+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 104

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans
    Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    by Alan Miller, alan.miller@PatriotsQuestion911.com
    Official Account of 9/11: “Terribly Flawed,” “Laced with Contradictions,” “a Joke,” “a Cover-up”
    May 18, 2009 – More than 40 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency veterans have
    severely criticized the official account of 9/11 and most have called for a new investigation. It is
    outrageous that most Americans are entirely unaware of their publicly stated concerns -- a direct
    result of the refusal of national print and broadcast news organizations to cover this extremely
    important issue. There is no denying the credibility of these individuals or their loyalty to their
    country as demonstrated by their years of service collecting and analyzing information and
    planning and carrying out operations critical to the national security of the United States.
    These 41 individuals formerly served in the U.S. State Department, the National Security
    Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Federal
    Aviation Administration, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the branches of the U.S.
    Military. They are listed below by their branch of service.
    U.S. State Department
    Terrell E. Arnold, MA – Former Deputy Director of Counter-
    Terrorism and Emergency Planning, U.S. State Department. Mr.
    Arnold is a leading expert on terrorism and counter-terrorism and
    the author of several books on the subjects. In an extensive
    article in July 2007, Mr. Arnold wrote, “Washington leadership
    keeps the American people fixated on the events of 9/11. They
    have brought us no closer than we were on September 12, 2001,
    to resolving how it was executed and by what enemy. They tell us
    repeatedly that it was the work of al Qaida, but they have yet to
    show us the proofs. They told us the official version of what
    happened that day, but their story is laced with contradictions,
    and the facts visible on the ground at the time belie much of the
    official account. ... As an alleged post 9/11 defense, the War on
    Terrorism is a gigantic fraud.” 1
    When asked in an interview in February 2009, why he doubted
    the official account of 9/11, Mr. Arnold responded, “The nature of
    events in New York. The buildings falling down. I'm not satisfied by the notion that planes hitting
    buildings constructed as these would have caused them to collapse. The last building to fall was
    not even attacked. … The sheer mechanics of the event. The chances of two buildings of that
    height and structure merely collapsing in their own footprint are extremely slim.” He also stated,
    “There is a lot of work in getting sixteen people ready to commit voluntary and simultaneous
    suicide. The case has not been made. The official story is not persuasive because it does not
    address the real issues of complexity.” 2 Mr. Arnold’s doubts about the collapse of the WTC
    towers is shared by William Christison, former Director of Regional and Political Analysis at the
    CIA, and others as described below.
    Terrell E. Arnold, MA

    – 1 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Angelo Codevilla, PhD

    Edward Peck

    Angelo Codevilla, PhD – Former U.S. State Department Foreign
    Service officer specializing in U.S. intelligence operations in
    Western Europe. Member of President-elect Ronald Reagan's
    State Department transition team and principal author of the
    team's report on intelligence. Former Staff Member, U.S. Senate
    Intelligence Committee dealing with oversight of the intelligence
    services 1977 -1985. Former U.S. Navy officer. Currently Vice
    Chairman of the U.S. Army War College Board of Visitors.
    In March 2009, Dr. Codevilla wrote, “Seven years after Osama
    bin Laden's last verifiable appearance among the living, there is
    more evidence for Elvis's presence among us than for his. Hence
    there is reason to ask whether the paradigm of Osama bin Laden
    as terrorism's deus ex machina and of al Qaeda as the prototype
    of terrorism may be an artifact of our Best and Brightest's
    imagination, and whether investment in this paradigm has kept
    our national security establishment from thinking seriously about our troubles' sources.
    So let us take a fresh look at the fundamentals.
    “Negative evidence alone compels the conclusion that Osama is long since dead. Since
    October 2001, when Al Jazeera's Tayseer Alouni interviewed him, no reputable person
    reports having seen him—not even after multiple-blind journeys through intermediaries.
    The audio and video tapes alleged to be Osama's never convinced impartial observers.
    The guy just does not look like Osama. Some videos show him with a Semitic aquiline
    nose, while others show him with a shorter, broader one. Next to that, differences
    between colors and styles of beard are small stuff.
    “Nor does the tapes' Osama sound like Osama. In 2007 Switzerland's Dalle Molle
    Institute for Artificial Intelligence, which does computer voice recognition for bank
    security, compared the voices on 15 undisputed recordings of Osama with the voices on
    15 subsequent ones attributed to Osama, to which they added two by native Arab
    speakers who had trained to imitate him and were reading his writings. All of the
    purported Osama recordings (with one falling into a gray area) differed clearly from one
    another as well as from the genuine ones. By contrast, the CIA found all the recordings
    authentic. It is hard to imagine what methodology might support this conclusion.” 3
    Edward Peck – Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence
    Programs, U.S. State Department. He later served as Deputy
    Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under
    President Ronald Reagan. Mr. Peck, a 32-year veteran of the
    U.S. Foreign Service, also served as U.S. Ambassador and Chief
    of Mission in Iraq 1977 - 1980.
    In October 2004, soon after the release of the 9/11 Commission
    Report, Mr. Peck and over 100 prominent Americans signed a
    petition urging Congress to immediately reinvestigate 9/11. The
    signers included former senior CIA officials, Raymond McGovern
    and Melvin Goodman, mentioned below, and three former State
    Department veterans not mentioned in this article: Daniel
    Ellsberg; Fred Burks, a former interpreter for Presidents George
    H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton; and retired career Foreign Service
    officer Michael Springmann. The petition stated, in part:
    – 2 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski

    “We want truthful answers to questions such as:
    1. Why were standard operating procedures for dealing with hijacked airliners not
    followed that day?
    2. Why were the extensive missile batteries and air defenses reportedly deployed
    around the Pentagon not activated during the attack?
    3. Why did the Secret Service allow Bush to complete his elementary school visit,
    apparently unconcerned about his safety or that of the schoolchildren?
    4. Why hasn't a single person been fired, penalized, or reprimanded for the gross
    incompetence we witnessed that day?
    5. Why haven't authorities in the U.S. and abroad published the results of multiple
    investigations into trading that strongly suggested foreknowledge of specific details of
    the 9/11 attacks, resulting in tens of millions of dollars of traceable gains?” 4
    These questions and many others still remain unanswered more than four years after the
    petition was submitted and more than seven years after the terrible events of 9/11.
    National Security Agency
    A Pentagon eye-witness and a former member of the staff of
    the Director of the National Security Agency, Lt. Col. Karen
    Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret), is a severe critic of
    the official account of 9/11. A contributing author to the 2006
    book 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out,
    edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott, she wrote, “I
    believe the [9/11] Commission failed to deeply examine
    the topic at hand, failed to apply scientific rigor to its
    assessment of events leading up to and including 9/11, failed
    to produce a believable and unbiased summary of what
    happened, failed to fully examine why it happened, and even
    failed to include a set of unanswered questions for future
    research.”
    She continued, “It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble
    with the official government conspiracy theory, mainly because
    it does not satisfy the rules of probability or physics. The
    collapses of the World Trade Center buildings clearly violate
    the laws of probability and physics.”
    Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski was working in the Pentagon on 9/11 in her capacity as Political-Military
    Affairs officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense when Flight 77 allegedly hit the
    Pentagon. She wrote:
    “There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked lawn, where I stood only
    minutes after the impact. Beyond this strange absence of airliner debris, there was no
    sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact
    of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to
    the Secretary of Defense [Donald Rumsfeld], who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue
    – 3 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a ‘missile.’ 5 … [Secretary
    Rumsfeld also publicly referred to Flight 93, which allegedly crashed into the ground
    near Shanksville, PA, as the plane that was ‘shot down’ over Pennsylvania. 6]
    “I saw nothing of significance at the point of impact - no airplane metal or cargo debris
    was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged building as smoke billowed from within
    the Pentagon. ... [A]ll of us staring at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for
    such debris, but what we expected to see was not evident.
    “The same is true with regard to the kind of damage we expected. ... But I did not see
    this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small hole, no larger than 20 feet in
    diameter. Although this facade later collapsed, it remained standing for 30 or 40
    minutes, with the roof line remaining relatively straight.
    “The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by a large
    jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would expect if a missile had struck the
    Pentagon. ... More information is certainly needed regarding the events of 9/11 and the
    events leading up to that terrible day.” 7
    Maj. John M. Newman, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Executive
    Assistant to the Director of the National Security Agency. At a
    2005 Congressional briefing he said, “It falls to me this morning to
    bring to your attention the story of Saeed Sheikh, whose full name
    is Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, and his astonishing rise to power
    in Al Qaeda, his crucial role in 9/11, which is completely, utterly,
    missing from the 9/11 Commission report …
    “The 9/11 Commission which studied US intelligence and law
    enforcement community performance in great detail, (maybe not
    so much great detail, but they did), neglected to cover the
    community’s performance during the weeks following the attacks
    to determine who was responsible for them, not a word about that
    in the Report.
    “The Report does discuss the immediate US responses but the immediate investigation
    is never addressed, and anyone who has closely studied the post-9/11 investigation
    knows that the first breakthrough came two weeks into the investigation when the money
    transfers from the United Arab Emirates to the hijackers were uncovered.
    “Furthermore, if you have studied that investigation, you know there is no disputing that
    while investigators may have struggled with the identity of the paymaster, they were
    clear about one thing, he was Al Qaeda’s finance chief. For this reason alone you have
    to ask why the 9/11 Commission Report never mentions the finance chief’s role as the
    9/11 paymaster.” 8
    Despite the general knowledge since October 2001, even reported in the Wall Street Journal 9,
    that Omar Saeed Sheikh wired more than $100,000 to Mohamed Atta under instructions from
    General Mahmud Ahmed, the head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), the 9/11
    Commission Report states, “The 9/11 plotters eventually spent somewhere between $400,000
    and $500,000 to plan and conduct their attack. … The origin of the funds remains unknown ….”
    and “Similarly, we have seen no evidence that any foreign government -- or government official
    -- supplied any *******.”
    Maj. John M. Newman

    – 4 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Raymond McGovern

    Central Intelligence Agency
    Seven CIA veterans have severely criticized the official account of
    9/11 and have called for a new investigation. “I think at simplest
    terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke,” 10 said
    Raymond McGovern, 27-year veteran of the CIA, who chaired
    National Intelligence Estimates during the 1970’s. “There are a
    whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they’re
    unanswered is because this [Bush] administration will not answer
    the questions.” McGovern, who is also the founder of VIPS
    (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity), is one of many
    signers of the petition to reinvestigate 9/11, mentioned above.
    During his 27-year CIA career, McGovern personally delivered
    intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George
    H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint
    Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials. Upon
    retirement in 1990, McGovern was awarded the CIA’s Intelligence Commendation Medallion
    and received a letter of appreciation from then-President George H. W. Bush. However,
    McGovern returned the award 11 in 2006 in protest of the George W. Bush Administration’s
    advocacy and use of torture.
    In his endorsement of 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out, edited by David Ray
    Griffin and Peter Dale Scott, McGovern wrote, “It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney
    administration cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs. But the
    present volume confronts us with evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11
    attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus
    exploited. If this is true, it is not merely the case, as the Downing Street memos show, that the
    stated reason for attacking Iraq was a lie. It is also the case that the whole ‘war on terror’ was
    based on a prior deception. This book hence confronts the American people---indeed the people
    of the world as a whole---with an issue second to none in importance and urgency. I give this
    book, which in no way can be dismissed as the ravings of ‘paranoid conspiracy theorists,’ my
    highest possible recommendation.” 12
    Mr. McGovern is not alone in referring to the 9/11 Commission Report as a “joke.” William
    Christison, former Director of Regional and Political Analysis at the CIA, also called the report “a
    joke”. Nor is Mr. McGovern alone in referring to it as “a cover-up.” Melvin Goodman, former
    Division Chief of the CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs, also called it a “cover-up.” (see below)
    William Christison

    William Christison, a 29-year CIA veteran, former National
    Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA's Office
    of Regional and Political Analysis describes the 9/11 Commission
    Report as a “joke” and offers even more outspoken criticism. In a
    2006 podcast interview by George Kenney of Electric Politics,
    Christison said, “We very seriously need an entirely new very high
    level and truly independent investigation of the events of 9/11.
    think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a
    joke and not a serious piece of analysis at all.” 13
    Christison is a member of the Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-
    Eleven, an organization that states, “We have found solid
    – 5 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    scientific grounds on which to question the interpretation put upon the events of September 11,
    2001, by the Office of the President of the United States of America and subsequently
    propagated by the major media of western nations.” 14
    In his 2007 endorsement of David Ray Griffin’s book, Debunking 9/11 Debunking, Christison
    wrote, “[There’s] a strong body of evidence showing the official U.S. Government story of what
    happened on September 11, 2001, to be almost certainly a monstrous series of lies.” 15 And in
    an online essay in late 2006, he wrote, “I have come to believe that significant parts of the
    [alternative] 9/11 theories are true, and that therefore significant parts of the “official story” put
    out by the U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission are false. I now think there is persuasive
    evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11
    Commission would have us believe. … An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. …
    The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and
    fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them.” 16
    Prior to his retirement from the CIA in 1979, Christison served as Director of the CIA's Office of
    Regional and Political Analysis overseeing 200 analysts who collected intelligence and provided
    analysis on all regions and every country in the world. Prior to that, he served as one of only a
    handful of National Intelligence Officers (NIO) in the intelligence community. NIO’s are
    responsible for the intelligence community efforts in a particular subject area of national security
    and are the principal advisors to the Director of Central Intelligence.
    Melvin Goodman, PhD, is another former senior CIA official who
    calls the 9/11 Commission Report a “cover-up” and who signed
    the petition to reinvestigate 9/11. Goodman served as Division
    Chief of the CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs and Senior Analyst from
    1966 -1990. He also served as Professor of International
    Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004.
    In testimony before a 2005 Congressional briefing on the 9/11
    Commission Report, Goodman said, “This is an important
    examination of a 9/11 Commission that was an historic
    opportunity that was missed and a 9/11 Commission study that is
    terribly flawed. ...
    “I think the 9/11 Commission has taught me that we need to be
    extremely rigorous and extremely tenacious in pursuing that truth,
    because there is a corporate mentality in this country that is
    working against allowing the truth to surface, even in tragedies,
    such as the 9/11 tragedy. ...
    “I want to talk about the [9/11] Commission itself, about the flawed
    process of the Commission and finally about the conflict of interest
    within the Commission that is extremely important to understand
    the failure of the Commission. … The final report is ultimately a
    cover-up. I don't know how else to describe it.” 17 Goodman is
    senior fellow and director of the National Security Program at the
    Center for International Policy and adjunct professor of
    government at Johns Hopkins University.
    Robert Baer is another well-known CIA veteran who has
    questioned the official account of 9/11. A 21-year CIA veteran
    and specialist in the Middle East, Baer was awarded the Career
    Melvin Goodman, PhD

    Robert Baer

    – 6 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Intelligence Medal upon his retirement in 1997. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh
    wrote that Baer “was considered perhaps the best on-the-ground field officer in the Middle
    East.” 18 After retirement, Baer wrote two best-selling non-fiction books about the CIA; See No
    Evil and Sleeping with the Devil, the former serving as the basis for the Academy Award-
    winning movie Syriana, starring George Clooney. Baer was also the writer and on-camera
    commentator for the Emmy Award-nominated documentary Cult of the Suicide Bomber.
    Baer has repeatedly questioned whether al-Qaida could have accomplished 9/11 alone. In a
    2002 essay for The Guardian, Baer wrote, “Did bin Laden act alone, through his own al-Qaida
    network, in launching the attacks? About that I'm far more certain and emphatic: no.” 19
    In 2006, during a radio interview by Thom Hartmann, Baer, after commenting on the financial
    profits being made from 9/11, was asked: “What about political profit? There are those who
    suggest that ... someone in that chain of command ... had pretty good knowledge that 9/11 was
    going to happen --and really didn't do much to stop it --or even obstructed efforts to stop it
    because they thought it would lend legitimacy to Bush's ... failing presidency.” Baer replied:
    “Absolutely.” Hartmann then asked, “So you are personally of the opinion ... that there was an
    aspect of 'inside job' to 9/11 within the U.S. government?” To which Baer replied, “There is that
    possibility, the evidence points at it.” When Hartmann continued, “And why is it not being
    investigated?,” Baer replied, “Why isn't the WMD story being investigated? Why hasn't anybody
    been held accountable for 9/11? We held people accountable after Pearl Harbor. Why has
    there been no change in command? Why have there been no political repercussions? Why
    has there been no -- any sort of exposure on this? It really makes you wonder.” 20
    And in February 2008, Baer wrote, “There are enough discrepancies and unanswered questions
    in the 9/11 Commission Report that under a friendly administration, the 9/11 investigation
    should be re-opened.” 21
    In his endorsement of the revised and updated edition of David Ray Griffin’s Debunking 9/11
    Debunking, Baer wrote, “Until we get a complete, honest, transparent investigation--not one
    based on 'confession' extracted by torture--we will never know what happened on 9/11.” 22
    "I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war,”
    wrote well-known intelligence analyst Robert David Steele in 2006 in a review of the book, 9/11
    Synthetic Terror by Webster Tarpley. Steele is the author of numerous books on the
    intelligence services and is currently the CEO of OSS.net, a
    proponent of Open Source Intelligence. Steele has 25 years of
    combined service in the CIA and the U.S. Marine Corps. He also
    served as the second ranking civilian (GS-14) in U.S. Marine
    Corps Intelligence from 1988 -1992 and was a member of the
    adjunct faculty of Marine Corps University. Steele continued, “I
    have to tell anyone who cares to read this: I believe it. I believe it
    enough to want a full investigation that passes the smell test of
    the 9/11 families as well as objective outside observers.” 23
    In a subsequent interview on the Alex Jones Show, Steele said,
    “The U.S. government did not properly investigate this [9/11] and
    there are more rocks to be turned over,” and added, “I'm
    absolutely certain that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled
    demolition and that, as far as I'm concerned, means that this case
    has not been properly investigated. There's no way that building
    could have come down without controlled demolition.” 24
    Robert David Steele

    – 7 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    On September 14, 2004, a group of 25 military, intelligence service and law enforcement
    veterans sent a joint letter to Congress expressing their concerns about “serious shortcomings,”
    “omissions,” and “major flaws” in the 9/11 Commission Report and offering their services for a
    new investigation. Their letter was apparently entirely ignored. Among the signers were four
    CIA veterans; Raymond McGovern and Melvin Goodman (both mentioned above) and David
    MacMichael and Lynn Larkin.
    David MacMichael, PhD – Former Senior Estimates Officer at
    the CIA with special responsibility for western hemisphere affairs
    at the CIA's National Intelligence Council. Prior to joining the CIA,
    he served as a U.S. Marine Corps officer for ten years and for
    four years as a counter-insurgency advisor to the government.
    Lynne Larkin – Former CIA Operations Officer who served in
    several CIA foreign stations before being assigned to the CIA's
    Counter-Intelligence Center. There, she co-chaired a multi-
    agency task force, which, among other functions, provided
    direction to other federal agencies for coordinating intelligence
    efforts among the many intelligence and law enforcement
    agencies.
    David MacMichael, PhD

    Their letter read: "[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress
    and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the
    report and its recommendations. …
    “Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission’s report. We are aware of
    significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us
    with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. …
    “The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders
    the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. ...
    “The Commission, with its incomplete report of “facts and circumstances”, intentional
    avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and
    experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress
    and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. …
    “We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA,
    FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in
    Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the
    important issues at hand. We stand ready to do our part.” 25
    – 8 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Federal Bureau of Investigation

    Nine FBI veterans were among the 25 military, intelligence services, and law enforcement
    veterans who signed the above-mentioned September 14, 2004, letter to Congress challenging
    the 9/11 Commission Report and requesting a new investigation into 9/11.
    Edward J. Costello, Jr. – Former Special Agent,
    Counterespionage, FBI. Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles,
    CA.
    John M. Cole – Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the
    FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. In charge of FBI’s foreign
    intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and
    Afghanistan. 18-year FBI career. Mr. Cole currently works as a
    senior counterintelligence analyst.
    Sibel D. Edmonds – Witness before the 9/11 Commission.
    Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations
    for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI.
    She is founder and president of the National Security
    Whistleblowers Coalition.
    In a personal letter to the 9/11 Commission in August 2004, Ms.
    Edmonds wrote, “I find your report seriously flawed in its failure to
    address serious intelligence issues that I am aware of, which
    have been confirmed, and which as a witness to the commission,
    I made you aware of. Thus, I must assume that other serious
    issues that I am not aware of were in the same manner omitted
    from your report. These omissions cast doubt on the validity of
    your report and therefore on its conclusions and
    recommendations.” 26
    Rosemary N. Dew – Former Supervisory Special Agent,
    Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI. Former member
    of The President's National Security Telecommunications
    Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic
    Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career.
    Gilbert M. Graham – Retired Special Agent, who served in the
    FBI’s Washington Field Office Counterintelligence Division.
    24-year FBI career.
    Behrooz Sarshar – Witness before the 9/11 Commission.
    Retired Language Translation Specialist, performing Farsi
    translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence
    operations dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, FBI.
    – 9 –
    Edward J. Costello, Jr.

    John M. Cole

    Sibel D. Edmonds


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Rosemary N. Dew

    Jane A. Turner – Retired Special Agent, FBI. 24-year FBI
    career.
    John B. Vincent – Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI.
    27-year FBI career.
    Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD – Retired Supervisory Special Agent /
    Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI. 16-year FBI career. Former
    U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.
    Coleen Rowley

    Jane A. Turner John B. Vincent Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD
    Other FBI veterans have independently spoken out about their
    concerns with the official account of 9/11.
    Coleen Rowley – Former Special Agent and Minneapolis Division
    Counsel, FBI. 24-year FBI career. Agent Rowley was selected
    one of Time Magazine's three 2002 Persons of the Year for
    revealing FBI headquarters' efforts to “throw up roadblocks and
    undermine” FBI field investigations of al-Qaida operatives in the
    four weeks prior to 9/11.
    On May 21, 2002, Agent Rowley sent a 13-page letter to FBI
    Director Robert Mueller stating, “The fact is that key FBIHQ
    personnel whose job it was to assist and coordinate with field
    division agents on terrorism investigations and the obtaining and
    use of FISA searches (and who theoretically were privy to many
    more sources of intelligence information than field division agents), continued to, almost
    inexplicably, throw up roadblocks and undermine Minneapolis' by-now desperate efforts
    to obtain a FISA search warrant, long after the French intelligence service provided its
    information and probable cause became clear. HQ personnel brought up almost
    ridiculous questions in their apparent efforts to undermine the probable cause. ...
    – 10 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    “When, in a desperate 11th hour measure to bypass the FBIHQ roadblock, the
    Minneapolis Division undertook to directly notify the CIA's Counter Terrorist Center
    (CTC), FBIHQ personnel actually chastised the Minneapolis agents for making the direct
    notification without their approval ...
    “I know I shouldn't be flippant about this, but jokes were actually made that the key
    FBIHQ personnel had to be spies or moles, like Robert Hansen, who were actually
    working for Osama Bin Laden to have so undercut Minneapolis' effort.” 27
    In an interview in September 2005, Agent Rowley stated, “And what I did was, I think, I put the
    first good dent in the blanket defense that for 8 and a half, 9 months, was holding -- that 9/11
    could not have been prevented.
    “... we were all settling for, ‘9/11 could not have been prevented’, it was ‘hindsight’. Condi Rice,
    ‘Well, no one could have ever imagined that someone would fly…’ and of course, when she
    says that, she’s disregarding a whole bunch of things. People are letting her get away with it.
    She’s disregarding the fact of two or three prior incidents of people trying to fly planes into
    buildings, attempted takeovers of cockpits … We’re also ignoring the fact that in Minneapolis
    [FBI office], the acting supervisor, arguing with [FBI] headquarters said, ‘This is a guy [Zacarias
    Moussaoui] that could fly a plane into the World Trade Center’ on August 22nd!” 28
    Despite Agent Rowley's high-profile revelations and intimate knowledge of FBI headquarters’
    efforts to obstruct investigations of al-Qaida-related terrorist activities in the four weeks prior to
    9/11, the 9/11 Commission never interviewed her. The 9/11 Commission's “full and complete
    account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks” contains no
    mention of her allegations that FBI headquarters “continued to, almost inexplicably, throw up
    roadblocks and undermine” FBI field agent counterterrorism efforts. The 9/11 Commission
    Report only obliquely mentions Agent Rowley in a single footnote.
    Robert G. Wright, Jr. – Special Agent, International Terrorism
    Unit, FBI. The only FBI agent to seize terrorist funds (over $1.4
    million) from U.S.-based Middle Eastern terrorists using federal
    civil forfeiture statutes, prior to 9/11. 17-year FBI veteran.
    In May 2002, Agent Wright filed a lawsuit against the FBI seeking
    approval for publication of his 500-page manuscript, submitted 7
    months earlier. The complaint stated, “The FBI's conscious failure
    to undertake criminal investigations of suspected terrorists in the
    United States was further shown when managers from the FBI's
    headquarters (FBIHQ) Counterterrorism Division met with the
    Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) in Chicago and admitted to SA
    Wright that no one at FBIHQ reviewed or attempted to link all the
    reports filed by the FBI field offices regarding terrorist activities in
    the United States. ...
    “Regrettably, the largest obstacles to SA Wright's criminal
    investigation efforts of the HAMAS enterprise in the United States
    were the management of the Chicago field office and the FBIHQ
    Counterterrorism Division in Washington, D.C. ...
    Robert G. Wright, Jr.

    “SA Wright's successful investigation, codename Vulgar Betrayal, led to the June 9, 1998,
    seizure of $1.4 million of funds destined for terrorist activities. ... The seized funds were directly
    – 11 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    linked to Saudi businessman Yassin Kadi. On October 12, 2001, Yassin Kadi, aka Yassin al-
    Qadi, was designated by the U.S. Government as a financial supporter of Osama Bin Laden.
    According to a U.S. Government source, Kadi provided $3 million to Bin Laden and his al-Qaida
    organization.” 29
    The government watchdog group Judicial Watch assisted Agent Wright in his lawsuit and in a
    September 2002 press release stated, “The FBI continues to illegally refuse the release of SA
    Wright’s 500 page manuscript, Fatal Betrayals of the Intelligence Mission, that SA Wright
    submitted for prepublication review in October 2001. In fact, the FBI refused to turn the
    manuscript over to Sen. Richard C. Shelby, Vice Chairman of the [U.S. Congress] Joint
    Intelligence Committee, charged with investigating the FBI’s intelligence failures.” 30
    Amazingly, Agent Wright was never called as a witness by the 9/11 Commission, nor is he
    mentioned in the 9/11 Commission's “full and complete account of the circumstances
    surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks” nor the Commission's separate 155-page
    Monograph on Terrorist Financing:
    .
    Despite Agent Wright's highly visible and credible criticism of the FBI's handling of
    investigations of suspected terrorists prior to 9/11,
    .
    Despite the very public controversy caused by the refusal of the FBI to provide his 500page
    manuscript to the U.S. Congress' Joint Intelligence Committee Investigation of 9/11
    (JICI),
    .
    Despite the fact that he was the only FBI agent to seize terrorist funds (over $1.4 million)
    from U.S.-based Middle Eastern terrorists using federal civil forfeiture statutes, prior to
    9/11, and
    .
    Despite the fact that one of the people directly connected to the $1.4 million seized by
    Agent Wright was Yassin al-Qadi, aka Yassin Kadi, who on 10/12/01 was designated by
    Presidential Executive Order 13224 as a “Specially Designated Global Terrorist” and
    financial supporter of Osama bin Laden and had his financial assets frozen in the United
    States.
    Yassin al-Qadi is also not mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report and is only mentioned
    obliquely in one footnote in the Commission's 155-page Monograph on Terrorist Financing.
    ABC News reported in December 2002, “In a dramatic interview with ABCNEWS, FBI special
    agents and partners Robert Wright and John Vincent say they were called off criminal
    investigations of suspected terrorists tied to the deadly bombings of two U.S. embassies in
    Africa. U.S. officials say al Qaeda was responsible for the embassy attacks and the Sept. 11,
    2001, attacks in the United States.
    “September the 11th is a direct result of the incompetence of the FBI's International Terrorism
    Unit. No doubt about that. Absolutely no doubt about that,” Wright said. “You can't know the
    things I know and not go public.” …
    “The supervisor who was there from headquarters was right straight across from me and started
    yelling at me: ‘You will not open criminal investigations. I forbid any of you. You will not open
    criminal investigations against any of these intelligence subjects,’” Wright said.
    Even though they were on a terrorism task force and said they had proof of criminal activity,
    Wright said he was told not to pursue the matter.” 31
    – 12 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Federal Aviation Administration

    Three FAA counter-terrorism veterans were among the 25 military, intelligence services, and
    law enforcement veterans who signed the above-mentioned September 14, 2004, letter to
    Congress challenging the 9/11 Commission Report and requesting a new investigation into
    9/11.
    Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14year
    Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the
    Federal Aviation Administration. Team leader of the FAA's Red
    (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport
    security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former team leader
    in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer.
    In the video documentary Inside 9/11 broadcast in August 2005,
    Mr. Dzakovic stated, “What happened on Sept. 11, 2001, was not
    a failure in the system; it was a system that was deliberately
    designed to fail. And the 9/11 Commission failed in not
    documenting why that was allowed to happen.” 32
    In the documentary On Native Soil, also broadcast in August
    2005, Mr. Dzakovic stated, “The best I could say about it is they
    really botched the job by not really going into the real failures. …
    At worst, I think the 9/11 Commission Report is treasonous.” 33
    Steve Elson – Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy, DEA
    and FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and
    Security. Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval
    Special Warfare. Retired Navy SEAL. Nine years service with the
    FAA and DEA. Mr. Elson holds a Masters Degree in National
    Security Affairs/Naval Intelligence with a focus on terrorism.
    Mr. Elson was interviewed for an article in Salon.com in August
    2004, which reported, “A former Navy SEAL and Drug
    Enforcement Administration rep in South America, Elson is not a
    timid man. ‘I'd give the commission a 'D' for investigating the
    FAA,’ he declares. ... ‘The commissioners knew a lot more than
    they included in the 9/11 report,’ he says. ‘They sold out.’” 34
    Lt. Col. Brian F. Sullivan, U.S. Army Military Police (ret) –
    Former Special Agent for the FAA's New England Region
    Security Division, where he was a Risk Program Management
    Specialist. A graduate of the U.S. Army Command and General
    Staff College, with additional Bachelors degree in Liberal
    Arts/History from Northeastern University and a Masters Degree
    in Education from the former Boston State College.
    Bogdan Dzakovic

    Steve Elson

    Lt. Col. Brian F. Sullivan

    – 13 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Mark Conrad, JD

    U.S. Customs and Border Protection
    Mark Conrad, JD – Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S.
    Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for
    areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations. Former
    Federal Sky Marshall. 27-year U.S. Customs career. Mr. Conrad
    was one of the 25 military, intelligence services, and law
    enforcement veterans who signed the above-mentioned September
    14, 2004, letter to Congress challenging the 9/11 Commission
    Report and requesting a new investigation into 9/11.
    Raymond Ciccolilli – Former U.S. Sky Marshal and Senior U.S.
    Customs Inspector, retired after 33 years.
    In a statement of support for the Architects and Engineers petition
    for a new investigation of 9/11, he wrote, “I am ashamed that I
    spent so many years defending the borders only to now know that
    we are now living the most corrupt time in all of U.S. history. I had
    some questions in my mind about all the circumstances involved in
    9/11 but it wasn't until I watched this DVD did all the pieces of the
    puzzle fall into place. I guess, I, too, was living in denial. No one
    wants to believe this, but having witnessed two jet plane crashes in
    the past, and watching the Trade Center buildings collapse, I know
    that the facts do not add up.
    “After viewing several other documentaries on 9/11, I am now
    convinced these building were deliberately destroyed. Someone
    has to be held accountable.” 35
    Raymond Ciccolilli

    Gen. Albert Stubblebine

    Department of Defense and U.S. Military Intelligence Veterans
    Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret), former
    Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security
    Command (INSCOM), is a strong critic of the official account of
    9/11. In the 2006 video documentary One Nation Under Siege, he
    said, “One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of
    the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical
    Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet
    equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in
    the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was
    supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does
    not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it?
    Where is it? What's going on?” 36
    During his 32-year Army career, Gen. Stubblebine also
    commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and
    Development Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School
    and Center. Gen. Stubblebine is one of the inductees into the
    Military Intelligence Hall of Fame. 37
    – 14 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Morton Goulder

    Senator Mike Gravel

    Wayne Madsen

    Morton Goulder (1921 – 2008) was appointed Deputy Assistant
    Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under
    President Richard Nixon and continued in that capacity under
    Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. In World War II, he
    served as a Lt. Commander in the U.S. Navy. He was a cofounder
    of Sanders Associates, a large defense contractor.
    In October 2004, three months after the release of the 9/11
    Commission Report, Mr. Goulder and over 100 prominent
    Americans signed a petition urging Congress to immediately
    reinvestigate 9/11. (See above, State Department: Edward Peck.)
    Senator Mike Gravel – Former U.S. Army officer, serving as the
    Adjutant in the Communications Intelligence Service in Germany
    and as a Special Agent in the Counter Intelligence Corps in
    France. Former U.S. Senator from Alaska, most well known for
    entering over 4,000 pages of the Pentagon Papers into the U.S.
    Senate record, thus making public the secret official study that
    revealed the lies and manipulations of successive U.S.
    administrations that misled the country into the Vietnam War.
    Senator Gravel is a member of Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, an
    organization which states,
    “Scholars and professionals with various kinds of expertise -including
    architects, engineers, firefighters, intelligence officers,
    lawyers, medical professionals, military officers, philosophers,
    religious leaders, physical scientists, and pilots --have spoken out
    about radical discrepancies between the official account of the
    9/11 attacks and what they, as independent researchers, have
    learned.
    “They have established beyond any reasonable doubt that the
    official account of 9/11 is false and that, therefore, the official
    ‘investigations’ have really been cover-up operations.
    “Thus far, however, there has been no response from political
    leaders in Washington or, for that matter, in other capitals around
    the world. Our organization, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, has
    been formed to help bring about such a response.” 38
    Wayne Madsen – Former U.S. Navy Intelligence officer,
    specialist in electronic surveillance and security. Formerly
    assigned to the National Security Agency and the State
    Department. Currently, investigative journalist, nationally
    distributed columnist, and author. Senior Fellow, Electronic
    Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-partisan privacy public
    advocacy group in Washington, DC.
    In a November 2006 speech, he said, “After five years of talking
    to many individuals in the intelligence community, in the military,
    – 15 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    foreign intelligence agencies, and a whole host of other people, people from the air traffic
    control community, the FAA, I came to the conclusion that after five years what we saw happen
    on that morning of September 11, 2001, was the result of a highly-compartmentalized covert
    operation to bring about a fascist coup in this country. ...
    “These people need to be brought to justice, if not by our own Congress, then by an
    international tribunal in The Hague, in the Netherlands. Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Cheney should
    be sitting in the same dockets where Milosevic and the Croatia-Serbia war criminals sat.” 39
    John Loftus – Former U.S. Army Intelligence officer. Former
    Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations, U.S. Justice
    Department under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan.
    In a September 2003 commentary in The Guardian by Michael
    Meacher, Member of the UK Parliament and former Minister of the
    Environment, titled This War on Terrorism is Bogus, Mr. Loftus
    was quoted, “The information provided by European intelligence
    services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer
    possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of
    incompetence.” 40
    The 9/11 Commission Report states that only three of the alleged
    hijackers were known to U.S. intelligence agencies prior to 9/11:
    Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, and Khalid al-Mihdar. There is
    no mention in the Report that the names and photographs of
    alleged hijacker Marwan al-Shehhi and alleged ring-leader
    Mohamed Atta had been identified by the Department of Defense
    counter-terrorism program known as Able Danger more than a
    year prior to 9/11 and that they were known to be affiliates of al-
    Qaida. Able Danger also identified Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid
    al-Mihdar.
    Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, former Chief of the Army’s Controlled
    HUMINT (Human Intelligence) Program, overseeing Army
    Intelligence and Security Command’s global controlled HUMINT
    efforts. In testimony before the House Armed Services
    Committee in 2006, Lt. Col. Shaffer stated: “[B]asic law
    enforcement investigative techniques, with 21st Century data
    mining and analytical tools ... resulted in the establishment of a
    new form of intelligence collection – and the identification of
    Mohammed Atta and several other of the 9-11 terrorists as
    having links to Al Qaeda leadership a full year in advance of the
    attacks. ...
    “After contact by two separate members of the ABLE DANGER team, … the 9-11 [Commission]
    staff refused to perform any in-depth review or investigation of the issues that were identified to
    them. … It was their job to do a thorough investigation of these claims -- to not simply dismiss
    them based on what many now believe was a ‘preconceived’ conclusion to the 9-11 story they
    wished to tell. … I consider this a failure of the 9-11 staff --a failure that the 9-11
    Commissioners themselves were victimized by --and continue to have perpetrated on them by
    the staff as is evidenced by their recent, groundless conclusion that ABLE DANGER’s findings
    were ‘urban legend.’” 41
    John Loftus

    Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer

    – 16 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    A 23-year military intelligence veteran, Lt. Col. Shaffer was recently awarded the Bronze Star for
    bravery in Afghanistan. In a 2005 interview on Fox News, he stated, “Why did this operation,
    which was created in ‘99 to target al-Qaida globally, offensively, why was that turned off in the
    spring of 2001, four months before we were attacked? I can't answer that, either. I can tell you I
    was ordered out of the operation directly by a two-star general.” 42
    Capt. Scott J. Phillpott, U.S. Navy – Former head of the Able
    Danger data mining program that targeted al-Qaida’s global
    structure and former Commanding Officer of the guided-missile
    cruiser USS Leyte Gulf. In August 2005, Capt. Phillpott stated in
    support of Lt. Col. Shaffer’s statement: “I will not discuss this
    outside of my chain of command. I have briefed the Department
    of the Army, the Special Operations Command and the office of
    (Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence) Dr. Cambone as well
    as the 9/11 Commission. My story has remained consistent. Atta
    was identified by Able Danger in January/February 2000.” 43
    Capt. Phillpott is a U.S. Naval Academy graduate, who during his
    23 years of Navy service has been awarded the Legion of Merit,
    Defense Meritorious Service Medal, three Meritorious Service
    Medals, the Joint Service Commendation Medal, two Navy
    Commendation Medals, and the Navy Achievement Medal.
    Maj. Scott Ritter – Former U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence officer
    who also served as Chief Weapons Inspector for the United
    Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991 -1998. In 2005, he
    said: “I, like the others, are frustrated by the 9/11 Commission
    Report, by the lack of transparency on the part of the United
    States government, both in terms of the executive branch and the
    legislative branch when it comes to putting out on the table all
    facts known to the 9/11 case.” 44
    In January 2008, in reply to a question, Maj. Ritter stated, “You
    articulated the one argument that I support whole-heartedly, which
    is the absolute requirement to find out what happened; that the
    9/11 Commission's Report is inadequate to the task. And that
    until they answer all the questions, you will leave open, at least in
    the mind of certain individuals, the possibility of collusion, the
    possibility of conspiracy ...
    “We have an absolute requirement to know what happened on
    9/11. And no stone should be left unturned. And the 9/11
    Commission Report was not up to the task. And there must be a
    re-opening of the investigation, so that we the people of the
    United States know what occurred on that horrific day.” 45
    Capt. Eric H. May – Former U.S. Army Intelligence officer who
    also served as an inspector and interpreter for the Intermediate
    Nuclear Forces Treaty team. Capt. May is one of more than 100
    prominent Americans who signed the October 2004 petition
    urging Congress to immediately reinvestigate 9/11, which is
    mentioned above.
    In 2005, Capt. May wrote:
    Capt. Scott Phillpott

    Maj. Scott Ritter

    Capt. Eric H. May

    – 17 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    “As a former Army officer, my tendency immediately after 9/11 was to rally ‘round the
    colors and defend the country against what I then thought was an insidious, malicious
    all-Arab entity called Al-Qaida.
    “In fact, in April of 2002, I attempted to reactivate my then-retired commission to return to
    serve my country in its time of peril. ...
    “Now I view the 9/11 event as Professor David Griffin, author of The New Pearl Harbor,
    views it: as a matter that implies either
    A) passive participation by the Bush White House through a deliberate stand-down of
    proper defense procedures that (if followed) would have led US air assets to a quick
    identification and confrontation of the passenger aircraft that impacted WTC 1 and WTC
    2, or worse ...
    B) active execution of a plot by rogue elements of government, starting with the White
    House itself, in creating a spectacle of destruction that would lead the United States into
    an invasion of the Middle East.” 46
    Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler, PhD – Former U.S. Army Intelligence
    officer. In a 2006 statement to this author Capt. Zeigler wrote, “I
    knew from September 18, 2001, that the official story about 9/11
    was false. That was when I realized that the perpetrators had
    made a colossal blunder in collapsing the South Tower first, rather
    than the North Tower, which had been hit more directly and
    earlier.
    “Other anomalies poured in rapidly: the hijackers' names
    appearing in none of the published flight passenger lists, BBC
    reports of stolen identities of the alleged hijackers or the alleged
    hijackers being found alive, the obvious demolitions of WTC 1 and
    2 and WTC 7, the lack of identifiable Boeing 757 wreckage at the
    Pentagon, the impossibility of ordinary cell phone (as opposed to
    Airfone) calls being made consistently from passenger aircraft at
    cruising altitude, etc., etc., etc.” 47
    William G. Weaver, JD, PhD – Former U.S. Army Signals Intelligence officer. Currently
    Director of Academic Programs, Institute for Policy and Economic Development, University of
    Texas, El Paso, specializing in executive branch secrecy policy, governmental abuse, and law
    and bureaucracy.
    A September 2006 essay titled, The 9/11 Commission: A Play on Nothing in Three Acts coauthored
    by Dr. Weaver and Sibel Edmonds stated,
    “The Commission was created and put in place due to the relentless pressure and outcry
    by the 9/11 family members and their public supporters who had three objectives in
    mind:
    1) Getting all the facts; 2) Establishing Accountability for those who failed us due to their
    intentional or unintentional acts; 3) Provide recommendation for real fixes and
    meaningful remedies.
    Capt. Gregory Zeigler

    – 18 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    The Commission fulfilled none of those three objectives. In their responsibility to report
    all the facts: They either refused to interview all relevant experts and witnesses, or, they
    censored the reports provided to them by those with direct and first-hand information.
    Both these acts were selective and intentional. Contrary to their pledge to establish
    accountability: They refused to hold anyone accountable and lamely justified it by
    saying, “We don’t want to point a finger at anyone.” All those responsible individuals
    remained in their positions or were even promoted. And as far as meaningful remedies
    and reforms are concerned, the commission threw in senseless, and in some cases,
    detrimental cosmetic and bureaucratic “solutions” that ended up making our government
    even more cumbersome and unable to respond to threats to national security. In the
    name of solutions and reforms, they forced down our throats exactly what led to the
    failure to protect our nation on 9/11: A highly bureaucratic, complicated, inefficient
    mammoth of a malfunctioning machine.
    On the Fifth anniversary of the September Eleven Terror Attacks, we, the National
    Security Whistleblowers, want to go on record one more time to reiterate the significant
    issues and cases that were duly reported to the 9/11 commission by those of us from the
    Intelligence, Aviation, and Law Enforcement communities, but ended up being censored
    and omitted. The failure to address such serious and relevant issues, witnesses, and
    information renders the report flawed and the commissioners parties to a fraud on the
    nation.” 48
    Commander Larry J. Tortorich, U.S. Navy (ret) – 24-year Navy career in the fields of
    aviation and counterterrorism. Former Deputy Program Manager for Logistics – Tomahawk
    Cruise Missiles. Two years as a federal employee with DHS/TSA in the fields of security and
    counterterrorism. Commander Tortorich was one of the 25 military, intelligence services, and
    law enforcement veterans who signed the previously-mentioned September 14, 2004, letter to
    Congress challenging the 9/11 Commission Report and requesting a new investigation into
    9/11.
    Theodore J. Pahle – Former Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency.
    His 37-year intelligence career was exclusively as a HUMINT (Human Intelligence) operations
    officer with DIA, Office of Naval Intelligence and U.S. Army Intelligence. He is a Middle East
    and Latin American operations specialist. Today, he continues to support the HUMINT effort as
    a contract instructor. Mr. Pahle was one of the 25 military, intelligence services, and law
    enforcement veterans who signed the previously-mentioned September 14, 2004, letter to
    Congress challenging the 9/11 Commission Report and requesting a new investigation into
    9/11.
    The statements of these 41 current and former U.S. Counter-terrorism and Intelligence Agency
    veterans demonstrate that the desire for a new thorough and independent investigation of 9/11
    is not a matter of partisan politics, nor the demand of irresponsible, deranged, or disloyal
    Americans. It is instead a matter of the utmost importance for America’s security and the future
    of the entire world.
    Statements questioning the official account of 9/11 and calls for a new investigation by over
    1,000 credible individuals can be found at the author’s website: http://PatriotsQuestion911.com.
    Additional information about prominent skeptics of the official account of 9/11 can be found in
    the author's other articles on this subject, listed below.
    – 19 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Other Articles by Alan Miller about Credible Critics of the Official Account of 9/11
    Jan. 14, 2008 -Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – Official
    Account of 9/11: “Impossible,” “A Bunch of Hogwash,” “Total B.S.,” “Ludicrous,” “A Well-
    Organized Cover-up,” “A White-Washed Farce” featured statements by:
    .
    General Albert Stubblebine, former commander of U.S. Army Intelligence
    .
    Col. Ronald D. Ray, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
    .
    Major John M. Newman, PhD, former Executive Assistant to the Director of the National
    Security Agency
    .
    Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, PhD, former staff member of the Director of the National
    Security Agency
    .
    Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, Director of Advanced Space Programs Development
    under Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter
    .
    And 20 other officers
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...e_u_s__mil.htm
    Jan. 5, 2008 -Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge Official Account of 9/11 Official
    Account of 9/11: “Flawed,” “Absurd,” “Totally Inadequate,” “a Cover-up” featured
    statements by:
    .
    Daniel Ellsberg, PhD, former U.S. State Department envoy to Viet Nam and Special
    Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense
    .
    Col. Ann Wright, former Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone,
    Micronesia and Afghanistan. 16 years as U.S. Diplomat. 29-year U.S. Army career.
    .
    Fred Burks, former simultaneous interpreter for President Bill Clinton and George W. Bush
    and others. 18-year State Department career
    .
    Melvin Goodman, PhD, former Senior Analyst, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State
    Department. Later served as Division Chief, CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs and Professor of
    International Security, National War College
    .
    Michael Springmann, retired career Foreign Service Officer. Former Consular Officer in
    Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. 20-year career with the State Department and the International
    Foreign Trade Administration, Commerce Department
    .
    George Kenney, former career Foreign Service Officer. Served as Yugoslav desk officer
    at the State Department headquarters.
    .
    Michael Mennard, PhD, retired career Foreign Service Officer. Served as Regional Public
    Affairs Officer in India
    .
    Edward Peck, former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs, U.S. State
    Department. Later served as Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism
    under President Ronald Reagan. Former U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission in Iraq
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen..._state_dep.htm
    Dec. 13, 2007 -Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation
    -Official Account of 9/11: “Impossible,” “A Bunch of Hogwash,” “Fatally Flawed” featured
    statements by:
    .
    Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under
    Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. Former Head of the Department of
    Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology
    .
    David Griscom, PhD, retired research physicist with 33 years at the Naval Research
    Laboratory
    .
    Joel Hirschhorn, PhD, former Senior Staff Member, Congressional Office of Technology
    Assessment and former Director of Environment, Energy and Natural Resources for the
    National Governors Association
    – 20 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    .
    Enver Masud, MS, PE, former Chief of the Strategic and Emergency Planning Branch,
    U.S. Department of Energy
    .
    James Quintiere, PhD, former Chief of the Fire Science Division of the National Institute of
    Standards and Technology
    .
    Dwain Deets, MS, former Director, Aerospace Projects at NASA’s Dryden Flight Research
    Center
    .
    Edward S. Munyak, MS, PE, over 20 years experience as a Fire Protection Engineer for
    the U.S. Departments of Energy, Defense, and Veterans Affairs. Subject Matter Expert to
    the U.S. Department of Energy Fire Protection Engineering Functional Area Qualification
    Standard for Nuclear Facilities
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...or_federal.htm
    Dec. 4, 2007 -Eight Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of
    9/11 - “Not Possible,” “a Whitewash,” “False” featured statements by:
    .
    Paul ***** Roberts, PhD, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President
    Ronald Reagan
    .
    Catherine Austin Fitts, former Assistant Secretary of Housing under President George
    H.W. Bush
    .
    Morgan Reynolds, PhD, former Chief Economist of the U.S. Department of Labor under
    current President George W. Bush
    .
    Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret), who served as Deputy Assistant Secretary
    of Defense under President Ronald Reagan
    .
    Mary Schiavo, JD, former Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Transportation
    under Presidents George H.W. Bush and William Clinton
    .
    Barbara Honegger, Special Assistant to the Chief Domestic Policy Adviser to President
    Ronald Reagan. White House Policy Analyst. Project Director, Anti-Discrimination
    Federal Law Review, U.S. Department of Justice
    .
    Edward Peck, Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under
    President Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at
    the U.S. State Department. Former U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission in Iraq
    .
    Morton Goulder, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning
    under Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...or_republi.htm
    Sept. 23, 2007 -Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report - Official Account of
    9/11 a “Joke” and a “Cover-up” featured statements by CIA veterans Raymond McGovern,
    William Christison, Melvin Goodman, Robert Baer, Robert David Steele, Lynne Larkin, and
    David MacMichael.
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...veterans_c.htm
    Sept. 5, 2007 -U.S. Navy ‘Top Gun’ Pilot Questions 9/11 featured the statement of
    Commander Ralph Kolstad, U.S. Navy ‘Top Gun’ pilot.
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen..._top_gun__.htm
    Sept. 4, 2007 -Former Congressional Office of Technology Assessment Senior Staff Member
    Calls for New Investigation of 9/11 featured the statement of Joel S. Hirschhorn, Ph.D., who
    served for 12 years as a Senior Staff Member of the Congressional Office of Technology
    Assessment and later as Director of Environment, Energy and Natural Resources for the
    National Governors Association.
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...gressional.htm
    – 21 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    Aug. 27, 2007 -National Academy of Sciences Member Calls for New 9/11 Investigation Official
    Explanation a “Fraud” featured the statement of Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., world renowned
    scientist.
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...cademy_of_.htm
    Aug. 21, 2007 -Former Chief of NIST’s Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of
    World Trade Center Investigation featured the statement of James Quintiere, Ph.D., one of the
    world's leading fire science researchers.
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...ef_of_nist.htm
    July 16, 2007 -Former California Seismic Safety Commissioner Endorses 9/11 Truth
    Movement featured the statement of J. Marx Ayres, former member of the National Institute of
    Sciences Building Safety Council and former member of the California Seismic Safety
    Commission.
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/gen...ifornia_se.htm
    Endnotes
    1 It is Vital to Move Beyond 911 by Terrell E. Arnold July 3, 2007
    http://www.rense.com/general77/vital.htm
    2 Leading Counter-Terrorism Expert and Former High-Level Official Slams War on Terror and Questions 9/11 by
    George Washington February 3, 2009
    http://georgewashington2.blogspot.co...-official.html
    3 Osama bin Elvis by Angelo Codevilla, PhD in The American Spectator, March 2009
    http://spectator.org/archives/2009/0...sama-bin-elvis
    4 Petition to Reinvestigate 9/11 Signed by Over 100 Prominent Americans Oct. 26, 2004
    http://www.911truth.org/article.php?...41026093059633
    5 U.S. Department of Defense News Transcript Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with Parade Magazine Oct. 12, 2001
    http://www.defenselink.mil/transcrip...nscriptID=3845
    6 Speech by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad Dec. 24, 2004
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0
    7 9/11 and American Empire (Volume I) Intellectuals Speak Out edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott
    2006
    http://www.interlinkbooks.com/produc...118f454c5d7194
    8 Testimony of Maj. John M. Newman, PhD, Congressional Briefing: The 9/11 Commission Report – One Year Later
    July 22, 2005 http://www.vt911.org/McKinneyReport2...transcript.pdf
    9 Our Friends the Pakistanis by James Taranto, Wall Street Journal, Oct. 10, 2001
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=95001298
    10 Video of Question and Answer session with Raymond McGovern and Maj. Scott Ritter July 22, 2006
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwu0bNaUcOU
    11 I Do Not Wish to be Associated with Torture by Ray McGovern March 3, 2006
    http://www.antiwar.com/mcgovern/?articleid=8625
    12 Ray McGovern’s endorsement of 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out edited by David Ray Griffin
    and Peter Dale Scott. March, 2007
    http://www.interlinkbooks.com/produc...118f454c5d7194
    13 William Christison interviewed by George Kenney on Electric Politics. Sept. 29, 2006
    http://www.electricpolitics.com/podc...tual_inte.html
    – 22 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    14 Statement of Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven
    http://physics911.ca/members/
    15 William Christison’s endorsement of Debunking 9/11 Debunking by David Ray Griffin March 2007
    http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-M...ion/156656686X
    16 Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11 by William Christison Aug. 16, 2006
    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Christison14.htm
    17 Testimony of Melvin Goodman, PhD, Congressional Briefing: The 9/11 Commission Report – One Year Later July
    22, 2005 http://www.vt911.org/McKinneyReport2...transcript.pdf
    18 Quote of Seymour Hersh on Random House’s webpage for Robert Baer’s non-fiction memoir See No Evil
    http://www.randomhouse.ca/catalog/di...=9780739324134
    19 See No Evil (part 2) by Robert Baer in The Guardian January 12, 2002
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/extract1
    20 Robert Baer interviewed on The Thom Hartmann Show June 9, 2006
    http://www.911blogger.com/2006/06/fo...-comments.html
    21 FBI Documents Contradict 9/11 Commission Report by Larisa Alexandrovna Raw Story website February 28,
    2008 http://rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_do...sion_0228.html
    22 Robert Baer’s endorsement of the revised and updated edition of Debunking 9/11 Debunking by David Ray Griffin
    March 2007
    http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-M...ion/156656686X
    23 Robert David Steele’s review of the book, 9/11 Synthetic Terror by Webster Tarpley Oct. 7, 2006
    http://www.amazon.com/review/R1LNNW9...cm_cr_rdp_perm
    24 Robert David Steele interviewed on The Alex Jones Show Oct. 27, 2006
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...6googlecia.htm
    25 Letter to Congress challenging the 9/11 Commission Report from 25 military, intelligence service and law
    enforcement veterans September 14, 2004
    http://www.nswbc.org/Congressional%2...t%2013,%202004.
    htm
    26 Public Letter to 9/11 Commission Chairman from FBI Whistleblower by Sibel Edmonds August 1, 2004
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0802-06.htm
    27 Coleen Rowley’s May 21, 2002 Memo to FBI Director Robert Mueller quoted in the June 3 2002 issue of Time
    Magazine http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html
    28 The Truthtellers article on the NowPublic website August 5, 2006
    http://www.nowpublic.com/the_truthte...ack_ann_wright
    29 Complaint of Robert G. Wright, Jr. v Federal Bureau of Investigation May 9, 2002
    http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive...complaint1.pdf
    30 Judicial Watch press release September 11, 2002
    http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_2469.shtml
    31 Called Off the Trail? by Brian Ross and Vic Walter ABC News December 19, 2002
    http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=131907&page=1
    32 Tubegazing by Gloria Gooddale The Christian Science Monitor August 19,.2005
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0819/p12s05-altv.htm
    33 Promotional article for the video documentary On Native Soil broadcast August 21, 2005
    http://onnativesoil.com/media/stevebogdan.pdf
    – 23 –


    41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
    34 Interview of Steve Elson by Kevin Berger in Salon.com August 3, 2004
    http://www.secure-skies.org/Berger1.php
    35 Personal statement of Raymond Ciccolilli in support of the Architects and Engineers petition for a new
    investigation into 9/11 http://www.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=997508
    36 Video documentary, One Nation Under Siege Gen. Albert Stubblebine’s statement can be viewed at
    http://www.undersiegemovie.com/media/stubblebine.wmv
    37 Military Intelligence Hall of Fame Wikipedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...e_Hall_of_Fame
    38 Website of Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth
    http://pl911truth.com/
    39 Speech by Wayne Madsen at the DC 9/11 Truth Conference November, 11, 2006
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...911truth&hl=en
    40 This War on Terrorism is Bogus by Michael Meacher, Member of UK Parliament and former Minister for the
    Environment The Guardian September 6, 2003 http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ptember11.iraq
    41 Testimony of Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer before the Armed Services Committee of the U.S. House of
    Representatives, Feb. 15, 2006 http://www.investigativeproject.org/...timony/251.pdf
    42 Interview of Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer on Fox News Aug. 24, 2005
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...92088795&hl=en
    43 Navy Captain Backs Able Danger Claims, Fox News Aug. 23, 2005
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166504,00.html
    44 Video recording of statement by Maj. Scott Ritter July 22, 2006
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwu0bNaUcOU
    45 Vide recording of statement by Maj. Scott Ritter January 1, 2008
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjRneDoQm4E&e
    46 The American Reichstag Fire -911 and Non-investigation by Capt. Eric May 2005
    http://mujca.com/captain.htm
    47 Statement of Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler to Alan Miller for the PatriotsQuestion911.com website
    http://patriotsquestion911.com/Zeigler%20Statement.html
    48 The 9/11 Commission: A Play on Nothing in Three Acts by Sibel Edmonds and William Weaver September 5,
    2006 http://www.nswbc.org/Press%20Releases/NSWBC-911Comm.htm
    – 24 –


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    816

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    what do people expect from a society that allowed Bush to stay in office for more then a day.

    When you stop and think about this event for a moment you will realize that they are a real sick group of people who orchestrated this.

    Sorry folks these people don't give a rats behind about the USA or you.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by myglobalresults View Post
    what do people expect from a society that allowed Bush to stay in office for more then a day.

    When you stop and think about this event for a moment you will realize that they are a real sick group of people who orchestrated this.

    Sorry folks these people don't give a rats behind about the USA or you.
    i especially like the line about Elvis being alive being more likely than Osama Bin-Laden. they call it El-CIA-da for a reason.

    Poppy Bush and his spooks recruited and trained those guys. His family still parties and plays golf with Osama's brother.

    Poppy Bush was responsible for the Guns for Drugs deal that gave us the Crips, Bloods and tons of the White Lady all over our streets.

    Poppy Bush helped Saddam Hussein into power and coordinated the construction of his infrastructure.

    Poppy Bush set up the China White heroin pipeline that shipped skag bags home in the coffins of our fallen Vietnam heroes.

    Poppy Bush was in Dallas the day JFK died and has never given an accounting of his actions.

    Poppy Bush was decorated for jumping out of an airplane in WWII that could have been safely splash-landed leaving his crew to die. Anybody else would have gotten 12 years in Leavenworth for cowardice under fire.

    Prescott Bush helped finance Hitler's rise to power.

    Samuel Bush and George Herbert Walker were carpetbaggers of the first order in the Reconstruction period.

    these guys aren't new at murder and mayhem.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    why don't you blame the 41 highly trained and experienced civil servants who are crying foul instead of demanding that the discussion be banished to a backwater?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    not really.

    if you don't give a shit why did you get so involved in that other thread on WTC7 and refuse to even check out what some of these experts have to say?

    i noticed you made a comment about the debris strewn at the pentagon from whatever it was that hit it, yet one of these experts is saying there was no significant debris from an aircraft and it looked more like a missile strike to her.

  6. #6
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
    LogicallyYours is offline Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings. User Rank
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,352

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Medium View Post
    not really.

    if you don't give a shit why did you get so involved in that other thread on WTC7 and refuse to even check out what some of these experts have to say?

    i noticed you made a comment about the debris strewn at the pentagon from whatever it was that hit it, yet one of these experts is saying there was no significant debris from an aircraft and it looked more like a missile strike to her.

    Except, eye-witnesses watched/saw an airliner impact the Pentagon.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Except, eye-witnesses watched/saw an airliner impact the Pentagon.
    i am not ready to draw any conclusions one way or the other.

    i have watched in horror the things that warmongerers do since the day JFK was shot.

    consistently, the commissars who write up their reports find in favor of the popular story that implicates the fewest people possible. Mark Lane, the JFK researcher calls the procedure "plausible deniability".

    here's the account of an eyewitness who says otherwise:

    # Contributor to 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out 8/23/06: Account of Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, Pentagon employee and eyewitness to the events at the Pentagon on 9/11. "I believe the Commission failed to deeply examine the topic at hand, failed to apply scientific rigor to its assessment of events leading up to and including 9/11, failed to produce a believable and unbiased summary of what happened, failed to fully examine why it happened, and even failed to include a set of unanswered questions for future research. ...

    It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble with the official government conspiracy theory, mainly because it does not satisfy the rules of probability or physics. The collapses of the World Trade Center buildings clearly violate the laws of probability and physics. ...

    There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked [Pentagon] lawn, where I stood only minutes after the impact. Beyond this strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense [Donald Rumsfeld], who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a "missile". ...

    I saw nothing of significance at the point of impact - no airplane metal or cargo debris was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged building as smoke billowed from within the Pentagon. ... all of us staring at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for such debris, but what we expected to see was not evident.

    The same is true with regard to the kind of damage we expected. ... But I did not see this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small hole, no larger than 20 feet in diameter. Although this facade later collapsed, it remained standing for 30 or 40 minutes, with the roof line remaining relatively straight.

    The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by a large jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would expect if a missile had struck the Pentagon. ...

    More information is certainly needed regarding the events of 9/11 and the events leading up to that terrible day."

    =============================



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    those aren't my experts. those are our experts, as in "We, the People".

    the list i'm looking at has high-ranking military personnel and people with professional degrees who were on the government payroll in jobs that had "anti-terrorism expert" in the job description.

    there seems to be some question about those body parts and luggage you refer to. show me some photos. the only ones i've seen clearly show a lack of that kind of evidence.

    i saw a DC-10 crash and burn years ago at O'Hare in Chicago. there is a lot of debris --- and big, recognizable chunks. none of that is in any of the photos i've seen.


    watch the video on the link below. i do not see any of the debris you mentioned and not one tiny piece of an airplane there.


    http://www.und

    if you want to go on believing that the people who get elected and the career bureaucrats who run this country would never have anything to do with treason and murder against its own citizens for the sake of ramping up public support for military exploits with no justifiable reason other than profit motive go ahead, that is your right.

    i for one have seen otherwise over the years and carry a bullet in my back courtesy of the CIA's cocaine cartel for writing an expose on the black marketeers in my then home town of Venice Beach, California.

    fortunately, i had too much good evidence with my documents archived in my buddy's gun cabinet in Milwaukee and it was too risky for them to kill me. some of my fellows who act on their convictions rather than believe the experts that say only morons and loonatics believe in conspiracies were not so fortunate and had to be buried.

    believe what you like but don't disrupt discussions just because the topic runs counter to your belief system.


    Last edited by Happy Medium; 06-15-2009 at 05:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Medium View Post
    not really.

    if you don't give a shit why did you get so involved in that other thread on WTC7 and refuse to even check out what some of these experts have to say?

    i noticed you made a comment about the debris strewn at the pentagon from whatever it was that hit it, yet one of these experts is saying there was no significant debris from an aircraft and it looked more like a missile strike to her.
    A plane most certainly can and most certainly will incinerate the way it did when it hits a hard wall at such a fast speed. In fact, in 1988, Sandia National Labs conducted a test involving an F-4 Phantom crashing into a wall of concrete at about 480 mph and a velocity of about 215 meters per second. To quote, “The purpose of the test was to determine the impact force, versus time, due to the impact, of a complete F-4 Phantom — including both engines — onto a massive, essentially rigid reinforced concrete target (3.66 meters thick). Previous tests used F-4 engines at similar speeds. The test was not intended to demonstrate the performance (survivability) of any particular type of concrete structure to aircraft impact.

    See photos:

    http://autoracing.virgula.uol.com.br...ode=linearplus

    As you can see, the F-4 Phantom has been completely pulverized, consistent with the crash at The Pentagon. Even assuming that there did need to be some amount of debris left over from the crash, you should not expect to find most of it in the lawn. Not in this scenario. Judging by the dimensions of punctures in the facade, the vast majority of debris entered inside the building, and not out on the lawn. Regardless, there is still a rather wide and extensive field of debris. While there are few to none large pieces of debris, we should not expect that as seen above with test with the F-4 Phantom.

    The hole in The Pentagon is far too small to have been caused by a Boeing 757. It's completely inconsistent with such a crash, so it must have been caused by something else. Perhaps a cruise missile?

    To the contrary, the dimensions of the hole are entirely consistent with a Boeing 757 crash. This misconception is largely due to the promoters of such theories, whether intentionally or unintentionally, only showing photos of the second floor damage, where the first floor damage will be hidden by hoses or smoke. Photos of the damage to the Pentagon can be analyzed and compiled to deduce the precise dimensions of the hole.

    This photo also shows the feasibility of the dimensions. Notice the light-brown colors shaded in around portions of the red-shaded area. This is where lighter damage was done.



    On the second floor, there was indeed about 18 feet of significant damage. This would likely have been caused by the vertical tailwing. The first floor, however, shows a span of damage ranging to about 96 feet of significant damage. To give a better idea of the damage, I will quote Jim Hoffman from his essay “The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows”.


    As you can see, the dimensions are entirely consistent with a Boeing 757 crash. As a matter of fact, they are entirely inconsistent with a strike by a “cruise missile” or anything of the sort.

    Reports claim that the plane bounced off the lawn, but photos clearly show that the lawn is in perfect condition!

    No, photos show that a large portion of the lawn where the plane didn't bounce is in perfect condition. These photos tend to be deceiving due to the perspective, which makes things seem closer to The Pentagon than they really are. Take the following photo, where the chain-link fence at the right of the picture appears to be very close to The Pentagon.



    As it turns out, that fence is about 100 feet away from the facade of the building. Now to take a look at the following photo, we see that the lawn was not in perfect condition, to say the least.







    Investigators located and indentified many items from the crash including including the DNA of the passengers and parts positively identified to a Boeing 757.

    There are just loads of debris photos, like the one above, of the AC taken inside the Pentagon.

    77 FDA and CVR boxes found and turned over to the NTSB:American Flight

    "September 14, 2001 -- Searchers found the flight data and cockpit voice recorders about 4 a.m. today in the wreckage of the hijacked plane that slammed into the Pentagon on September 11, defense department officials said. The two "black boxes" will help investigators put together the puzzle of what happened during the doomed flight, said DoD spokesman Army Lt. Col. George H. Rhynedance. "The voice recorder will tell what was going on in the cockpit," he said. The data box, he said, will tell what was happening with the aircraft as it headed toward the Pentagon, such as its rate of turn. Information from the two boxes will help determine what actually happened during the flight, he said. The recorders were turned over the FBI. The recorders are now at the National Transportation Safety Board laboratory in Washington, where technicians are working to recover data on the recorders."

    Airplane debris including Flight 77's black boxes, the nose cone, landing gear, an airplane tire, the fuselage, an intact cockpit seat, and the tail number of the airplane were recovered at the crash site. The remains of passengers and crew from Flight 77 were found at the Pentagon crash site and their identities confirmed by DNA analysis. Numerous eyewitnesses saw the plane strike the Pentagon.

    Further, Flight 77 passengers made phone calls reporting that their airplane had been hijacked. For example, passenger Renee May called her mother to tell her that the plane had been hijacked and that the passengers had been herded to the back of the plane. Another passenger named Barbara Olson called her husband (US Solicitor General Theodore Olson and said that the flight had been hijacked, and that the hijackers had knives and box cutters.


    “A Conspiracy!” cried the delighted lady, clapping her hands. “Of all things, I do like a Conspiracy! It’s so interesting!” - Lewis Carroll, My Lady, Sylvie and Bruno (1889)
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 08-15-2009 at 12:25 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Medium View Post
    i saw a DC-10 crash and burn years ago at O'Hare in Chicago. there is a lot of debris --- and big, recognizable chunks. none of that is in any of the photos i've seen.
    AA Flight 191 is an entirely different scenario so your comparison here is of no relavance whatsoever. The flight departed from O'Hare, but it crashed some 5,000 feet past the end of it's runway. These are two different aircraft (size, weight, load, structural materials, fuel capacity) etc., at two different speeds, two different altitudes, two different attitudes, etc. The DC 10 crashed shortly after take-off and into an OPEN FIELD and not into a reinforced concrete building with reinforced concrete inner ring(s) structures.

    During the takeoff rotation (when the aircraft noses up and begins flight) of the doomed flight, the left engine and pylon assembly and about three feet of the leading edge of the left wing separated from the aircraft, and because of its thrust, actually flew out in front of the aircraft and over the wing and fell to the runway. Flight 191 continued to climb to about 325 ft above the ground and then began to roll to the left.
    The aircraft continued to roll to the left until the wings were past the vertical position, and during the roll, the aircraft's nose pitched down below the horizon.



    As you can see, while there is significant debris from the AC, some of the aircraft obviously disintegrated and burned upon impact. The large debris remaining is very typical of a crash to ground from this altitude and speed and can be in no way compared to AA flight 77. To do so is just completely ignorant frankly.

    And just because "you have not seen any photos of big recognizable chunks" of the debris from Flight 77, only shows you obviously cannot adequately perform a simple Google search. There are thousands of them readily available on the net.

    Damn, looks like the lawn in front of the Pentagon! And this appears to be the livery of AA at the time of this crash.

    Last edited by put it out there baby; 08-15-2009 at 12:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans










    Nose gear

    Rolls Royce Engine from AC








    recovered from interior of Pentagon




    Last edited by put it out there baby; 08-15-2009 at 01:37 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    Can a mod please remove just the last post above, if this is a problem?? Some of the photos need to be re-sized apparently. Sorry for the mistake, it was not intentional. I tried to delete the post and could not. (the edit button does not appear for me, as the size of some of the photos threw the content/size of the window for that post out of whack) Thanks.
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 08-15-2009 at 11:46 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    very well done. in fact, while i was studying your report, my thought was okay, the plane slammed into the building at high velocity and most of it entered the building and the size of the hole said the wing tips must have sheared off going in and at least those should be in the lawn. i once saw a light plane slam an apartment tower on take-off from meigs field in chicago. the tail was hanging out the living room window and the wings were on the ground.
    lo and behold, more thorough research yields photos that are obviously shattered wing parts in the lawn.

    thank you for not being profane and hostile-aggressive in your refutation of the missile-strike hypothesis. i am merely an observer who reports on what i see and hear. i haven't formed any conclusions about the incident except that it was most likely a set-up job for propaganda purposes to galvanize public support for escalation of hostilities in the oil and dope producing countries. i have drawn no conclusions about the mechanics of the incident.

    i take exception to the lack of data acquisition skills you allude to. call it a priority thing. i don't remember if i used google, yahoo or msn, but it was not very thorough and i do recall that some of the sources i used may have been biased because of support for the missile strike allegation.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    The truly sad part of any incident, fact, true data, situation, occurrence etc., is that there are always paranoid, unfounded, completely false "conspiracy " theories that are propogated by those with their own warped ideas, agendas and issues, often geared against "the government". Before espousing such nutball theories and utter tripe, a wise, thinking and prudent individual would simply conduct their own research into the subject.

    In layman's terms the crash dynamics worked like so: A large hollow tube, with a belly full of luggage, a passenger bay with 60 people, and wings full of fuel smashed into the side of an almost solid object while moving at a tremendous speed (somewhere around 350-400mph). When the 225,000lb+ plane hit, it smashed apart with such force from the crash that it became like one massive column of liquid (no, the plane didn't melt or turn into liquid, it just acted like one physically - mountainslides act the same way, a million tons of rock acts like a large field of liquid during a landslide even if no water is present). All the small parts, luggage, people, seats, and all the tens of thousands of pounds of fuel acting like a massive river came crashing into the wall of the Pentagon. This force burst through the outside wall and flowed through the inside to the next wall, and momentum carried this mass until it finally ran out of inertia at the 3rd ring.

    Size of 757 matches the initial size of hole in the building - somewhere between 13 and 16 feet (757 is 13 feet wide/high- fuselage).

    Rims found in building match those of a 757.

    Small turbine engine outside is an APU.

    Blue seats from 757 laying on ground in photos.

    One complete tire and other fragments of other tires, match those of a 757.

    Part of "American" fuselage logo visible
    Engine parts photographed inside match a Rolls-Royce RB211.

    Structural components photographed in wreckage match Boeing paint primer schemes Large deisel generator in front of building hit by a large heavy object.

    All of skin/hull pieces of the cabin recovered, were painted with AA's current (at the time of the incident) livery and primer.

    Large deisel engine outside is spun towards the building - could not be result of bomb blast or missile explosion.

    The conclusions of the NTSB are accurate and truthful.

    Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon
    60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage.

    The plane is tracked by ATC and that data is recorded.

    There is video footage of the crash taken by a security camera on the premises of the Pentagon.

    The recovery of the VDR and CDR.
    and just hundreds of others pieces of evidence were collected and exist.

    As a side note:13 passengers from Flight 93, made a total of over 30 calls to both family and emergency personnel (twenty-two confirmed air phone calls, two confirmed cell phone and eight not specified). all but two calls from Flight 93 were made on air phones, not cell phones, and both calls lasted about a minute before being dropped. Brenda Raney, Verizon Wireless spokesperson, said that Flight 93 was supported by several cell sites. There were reportedly three phone calls from Flight 11, five from Flight 75, and three calls from Flight 77. Two calls from these flights were recorded, placed by Flight Attendants Madeleine Sweeney and Betty Ong on Flight 11.

    Herein lies biggest problem that I personally have with this lame, inaccurate and clueless conspiracy theory. 64 human beings were killed/murdered on board this flight; 58 PAX and 6 Flight and Cabin Crew. 125 civilians and military personnel inside the Pentagon were also killed/murdered.

    It shows a complete lask of respect, dignity, decency, ethics and consideration for the families, friends, relatives, loved ones, and co-workers of those who died in this horrific tragedy by continuing to discount and dismiss the truth, the facts, the data and the research and continue to propagate such unfounded, inaccurate and harmful bullshit, frankly.

    There is nothing to be aggressive, profane or hostile about here. I am simply stating the facts and the truth. This incident and especially the two UAL hijackings in New York and the UAL hijacking over PA, hold very, very deep personal and profound meaning for me of which I will never forget to my dying day.
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 08-15-2009 at 01:30 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    your presentation moves me toward concluding that disputation of the presence of airliners at the pentagon and the wtc is wrong-headed.

    i still have seen nothing that disproves any help from inside wiring in bringing down the towers and certainly nothing that says okie city was what they want us to believe it was.

    i think it is a graver injustice to the survivor's families to summarily dismiss the possibility of any involvement in the plot by special interest groups with access to government resources (notice i am not pointing fingers at the government, per se, but those who manipulate it).

    i have been eyewitness to or interviewed eyewitnesses to lesser tragedies that were caused by acts of terrorism by parties of questionable allegiance since the police riots of the mid-60's in response to anti-war marches. i know there is an element of covert ops on the part of provacateurs controlled by the fbi and other agencies. i've seen them do it and met some of the assholes.

    look at the case of the kids at the republithug convention last year arrested for having molotov cocktails. those kids didn't plan to do that --- there was a provocateur who convinced them. same shit went down when campuses were bombed or peaceful demonstrations turned into riots.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: 9/11 conclusions challenged by veterans

    We are not speaking of other incidents here, or other half assed conjectures. We are discussing the facts, the truth and the data of this hijacking and subsequent crash of AA Flight 77 and as I mentioned in my last post, the same type of incident of AA Flight 11, UAL Flight 175, let alone UAL Flight 93 which which crashed in PA where the crew and pax made an incredibly brave and heroric attempt to take back control of this AC and indeed did foil the hijacker's flight plan by the sacrifice of their own lives.

    You simply do not "get it" do you? I am not going to engage in and respond to non factual, unfounded, half baked dialogues on ridiculous claims put forth by non experts and non qualified people with distorted agendas and thinking on this subject, who choose to believe any and every thing else, except the facts and the truth, now or ever.

    I have made and proven my point. You have not and you cannot.

    I do not have the time nor the inclination to re-hash what has already been proven a hundred times over to be the truth. For those who cannot and refuse to not believe the truth, I really do not care. That is their issue and not mine. You can believe the moon is made from candy bars and that the earth is flat for all it matters. This in no way changes the truth and the facts.

    When I happened upon this thread and read the assinine rant, I had to respond and set things straight and present the facts. These incidents are something very personal and forever life changing for me. Try to grasp that concept. To base conclusions on what you have "seen" and not "seen" is ridiculous. Obviously, as proven in my posts above, and now in regards to your comment referring to the twin towers events, you have not "seen" much and you have learned very little regarding the actual true facts in relationship to the incidents/events of 9/11. That seems to be the ongoing theme with you here and your posts. In fact, now that I have read many of your recent posts here on Scam, they pretty much speak for themselves and paint a rather disturbing picture.

    I am going to repeat this one more time for you and one more time only.

    It shows a complete lask of respect, dignity, decency, ethics and consideration for the families, friends, relatives, loved ones, and co-workers of those who died in this horrific tragedy by continuing to discount and dismiss the truth, the facts, the data and the research and continue to propagate such unfounded, inaccurate and harmful bullshit, frankly.

    This incident and especially the two UAL hijackings in New York and the UAL hijacking over PA, hold very, very deep personal and profound meaning for me of which I will never forget to my dying day. If you cannot understand and fully comprehend this statement, that is your issue.

    You may choose believe any crazy theories and bullshit that you wish. I however do not live my life this way. My thinking is rational and logical, based on experience, science, the truth, the facts, the data and the research and not on bullshit.

    Flail away all you care to, but show some serious respect for the 2,974 victims of 9/11. Extend some real character and integrity, if you posess any, or at the very least some sympathy and sensitivity, for these events. To behave otherwise, is pathetic, painful, sad and disgusting.
    Last edited by put it out there baby; 08-15-2009 at 10:04 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Wow ... Gun Owners are fing mentally challenged
    By rodney walker II in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-30-2014, 08:59 PM
  2. MCA asscts ... mentally challenged
    By rodney walker II in forum MLM Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-20-2014, 09:33 AM
  3. Obama's supporters force mentally challenged
    By Thorgrimm in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-18-2008, 02:25 PM
  4. Mentally Challenged
    By 6seven8 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-04-2006, 09:00 AM
  5. Rice Is Challenged in Europe Over Secret Prisons
    By sojustask in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-07-2005, 07:09 PM

Tags for this Thread

Add / Edit Tags
$100, 129, 9/11, a new pearl harbor, accounting, acted, activities, acts, agreement, air, airport, alleged, allowing, ambassador, apartment, approved, area, attempts, attitude, authors, avia, baghdad, bags, bin, bitch, bogus, bomb, bomber, boxes, cabinet, capabilities, captain, catch, chan, chase, che, clock, code, collected, commissioned, components, conspiracy, contemptible, couldn, crack, crew, cruise, cruise missile, crypto, declared, designs, differently, diploma, disrupt, dope, duped, elliot, engine, engineer, establishment, evidence, experience, explained, extended, extra, focus, fond, forensic, fred, gas, gay, gerald, government, hear, held, hyper, illness, images, impact, important, indicating, individuals, industry, information, insanity, israelis, johns, joint, kennedy, laden, leaked, learn, leone, letter to congress, manipulates, martin, men, middle, moore, mossad, motives, nam, nature, neatly, new york post, number, obamas, objects, offer, operation, opinion, owned, passports, peas, penis, pennsylvania, people, perception, photos, pissing, plan, prepared, prescription, print, public opinion, pukes, random, raw, reality, recommend, refused, regular, reports, reward, riots, robert, rolls, ronald reagan, rope, sale, secretary, secrets, seismic, serve, session, seymour, sharing, sierra, stranger, stripped, submit, support, tap, tara, tools, transportation, treason, trumped, tunes, typing, unfortunate, united airlines, united states, upper, vans, verifiable, version, veteran, vice, weed, weiner, wireless, work, youth

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •