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  1. #1
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    Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    South Dakota's abortion ban won't end or even cut down on abortions among the women in that state, and it probably will have disastrous effects on their health and lives. Laws and policies on abortion and contraceptives should not punish women and girls for doing what they feel they must to live with dignity.

    What do you all think? Before you respond checkout this interesting example from Latin America where this same law was implemented:

    http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politi...6/abortion.htm

  2. #2
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    It's all just ridiculous. The government is trying to control freedom. If a woman wants an abortion she should get it.
    There are many disadvantages, such as guilt and depression at a later date, but I don't think a fetus should be scientifically classified as a human being and therefore it's not murder.

    It's just like the creation vs. evolution debate. It's religion loosely veiled with science. What's happening is that religious views on abortion are being forced on people.
    So much for a separation of church and state!

  3. #3
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Pike and subjunk, My wife and I had a baby girl several years back that was born prematurely. She was born with 2 arms two legs and everything in tact except for her lungs. The doctors told us her chances were not good and we should spend what little time we had with her. We stayed there at the hospital that day holding her and praying for a miracle. She was alive and responsive to us. Later on that day while I was holding her she just stopped breathing like the doctors said would happen. But what we had, if just for a while, was a living Baby girl. It made me sick to find out that she was at the age where they can still do late term abortions.
    You are wrong. A fetus is a human being.

  4. #4
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    It's all just ridiculous. The government is trying to control freedom. If a woman wants an abortion she should get it.
    There are many disadvantages, such as guilt and depression at a later date, but I don't think a fetus should be scientifically classified as a human being and therefore it's not murder.

    It's just like the creation vs. evolution debate. It's religion loosely veiled with science. What's happening is that religious views on abortion are being forced on people.
    So much for a separation of church and state!
    This is just the beginning. You watch now, the Bible has already pegged this kind of stuff to happen. Unfortunately, there are two types of peoples in the area of religion; Christians, and "religious" people. The religious people are the ones to watch out for. They are the ones to force what they would like to on people, for no other reason than to impose and control. Remember one thing; God always gives freedom of choice; anyone acting contrary to that is obviously not on God's side. Even though God gives us freedom to choose, sometimes, those choices have a consequence.

    As for the women, not only depression and guilt, but others who attempt suicide because of their ordeal. There is a high suicide rate among women who had abortions.

  5. #5
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by gools68
    Pike and subjunk, My wife and I had a baby girl several years back that was born prematurely. She was born with 2 arms two legs and everything in tact except for her lungs. The doctors told us her chances were not good and we should spend what little time we had with her. We stayed there at the hospital that day holding her and praying for a miracle. She was alive and responsive to us. Later on that day while I was holding her she just stopped breathing like the doctors said would happen. But what we had, if just for a while, was a living Baby girl. It made me sick to find out that she was at the age where they can still do late term abortions.
    You are wrong. A fetus is a human being.
    I couldn't imagine going through what you went through. We almost lost our 5 year old when he had to go through heart surgery. It wasn't any picnic. A friend of mine had a pre-mature baby, and he was wanting to have a boy so bad, as he already had a couple of girls. The baby boy was born too early and took his last breath while my friend held him. The baby was so small that he fit in my friend's hand. It is so sad that things like this happen in life.

    The only way I would think about abortion being somewhat allowable is in a rape or molestation situation. Just doing it for birth control should be discouraged, in my opinion. If girls/women were shown the statistic rates of suicide for women post-abortion, they would maybe change their minds. I have a relative who still has "issues", 30 years after she had two abortions. A person would need to learn how to heal/cope with those feelings. It isn't exactly a natural event, and even a miscarriage can be prevented, but of course, we are never taught how to do so. We are kept in the dark on so many things it makes me sick when I finally find out the truth.

  6. #6
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawb
    I couldn't imagine going through what you went through. We almost lost our 5 year old when he had to go through heart surgery. It wasn't any picnic. A friend of mine had a pre-mature baby, and he was wanting to have a boy so bad, as he already had a couple of girls. The baby boy was born too early and took his last breath while my friend held him. The baby was so small that he fit in my friend's hand. It is so sad that things like this happen in life.

    The only way I would think about abortion being somewhat allowable is in a rape or molestation situation. Just doing it for birth control should be discouraged, in my opinion. If girls/women were shown the statistic rates of suicide for women post-abortion, they would maybe change their minds. I have a relative who still has "issues", 30 years after she had two abortions. A person would need to learn how to heal/cope with those feelings. It isn't exactly a natural event, and even a miscarriage can be prevented, but of course, we are never taught how to do so. We are kept in the dark on so many things it makes me sick when I finally find out the truth.
    I know, my sister was told some years ago that if she ever got prenant again it could kill her, she said she might consider abortion if it ever happened. Her husband had the operation so she wouldnt get pregnant, but it happened and I have a cool as hell nephew. But my point is, sometimes its hard to know what to do in certain situations.
    Im glad everything went good for your son. Thats tough on anyone let alone a child.

  7. #7
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by gools68
    I know, my sister was told some years ago that if she ever got prenant again it could kill her, she said she might consider abortion if it ever happened. Her husband had the operation so she wouldnt get pregnant, but it happened and I have a cool as hell nephew. But my point is, sometimes its hard to know what to do in certain situations.
    Im glad everything went good for your son. Thats tough on anyone let alone a child.
    I agree. Sometimes when one thinks they have all the angles covered, something else unforeseen pops up.

    Thank you for caring. Do you have any children presently ? I can imagine there would be a lot of memories and emotion involved after a tragedy like that. If it's too painful to write about, that is okay. Totally understandable.

  8. #8
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    I have a 12 rear old daughter. Starting what I call the terrible teens. I just say that because I know what I was like to my parents as a teen. They say you reap what you sow, but im praying for mercy.

  9. #9
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by gools68
    I have a 12 rear old daughter. Starting what I call the terrible teens. I just say that because I know what I was like to my parents as a teen. They say you reap what you sow, but im praying for mercy.

    haha, that is true. I have 5 kids, the oldest being 9. They are all pretty strong willed already. I cannot imagine what the teenage years will bring. :eek:

  10. #10
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by gools68
    Pike and subjunk, My wife and I had a baby girl several years back that was born prematurely. She was born with 2 arms two legs and everything in tact except for her lungs. The doctors told us her chances were not good and we should spend what little time we had with her. We stayed there at the hospital that day holding her and praying for a miracle. She was alive and responsive to us. Later on that day while I was holding her she just stopped breathing like the doctors said would happen. But what we had, if just for a while, was a living Baby girl. It made me sick to find out that she was at the age where they can still do late term abortions.
    You are wrong. A fetus is a human being.
    I'm sorry to hear that and for your loss, it's very sad.
    How old was your daughter when she was born?

  11. #11
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by gools68
    Pike and subjunk, My wife and I had a baby girl several years back that was born prematurely. She was born with 2 arms two legs and everything in tact except for her lungs. The doctors told us her chances were not good and we should spend what little time we had with her. We stayed there at the hospital that day holding her and praying for a miracle. She was alive and responsive to us. Later on that day while I was holding her she just stopped breathing like the doctors said would happen. But what we had, if just for a while, was a living Baby girl. It made me sick to find out that she was at the age where they can still do late term abortions.
    You are wrong. A fetus is a human being.
    It's not so much that my point is that a fetus isn't a human being...
    I agree with you completely that abortions in the U.S. are allowed to be carried out too late into the pregnancy, I wouldn't at all oppose the idea of a new law stating that abortions must be had earlier than they already are allowed.

    There are a lot of points which I agree with that state why abortions should be allowed at all.
    I believe that until a fetus is out of the womb it hasn't experienced anything yet. I realise they do respond to things such as music in the womb, but I don't believe they experience things in the way babies outside of the womb do.
    So I think that if the mother has seriously contemplated the abortion (this part has nothing to do with law of course, if she says she has but hasn't she's only harming herself) and that she's come to the conclusion that for any reason she deems to be valid she doesn't want that baby, she should have that choice.

    Perhaps if she had it to hold in her arms she would realise that she shouldn't kill it, perhaps it would be the most considerate and morally right thing to do to have it and put it up for adoption afterwards, but I don't believe it's the government's place to force those kinds of morals on her.
    If she is a selfish person who can't be bothered being pregnant for 9 months and going through the labour process even though at the end she will have a beautiful little baby, why should we force her to not do that? We might hate it and lose respect for her as a person, but that doesn't mean we should make a law about it.

    Also I realise I'm debating against points you haven't made, I am more addressing everyone, as these are common arguments.

    On a slightly more personal note:
    I'm 100% sure that your daughter experienced her time with you and that your time together as a family was precious, I'm in no way trying to deny that. I appreciate your openness to tell that story to a group of strangers also, that took courage and strength.

  12. #12
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    It's not so much that my point is that a fetus isn't a human being...
    I agree with you completely that abortions in the U.S. are allowed to be carried out too late into the pregnancy, I wouldn't at all oppose the idea of a new law stating that abortions must be had earlier than they already are allowed.

    There are a lot of points which I agree with that state why abortions should be allowed at all.
    I believe that until a fetus is out of the womb it hasn't experienced anything yet. I realise they do respond to things such as music in the womb, but I don't believe they experience things in the way babies outside of the womb do.
    So I think that if the mother has seriously contemplated the abortion (this part has nothing to do with law of course, if she says she has but hasn't she's only harming herself) and that she's come to the conclusion that for any reason she deems to be valid she doesn't want that baby, she should have that choice.

    Perhaps if she had it to hold in her arms she would realise that she shouldn't kill it, perhaps it would be the most considerate and morally right thing to do to have it and put it up for adoption afterwards, but I don't believe it's the government's place to force those kinds of morals on her.
    If she is a selfish person who can't be bothered being pregnant for 9 months and going through the labour process even though at the end she will have a beautiful little baby, why should we force her to not do that? We might hate it and lose respect for her as a person, but that doesn't mean we should make a law about it.

    Also I realise I'm debating against points you haven't made, I am more addressing everyone, as these are common arguments.

    On a slightly more personal note:
    I'm 100% sure that your daughter experienced her time with you and that your time together as a family was precious, I'm in no way trying to deny that. I appreciate your openness to tell that story to a group of strangers also, that took courage and strength.
    Thanks for your reply, Her name is Savanah Nicole, and she was 22 weeks when she was born. It hurts to know that abortions can be performed up to 24 weeks.

    I started feeling very strongly about my views on abortion after that. I agree with you that a baby in the womb doesnt experiance the same things as a baby that has been delivered, but I feel that is because they havent had that opportunity yet, its not that they cant experiace it, they have just never been exposed to it. I believe that the unborn child has a right to experiance life outside the womb.

    I also agree with you that If the woman would just have the baby, even if she gives it up, she will be glad she did.

    Savanah changed a lot of peoples minds that got to see her. Our family and friends that were there all walked away with a different point of view.

  13. #13
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by gools68
    Thanks for your reply, Her name is Savanah Nicole, and she was 22 weeks when she was born. It hurts to know that abortions can be performed up to 24 weeks.

    I started feeling very strongly about my views on abortion after that. I agree with you that a baby in the womb doesnt experiance the same things as a baby that has been delivered, but I feel that is because they havent had that opportunity yet, its not that they cant experiace it, they have just never been exposed to it. I believe that the unborn child has a right to experiance life outside the womb.

    I also agree with you that If the woman would just have the baby, even if she gives it up, she will be glad she did.

    Savanah changed a lot of peoples minds that got to see her. Our family and friends that were there all walked away with a different point of view.
    Yes I would support the refining of the law so that abortions can only be performed in the embryonic stage, so roughly 16 weeks. That gives a woman enough time to realise she's pregnant and consider all the options before making a decision.

    Yes it's certainly that they haven't had the chance to experience their life yet, life outside the womb, so if they never see the outside of the womb before they're killed is it really ending a human life?

    Do you think a 16 week limit would be more fair? 16 weeks is roughly when the brain starts to develop to the stage where it can start to process what's happening, before that the brain is no more capable than another animal, animals which are "put down" all the time.

    In no way do I promote abortions as being the best option all the time, I'm with you that only in extreme cases are they morally justified, but my main argument is that I don't think it should be against the law to be an immoral or selfish person, as much as people might loathe the woman for her decision, is that what laws are really meant to be for?

  14. #14
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Yes I would support the refining of the law so that abortions can only be performed in the embryonic stage, so roughly 16 weeks. That gives a woman enough time to realise she's pregnant and consider all the options before making a decision.

    Yes it's certainly that they haven't had the chance to experience their life yet, life outside the womb, so if they never see the outside of the womb before they're killed is it really ending a human life?

    Do you think a 16 week limit would be more fair? 16 weeks is roughly when the brain starts to develop to the stage where it can start to process what's happening, before that the brain is no more capable than another animal, animals which are "put down" all the time.

    In no way do I promote abortions as being the best option all the time, I'm with you that only in extreme cases are they morally justified, but my main argument is that I don't think it should be against the law to be an immoral or selfish person, as much as people might loathe the woman for her decision, is that what laws are really meant to be for?
    I think the law is here to protect human life, which leaves us with one of the most widely asked questions in which nobody can agree on, when does human life begin? I personally believe it begins at conception and so the child should be protected by law. So I guess I respectfully disagree with you in part on it being against the law, to me it isnt about the mother so much as it is the child. The mother can walk in and have an abortion and walk out the same day and go about her life. The childs life however has been taken as a matter of conveniance.
    what do we hear all the time? I just wasnt ready yet to be a parent.

    I agree with you that sometimes things go horribly wrong and there seems to be no alternative, but sadly that isnt usually the case.

  15. #15
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    I have 4 points to post on this subject:

    1) Banning abortions in South Dakota, or anywhere else in this country, IS NOT going to STOP ABORTION. Those who think it will need to pull their heads out of their self righteous asses and accept this reality: It will be a huge step back in time up to the 60s and before, when women went to back alley butchers to have done what medical doctors could not lawfully do. Babies AND women will die.

    If you haven't seen "If These Walls Could Talk" - I suggest you rent it. It's a factual, explicitely detailed documentary of pre-Roe v Wade that was produced by Cher for HBO several years ago.

    2) People need to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS. If a woman chooses to have an abortion, it's a personal issue, where the decision should involve only her, her doctor and God - not the U.S. government or anyone else. If the decision to abort a fetus is a sin, she is the only one who will have to answer to God for that - no one else. For those who are against abortion? - no problem - DON'T HAVE ONE. But they need to keep their nose out of other peoples' business and spend that time taking care of THEIR OWN.

    3) If a man is anti-abortion, then he should ask what a woman would do if she gets pregnant by him BEFORE he has sex with her, and not give into his sexual urges until he gets a straight answer - it is HIS responsibilty to protect his unborn offspring BEFORE it is conceived if it's that important to him. If he doesn't this? - too bad - it is her decision.

    4) Not everyone should be a parent and not enough will choose adoption. Banning abortion, and forcing the birth of unwanted children would undoubtedly add to an already alarming number of child neglect, child abuse, and baby murder cases in this country. The unwanted ones who won't be lucky enough to be put up for adoption will be at the mercy of an unfit parent who is angry and resentful that they are stuck with this kid. Child protection agencies will be of little help - they suck - they can't handle what is going on NOW. We all hear about cases everyday where a child has been neglected, abused or even killed by his/her parent. People need to look at the lives of those children - the way they suffered at the hands of the ones who were supposed to love and care for them - and then ask themselves if this child would have been BETTER OFF if he/she HAD NEVER BEEN BORN. Giving these kids the right to be born has little meaning if their LIFE IS HELL ON EARTH..........

  16. #16
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    Re: Ban on Abortion South Dakota

    Quote Originally Posted by Connecticut Victim
    I have 4 points to post on this subject:

    1) Banning abortions in South Dakota, or anywhere else in this country, IS NOT going to STOP ABORTION. Those who think it will need to pull their heads out of their self righteous asses and accept this reality: It will be a huge step back in time up to the 60s and before, when women went to back alley butchers to have done what medical doctors could not lawfully do. Babies AND women will die.

    If you haven't seen "If These Walls Could Talk" - I suggest you rent it. It's a factual, explicitely detailed documentary of pre-Roe v Wade that was produced by Cher for HBO several years ago.

    2) People need to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS. If a woman chooses to have an abortion, it's a personal issue, where the decision should involve only her, her doctor and God - not the U.S. government or anyone else. If the decision to abort a fetus is a sin, she is the only one who will have to answer to God for that - no one else. For those who are against abortion? - no problem - DON'T HAVE ONE. But they need to keep their nose out of other peoples' business and spend that time taking care of THEIR OWN.

    3) If a man is anti-abortion, then he should ask what a woman would do if she gets pregnant by him BEFORE he has sex with her, and not give into his sexual urges until he gets a straight answer - it is HIS responsibilty to protect his unborn offspring BEFORE it is conceived if it's that important to him. If he doesn't this? - too bad - it is her decision.

    4) Not everyone should be a parent and not enough will choose adoption. Banning abortion, and forcing the birth of unwanted children would undoubtedly add to an already alarming number of child neglect, child abuse, and baby murder cases in this country. The unwanted ones who won't be lucky enough to be put up for adoption will be at the mercy of an unfit parent who is angry and resentful that they are stuck with this kid. Child protection agencies will be of little help - they suck - they can't handle what is going on NOW. We all hear about cases everyday where a child has been neglected, abused or even killed by his/her parent. People need to look at the lives of those children - the way they suffered at the hands of the ones who were supposed to love and care for them - and then ask themselves if this child would have been BETTER OFF if he/she HAD NEVER BEEN BORN. Giving these kids the right to be born has little meaning if their LIFE IS HELL ON EARTH..........
    If the Baby could speak for itself, Im sure he or she would. dissagree.
    I feel a childs life is important enough for me to speak up for and I dont care who the mother and father are.

    Its easy for somoene to say that its the womans right, when the child doesnt speak for itself. People that say that are cowards to me. Speaking out against a speechless child without any defences. Talk about being a bully.

    Not only that smart_ss, You say that people that are unfit to be parents should have abortions, how about the couples that would be good parents that are incapable of having children. They would jump at the chance. Have you tried adopting a newborn lately, there is a real shortage. Maybe if it wasnt so easy for a woman to walk in and have her baby put to DEATH she would begin looking for other options.
    Its something else listening to you, all the talking you do about the womans rights, but never mentioning the babies rights.

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