+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 29

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern, California
    Posts
    16,985

    Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    I just got this from Bob Over at WorldWideScamNetwork;

    It's been a wild ride!

    For almost twelve years now, the WorldWide Scam Network has been the only free Internet consumer advocate service that was unsponsored and did not sell advertising. We simply felt it was important to expose some of the scams, pyramid schemes, MLM money games, worthless, fraudulent, and sometimes dangerous products, and the crooks, criminals and con artists who were behind them.

    We did serious research and performed thorough due diligence; we documented our claims and stood behind our reports. There were legal threats and lawsuits from Neways, SkyBiz.com, BigSmart.com, and others. Best of all was the $8.6 million dollar lawsuit filed by Adam Gilmer of Travelogia who even brought his lawsuit to our home town, where it was promptly thrown out of court and dismissed.

    Sadly, after twelve long years, it does not seem that much has changed. SkyBiz.com is gone, Travelogia failed, and BigSmart.com was shut down by the FTC, but Lifewave and Dr. David Schmidt can still be found peddling worthless patches at local "Curves" exercise salons and Eniva is still selling their fortified orange juice, even after breaking every rule of true science and honest marketing in the book. Jim Fobair, Chuck Hanson, Phil Piccolo, Wayne Garland, Bruce Bise and all the usual suspects continue to run their scams and sell their junk. Meanwhile our opt-in mailing list has lost 50% of its subscribers and there hasn't been a donation to help support the WWSN in years.

    Television and news media have little interest in publishing the truth about these MLM companies. Government regulators and law enforcement agencies don't take them seriously. And most respected network marketing "leaders" are unwilling to stand up to the scammers. MLM forums and message boards have some value in exposing these crimes in progress, but MLM true believers continue to blindly follow their chosen leaders and chase the money like lemmings headed for the sea, refusing to consider or intelligently discuss any differing opinion or point of view. The "Lifewave" thread at the "Museum of Hoaxes" web site has challenged and debated the topic of the phony Dr. David Schmidt and his worthless nanotechnology patches for more than four years and over 244 web pages.

    Many people challenged the WWSN to take on the "REAL" scams of the day, such as Social Security. We explained that it was not an area of interest for us, but we encouraged them to act upon their concerns and do what they could to expose those scams themselves. Perhaps we should have listened to their advice; maybe we would have seen the Wall Street, mortgage financing, and stock derivatives scams on the horizon.

    Unfortunately, we didn't and we are now in an upside-down ARM mortgage we can no longer afford, the lender refuses to renegotiate, and nobody will refinance the one we've got. Two months from now our home will be foreclosed on. We'll be fine and we have several options, but after being victimized by the biggest Ponzi scheme the world has ever seen, investing limited time, effort and money into trying to expose Phil Piccolo's latest battery-powered gizmo or MLM travel scheme seems rather pointless, especially when there is so little public or governmental interest or support for our work.

    The WWSN and its hundreds of pages of research, debate, parody and satire will remain on the Internet; we just have no plans or motivation to update it in the foreseeable future. We thank those of you who did support and contribute to the web site and we hope you enjoyed and benefited from it. We have learned a lot as well, and were fortunate to have met many terrific people, foremost among them being MLM attorney Jeffrey Babener, who encouraged us, invited us to speak at his semi-annual MLM seminars, and became a true friend and mentor.

    Carry on the fight, seek out the truth, always perform proper due diligence - and be careful out there!

    Bob
    The WorldWide Scam Network
    What Gives? Why the general lack of interest on the public's part?

    I think it's confusion, and a lack of solid guidelines in uncovering and shutting down blatant scams.

    What do you think?

    Just wonderin aloud...

    Kerry Hein
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,906

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    I'm not surprised when I see people on here like Erneston saying that a company is a scam because one of their independent distributors has made a youtube video she didnt like!

    Many of the ''scambusters'' I've seen continually confuse genuine MLM with scams, and really make themselves look stupid. If they concerned themselves more with the real scams, people might respect their views a bit more.

    Genuine MLM is becoming more and more mainstream and accepted, hence the lack interest in people trying to get everything with ''recruiting or sponsoring'' shut down.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,265

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Genuine MLM is becoming more and more mainstream and accepted
    what's your measure to make this statement? It's a pretty run-of-the-mill marketing claim, but what information is standing behind that claim?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern, California
    Posts
    16,985

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    I'm not surprised when I see people on here like Erneston saying that a company is a scam because one of their independent distributors has made a youtube video she didnt like!

    Many of the ''scambusters'' I've seen continually confuse genuine MLM with scams, and really make themselves look stupid. If they concerned themselves more with the real scams, people might respect their views a bit more.

    Genuine MLM is becoming more and more mainstream and accepted, hence the lack interest in people trying to get everything with ''recruiting or sponsoring'' shut down.
    The "scambusters", (especially some of the clueless ones around here, like Nomass for instance!) discredit themselves greatly by trying to make mountains out of molehills, trying to discredit well known, well established companies, while letting the blatant ones run around unfettered?!

    Tips for good ScamBusters here!

    Kerry
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,906

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by calvinandhobbes View Post
    what's your measure to make this statement? It's a pretty run-of-the-mill marketing claim, but what information is standing behind that claim?

    My own experience. And you can lump it or like it.... couldnt care less.
    It was only a few years ago that peoples stock answer when you mentioned MLM was ''is this pyramid selling?'' Now they dont, and they are happier to see it as a genuine business. People like you are moving from the majority to the minority.

    Do I have documented, double-blind, clinically-trialled, blah, blah, blah to 'prove'' this? Nah... tough shit!
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    480

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Genuine MLM is becoming more and more mainstream and accepted, hence the lack interest in people trying to get everything with ''recruiting or sponsoring'' shut down.
    Really?

    Yet when your at a function if some even hints they might be a Amway rep it as good as clears the room.

    Even amway know this is true so they tell people when recruiting not to even tell them its Amway or a MLM as it will make people run away.

    So tell me how that fits your statement???

    People are greedy and greedy people can be conned. I just see more people desperate so willing to turn a blind eye to the greed to chase the dream and a dream is all it will ever be.

    A few good sales man a ton of hot air and lots of wannabes.


    await kerrys attempt at an insult and normal answer avoidance techniques with interest. :cwm2:

    That said, my new why to deal with scam is to encourage people to join.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,265

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    People like you are moving from the majority to the minority.
    I have little doubt I won't be in the minority when it comes to MLM in my lifetime. Not until MLM products are actually price competitive, which to date, I have yet to seen one. A few seem to be at least inthe ball park, but I've seen dozens that were ridiculously overpriced though. And the ratio to genuine MLM to scams still isn't significant enough. Between the crazily priced products and the scams, it's still just too good a rule of thumb to say no across the board.

    I know you don't care. You'll never seem to care about people that actually want marketing material to be true instead of just propoganda. I know I'm crazy to want such a thing...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,906

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by calvinandhobbes View Post
    I have little doubt I won't be in the minority when it comes to MLM in my lifetime. Not until MLM products are actually price competitive, which to date, I have yet to seen one. A few seem to be at least inthe ball park, but I've seen dozens that were ridiculously overpriced though. And the ratio to genuine MLM to scams still isn't significant enough. Between the crazily priced products and the scams, it's still just too good a rule of thumb to say no across the board.

    I know you don't care. You'll never seem to care about people that actually want marketing material to be true instead of just propoganda. I know I'm crazy to want such a thing...
    No, you dont get it. I dont care what you think because there are plenty that dont agree with you. Plenty that are looking for an alternative income (notice I didnt hype it and say ''plenty looking to be millionaires''). Plenty who absolutely love many MLM products, and have used them for years, without any business attached to it.
    There are two groups of people out there: those that are interested in MLM and their products, and those that arent. You're plainly in the second group, so you are of no interest to my business. There are more than enough people in the first group.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern, California
    Posts
    16,985

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by wazzaa
    await kerrys attempt at an insult and normal answer avoidance techniques with interest.
    What are you talking about?

    I return insults, and refute baloney, spread by clueless Anti-MLM zealots.

    Does that effect you, wazzaa?

    Only if you sling arrows my way, and spread clueless baloney about MLM!

    Is there anything more you'd like to touch on?

    JHSF

    Kerry Hein
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    258

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    So are you guys saying that just because something is MLM it is legit? This disagreement will never end until the good MLMs get rid of the scammy ones. As proponents of the model it is almost your duty to rid the world of the scam MLMs.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,715

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruceinvt View Post
    As proponents of the model it is almost your duty to rid the world of the scam MLMs.


    lol


    Almost....but not quite..

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern, California
    Posts
    16,985

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruceinvt View Post
    So are you guys saying that just because something is MLM it is legit?
    Where'd you ever get that idea!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruceinvt View Post
    This disagreement will never end until the good MLMs get rid of the scammy ones.
    Is that when this debate will end!?

    When the good MLM's get rid of the bad ones!

    I didn't realize it was our job(the good MLM's, collectively) to "get rid of", the 'scammy', companies!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruceinvt View Post
    As proponents of the model it is almost your duty to rid the world of the scam MLMs.
    Well, I am a moderator here. Does that count towards my "duty", of ridding the world of scams?

    I'd like to think so.

    Thanks for posting!

    Kerry Hein
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,906

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    I agree. Why is it my job to get rid of the bad MLMs? Sure I dont agree with them, and would love to see the back of them, but its not my job to get rid of them.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,265

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    There are two groups of people out there: those that are interested in MLM and their products, and those that arent. You're plainly in the second group, so you are of no interest to my business. There are more than enough people in the first group.
    That's good for you, I was just disagreeing that I am "becoming the minority" as you said. You guys have a long way to go to that point. The numbers clearly show that. MLM may be growing, but it remains a zit on the economy's rear end instead of a vital organ. If for whatever reason (note: I am note saying this should or will happen) MLM were made illegal, the economy wouldn't even flinch. Throw a monkey wrench in the finance sector and, well, we are watching that happen.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,265

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    I didn't realize it was our job(the good MLM's, collectively) to "get rid of", the 'scammy', companies!?
    it's not your job, but it's in your best interest. The Madoff Pnzi scheme is a great example. There were wall street people looking at the company saying "there's no way they could be doing that well" and reported them. While some of them were direct competitors, others were in the industry. They know the Madoff's of the world make it harder for them to do business.

    If a large % of the MLMs out there are scams (what was Len's % Kerry, ~40%), then a big portion of the market will just say "no" on the premise of MLM alone, regardless of the product. You and Chris can say "so what, next" all day long but when the majority of people out there won't even consider your product, that makes your job much harder. I think the median MLM income would be higher than the few thousand a year it sits at (and that doesn't include the people that left).

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern, California
    Posts
    16,985

    Re: Tough times for ScamBusters too I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by calvinandhobbes View Post
    it's not your job, but it's in your best interest. The Madoff Pnzi scheme is a great example. There were wall street people looking at the company saying "there's no way they could be doing that well" and reported them. While some of them were direct competitors, others were in the industry. They know the Madoff's of the world make it harder for them to do business.

    If a large % of the MLMs out there are scams (what was Len's % Kerry, ~40%), then a big portion of the market will just say "no" on the premise of MLM alone, regardless of the product. You and Chris can say "so what, next" all day long but when the majority of people out there won't even consider your product, that makes your job much harder. I think the median MLM income would be higher than the few thousand a year it sits at (and that doesn't include the people that left).
    I agree with you post 100%.

    It's one of the reasons I show up here. To try and make a difference, and to show that ALL MLM's aren't blatant scams.

    There are good ones out there.

    Kerry
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

Similar Threads

  1. Russia Is Tough
    By Administrator in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 01-02-2015, 07:13 AM
  2. Tough year
    By Old Timer in forum General Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-30-2010, 06:05 PM
  3. Tough Guy obama
    By pwrone in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 11-04-2009, 06:55 PM
  4. Tough Times for Democrats?
    By pwrone in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-30-2009, 04:56 PM
  5. Would really like any scambusters input!?!?
    By mumsweep in forum Work at Home Scams
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-20-2006, 06:36 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •