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    "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    "Ye Must Be Born Again."
    I heard an old minister once preach a sermon entitled "Ye Must Be Born Again." I remember that he said, "Why am I preaching on 'Ye must be born again?' Because Jesus Christ said 'Ye must be born again.'" John 3:7. So how do we get born again? I know a lot of churches don't use the term "born again" and that doesn't necessarily mean that many of them are born again. I think that it means believing the gospel message. Jesus Christ said, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15,16.
    So what is the gospel? That Jesus Christ, who was God, the Son of God, voluntarily came down to earth, was born of the virgin Mary in Bethlehem in Judea. That He was the Christ or Messiah of Bible prophecies. That according to those prophecies that He died on a cross so that we can be saved and healed. But then He rose again two days later. That hundreds of people witnessed Him alive and well as is recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament of the Bible. Then He ascended up into heaven to sit at the right hand of God the Father. He's still alive today, and He's able to hear our faintest cry for help. The Bible said "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:10.
    So I can just whisper that name "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, save me, heal me, help me" and He will hear and answer. But you might say, "I don't know if He will help me. I'm an Arab. I'm poor. I'm handicapped. I've done a lot of horrible things in my life." The Bible said "whosoever." An old song I used to sing said "Whosoever meaneth me." I'm whosoever. You're whosoever. You don't have to be Roman Catholic, but Christianity is a catholic, or universal, religion. The Bible says "God is love" and He loves us all equally or impartially. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." So do you believe? You can even pray as one fellow in the Bible did "Lord, I believe. Help thou mine unbelief." So please invite Jesus into your heart today. Say or whisper this prayer, "Lord Jesus, I call on Your name right now. Save me. Heal me. Make me born again. Come into my heart. Change me to be like You. Cleanse me. Wash away my sins. Help me to live for You the rest of my life. Amen."

  2. #2
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    While I understand your intentions and your sincerity, the truth of Jesus' statements should be examined from a biblical perspective.

    First of all, Jesus didn't teach that it didn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe. In fact, when his disciples asked him what the "end time" would be like in Matthew 24, he warned them that there would be many religions "preaching Christ".

    He didn't say to believe any of them. In fact, he warned his disciples to "Take heed that no man deceive you(verse 4)".

    In fact, Jesus warned that "if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not(verse 23)".

    What did Jesus mean, "born again"?

    If you look at the Greek translation, you find that it was not "born again", but born "from above". The Greek translation has a word, "annagennao", meaning literally "again born", but in Jesus' statement to Nicodemus in John 3, the word is "anothen", which means "from above".

    So unless a man is "born from above", he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Jesus told Nicodemus in verse 6 that there is a birth of the flesh and a birth of the spirit. The flesh is easy to figure out, but what is the spirit?

    Paul writes of two births in Romans 9:8: "That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

    What promise? Next verse: "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son". This promise was made to Abraham regarding Isaac, fulfilled in Genesis 21:1-2.

    Paul was saying that there are two births, one of flesh and one of promise. The birth of flesh was of the physical nation of Israel, but the birth of promise was all those born under the same promise as that made regarding Isaac.

    Paul points out in Romans 9:16 that it is impossible to choose to be born of this promise. Either you are actually born of that promise, or you are not.

    Further, if you look back at Romans 8:29-30, you will see that these particular children, born of that promise, are foreknown, predestined, called, and glorified.

    Isaac fulfilled these qualities by his birth. He was foreknown, as his name was selected before his birth. He was predestined, as his birth was guaranteed based on Abraham's faith, and he was called and glorified in the great work which God had planned from the very beginning(Ephesians 1:4).

    So, Jesus was actually telling Nicodemus that unless a person is actually born of that promise, under the same conditions as Isaac, that person could not see the kingdom of God.

    That is, God was actually selecting individuals throughout history to serve His purpose and guarantee that a greater good was accomplished outside the confused efforts of human religions, because God is not the author of confusion.

    For further evidence, notice Galatians 3:29: "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise".

    Galatians 4:28: "Now we brethren, as Isaac was, are children of the promise".

    Paul considered himself one of these called from birth in Galatians 1:15: "But when it pleased god, who separated me from my mother's womb...."

    If you follow any man, you are being deceived, because God has already figured things out for the advantage of all. In fact, you are completely free from all religious ideas concerning God, because humans are incapable of organizing in truth.

    Humans cannot organize in God's name because Romans 8:7 tells us that the natural mind is enmity against God and cannot be subject to God's laws.

    This means:
    1.No one can claim authority as God's representative, since no natural mind can be subject God
    2. Any attempt to do so will result in an infinity of differing ideas and concepts of God

    If God is omniscient, we cannot be free from Him, but we can be completely free from the authority systems of human beings. We do not have to follow any man, as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 7:23, and as 2 Peter 2:19 says, whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.

    If we are to "go ye therefore into all the world", there is only one true gospel that can be taught, that we are the servants of no man, that we are free, and that the sacrifice Jesus paid as the penalty of law on our behalf sets us all completely free if we choose that freedom.

    That is the ONLY correct religious choice we can make.
    Last edited by doojie; 04-14-2009 at 09:50 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    So I can just whisper that name "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, save me, heal me, help me" and He will hear and answer. But you might say, "I don't know if He will help me. I'm an Arab. I'm poor. I'm handicapped. I've done a lot of horrible things in my life." The Bible said "whosoever.
    WTF?...can the sky fairy fix my golf swing?
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  4. #4
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    i was thinking that to be born is to be 'carried'?borne by a carrier, a host if you will? so to be born again would mean to be carried by a new host? hopefully or wisely by the host of hosts, or lord of hosts if you will? DA BOSS! BAY-BEE!! reminds me of gangster films where the new guy comes in and they smuck him around till he says DA BOSS sent me! at which point they all grovel and beg to hear his word? :
    Last edited by lexx; 04-15-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    I don't know anything about a golf fairy, but Jesus gives you the power to swing the golf club. You should thank Jesus, if He gave you two arms so that you can swing a club.

  6. #6
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Really???...then should I thank him for the eye he took away when I was 6???....should I thank him for the ridicule I had to endure as a child??? You wanna start with that "Cross to bear..." crap.

    You God doesn't exist. As for my swing, as with all the accomplishments in my life, I'll do it myself.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Really???...then should I thank him for the eye he took away when I was 6???....should I thank him for the ridicule I had to endure as a child??? You wanna start with that "Cross to bear..." crap.

    You God doesn't exist. As for my swing, as with all the accomplishments in my life, I'll do it myself.



    Ever wonder why a god would have created wisdom teeth?
    For most people, they don't fit and must be pulled.

    Must have been hell for folks way back in the day before pulling was possible....and before pain killers...

    Its bad enough now....

  8. #8
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Really???...then should I thank him for the eye he took away when I was 6???....should I thank him for the ridicule I had to endure as a child??? You wanna start with that "Cross to bear..." crap.

    You God doesn't exist. As for my swing, as with all the accomplishments in my life, I'll do it myself.
    I do see a slight logical contradiction in your statement, first that God took away your eye when you were 6, and that "your God doesn't exist".

    Obviously a God that doesn't exist would not be able to take an eye from anyone, so there is no possibility of God taking your eye in that respect.

    However, the statement "your God doesn't exist", makes me wonder if there is a "my God" that does exist.

    The biblical teaching of Jesus dying for sins and freeing us from the penalty of law, is not about a "feel good" religion in which we just "accept Christ" get baptized, and then we are "born again" in some process that nobody can begin to explain except by some personal feeling that the believer has, but no one else does.

    Back when I was a teen-ager at a Baptist revival, the old time revivals in the summer, where lightning, more often than not, would brighten the sky like midday while the preacher was talking about hellfire and brimstone, I went to the front of the church, accepted the Lord, and got baptized. Mostly because I was scared shitless.

    But even after baptism and believing, I still didn;t 'get" what it was i was suposed to be getting. So I went the front of the church a few weeks later to see if that would "take". It didn't. So I got real irritated with the Lord and said "If I have to go up there every damn week and make a complete fool of myself, i want to see whatever it is that's supposed to be so plain to everyone".

    I did it until my parents were afraid to go to church for fear of embarrassment. Church members were beginning to think I was crazy, but i was damn determined to figure it out if I had to pester God for the next ten years.

    I never did get whatever it was I was supposed to get, so I finally quit, to my parents' relief. I think they were satisfied to let me go to hell just to keep from embarrassing them.

    Jesus' sacrifice was about law, here and now, the right of individuals to be considered innocent(presumption of innocence) with rights to protect that innocence from the law itself.

    Christianity, in cahoots with the state, has taken a dynamic principle for which jesus died, and made us subject to the very state powers that caused Jesus to die in order to set us free.

    I have no use for christianity because it is a perversion of a teaching that would have made us free from both church and state.

  9. #9
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    I do see a slight logical contradiction in your statement, first that God took away your eye when you were 6, and that "your God doesn't exist".
    .
    Yeah... that's so you can pick one side and maybe stick to it for a moment to read the other side.

    Does he exist and took an eye? or does he not exist and the loss of an eye was a mere fluke like the rest of life's creation?

    Does God exist as an evil entity or does he not exist? Maybe he exists and isn't all powerful and has no idea we exist, but there is no way that he exists, knows about us and is not evil.
    Last edited by Lord_jag; 04-16-2009 at 09:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  10. #10
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    I do see a slight logical contradiction in your statement, first that God took away your eye when you were 6, and that "your God doesn't exist".

    Obviously a God that doesn't exist would not be able to take an eye from anyone, so there is no possibility of God taking your eye in that respect.

    However, the statement "your God doesn't exist", makes me wonder if there is a "my God" that does exist.

    The biblical teaching of Jesus dying for sins and freeing us from the penalty of law, is not about a "feel good" religion in which we just "accept Christ" get baptized, and then we are "born again" in some process that nobody can begin to explain except by some personal feeling that the believer has, but no one else does.

    Back when I was a teen-ager at a Baptist revival, the old time revivals in the summer, where lightning, more often than not, would brighten the sky like midday while the preacher was talking about hellfire and brimstone, I went to the front of the church, accepted the Lord, and got baptized. Mostly because I was scared shitless.

    But even after baptism and believing, I still didn;t 'get" what it was i was suposed to be getting. So I went the front of the church a few weeks later to see if that would "take". It didn't. So I got real irritated with the Lord and said "If I have to go up there every damn week and make a complete fool of myself, i want to see whatever it is that's supposed to be so plain to everyone".

    I did it until my parents were afraid to go to church for fear of embarrassment. Church members were beginning to think I was crazy, but i was damn determined to figure it out if I had to pester God for the next ten years.

    I never did get whatever it was I was supposed to get, so I finally quit, to my parents' relief. I think they were satisfied to let me go to hell just to keep from embarrassing them.

    Jesus' sacrifice was about law, here and now, the right of individuals to be considered innocent(presumption of innocence) with rights to protect that innocence from the law itself.

    Christianity, in cahoots with the state, has taken a dynamic principle for which jesus died, and made us subject to the very state powers that caused Jesus to die in order to set us free.

    I have no use for christianity because it is a perversion of a teaching that would have made us free from both church and state.
    Obviously a God that doesn't exist would not be able to take an eye from anyone, so there is no possibility of God taking your eye in that respect.
    First, nice try.

    Second, there is no contradiction in my comment as I did not acknowledge the existence of a God, I merely just agreed for the sake of the argument.

    The rest of your post is moot after that point is made.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  11. #11
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    First, nice try.

    Second, there is no contradiction in my comment as I did not acknowledge the existence of a God, I merely just agreed for the sake of the argument.

    The rest of your post is moot after that point is made.
    From your statement, it would be hard to know whether you were just agreeing for the sake of argument, or whether you were just being sarcastic.

    But, even conceding that, the rest of mystatement is simply about a traching regarding Jesus as to what his life meant in fact, and my own experience in trying to understand christianity.

    As to it being moot, it is perfectly applicable in terms of law and courts, as it is recognized by the Supreme Court as being an analogue to our rights under law(Miranda vs Arizona, footnote 27).

  12. #12
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post

    Does God exist as an evil entity or does he not exist? Maybe he exists and isn't all powerful and has no idea we exist, but there is no way that he exists, knows about us and is not evil.
    the entrance to heaven is marked by this phrase? depart, i never knew you! you workers of iniquity! something like that, depends on translation! which says that the lord is not a worker of iniquity! or a host to same! now we just have to decide what iniquity means? could be as simple as, you did not provide for those what is due them according to the will of the lord? which could mean an arse kickin or a new blinged out hummer? WHAT DO I KNOW!! does this mean i'd be better off choosin the latter as my reward!? :
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  13. #13
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post
    Yeah... that's so you can pick one side and maybe stick to it for a moment to read the other side.

    Does he exist and took an eye? or does he not exist and the loss of an eye was a mere fluke like the rest of life's creation?

    Does God exist as an evil entity or does he not exist? Maybe he exists and isn't all powerful and has no idea we exist, but there is no way that he exists, knows about us and is not evil.
    Interesting point. I should quote Isaiah 45:7:

    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things".

    Or perhaps Amos 3:6:

    "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"

    I find this to be no great contradiction, except for Christians who must believe that God has no evil in him, yet creates a world where evil happens.

    Obviously, if God created a world in which evil exists, then God knows what evil is, and would have to be responsible for it. Even assuming that Satan actually serves as an adversary for God, God is still responsible for his creation.

    But humans themselves are not capable of defining good and evil in any absolute sense. Losing an eye would be seen as evil. Being killed in a wreck or war would be evil. But everybody dies or is killed at some time. We just don't like the timing in most cases.

    But if there is a God who created evil, that same God says he is able to create mercy and resurrection. Whether you believe that or not, it either will happen or it won't.

    If it happens, great. But whether it happens or not, we still die, we still get hurt, and we must deal with this reality as it comes.

    If God creates good and evil, and if he creates a human mind incapable of being subject to God, then he has loaded the dice against us, and that don't sound really kind.

    However, a world in which everything works out, where we experience no pain, no need to strive for truth or understanding, or protect ourselves from the deception of others, that kind of world wouldn't be very acceptable to anyone with a curious mind.

    Maybe there's a god and maybe not. The evidence says not. So, would you still live a moral life and try to do the right thing if there's not? Would you need the threat of a god to get you to seek truth and try to live in a moral manner?

    I don't, and I don't need organized religion or the state to threaten me in order to do what's right.

  14. #14
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    the law exists for a reason,but the law can also be used to manipulate for advantage/profit! which is why the good must be behind/enforce the laws! it is their bound purpose by default! to be a rescue to those entangled by the law! to see that injustice is not perpetrated by the law thru/by/for personal gain! whether it be an individual/company/gov! :freak3: :judges:
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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Interesting point. I should quote Isaiah.
    No, no, no. You really shouldn't. I really couldn't care to read the writings of some barely literate, crazy old men who heard voices 1500 years ago.

    Today they would be institutionalized and they should have been then too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

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    Re: "Ye Must Be Born Again."

    ......Removed pointless rantings......

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    I find this to be no great contradiction, except for Christians who must believe that God has no evil in him, yet creates a world where evil happens.

    Obviously, if God created a world in which evil exists, then God knows what evil is, and would have to be responsible for it. Even assuming that Satan actually serves as an adversary for God, God is still responsible for his creation.

    But humans themselves are not capable of defining good and evil in any absolute sense. Losing an eye would be seen as evil. Being killed in a wreck or war would be evil. But everybody dies or is killed at some time. We just don't like the timing in most cases.

    But if there is a God who created evil, that same God says he is able to create mercy and resurrection. Whether you believe that or not, it either will happen or it won't.

    If it happens, great. But whether it happens or not, we still die, we still get hurt, and we must deal with this reality as it comes.

    If God creates good and evil, and if he creates a human mind incapable of being subject to God, then he has loaded the dice against us, and that don't sound really kind.

    However, a world in which everything works out, where we experience no pain, no need to strive for truth or understanding, or protect ourselves from the deception of others, that kind of world wouldn't be very acceptable to anyone with a curious mind.

    Maybe there's a god and maybe not. The evidence says not. So, would you still live a moral life and try to do the right thing if there's not? Would you need the threat of a god to get you to seek truth and try to live in a moral manner?

    I don't, and I don't need organized religion or the state to threaten me in order to do what's right.
    But even death itself is a creation of God. People don't need to die at all! If your god created a world where there was an infinite amount of space then there would never be a need for death.

    Even among other species. If god had bothered to create a sun hot enough and included some photosynthesizing cells in our bodies we wouldn't have to destroy to survive.

    God created death, god created evil.

    Necessity is the mother of invention. If we needed nothing, then I'd agree with you we would have no need of all of our inventions. If this really was desirable, then why is it that many many countries have their number 1 industry as tourism. People want to be able to lie around and relax and enjoy life.

    Most people agree that most of the inventions that are supposed to make our lives easier are also our greatest sources of stress and anxiety.

    God didn't need to make a world of conflict where we have to fight to survive. God didn't need to make a world where we have to kill each other to survive, and then tell us we shouldn't.

    God is evil for creating conflict and evil for allowing bad things to happen unchecked. Evil for creating the circumstances for evil to happen and evil for allowing it to happen with no circumstances to anyone who witnesses it.
    Last edited by Lord_jag; 04-20-2009 at 07:01 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

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