpetrated by one sick individual.
    Last edited by Texton; 07-19-2009 at 08:28 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Hey. Would you guys pay attention!


    This article only says that the movie JFK brought attention to the assassination.

    It not the source of the research.

    I thought that was how soupnuts was confused and this latest poster is as dumb as he.

    Read more than the first sentence folks.


    This is research that spoke to Secret Service Agents.

    It HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MOVIE.

    GOT IT?


    In order to contribute to the spread of knowledge about the slaying of President Kennedy, I am setting forth below 10 numbered paragraphs containing a small sampling of the numerous oddities concerning the Kennedy assassination. To dispel any doubts about the accuracy of my facts, I have included references to the reliable sources which confirm them.


    NONE OF THESE SOURCES ARE THE MOVIE "JFK."
    Last edited by eflteacher; 07-19-2009 at 02:57 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    My response addressed both Oliver Stones movie and this so-called new evidence talking to Secret Service agents, since both fall under the category of conspiracy whack nuts and their theories.
    So, you're welcome.

  5. #5
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by Texton View Post
    My response addressed both Oliver Stones movie and this so-called new evidence talking to Secret Service agents, since both fall under the category of conspiracy whack nuts and their theories.
    So, you're welcome.

    Actually, your method was to discredit the testimony of the dozen or so people who debunk your lies regarding JFK's security by diverting attention using the movie JFK.

    When that didn't work, you called people who don't agree with you names.


    EVEN THOUGH in this case I was not sighting the movie JFK , I am going to challenge you by asking you what specifically is inaccurate in the movie:

    My position is that while it is not 100% accurate, it is not 100% wrong either.

    Since I am going against someone who believes in something that IS 100% wrong, I am a winner out of the starting gate.

    Let's begin.

  6. #6
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by eflteacher View Post
    ODDITIES OF THE JFK ASSASSINATION


    Published in Athens Human Rights Festival, p. 8 (May 8 & 9, 1993).
    Oliver Stone's movie JFK has reawakened interest in the most traumatic political murder of our time--the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas, on Nov. 22, 1963. That murder is still unsolved. The Warren Commission's conclusion that 24-year old Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, shot and killed President Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository was based on an inadequate and hurried investigation and never accepted by the American people, and is now completely rejected by almost all serious researchers of the assassination.
    The identity of the murderers of President Kennedy may never be known and the full truth of the assassination may never be uncovered. Over the years, however, there has been steady progress in the search for the truth about the murder of John F. Kennedy. Since the Warren Commission issued its final report in 1964, investigations of the assassination by governmental agencies as well as by private citizens have disclosed a number of important, documented facts unavailable to or overlooked by the Warren Commission. Many of these facts are downright odd. They seem as inexplicable as the assassination itself. Yet they help throw light on the violent death of our 35th president and thereby assist us to understand exactly what happened on Nov. 22, 1963, and why. The more the facts of the assassination are known, the greater the likelihood is that the mysteries surrounding America's crime of the century eventually will be cleared up.
    In order to contribute to the spread of knowledge about the slaying of President Kennedy, I am setting forth below 10 numbered paragraphs containing a small sampling of the numerous oddities concerning the Kennedy assassination. To dispel any doubts about the accuracy of my facts, I have included references to the reliable sources which confirm them.
    1. In 1963 Secret Service regulations governing escort security for presidential motorcades provided that buildings along the motorcade route had to be inspected whenever the motorcade route was a standard one that had been used in the past. President Kennedy's Dallas motorcade route had been the standard route for motorcades for years; President Franklin D. Roosevelt, for example, had visited Dallas in 1936 and traversed the same route in a motorcade (although in the opposite direction). Nevertheless, on Nov. 22, 1963, when President Kennedy visited Dallas, the Secret Service's own guidelines were violated, and no inspection of the buildings along the motorcade route was made. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 525-27 (1979).
    2. In accordance with its standard procedures, the Secret Service rejected a request by the Dallas Police Department to insert into the motorcade, three cars behind President Kennedy's limousine, a police squad car filled with homicide detectives. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 529-30 (1979).
    3. Compared with security precautions taken during President Kennedy's motorcade through Houston the day before the Dallas assassination, the physical protection provided during the Dallas motorcade was, in the words of a congressional committee that reinvestigated the assassination, "uniquely insecure." In Houston on Nov. 21, six police motorcycles flanked the presidential limousine; in Dallas on Nov. 22, on orders of the Secret Service, only four motorcycles were assigned to escort the limousine, and the police motorcyclists were instructed to remain to the rear of the limousine rather than flank it. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 527-29 (1979).
    4. During the Dallas motorcade there were supposed to be four motorcycles escorting the presidential limousine--two at the right rear of the limousine, and two at the left rear. However, when shooting began, only three of the motorcycles were in place; one of the motorcycles supposed to be on the right rear of the limousine was in fact several cars back in the motorcade, thereby weakening security on the president's right side. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 528-29 (1979).
    5. Frames 1 through 132 of the Zapruder film, the famous color motion picture of the assassination taken by Abraham Zapruder on his home movie camera, show an odd and inexplicable event occurring approximately ten or fifteen seconds before the burst of gunfire that killed President Kennedy. Preceded by a formation of three policemen on motorcycles, the presidential motorcade is about to enter Dealey Plaza, about to make the slow, fatal turn from Houston St. to Elm St. Suddenly, however, one of the three lead motorcyclists disappears from the scene: he breaks formation, leaves the motorcade, and fails to make the turn onto Elm. Evidently he continued along Houston while the motorcade made the turn from Houston to Elm. The Warren Commission did not investigate this bizarre, suspicious event, and it is not even mentioned in the Commission's final report. Source: P. Model and R. Groden, JFK: The Case for Conspiracy, p. 141 (1977); R. Groden and H. Livingstone, High Treason, p. 135 (2nd ed. 1989).
    6. At the time the presidential limousine came under fire, the two Secret Service agents in the front seat failed miserably to perform the protective functions expected of them. Under Secret Service regulations the agent on the passenger side of the front seat was supposed to protect President Kennedy by pushing the president down or by throwing his body over the president's. The agent did neither. The agent driving the limousine was, under Secret Service regulations, supposed to accelerate the limousine and speed away from dangers such as sniper fire. However, during the entire time that rifle bullets were whizzing into the open limousine the driver failed to accelerate, and may have even slowed down. Films taken during the assassination show that the limousine's brake lights were on and remained on until after President Kennedy had been fatally injured. Source: J. Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, pp. 12-15; 35; 244-45 (1989); R. Groden and H. Livingstone, High Treason, pp. 13-19; 127-28 (2nd ed. 1989).
    7. The Secret Service agents in the escort car immediately behind then-Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson's limousine behaved far more commendably than the Secret Service agents in the escort car immediately behind President's Kennedy's limousine. Specifically, the agents protecting Johnson (who was in the motorcade two cars back from the presidential limousine) reacted much more quickly to the assassination. A still photograph taken by AP photographer James Altgens after the shooting had begun but before President Kennedy had been mortally wounded shows that the alert agents in the car behind Johnson are already opening the left rear door of their car, whereas the agents in the car following the President are still standing on the car's running boards, looking around but doing nothing, even though the president is in distress and is grabbing at his throat. A cropped version of the Altgens photograph is reproduced on page 113 of the final report of Warren Commission. The excised portion of the photograph is the portion depicting Johnson's limousine and the escort car behind, its left rear door opened almost all the way. Source: H. Weisberg, Whitewash, pp. 50, 202-03 (1965); J. Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, pp. 244-45 (1989).
    8. The Warren Commission view that an assassin on the sixth floor of the Depository waited to begin shooting until President Kennedy was on Elm St. makes no sense. An assassin firing at President Kennedy from the sixth floor window which the Warren Commission said Lee Harvey Oswald used would have been foolish to wait to shoot, as Oswald allegedly did, until the presidential limousine had left Houston St., entered Elm St., and was moving downhill and away from the window, with an elm tree blocking the view for several seconds. From that window it would have been much easier to shoot President Kennedy while his limousine, moving slowly along Houston St. for one block, approached the window, from which the view of Houston St. was superlative and unobstructed. Why would an assassin pass over an easy shot and wait until the limousine was in such a position that even expert marksmen would find it extremely difficult to hit the president? Source: H. Weisberg, Whitewash, pp. 51, 201 (1965); J. Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas, pp. 190-91 (1967); R. Groden and H. Livingstone, High Treason, p. 135 (2nd ed. 1989).
    9. Originally, President Kennedy was scheduled to receive an honorary degree from Texas Christian University in Ft. Worth on the morning of Nov. 22. After the honorary degree ceremony the president was scheduled to fly to Dallas for a midday luncheon. Amazingly, however, on Nov. 1 the Board of Trustees of TCU held a meeting and decided not to award President Kennedy an honorary degree. The decision to refuse to grant the degree to President Kennedy appears to have resulted from petty, political bickering. If the trustees had voted to issue the honorary degree and the ceremony at TCU had not been cancelled, there probably would have been some delay in the president's arrival at Dallas, the Dallas motorcade would have taken place later than it did, and the assassination might have been frustrated or rendered more difficult. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Investigation of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, vol. 11, pp. 512-14 (1979).
    10. The Warren Commission was never given access to the military service file of the alleged assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, who had previously served in the Marine Corps. In 1973 the Department of Defense "routinely" destroyed Lee Harvey Oswald's military service file, allegedly as part of a general program to eliminate its files pertaining to nonmilitary personnel. It is not possible to determine who accomplished the actual physical destruction of the file. It is also not possible to identify the individual ordering the destruction of the file. Because of the destruction of the file, it is impossible to determine whether, among other things, Oswald had connections with military intelligence. Source: U. S. House of Representatives, House Select Committee on Assassinations, Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations, 95th Cong., 2nd Sess., pp. 223-24 (1979).
    Last updated Thursday, January 01, 1970 12:00:00 AMLast updated Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:08:46 PM
    Careful reading will show that much of these oddities were not odd at all for example paragraph two states " in accordance with procedures ". Duh! the Secret Service followed it's procedures when rejecting the Dallas PD'd request.

    IN paragraph one it claims that the agent in the passenger seat did not climb or leap over governor Connally to cover Kennedy. Well maybe because Connally was in the way.

    There are oddities in any significant event if you look deep enough you will find strange coincidences oddities connected to any event.

    This is all proof of nothing.

  7. #7
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    This is another great moment from Soup that we can not miss.

    Regarding Roy Kellerman's inaction ( he was the Secret Service Agent in the front passenger seat)

    Soup says " its alright that he didn't leap into the back seat to help the injured Kennedy because Connelly was in the way!"


    Good grief. This is a Secret Service Agent whose job is to protect the president.

    But you are right, Soup. Darn , I guess it was just too much trouble to get to the president. After all he could have hurt himself ( Kellerman) and he may even have injured ( the shot up) Connelly too!

    Keep trying Soup. This is fun.

  8. #8
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by eflteacher View Post
    This is another great moment from Soup that we can not miss.

    Regarding Roy Kellerman's inaction ( he was the Secret Service Agent in the front passenger seat)

    Soup says " its alright that he didn't leap into the back seat to help the injured Kennedy because Connelly was in the way!"


    Good grief. This is a Secret Service Agent whose job is to protect the president.

    But you are right, Soup. Darn , I guess it was just too much trouble to get to the president. After all he could have hurt himself ( Kellerman) and he may even have injured ( the shot up) Connelly too!

    Keep trying Soup. This is fun.
    I m not trying I am winning. Saying someone was SUPPOSED to do something is not proof that there was a conspiracy.

    Furthermore one cannot climb over seats and people in a moving vehicle effectively.

    You have no evidence.

  9. #9

    Re: JFK Assassination

    I donít think anyone has taken the simple path to an explanation. The undisputable facts were probably so mundane that the story they could tell us was never heard until now. Most assassinations occur when the assassin stalks his/her target. The victim usually doesnít go out of their way to simplify the work of their assassin. Yet, JFK took the time to drive by his assassinís place of work and during work hours for that matter. Only one other assassination occurred that way. RFK was also thoughtful enough to assist in his tragic end by visiting his assassinís workplace. And still people wonder if their deaths were the result of a conspiracy. There are only about 100 or so people that are disturbed enough to kill the president/presidential candidate at any given moment and we know from experience that most cannot penetrate the defenses protecting these men/women. To accidentally visit one these 100 disturbed individuals, given the millions of addresses that exist in our nation, calculates to an improbable result. Yet both brothers died with the same improbable situation in play Ė they happened to visit their assassinís place of work and did so during business hours. Though statistically extremely slim, I realize that these circumstances fall short of proving a conspiracy. Still, I bet right now even the most ardent supporters of the view Oswald acted alone are questioning this position.

  10. #10
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by originlifeanddeath View Post
    I donít think anyone has taken the simple path to an explanation. The undisputable facts were probably so mundane that the story they could tell us was never heard until now. Most assassinations occur when the assassin stalks his/her target. The victim usually doesnít go out of their way to simplify the work of their assassin. Yet, JFK took the time to drive by his assassinís place of work and during work hours for that matter. Only one other assassination occurred that way. RFK was also thoughtful enough to assist in his tragic end by visiting his assassinís workplace. And still people wonder if their deaths were the result of a conspiracy. There are only about 100 or so people that are disturbed enough to kill the president/presidential candidate at any given moment and we know from experience that most cannot penetrate the defenses protecting these men/women. To accidentally visit one these 100 disturbed individuals, given the millions of addresses that exist in our nation, calculates to an improbable result. Yet both brothers died with the same improbable situation in play Ė they happened to visit their assassinís place of work and did so during business hours. Though statistically extremely slim, I realize that these circumstances fall short of proving a conspiracy. Still, I bet right now even the most ardent supporters of the view Oswald acted alone are questioning this position.
    Actually you are not accurate nor is it all that simple.

    Assassinations most often occur in unpredictable circumstances. In fact a determined assassin who stalks his target and strikes after careful preparation is not so common as you suggest. Very often assassinations are spur of the moment ideas or at least not carefully planned. This is why they often fail.

    You forget that Lincoln also took the time to visit the place of employment where his assassin had a job.

    Your implication that this is against the odds is also not accurate. The more a political figure travels the more likely they are to encounter an assassin on the assassins home turf and little or no stalking is needed.

  11. #11
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by originlifeanddeath View Post
    I donít think anyone has taken the simple path to an explanation. The undisputable facts were probably so mundane that the story they could tell us was never heard until now. Most assassinations occur when the assassin stalks his/her target. The victim usually doesnít go out of their way to simplify the work of their assassin. Yet, JFK took the time to drive by his assassinís place of work and during work hours for that matter. Only one other assassination occurred that way. RFK was also thoughtful enough to assist in his tragic end by visiting his assassinís workplace. And still people wonder if their deaths were the result of a conspiracy. There are only about 100 or so people that are disturbed enough to kill the president/presidential candidate at any given moment and we know from experience that most cannot penetrate the defenses protecting these men/women. To accidentally visit one these 100 disturbed individuals, given the millions of addresses that exist in our nation, calculates to an improbable result. Yet both brothers died with the same improbable situation in play Ė they happened to visit their assassinís place of work and did so during business hours. Though statistically extremely slim, I realize that these circumstances fall short of proving a conspiracy. Still, I bet right now even the most ardent supporters of the view Oswald acted alone are questioning this position.
    Is it really all that unlikely?

    How many houses does the president pass each and every day on average?

    Let's pick a low number, say, 100, and lets say that he passes 10,000 a unique houses per year.

    There are about 100 million houses in the USA.

    There are 100 people that want to kill the president.

    The probability of any 1 house belonging to an assassin is 100/100,000,000.

    The probability of all 10,000 houses not belonging to a serial killer is (1-100/100,000,000)^10,000

    Which is equal to almost exactly 99%.


    So given your very own numbers, the probability of a president driving past at least one house in which one of the hundred assassins lives is 1% per year. Unlikely? Yes. But not conspiracy theory unlikely.



    Just because most assassins choose not to kill their target from their workplace or home doesn't mean that they didn't have that opportunity if they wanted.

  12. 08-11-2009, 03:22 AM


  13. #12
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Agent Roberts admitted recognizing "Oswald's" first shot as a rifle blast,27 as the Altgens photo confirms, he made a mysterious transmission via radio microphone that is not accounted for in his reports or in the official record.28 Instead of offering a shout of alarm, alert, or orders to his agents to do something that their own initiative lacked for some reason, ie., protective action, he did nothing to help the wounded President. Roberts' recall of Agent Ready is well documented,29 although we have...
    Cover-up number four: The alleged speed of the limousine and the alleged distance between the two cars (9-11 mph and five feet in reality, not the 20-25 mph and 20-25 feet stated in both SAs Roberts and Agent Ready's reports)
    was used as the pretext for the recall of Ready.30 Taking everything cited to the point into account, there is still another factor that has escaped virtually everyone, and this "factor" came about quite accidentally. In Groden and Livingstone's High Treason, (pages 16 and 487 of the Berkley edition, respectively), it was noted that "Emory Roberts ordered the agents not to move", which I took to be an unintended overstatement at the time. So, I decided to read the passage to Sam Kinney who told me, "Exactly right, and I'm involved in that, too!" Besides the Love Field recall of Agent Rybka and Dealey Plaza recall of Ready, Roberts also immobilized the other agents at a critical juncture in the shooting, causing a non- JFK agent (Clint Hill) to react too late to do anything but cover the corpse of the President.31

  14. #13
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    Jul 2008
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    1,115

    Re: JFK Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by theme View Post
    Agent Roberts admitted recognizing "Oswald's" first shot as a rifle blast,27 as the Altgens photo confirms, he made a mysterious transmission via radio microphone that is not accounted for in his reports or in the official record.28 Instead of offering a shout of alarm, alert, or orders to his agents to do something that their own initiative lacked for some reason, ie., protective action, he did nothing to help the wounded President. Roberts' recall of Agent Ready is well documented,29 although we have...
    Cover-up number four: The alleged speed of the limousine and the alleged distance between the two cars (9-11 mph and five feet in reality, not the 20-25 mph and 20-25 feet stated in both SAs Roberts and Agent Ready's reports)
    was used as the pretext for the recall of Ready.30 Taking everything cited to the point into account, there is still another factor that has escaped virtually everyone, and this "factor" came about quite accidentally. In Groden and Livingstone's High Treason, (pages 16 and 487 of the Berkley edition, respectively), it was noted that "Emory Roberts ordered the agents not to move", which I took to be an unintended overstatement at the time. So, I decided to read the passage to Sam Kinney who told me, "Exactly right, and I'm involved in that, too!" Besides the Love Field recall of Agent Rybka and Dealey Plaza recall of Ready, Roberts also immobilized the other agents at a critical juncture in the shooting, causing a non- JFK agent (Clint Hill) to react too late to do anything but cover the corpse of the President.31
    There is no evidenced of such an order not to move.

    Like so much else in the book High Treason it is manufactured nonsense.

    That book has long since been debunked ripped apart and proven to be more fiction tan anything else.

  15. #14
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    O-Lover Stone is a en idiot, Anti-American ass wipe.

  16. #15

    Re: JFK Assassination

    Well, let's look at the ten points one-by-one to see if they actually lead anywhere. Remember however that it takes a conspiracy believer 10 seconds to make 10 challenges and it can often take 10 hours to compose 10 sufficient answers.

    I will not include the entire initial statement on all ten points:

    1. Points one thru five all basically make the same claim--that the Secret Service was somehow involved in the assassination of Kennedy. Of course the motorcycle escorts being one short at the time of the assassinatin is pointless and nothing more than a red herring, since a fourth motorcycle wouldn't have blocked the path of any bullet(s) to strike Kennedy or Connally anyway. The original author simply noticed that one motorcycle patrolman was missing and made a mountain out of a molehill. But all five of these first five points are moot anyway until a connection between Oswald and the Secret Service can be made. Of course even conspiracy believers are forced to admit that no one has been able in 46 years to link Oswald with the Secret Service in ANY way have they? Without a connection between Oswald and the Secret Service how would the Secret Service know when to allegedly slacken their protection in order that their Chief Executive could be murdered? And by implication this theory admits Oswald's guilt doesn't it? So until an investigator can somehow link Oswald with the Secret Service it is an exercise in futility to show any alleged Secret Service laxity in protection in Dealey Plaza.

    2. Point 6 is an old one but it really doesn't reflect real world realities does it? Greer and Kellerman had less than nine seconds to hear the rifle shots, recognize them as such, remove their seat belts, climb from the front seats (leaving the limousine without a driver if Greer also decides to shield the President) and stop any further bullets. One must keep in mind that rifle shots sound much differently in real life than many assume. Several of the ear witnesses in Dealey Plaza did not even recognize the initial shot(s) as such until it was too late. The James Altgens photograph which is referred to in the initial questions shows the limousine AFTER the second rifle shot has already been fired because both Kennedy and Connally are clearly reacting to the respective wounds, yet NO ONE in the crowd is seen to appear in any distress. Even the Secret Service agents in the follow-up car are trying to figure out where the shots originated (if they were shots at all). Bo NO ONE in the crowd is seen with hands over mouths, none are screaming and pointing, and none have dropped to the ground, yet it is about four seconds after the first shot was fired. The noise of the crowd, the noise of the motorcycles in the background, the noise of the limousine, and the distance from the rifle to the ears of Greer and Kellerman all can account for their delayed reaction time. Shortly before the third shot was fired at Z-frame 312 Greer and Kellerman are seen to both turn around in their seats and recognize that the limousine was in fact under fire and at that point they react, but it was too late. Welcome to the real world. The fact that in the vice-presidential-area of the motorcade people reacted more quickly means nothing more than they were directly beneath the gunman when he was firing. Of course they would have heard the rifle shots more clearly, Oswald was only about 90-100 feet away from them at that time. But in the real world different people react differently to the same stimulus.

    3. Point 8 is by far the weakest of all points because of two reasons: first of all it is false in its initial premise. As the car approached the TSBD along Houston Street all eyes on Houston (once the President had passed them) were staring directly at the facade of the TSBD and ALL would have seen Oswald as he shot--just like Robert Jackson did. Additionally Governor Connally was sitting in front of Kennedy, thus blocking much of Kennedy's body (and hence Oswald's torso.) BUT, if the gunman waits until the turn on to Elm street they have an unobstructed view of Kennedy (once the oak tree is passed beneath) all the way to the triple underpass and the tree would provide added protection for potential witnesses looking for the gunman.
    Secondly, the fact that an individual didn't make one decision doesn't preclude them from kaing a second decision. For instance, let's suppose an NFL quarterback finds their team on the one-yard line with only three feet left to score but it is fourth down. This team has a Pro-Bowl halfback and a Pro-Bowl fullback, yet the quarterback chooses to pass to a tight end and the end result is a score. Monday morning quarterbacks can second guess the quarterback's decision to pass until the cows come home. And while conventional wisdom may dictate that a handoff to one of the all-star running backs be the best move, it does not suddenly mean that the decision to pass didn't take place does it? That is silly and illogical. While some make argue until doomsday that a Houston street shot was better that doesn't negate the fact that the shots came when the limousine was on Elm street does it? Of course not. It is a moot point that really doesn't have any legs--it doesn't lead anywhere.

    4. The 9th point is almost too silly to even address. As with all conspiracy theories, the conspiracy net has to (by definition) get bigger and bigger with each new theory hatched. Are we to really believe that now the faculty of Texas Christian University are now a part of the conspiracy to murder Kennedy? I cannot even bring myself to respond to this claim.

    5. Point number 10 is yet anoth red herring that leads nowhere. There has never been a political assas that we know more about than Lee Harvey Oswald. The fact that we don't know everything does not erase what we DO know. We know that Oswald reached the level of Sharpshooter in the Marines (second-highest rank possible for marksmanship) we know that he was experienced in handling, dismantling, reassembling, aiming, firing, and hitting a target with a rifle. We KNOW that Oswald purchased, owned, handled, and left finger and palm prints on the only rifle matched to the bullet(s) and fragments found after the assassination. Therefore a few military records that are no longer available do not negate what we DO know do they?

  17. #16
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    Re: JFK Assassination

    Oliver Stone's movie JFK has reawakened interest in the most traumatic political murder of our time--the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas, on Nov. 22, 1963. That murder is still unsolved.
    The murder was solved....

    1. Oswald did it. He had the motive, he proved intent and he was (despite the constant stupidity of you cool aid drinkers) well accomplished in shooting rifles, both in his youth and in the Marines.

    2. JFK caused it. He fought against the Secret Service. He bitched out Service Chief Rufus Youngblood about how "choked" the secret service protection made him. He ordered the agents to stay off his en car that day.

    3. JFK's back brace caused it. JFK wore a canvas back brace with metal stays that kept him upright in his seat.

    4. Oliver tard Stone is a bull shit artist and Vietnam dope smoking ****** who's hate of America is well known.

    case is en closed, JFK is dead, come out of your Mommy's basement you dumb s!

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