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  1. #1
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    Is there a path to wisdom?

    Is there a path to wisdom?

    How can I know what I do not know? How can I trace that boundary between knowledge and ignorance?

    In the dialogue “Apology” Plato writes about Socrates while in the dungeon just before drinking the hemlock that the citizens of Athens condemned him to be executed.

    In the dungeon shortly before drinking from the hemlock cup Socrates spoke to his followers. He spoke about the accusations against him at the trial. He said that the sworn indictment against him was “Socrates is guilty of needless curiosity and meddling interference, inquiring into things beneath Earth and in the Sky…”

    Socrates further adds that he is accused of teaching the people of Athens, to which Socrates vehemently denies that he is a teacher. He points out that in matters of wisdom he has only a small piece of that territory; the wisdom that he does have is the wisdom not to think he knows what he does not know. Socrates conjectures that he has the wisdom to recognize the boundary of his present knowledge and to search for that knowledge that he does not have. “So it seems at any rate I am wiser in this one small respect: I do not think I know what I do not.”

    For Socrates a necessary component of wisdom is to comprehend what one is ignorant of.

    Am I wise? Do I know what I am ignorant of? I certainly know that I am ignorant of astronomy and music. There are many things about which it is obvious to me that I am ignorant of. Are there things about which I am not even aware of my ignorance? Are there matters about which I think I am knowledgeable of but which I am, in fact, ignorant of?

    When I ask myself these questions I become conscious of a great number of things about which I am ignorant. Does this mean I am like Socrates in this matter? I do not think so. Socrates is speaking about two types of ignorance about which most people are unconscious of.

    I think that Socrates is speaking of our ‘burden of illusion’. People are unconscious of the superficiality of much that they think they know and they are unconscious of a vast domain of knowledge that is hidden from the non critical thinker.


    The uncritical mind has no means for discovering these illusions. CT (Critical Thinking) is the keystone for discovering these illusions. The Catch-22 here is how can one develop a critical mind when they are deluded into thinking they have a critical mind?

    When our educational system has not taught our citizens how to think critically how can our citizens ever pull themselves out of this deep hole of illusion?


    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble; it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so”—Mark Twain

    coberstakaDutchuncle

  2. #2
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Yes we can but its a long winding road and can take years of hard knocks, good times, bad times, in between times then we die and leave our wisdom hopefully behind.
    I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck. ~Emma Goldman

  3. #3
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    Is there a path to wisdom?

    How can I know what I do not know? How can I trace that boundary between knowledge and ignorance?

    In the dialogue “Apology” Plato writes about Socrates while in the dungeon just before drinking the hemlock that the citizens of Athens condemned him to be executed.

    In the dungeon shortly before drinking from the hemlock cup Socrates spoke to his followers. He spoke about the accusations against him at the trial. He said that the sworn indictment against him was “Socrates is guilty of needless curiosity and meddling interference, inquiring into things beneath Earth and in the Sky…”

    Socrates further adds that he is accused of teaching the people of Athens, to which Socrates vehemently denies that he is a teacher. He points out that in matters of wisdom he has only a small piece of that territory; the wisdom that he does have is the wisdom not to think he knows what he does not know. Socrates conjectures that he has the wisdom to recognize the boundary of his present knowledge and to search for that knowledge that he does not have. “So it seems at any rate I am wiser in this one small respect: I do not think I know what I do not.”

    For Socrates a necessary component of wisdom is to comprehend what one is ignorant of.

    Am I wise? Do I know what I am ignorant of? I certainly know that I am ignorant of astronomy and music. There are many things about which it is obvious to me that I am ignorant of. Are there things about which I am not even aware of my ignorance? Are there matters about which I think I am knowledgeable of but which I am, in fact, ignorant of?

    When I ask myself these questions I become conscious of a great number of things about which I am ignorant. Does this mean I am like Socrates in this matter? I do not think so. Socrates is speaking about two types of ignorance about which most people are unconscious of.

    I think that Socrates is speaking of our ‘burden of illusion’. People are unconscious of the superficiality of much that they think they know and they are unconscious of a vast domain of knowledge that is hidden from the non critical thinker.


    The uncritical mind has no means for discovering these illusions. CT (Critical Thinking) is the keystone for discovering these illusions. The Catch-22 here is how can one develop a critical mind when they are deluded into thinking they have a critical mind?

    When our educational system has not taught our citizens how to think critically how can our citizens ever pull themselves out of this deep hole of illusion?


    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble; it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so”—Mark Twain

    coberstakaDutchuncle
    god bless mark twain!? he was a deep thinker and philosopher of merit for the common man!? he even made it into a star trek episode!! such is the way of real wisdom and it's expression across fields of endeavor for truth's cause without burdensome explanation and experienced hesitation!? the speed of trust in fellow man realized as a way beyond the WORDS!? who can leave the roost of the past and escape the roost of the present into free flight forever on the wing and a prayer of eternal promise without hope but hope itself promised by itself realized by no choice but to believe or not!? YUP!! seems wher it's al headed by PROXY if ya ask ME!? but of course, you didnt ask me, i just farted in your FACE!? .....so back to the future we go!? :freak3::judges::
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  4. #4
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    also known as the yellow brick road
    I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck. ~Emma Goldman

  5. #5
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Wisdom is infinite,and gathered by identifying with a source of power greater then our finite mind. Wisdom is the sister to knowledge,and brother to understanding. To have all three members of that family operating on one accord we must envelope the father, and embrace the mother of the infinite three.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    In the summer of 48 my older brother told me that if I wanted to play high school football I had to ‘get ready’. In his terms, ‘getting ready’ meant running to get in condition for the rigors of football practice.

    In the spring of 09 I want to begin the quest for wisdom. How do I ‘get ready’ for becoming wise?

    Starting with the definition of wisdom as “seeing life whole” seems to be as good a place to begin as I can think of. How do I get ready to see life whole?

    It seems to me that to see life whole I must learn a great deal more than I already have learned but I must start with where I presently am. I am convinced that learning new stuff requires three aspects (a position facing a particular direction) of mind; mentally I must have curiosity, caring, and an orderly mind.

    I claim that curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for understanding. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing. I will not examine a matter for the purpose of understanding it unless I am curious about it. I must care enough about the matter to do the intellectual work necessary to understand.

    Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.

    Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.

    Questions for consideration:
    Is caring necessary for understanding? I think so.
    What is ‘understanding’?
    Is curiosity necessary for knowing? I think so.
    Is curiosity necessary for understanding? I think so.
    Is a knowledge of history required to ‘see life whole’? Absolutely!!
    Is difficulty our duty? I think so.


  7. #7
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyE1234 View Post
    Wisdom is infinite,and gathered by identifying with a source of power greater then our finite mind. Wisdom is the sister to knowledge,and brother to understanding. To have all three members of that family operating on one accord we must envelope the father, and embrace the mother of the infinite three.
    WOW!! you musta got that off um a different cracker jacks box than the 1 i got!? :rryumy: :spin2: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  8. #8
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Mr. Lexx, I don't know if I should lol, or :1crysad: as it relates to your response. In the interim thank you for your infinite wisdom.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    "Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application."



    :freak3: :spin2: :1crysad:
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  10. #10
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    Is there a path to wisdom?

    How can I know what I do not know? How can I trace that boundary between knowledge and ignorance?

    In the dialogue “Apology” Plato writes about Socrates while in the dungeon just before drinking the hemlock that the citizens of Athens condemned him to be executed.

    In the dungeon shortly before drinking from the hemlock cup Socrates spoke to his followers. He spoke about the accusations against him at the trial. He said that the sworn indictment against him was “Socrates is guilty of needless curiosity and meddling interference, inquiring into things beneath Earth and in the Sky…”

    Socrates further adds that he is accused of teaching the people of Athens, to which Socrates vehemently denies that he is a teacher. He points out that in matters of wisdom he has only a small piece of that territory; the wisdom that he does have is the wisdom not to think he knows what he does not know. Socrates conjectures that he has the wisdom to recognize the boundary of his present knowledge and to search for that knowledge that he does not have. “So it seems at any rate I am wiser in this one small respect: I do not think I know what I do not.”

    For Socrates a necessary component of wisdom is to comprehend what one is ignorant of.

    Am I wise? Do I know what I am ignorant of? I certainly know that I am ignorant of astronomy and music. There are many things about which it is obvious to me that I am ignorant of. Are there things about which I am not even aware of my ignorance? Are there matters about which I think I am knowledgeable of but which I am, in fact, ignorant of?

    When I ask myself these questions I become conscious of a great number of things about which I am ignorant. Does this mean I am like Socrates in this matter? I do not think so. Socrates is speaking about two types of ignorance about which most people are unconscious of.

    I think that Socrates is speaking of our ‘burden of illusion’. People are unconscious of the superficiality of much that they think they know and they are unconscious of a vast domain of knowledge that is hidden from the non critical thinker.


    The uncritical mind has no means for discovering these illusions. CT (Critical Thinking) is the keystone for discovering these illusions. The Catch-22 here is how can one develop a critical mind when they are deluded into thinking they have a critical mind?

    When our educational system has not taught our citizens how to think critically how can our citizens ever pull themselves out of this deep hole of illusion?


    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble; it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so”—Mark Twain

    coberstakaDutchuncle
    Yes, but there's rarely any shortcuts.

    IMO, a timeless quote or two are in order...

    Believe nothing, O monks, merely because you have been told it ...or because it is traditional, or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings- that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.

    ~ Budda

    Power is being aware of what one is choosing to do, feeling free to do it, and doing it intentionally. Power is freedom to choose with awareness and to involve ourselves in health-promoting and other activities. Power is how we participate in creating our reality.

    ~ Dr. Gerald Epstein
    My 2 cents...
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  11. #11
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Yes, but there's rarely any shortcuts.

    IMO, a timeless quote or two are in order...



    My 2 cents...
    you COULD speculate due to the complexity and SEEMING IMPOSSIBILITIES of LIFE that if there IS a god he was PROMPTED(feedback) to CREATE a SHORTCUT as a WAY out of the delimna of consideration/circumstances of same!? SURELY in everyday LIFE we can EXPERIENCE this CHOICE if we are ABLE/willing to SEE it!?or to put it ANOTHER WAY!? is it posible to REALIZE command without COMMANDING anything!? :freak3: :spin2: :
    Last edited by lexx; 05-29-2009 at 08:28 PM.
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  12. #12
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    we are all born wise and then spend our lives collecting bias and stupidity and loyalties..IMO
    being wise isnt about learning...otherwise access to the net would be the only prerequisite...its not about adding and subtracting and maths or reading either...its about deduction and comprehension...
    something not taught or practiced enough.
    Just my thoughts though.

  13. #13
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    Re: Is there a path to wisdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by reentry View Post
    we are all born wise and then spend our lives collecting bias and stupidity and loyalties..IMO
    being wise isnt about learning...otherwise access to the net would be the only prerequisite...its not about adding and subtracting and maths or reading either...its about deduction and comprehension...
    something not taught or practiced enough.
    Just my thoughts though.
    deduction without reduction is no guarantee of RIGHT comprehension!? for complexity is the BANE of understanding!? and yet once the SIMPLE is understood, all complexity is fodder for the mill of neverending speculation of purposes and reasons and justifications of DETERMINATIONS in JEST!? but without the "knowledge"(SENSE) and understanding of the simple TRUTH behind all things, the jester is DEAD,..SERIOUS!? just my thoughts PROMPTED by your thoughts!? which i might add if all men were to access their thought process in unison and by comparison/consideration voluntary or not, would it lead to the "trinity" moment at ground ZERO where all matter(s) of MIND are spontaneously by unrestricted "reaction" converted to pure ENERGY!? .....a new EXISTENCE!? :freak3: :spin2: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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