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  1. #17
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    Mar 2006
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    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    BCP: This says it much better than I could:

    As a supplier for the Big 3 this man received a letter from the President of GM North America requesting support for the bail out program.

    "Dear Employees & Suppliers,"

    "Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......... As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support."

    "Troy Clarke, President General Motors North America"



    Response from: Gregory Knox, Pres. Knox Machinery Company Franklin, Ohio

    Gentlemen:

    In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clark, President of General Motors North America.

    Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"… Believe me folks, The dream is over!

    This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities… this dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever.

    Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.

    Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states: "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not."

    YES! You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management… how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass… so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time… for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics… for putting out too many parts on a shift… and for being too productive. (We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?)

    Do you folks really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: "over the last few years… we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors.." What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? What a joke! We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit.

    I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". "Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day… and the following very important thing would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up… that is how a free market system works… it does work… if we would only let it work…"

    But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us"… Save us my ass, Hell - we're nationalizing… and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening… But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams… yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it…

    Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?... How can that be??? Let's see… Fuel efficient… Listening to customers… Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul…

    Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously reduce costs. Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning… Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"… Efficient front and back offices… Non union environment… Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts.

    I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it. Radical concept, huh… Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults.

    I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied…"we really might not do it in a year…or in four…" Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office!!

    Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks … That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000… People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits… That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year… We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe…

    That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home… Let the market correct itself folks - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has…and doesn't live beyond its means…and gets back to basics…and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world…and probably turns back to God.

    Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news". I hope you take it to heart.

    Gregory J. Knox, President Knox Machinery, Inc.
    Live simply, Love generously, Care deeply, Speak kindly....
    Leave the rest to God

  2. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    27,212

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    eaglepoop thinks credit card companies stand for what makes america great!?they are PREDATORS!!just like the EAGLE!?do you know that benjamin franklin AND OTHERS were AGAINST the use of the eagle as our national symbol!?they thought the turkey best represented the bountiful possibilities of the new world!?can you spend your way to wealth!?is that the question!?in stead of JUST SAYING you cannot!?why not show how YOU CAN!?because as we all know,this is america,where ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!?it only requires 1 thing!?EVERYONES WILLING COOPERATION!?so co'mon bird breath!?let's see you take up my challenge!?instead of just sittin on your NEST EGG!?get that "gran torino" out of the garage and LIVE a little!?: :spin2::judges: : hehe!!....just askn..
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  3. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    2,081

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    It sounds like Classic Libertarianism. I listened to Ron Paul and what he said did sound strangely appealing even though I consider myself a Socialist. This is how things will probably work out: If Obama succeeds then "Socialite" economics will have been largely vindicated (It's not the same as a total Soviet command economy, remember that). If these policies fall flat on their face, however, then Libertarian fiscal conservatism will get its chance. And I mean REAL fiscal conservatism with a leader not afraid to touch 3rd rails. I will concede this much, this country hasn't had a real fiscal conservative for a long time. I'm going to avoid arguing whether or not Obama will actually succeed any further (not on this thread anyway), but what I wrote above is what I think would happen if he does or does not.

    It is possible to spend into properity though; it is possible for you to open up a factory with a gigantic creditcard charge, and then running an extrordinarily successful business. Wierder things have happened.

  4. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    882

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    BCP: I totally agree with you that we have not had a true Conservative in this country for a long time.

    What I am truly against is the Dems and Libs screaming about all the spending done under Bush and him not being fiscally responsible, but remaining totally quiet or strongly supporting the spending that Obama is doing that makes what Bush spent look like pocket change.

    If we cut out all aid to illegals, and deported them back to whichever country they came from, we would save more money than spent on the Iraq war and that is just in California alone. When I have the time, I will point out just what the illegals cost those living in California. It is mind blowing.
    Live simply, Love generously, Care deeply, Speak kindly....
    Leave the rest to God

  5. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    1,562

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Crab of PAIN!!! View Post
    It sounds like Classic Libertarianism. I listened to Ron Paul and what he said did sound strangely appealing even though I consider myself a Socialist. This is how things will probably work out: If Obama succeeds then "Socialite" economics will have been largely vindicated (It's not the same as a total Soviet command economy, remember that). If these policies fall flat on their face, however, then Libertarian fiscal conservatism will get its chance. And I mean REAL fiscal conservatism with a leader not afraid to touch 3rd rails. I will concede this much, this country hasn't had a real fiscal conservative for a long time. I'm going to avoid arguing whether or not Obama will actually succeed any further (not on this thread anyway), but what I wrote above is what I think would happen if he does or does not.

    It is possible to spend into properity though; it is possible for you to open up a factory with a gigantic creditcard charge, and then running an extrordinarily successful business. Wierder things have happened.
    I wish it were that easy. If Obama is really successful in nationalizing the banks, health care and all of the other socialist agenda he has in mind America will never be the same. It seems there are many who don't like America the way it is so that will be good news to those who feel that way. If it fails, and I for one am pretty sure it will, this country will have a very hard time recovering from it. It's just not very easy to unsocialize a country. I can't think of one example of a country that was socialist and was able to convert to the market system without bloodshed and severe economic disaster. That's why you are going to see a bitter fight to stop this effort. The Russian's always said they would never have to fire a shot to win us over to socialism and it looks like they were right after all.

  6. #22
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    Sep 2004
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    27,212

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    there's an old saying that goes......if you resist something you make it stronger!?so you replace it it by out performing it instead!?so the job of the opposition is NOT to get elected by the same means as their opponents,but to make the opponents means no longer effective by proving their values a s superior in design and implementation thru actual peaceful and quiet affirming actions!?actions that instill and affirm what they are claiming!?and never to use the ranting and complaining tactics that people are so overburdened with already!?forgive me my sins by showing me the/a better way instead of commanding/demanding my performance to your standards!?OK...enough of that.....now back to reality!?: :spin2::judges: : heeh!!.....just askn..
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  7. #23
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    Jul 2006
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    7,767

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    socialism isn't going to succeed. the rich will finance conservative candidates for congress in the next election. the money the rich didn't already lose in stock market will be hidden to avoid the rise in capital gains taxes. with high rates, tax revenue will stay the same or decrease while increase in spending drives the debt up to the point that all revenues go to pay just the interest on debt.

    you can do this at your house too. run your credit cards up till all the money you make just pays the minimum payments on your debt. yes, you can. but probably not for long.
    Last edited by mumbles; 02-28-2009 at 10:55 PM.

  8. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    656

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
    the money the rich didn't already lose in stock market will be hidden to avoid the rise in capital gains taxes.
    HUH? You say the wierdest things!

    Are you for real?

    Um, doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, if you lose money you don't pay capital gains tax.......

    You're funny! lol

  9. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    7,767

    Re: Obama's First Address to Congress

    the capital gains taxes are rising from 15% to 20% for future earnings. this discourages investment in an already depressed market. yes, people would rather hide their money in a fake limited partnership than expose it to either loss or high taxation.

    there was a 10% tax on luxuries that had to be repealed because it destroyed the yacht builders.

    http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/old/11583345.htm
    Last edited by mumbles; 03-01-2009 at 12:18 PM.

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