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  1. #1
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    drugged oldies is easier than care..

    HERE IS A MEDICAL SCAM...psychotropics are a major part of the scientific solution to old age these days...

    we all want to live a long and full life, but if you end up in a nursing home watch out....despite 2-5% of our elders being diagnosed with depression ..

    a minimum 16% of our elderly patients worldwide are taking these antidepressives in private dwellings and in nursing homes the rate/prevalence goes up to 66% on average. Remember only 2-5% are actually depressed......

    If you are female and over 50 you are 3 times more likely to walking around with a permanently glazed expression...than your male counterpart...

    Anyway...we are drugging our oldies to keep them sedated and happy while we hold them in house arrest or nursing homes...
    How can doctors justify this?

    ...your thoughts?:judges:
    Last edited by reentry; 05-29-2009 at 06:01 PM. Reason: this forum is not ready for this level yet

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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    if this is your OBSERVATION of THINGS as they ARE!? why are YOU asking for CORROBORATION!? is to give YOU the COURAGE to ACT!? did you see the movie TERMINATOR salvation!? what does it TAKE to ACT against the SEEN elements of human DESTRUCTION!? OK we live in a democracy of INFORMED choice!? is that what you are driving at like any POLITICIAN!? do you want to LIVE forever asks the CONAN!? then set your FACE to SAVE as it applies to saving face!? for who demands the SAVE but the FORLORN and LOST!? i made this whole thing up like a lost and forlorn!? what do you think of it!? did i go where no man has gone!? did i trade anothers shoes for my own!? FVCK NO!? i'm just PLAYIN with ya!? you DECIDE!? :freak3: :spin2: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Hello Lexx, I always have trouble interpreting you...so if I am wrong please forgive me..
    I have produced a literature review that has been posted for peer review in Cochrane... I am actually advocating for change...not just doing nothing or talking....I will get hospital and nursing homes policies changed / modified...that is what I am saying and sharing...I did the research...not just posted an opinion...it took 5 yrs but this is the way things are done in the real world...not on forums like this.....
    I hope this clarifies things.


    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    if this is your OBSERVATION of THINGS as they ARE!? why are YOU asking for CORROBORATION!? is to give YOU the COURAGE to ACT!? did you see the movie TERMINATOR salvation!? what does it TAKE to ACT against the SEEN elements of human DESTRUCTION!? OK we live in a democracy of INFORMED choice!? is that what you are driving at like any POLITICIAN!? do you want to LIVE forever asks the CONAN!? then set your FACE to SAVE as it applies to saving face!? for who demands the SAVE but the FORLORN and LOST!? i made this whole thing up like a lost and forlorn!? what do you think of it!? did i go where no man has gone!? did i trade anothers shoes for my own!? FVCK NO!? i'm just PLAYIN with ya!? you DECIDE!? :freak3: :spin2: :
    Last edited by reentry; 05-29-2009 at 09:26 PM. Reason: spelling

  4. #4
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Seems this issue is boring to most...or I have chosen a poor title..
    either way my apologies...

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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    to care is to "know" care itself!? to acknowledge it and honor it and keep it's commandments!? we do what we "know" and respect!? what is life but a war of impressions to "own" the soul!? and how does 1 decide how to "direct" or aid in this battle worn journey for outcomes!? :judges: :freak3: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  6. #6
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Sorry Lexx I dont feel I can answer or follow your point?
    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    to care is to "know" care itself!? to acknowledge it and honor it and keep it's commandments!? we do what we "know" and respect!? what is life but a war of impressions to "own" the soul!? and how does 1 decide how to "direct" or aid in this battle worn journey for outcomes!? :judges: :freak3: :

  7. #7
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Quote Originally Posted by reentry View Post
    HERE IS A MEDICAL SCAM...psychotropics are a major part of the scientific solution to old age these days...

    we all want to live a long and full life, but if you end up in a nursing home watch out....despite 2-5% of our elders being diagnosed with depression ..

    a minimum 16% of our elderly patients worldwide are taking these antidepressives in private dwellings and in nursing homes the rate/prevalence goes up to 66% on average. Remember only 2-5% are actually depressed......

    If you are female and over 50 you are 3 times more likely to walking around with a permanently glazed expression...than your male counterpart...

    Anyway...we are drugging our oldies to keep them sedated and happy while we hold them in house arrest or nursing homes...
    How can doctors justify this?

    ...your thoughts?:judges:
    I can't speak for others but I am over 50(67 to be precise) and my doctor has me on Paxil for depression. Its a long story so I'll keep it short. I smoked cigarettes for 30 years and one week after starting paxil, I quit...cold turkey...no problem...and I had been trying to quit for years..its been two years now. My moods are stable and I'm more interested in the things I love to do than I have been in ages...I'm certainly not going around with a permanent glaze in my eyes....I feel better than I have in years. It works for me.
    I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck. ~Emma Goldman

  8. #8
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Thats great to hear...this is not about individuals though..the use of psychotropics has serious side effects if taken for more than medium term illness. Paxil is not alloewed to be used in Australia but heres a site for perusal of side effects...http://www.rxlist.com/paxil-drug.htm
    or http://www.rxlist.com/paxil-drug.htm you will see glaxo acually has never done a long term study on it...mean study length is actually 2 months...they admit it doesnt work long term...by 'However, there is substantial evidence from placebo-controlled maintenance trials in adults with depression that the use of antidepressants can delay the recurrence of depression" notice the use of the term delay...it actually increased suicide rates in children and younger adults up to 24 yrs...
    We have to be carefull as its addictive..."If the decision has been made to discontinue treatment, medication should be tapered, as rapidly as is feasible, but with recognition that abrupt discontinuation can be associated with certain symptoms (see PRECAUTIONS and DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION - Discontinuation of Treatment With PAXIL, for a description of the risks of discontinuation of PAXIL)."
    but thats just this SSRI.some are worse some are better.. They are happy pills for depression, this medication is not a recommended way to quit smoking either, happy you did but it is not the primary reason you were given them and should not be a factor in ceasing them. That is a very strange logic...
    THIs drug in particular warns of "The development of a potentially life-threatening serotonin syndrome or Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome (NMS)-like reactions have been reported with SNRIs and SSRIs alone, including treatment with PAXIL, but particularly with concomitant use of serotonergic drugs (including triptans) with drugs which impair metabolism of serotonin (including MAOIs), or with antipsychotics or other dopamine antagonists. Serotonin syndrome symptoms may include mental status changes (e.g., agitation, hallucinations, coma), autonomic instability (e.g., tachycardia, labile blood pressure, hyperthermia), neuromuscular aberrations (e.g., hyperreflexia, incoordination) and/or gastrointestinal symptoms (e.g., nausea, vomiting, diarrhea). Serotonin syndrome, in its most severe form can resemble neuroleptic malignant syndrome, which includes hyperthermia, muscle rigidity, autonomic instability with possible rapid fluctuation of vital signs, and mental status changes. Patients should be monitored for the emergence of serotonin syndrome or NMS-like signs and symptoms." ....

    Alternate therapies that are not as caustic to the body and psyche are not explored because of the type of attitude you have bravely shared.but .if a person is on happy pills...of course they are not going to feel its bad..Problem is the meds are good when used as intended...but doctors use them as a long term solution...the patients are drugged up and happy they are not about to complain...are they...

    You are taking mind altering substances, of course you are not going to argue against them...no one does..thats why its wrong and insidious...

    I know ithis forum is more a social club than info sharing so I was trying to keep it simple enough to invite thoughts and opinions such as yours. Thanks for your response.

    I also thought there might be a bit of outrage, but I was wrong. it seems....Heres a few recent studies and reviews to digest...I dont expect anyone to take my word on it...

    Unfortunately your point of veiw is like asking a heroin addict if they feel better after the have shot up...its very similar psychologically and I cringe that we are happy to use this for elderly patients...
    I suppose it saves spending time on them......the problem with the long term psychotropic strategy is they are designed or recommended (see a US MIMS or the pds in your packet) They are designed to get you through a short term difficult patch...not long term use..After a while reasonable period your personality will never be able to cope in the real world AGAIN without being loaded with happy pills. It confuses and warps your responses. The only way out after a few months is intensive therapy ... (you have to learn again like a child to control your emotions) as you lose the ability to cope with stress because you never have had to excersize it lately...blunt affect its called in the DSM TR IV......

    Long term use impacts adversely on many body organs (not a case of maybe...it does.. liver function test / neuro obs etc.. never return to normal)
    LONG TERM USE of these things is a serious health issue... not risk as their is no doubt......the only way off them is long term counselling as those taking them lose perception of the world and of themself ...this gets warped by these things, you have been on for two years ..you may not recognise you if you met you. ( a lot depends on the dosage and frequency).....Psychotropics are good for those really sick individuals whom need short term help.. ...but are too often used as modern "aged care eckies" for others and pacifiers/dummies for the elderly and confused .....great for 15 min consults and you dont have to refer....
    Oldies cant help or speak for themselves...the're drugged...thats why younger gens need to become outraged at it.
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2006). 4364.0 - National Health Survey: Summary of Results, 2004-2005. Canberra, Australian Capital Territory: Author. pp. 34-36. [/font]

    Beers, M.H. (1997). Explicit Criteria for Determining Potentially Inappropriate Medication Use by the Elderly - An Update. Archives of Internal Medicine. 157 (14), 1531-1536.

    Colman, I., Wadsworth, M.E., Croudace, T. J., & Jones. P.B. (2006). Three decades of antidepressant, anxiolytic and hypnotic use in a national population birth cohort. British Journal of Psychiatry. 189, 156-60

    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Gallagher, P.F., Barry, P.J., Ryan, C., Hartigan, I. & Denis O'Mahony. (2008). Inappropriate prescribing in an acutely ill population of elderly patients as determined by Beers' Criteria. Age and Ageing, 37(1), 96-101. [/font][FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Retrieved April 7, 2009, from Research Library database. [/font]
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif'] [/font]
    Goldney, R.D. & Fisher, L.J. (2005). Use of prescribed medications in a south Australian community sample. Medical Journal of Australia, 183(5), 251-253.

    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Helka, M.V., Hosia-Randell, K., Muirinen, S.J., & Pitkala, K.H. (2008). Exposure to Potentially Inappropriate Drugs and Drug-Drug Interactions in Elderly Nursing Home Residents in Helsinki, Finland - A Cross Sectional Study. Drugs and Aging, 25(8), 683-692. [/font][FONT='Times New Roman','serif'] [/font]
    Hughes, C.M., & Lapane, K. L. (2005). Administrative initiatives for reducing Inappropriate Prescribing of Psychotropic Drugs in Nursing Homes- How Successful Have They Been? Drugs & Aging. 22(4), 339-351. .

    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Johnell, K., & Fastbom, J. (2008). Multi-dose drug dispensing and inappropriate drug use: A nationwide register-based study of over 700,000 elderly. Scandinavian Journal of Primary Health Care, 26(2), 86-91. [/font]
    Laroche, M., Charmes, J., Nouaille, Y., Fourrier, A., & Merle, L. (2006). Impact of Hospitalisation in an Acute Medical Geriatric Unit on Potentially Inappropriate Medication Use.(2006). Drugs & Aging, 23(1), 49-59.
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']O’Mahony, D., & Gallagher, P.F., (2008). Inappropriate prescribing in the older population: need for new criteria.Age and Ageing, 37, 138–141. . [/font]
    Quote Originally Posted by peregrine View Post
    I can't speak for others but I am over 50(67 to be precise) and my doctor has me on Paxil for depression. Its a long story so I'll keep it short. I smoked cigarettes for 30 years and one week after starting paxil, I quit...cold turkey...no problem...and I had been trying to quit for years..its been two years now. My moods are stable and I'm more interested in the things I love to do than I have been in ages...I'm certainly not going around with a permanent glaze in my eyes....I feel better than I have in years. It works for me.
    Its hard to tell people their crutch of choice is killing the person they have become...as Huxley said...give me soma...till im in a coma...
    Last edited by reentry; 06-04-2009 at 12:41 AM. Reason: spelling and too harsh. research

  9. #9
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    You haven't read "Prozac Nation" or saw the film??? Its just not older people using anti-depression medications. My doctor explained is simply that as we get older and taking into account our life's experiences; we can experience a chemical inbalance in the brain which causes depression. Increasing the serontonin levels can help and that is what my medication does. I see my doctor once a year if I'm not sick and we discuss the treatment and keep each other up to date.


    :angel:
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Hey if drugs will caue your body harm, then I can think of no better time to use them than when I'm old and feeble.

    I'm probably going to OD on extacy when I'm 70... maybe meth. I'll have lost my teeth anyways :) Go out with a bang!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  11. #11
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    No I haven't...I will stick to real research rather than films...I am glad your seeing your doctor and sorry that sense cannot reach you...good luck with everything...I am a doctor and have rough idea of what you are talking about, I am pretty good with SSRI'S and MAOI'S etc...pity you seem to be convinced of the benefits ut happy to remain unaware of the cons..discuss it with your GP maybe or read the DSM TR IV on these drugs..you can do it online......did you read any of the research I posted? You may have to log onto google scholar or a University e-library to access some... but most should be available via google scholar.....I am guessing from your response you have not bothered and are happy...I guess the drugs are working then.......
    Ps...smiling, exersize, sex, pleasure, achievment and Electro Convulsive Therapy(ECT) also release seratonin,...The whole point of this post is to show how some doctors are lazy or time poor and just go this route as it's an easy and accepted out......even though they know better ...simply because they can! and noone really ever questions it or ever complains about being made happier... Remember that mood stablisers such as lithium are very different to the mind altering drugs such as paxil...or any of the psychotropics..

    The research I provided is real and credible..look it up....you will see truth or not, I cannot help you further.....

    But its not your cohort I aimed this at ...its the younger gens..to try apply pressure awareness to reduce /eliminate the prevalence of long term psychotropic prescription being issued to your cohort in the future.
    Did you understand the long term issues?
    Did you get the world wide research finding over the lasyt 5 years....

    2-5% max of people over 65 were depressed...over 40-66%% were on antidepressants...no light bulb moments?
    3 times more women than men...the fact they increase suicides in teenagers but are still prescribed to them...
    I give up on logic with you for now.

    I will pray for you though.

    Quote Originally Posted by peregrine View Post
    You haven't read "Prozac Nation" or saw the film??? Its just not older people using anti-depression medications. My doctor explained is simply that as we get older and taking into account our life's experiences; we can experience a chemical inbalance in the brain which causes depression. Increasing the serontonin levels can help and that is what my medication does. I see my doctor once a year if I'm not sick and we discuss the treatment and keep each other up to date.


    :angel:
    BRAVE NEW WORLD...a good read I thought and relevant here...
    Last edited by reentry; 06-04-2009 at 06:20 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    I hope you have the choice...you won't if you are off your rocker but thinking your fine...on psychotropics...
    ps...most people are still pretty active at 65..late 70's now before they really slow down from my observations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post
    Hey if drugs will caue your body harm, then I can think of no better time to use them than when I'm old and feeble.

    I'm probably going to OD on extacy when I'm 70... maybe meth. I'll have lost my teeth anyways :) Go out with a bang!
    Last edited by reentry; 06-04-2009 at 07:36 AM. Reason: spelling your youre..trying to be tolerant of foolishness

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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Quote Originally Posted by reentry View Post
    No I haven't...I will stick to real research rather than films...I am glad your seeing your doctor and sorry that sense cannot reach you...good luck with everything...I am a doctor and have rough idea of what you are talking about, I am pretty good with SSRI'S and MAOI'S etc...pity you seem to be convinced of the benefits ut happy to remain unaware of the cons..discuss it with your GP maybe or read the DSM TR IV on these drugs..you can do it online......did you read any of the research I posted? You may have to log onto google scholar or a University e-library to access some... but most should be available via google scholar.....I am guessing from your response you have not bothered and are happy...I guess the drugs are working then.......
    Ps...smiling, exersize, sex, pleasure, achievment and Electro Convulsive Therapy(ECT) also release seratonin,...The whole point of this post is to show how some doctors are lazy or time poor and just go this route as it's an easy and accepted out......even though they know better ...simply because they can! and noone really ever questions it or ever complains about being made happier... ..

    The research I provided is real and credible..look it up....you will see truth or not, I cannot help you further.....

    But its not your cohort I aimed this at ...its the younger gens..to try apply pressure awareness to reduce /eliminate the prevalence of long term psychotropic prescription being issued to your cohort in the future.
    Did you understand the long term issues?
    Did you get the world wide research finding over the lasyt 5 years....

    2-5% max of people over 65 were depressed...over 40-66%% were on antidepressants...no light bulb moments?
    3 times more women than men...the fact they increase suicides in teenagers but are still prescribed to them...
    I give up on logic with you for now.

    I will pray for you though.
    Well your right, we are not going to agree on this issue...I have had no side effects of anykind. I worked for a pharmaceutical company for over 35 years so I've seen alot of research on the subject...I believe it presents more of a problem for teenagers..thats when alternative therapies should be tried. I simply think its too risky for them.


    :spin2:
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Fair enough ...research and fact obviously lose to your thoughts...
    I give up ...you have me...
    Your refusal to deal with the real worlds proof and clutching to the drug induced world has just proven my whole point...

    ps...regular monitoring for adverse side effects of paxil..is not an annual thing...i hope you were being sparing with the truth or I misunderstood. ...check the glaxo info i provided...in any country.
    I will pray for all people in your position.
    Quote Originally Posted by peregrine View Post
    Well your right, we are not going to agree on this issue...I have had no side effects of anykind. I worked for a pharmaceutical company for over 35 years so I've seen alot of research on the subject...I believe it presents more of a problem for teenagers..thats when alternative therapies should be tried. I simply think its too risky for them.


    :spin2:
    Last edited by reentry; 06-04-2009 at 08:17 AM.

  15. #15
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    Quote Originally Posted by reentry View Post
    Fair enough ...research and fact obviously lose to your thoughts...
    I give up ...you have me...
    Your refusal to deal with the real worlds proof and clutching to the drug induced world has just proven my whole point...

    ps...regular monitoring for adverse side effects of paxil..is not an annual thing...i hope you were being sparing with the truth or I misunderstood. ...check the glaxo info i provided...in any country.
    I will pray for all people in your position.
    Do you also think that children's' vaccinations can cause autism?
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    Re: drugged oldies is easier than care..

    what?...totally another theme...your ignorance is showing again...start a thread if you want...I will gladly contribute..which vaccinations are you talking about?. You do realise virology is a whole different discipline dont you and nothing to do with this thread.......there were some mistakes in the 60's with attenuated vaccines like sabin etc...but look at the outcomes of the pandemic in the 40's...and pharma's dont often play with live attenuated viruses anymore ...just your govt does...ie marburg...but you guys should know all about it and the other stuff like the USA govt actually experimented on you in the 60's... and released viruses over american cities via ballons..etc... operation sea spray...http://www.sunysccc.edu/academic/mst...es/23smarc.htm
    As per usual your population has just accepted it, no public outcry or accountability... ...Do I believe vaccinations save hundreds of thousands of lives per year? yes I do ...and I wish the third world had better access to them...
    but start another thread on it...

    alternatively look up herd immunity and think about the fundamentals of it and how it applies to the publics protection.....you might learn something...

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Do you also think that children's' vaccinations can cause autism?
    Last edited by reentry; 06-05-2009 at 03:27 AM.

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