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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    21

    Brad Daly and CMS

    I am posting this as the beginning of a new thread as the other one on this board has gotten quite long. I believe it is important for people doing searches to be able to get right to the meat rather than wading through what turned into a pom-pom and shilling session on the other thread of over 700 posts with nowhere near enough cold water thrown on it to wake people up (though some have tried). The other thread on this forum can be found here:
    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=720063&posted=1#post720063
    CMS is just another program in a long string of programs touted as a means to eliminate your debt through some loophole or process. The people who operate and promote this and, other programs, are preying on consumers who are stressed out and at the end of their financial rope. The successful mark is not thinking clearly and is often willing to cling to hope that is expertly delivered by sales reps. Think for a moment where you were at mentally when you filled out some form on the net for a consult and got a call introducing you to CMS. Frazzled is where. You would have to be to lend any credibility to some stranger calling you with a sympathetic sounding but slick pitch that when boiled down to its basic essence is as simple as “send me money and you will never have to pay your debt again”. To be certain there would have to be some emotionally appealing filler thrown in. I am sure some current event “banks are the bad guys, just watch the news” dialogue too. These are experienced people who will hit every nerve possible. They are nice sounding and patient for you to make a decision. They have to be. If they go for the money on the first call with a program like this you would have totally backed away. What they know is that times are tough for you and the prospect of not having to pay your debt back will start to sink in. In short order, for many of you, that carrot, the thought of not having to struggle anymore, for a mere few thousand dollars, paid to the order of slick sales person and Brad Daly, will begin to cloud your judgment. Critical thinking having been eliminated you will begin to convince yourself this will work. That’s all they have to do. Let you stew on the concept, loose off a little reality and you sell yourself. It’s successful enough to keep um at it from program to program.
    From what I have been able to glean, CMS has only had recognizable interaction with consumers for something like the last 18 months. Claims of having been at this for 5+ years are a bit dubious in that there is nothing available to substantiate this. It is perhaps likely that Brad has had experience working with consumers on debt related issues that long or, maybe one could speculate that he has done his novation/assignment/torturous interference longer than 18 months. Whatever the case, Brad Daly and his CMS process existed in near obscurity until recently and only found momentum, I would posit, when a ready body of sales reps came on the scene to promote it. There has been some intense regulatory and civil action in the debt relief area in the last couple years and as is the norm, these sales people will float from one elimination scam to the next after the one they promote predictably falls apart or the cops put and end to it. It is likely Brad found traction this way.
    Novation is nothing new to the world of debt elimination techniques. It was first offered to the public as one of the many methods of “send me money and never pay your debt again” by John Gliha in the late nineties. John even gave up on it. There is good case law on the process in California (perhaps as a result of John’s efforts) and elsewhere I am sure. Brad has gotten creative and thrown an assignment of debt into the mix along with terms that are sure to be breached and is hanging your future on his contract theory. It is an intriguing twist, I will admit. Many theories can be intriguing. Legal theories can be compelling. Bring this theory to an attorney with a dabbling of contract experience and they will likely speak to this intrigue. Take this intrigue to any level of critical thought and it will fall flat. Take the whole process in its entirety and it will be seen for what it is, Fraud.
    I understand there is an attorney working for Brad on this. This is one attorney and, he is being paid by Brad which establishes bias. He has to pay the bills and put food on the table and Brad is helping him do that. Nonetheless this fact is bandied about to lend credibility to this scam, er, process. If you truly wish to establish whether this program is the fantasy it truly is, bring it to an attorney with a successful consumer practice for review. Why a consumer attorney? They are not bank or collection industry sympathizers and look for opportunities to go toe to toe with them. In most cases they have already needled through these unsecured contracts the creditors use and many can recite them by rote. There should prove a ready pool of them willing to debunk the latest elimination/monetary protestation scam as they also are called upon to clean up the mess the consumers find themselves in when the scammers are gone.
    There have been other attorneys that function in debt elimination and have been shown to have been very wrong in their theorem and approaches. If you are seriously doing research pull up a search on Hess Kennedy, Consumer Law Center, Campos Chartered et al. Here is a recent example of a firm placed in receivership, an attorney disbarred and action taken by several states AG as well as civil action by banks. Here, things went very wrong but not before it ran its course for a couple years and affected over 6000 consumers nationwide. A very unique aspect of this case is that there are aggressive claw-back measures being pursued by those in a position to do so where the promoters are being pressed to return the monies and commissions they were paid (in some cases, to the tune of millions). Look for more of these claw-back measures and the establishment of complicity in the future.
    How about Robert Lock and CCDN (Credit Collection Defense Network)? If memory serves Lock associated with the afore mentioned John Gliha who published “Winning the collection Game” in the mid nineties and later moved onto novation and I think a brief stint with arbitration claims that went badly. Lock and his promoters are all across the net for your reading pleasure. He and some of the people and businesses connected to him are merrily entrenched in the defense of a class action suit brought in Illinois. If they don’t settle the case it will likely prove to go badly for them. I am sure though, they were confident of their position on things just like Laura Hess above. They are after all attorneys, with all of the credibility that brought to the victims who decided to join the programs.
    The point here is that an attorney does not necessarily lend credibility in the absolute. Perhaps Brad’s attorney is willing to risk his bar card with this theory. He may indeed. Someone may feel the need to respond to this and throw attorney credentials or write ups in defense of this scam but save it. Promoters of Lock have been doing that for years.
    I do not think it a good use of time to bring out lack of complaints to the BBB and all that bunk. It’s a diversion to make existing and future marks feel good about their decision. Just like the current banking turmoil is used as a diversion. Or, fractional reserve banking, GAAP, banks cannot lend their own money etc… which have been used in years past and still today. This is all just a diversion used to lull you into the carrot trance I spoke of earlier, until enough time passes for the prospect of never paying your debt again, sinks in. SNAP OUT OF IT! WAKE UP!
    The scam promoter will try to meet all of your objections with many assurances. One of those objections raised by a mark is how this affects their credit. The scam has to address this. Most people have spent their entire adult life conditioned to fret about it as it affects so many aspects of their lives. The answer is credit repair. Now we’re talking. This will all start to sink in quite nicely. Send money to Brad and the promoter and never pay my debt again and they are promising that my credit will be cleaned to boot and in a mere year or so. I will be back on my feet in no time and getting credit again. If you cannot see where this is going, you are not thinking clearly.
    Brad is figuring parts of this out as he goes. This is evidenced by the fact that he was doing credit repair and suddenly he is not. Any self respecting debt guru knows how aggressive regulators are about going after credit repair companies. Not Brad. Suddenly though, he is now outsourcing all of his customers to Alexin for credit repair because he just figured out that he is violating the Credit Repair Organization Act. Posters on this site have suggested that Brad is paying Alexin to perform the credit repair that he promises you. Is this arms length away from him in enough a manner that he is protected from violation of the Act? Using a strict interpretation of it, not likely. Is Alexin, his choice to source you off to, performing their part in strict adherence to compliance? Find out. If not, why not and why would a guy telling you everything is legit that he’s doing, not care enough to check out if who he is schlepping you off to is legit. If he just figured that out, I wonder how long it will take him to figure out that he may be violating the debt pooling laws in WV or perhaps debt adjuster laws in several states. He is after all offering to adjust your debt… to nothing. This is only the light stuff. It gets heavier as we approach how he may be violating both state and federal UDAP laws (Unfair and Deceptive Acts and Practices). Search it up. Take google for a spin. Learn what it is I am talking about here and while you’re at it encourage Brad and his attorney to do the same. It gets still heavier but, more of that in a moment.
    These things progress from what appears to be a solid plan in the beginning but then devolve into changes that repeat time after time. Early participants had all the straight talk and nothing appeared to diverge. As all the predictable aspects of having defaulted on a debt take shape with an increasing number of consumers signed into the elimination scam, things start to change. They already are with Brad. He figured out the credit repair angle as discussed. Most expert debt elimination scammers know not to dabble with government backed debt like student loans. Not Brad. Look for that to stop being offered soon too. Claims of nobody having been sued will then lead to only very few get sued. The ACA and ABA have some pretty talented well paid legal talent. A new twist on an old scam may take a few extra months to strategize their legal approach when suing CMS customers. When these suits begin they will do so in earnest and the approach they take will be broadcast to their member attorneys around the country. They will treat these cases with aggression due to the scam nature of them all. When the CMS promoters start preaching and peddling asset protection, BEWARE, the scam has run its course and will quickly deteriorate from there.
    Now, let’s get real and look at CMS in its entirety. You get contacted by a promoter and are sold on this process and send them money. They keep their cut and send the rest to Brad who then sends his new tortuously interfering contract which, you have been told up front by the promoter, means you do not have to pay that debt back. Brad and CMS own the debt and he is going to use this new contract he sends so that he won’t have to pay the debt back either. He is going to eliminate it. Everyone in this little triangle knows this up front and willingly chooses to participate. You, the promoter, and Brad have planned this out in advance. What I have just described to you is a conspiracy to commit fraud followed by the act of committing fraud. Let that sink in. The nice and sympathetic sounding man or woman who contacted you who is offering you an option to get out of debt, who’s true and only goal is for you to pay them money is blatantly inviting you to conspire to commit FRAUD! Throw in the claims and expectations that your credit will be repaired so that you can get credit shortly after committing fraud and this picture is crystal clear. These people are selling you an opportunity to commit a crime. This thing does not pass the smell test from 100 yards away for anyone applying logic to it.
    It gets worse. Those of you going for the whole government backed student loan angle on the scam are conspiring to commit fraud against the United States government! Brad has probably not factored this one in. He will. Look for student loans to be removed from the fraud offering.
    I talked about intriguing theories earlier. I just came up with one. Due to the recent banking turmoil the government was forced to take senior bond positions in many national banks. One could theorize that Brad and his promoters and customers have conspired to commit fraud against the U.S. without the student loan angle. See, I told you, many theories have intrigue.
    For those of you reading this that are already involved, it is not as simple as “ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances”. You are justifying fraud with excuses. Naturally the excuses sound good to you. The scam sales person may have already planted some excuses in your head. “This is the only chance I have to avoid bankruptcy”, “The banks won’t work with me so this is what they deserve”, “I don’t have the money to pay so what else am I to do”, “it’s a gamble, but if it works…” Folks this is not some side bet at a poker table. This is, pure and simple, you being complicit to fraud.
    Let’s move on to exposure. What is the likelihood, since this has been running for a verifiable 18 months, state regulators are already aware of it? Pretty good. How about the feds? Very good. Do you know how this stuff is treated by banks? Be assured that each one of the accounts that have been through CMS are in a neat little file at each institution for future use. These files and/or reports of their existence have assuredly already been sent off to the financial crimes and criminal fraud divisions of regulatory bodies like the OTS, FBI, FTC, Treasury and DOJ. These offices know now or, will soon know, all of you who are participating. Federal regulators are now, and have been for months actively engaged in operation “clean sweep” as it has been dubbed, with an extreme focus on the bad players and scammers in the debt relief industry. CMS is well within its crosshairs. Customers, promoters, and certainly Brad have exposed themselves to this scrutiny. Not good, not at all. Brad and the promoters will get what they have coming. You as a customer should immediately demand your money back, no matter the duration of your involvement. This will help show you were a victim. If the people you sent your money to are such stand up folks they would give you your money back right? If you told them you have doubts and shared with them this post they would refund you, right? Not likely. These people you trusted are not here to help you. They spent their cut of the money you sent already. Ask brad for the money back that he got. He likely won’t have it either and will probably say that he has performed as contracted so you are not entitled to your funds back. While it may not help to convince him to return your money, don’t hesitate to point out that he contracted with you to commit what you now know is fraud which leads to an inherent problem with that contract he is relying on. They will come off all soothing and say the guy who wrote this (me) works for the banks or collectors or runs some other scam that competes with Brad or other such garbage to calm you down and get you back on the carrot. They will say these and other things and, be wrong.
    As you become more aware that you have been scammed into fraud, or that someone is trying to get you to engage in fraud, contact state and federal authorities and provide them with any details they request of you.
    Anyone contacted by Brad or his reps having now read this who have been considering paying to enter this scam, send them this post and listen to their responses which will hopefully now sound ridiculous to you.
    There will be posts to follow this one made by different types of people. The ones that will attempt to refute any of what I have spelled out clearly hear will be from the promoters (carrot pushers) and, perhaps from Brad Daly (the carrot king) or, sadly from current customers who swallowed all the carrots fed to them. Read these posts but, look at them for what they are, carrot puke. They will be posted in furtherance of a fraud.
    If you are currently involved with this program or thinking about joining and have this circular logic/excuse running through your head “I don’t/didn’t have any other options” or “I don’t have the money to keep paying these debts so I took or, will take, the chance that this works”, STOP! You have to step away from the carrot or the fallacy that you have/can send these people money and never have to think about these debts again. Because what you are really saying is “I had no choice or other options and had to knowingly and willfully conspire to commit fraud”.
    Your decision has or will boil down to nothing but this reality.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    131

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Great post! I could not have said it better.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Phenomenal post Ponderer, quite factually accurate and I sincerely hope it helps people stay away from the CMS and Brad Daley scam!

  4. #4

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Actually I personally purchased this program last year for a small price. And they have been paying on them the payment and yes this program has worked so far. And just to let you know that when you do sign up for the program they are now giving you a legal binding document that is notarized with Brad Daley signature stating that he is taking over the accounts.
    Right now I'm personally in the last stages of the program and so far I have not had any problems with them at all.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    21

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Hope,

    Too much carrot juice will begin to effect the color pigment of your skin.

    Rather unsightly, really.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    131

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Quote Originally Posted by NeededHope View Post
    Actually I personally purchased this program last year for a small price. And they have been paying on them the payment and yes this program has worked so far. And just to let you know that when you do sign up for the program they are now giving you a legal binding document that is notarized with Brad Daley signature stating that he is taking over the accounts.
    Right now I'm personally in the last stages of the program and so far I have not had any problems with them at all.
    He takes over accounts, but the consumers are the ones that get sued. Humm wonder how that works... Get a life...

  7. #7

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    How can a consumer get sued if that consumer has proof that they no longer have responsiblity over the accounts. Noterized letters saying that Brad Daley has taken over the accounts. That's proof that they would be suing the right person.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    21

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Quote Originally Posted by NeededHope View Post
    How can a consumer get sued if that consumer has proof that they no longer have responsiblity over the accounts. Noterized letters saying that Brad Daley has taken over the accounts. That's proof that they would be suing the right person.

    Hi Needed,
    So what your saying is that there is a perfect paper trail to the scam?

    That should come in handy.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    59

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    I am posting this as the beginning of a new thread as the other one on this board has gotten quite long. I believe it is important for people doing searches to be able to get right to the meat rather than wading through what turned into a pom-pom and shilling session on the other thread of over 700 posts with nowhere near enough cold water thrown on it to wake people up (though some have tried). The other thread on this forum can be found here:
    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=720063&posted=1#post720063
    CMS is just another program in a long string of programs touted as a means to eliminate your debt through some loophole or process. The people who operate and promote this and, other programs, are preying on consumers who are stressed out and at the end of their financial rope. The successful mark is not thinking clearly and is often willing to cling to hope that is expertly delivered by sales reps. Think for a moment where you were at mentally when you filled out some form on the net for a consult and got a call introducing you to CMS. Frazzled is where. You would have to be to lend any credibility to some stranger calling you with a sympathetic sounding but slick pitch that when boiled down to its basic essence is as simple as “send me money and you will never have to pay your debt again”. To be certain there would have to be some emotionally appealing filler thrown in. I am sure some current event “banks are the bad guys, just watch the news” dialogue too. These are experienced people who will hit every nerve possible. They are nice sounding and patient for you to make a decision. They have to be. If they go for the money on the first call with a program like this you would have totally backed away. What they know is that times are tough for you and the prospect of not having to pay your debt back will start to sink in. In short order, for many of you, that carrot, the thought of not having to struggle anymore, for a mere few thousand dollars, paid to the order of slick sales person and Brad Daly, will begin to cloud your judgment. Critical thinking having been eliminated you will begin to convince yourself this will work. That’s all they have to do. Let you stew on the concept, loose off a little reality and you sell yourself. It’s successful enough to keep um at it from program to program.
    From what I have been able to glean, CMS has only had recognizable interaction with consumers for something like the last 18 months. Claims of having been at this for 5+ years are a bit dubious in that there is nothing available to substantiate this. It is perhaps likely that Brad has had experience working with consumers on debt related issues that long or, maybe one could speculate that he has done his novation/assignment/torturous interference longer than 18 months. Whatever the case, Brad Daly and his CMS process existed in near obscurity until recently and only found momentum, I would posit, when a ready body of sales reps came on the scene to promote it. There has been some intense regulatory and civil action in the debt relief area in the last couple years and as is the norm, these sales people will float from one elimination scam to the next after the one they promote predictably falls apart or the cops put and end to it. It is likely Brad found traction this way.
    Novation is nothing new to the world of debt elimination techniques. It was first offered to the public as one of the many methods of “send me money and never pay your debt again” by John Gliha in the late nineties. John even gave up on it. There is good case law on the process in California (perhaps as a result of John’s efforts) and elsewhere I am sure. Brad has gotten creative and thrown an assignment of debt into the mix along with terms that are sure to be breached and is hanging your future on his contract theory. It is an intriguing twist, I will admit. Many theories can be intriguing. Legal theories can be compelling. Bring this theory to an attorney with a dabbling of contract experience and they will likely speak to this intrigue. Take this intrigue to any level of critical thought and it will fall flat. Take the whole process in its entirety and it will be seen for what it is, Fraud.
    I understand there is an attorney working for Brad on this. This is one attorney and, he is being paid by Brad which establishes bias. He has to pay the bills and put food on the table and Brad is helping him do that. Nonetheless this fact is bandied about to lend credibility to this scam, er, process. If you truly wish to establish whether this program is the fantasy it truly is, bring it to an attorney with a successful consumer practice for review. Why a consumer attorney? They are not bank or collection industry sympathizers and look for opportunities to go toe to toe with them. In most cases they have already needled through these unsecured contracts the creditors use and many can recite them by rote. There should prove a ready pool of them willing to debunk the latest elimination/monetary protestation scam as they also are called upon to clean up the mess the consumers find themselves in when the scammers are gone.
    There have been other attorneys that function in debt elimination and have been shown to have been very wrong in their theorem and approaches. If you are seriously doing research pull up a search on Hess Kennedy, Consumer Law Center, Campos Chartered et al. Here is a recent example of a firm placed in receivership, an attorney disbarred and action taken by several states AG as well as civil action by banks. Here, things went very wrong but not before it ran its course for a couple years and affected over 6000 consumers nationwide. A very unique aspect of this case is that there are aggressive claw-back measures being pursued by those in a position to do so where the promoters are being pressed to return the monies and commissions they were paid (in some cases, to the tune of millions). Look for more of these claw-back measures and the establishment of complicity in the future.
    How about Robert Lock and CCDN (Credit Collection Defense Network)? If memory serves Lock associated with the afore mentioned John Gliha who published “Winning the collection Game” in the mid nineties and later moved onto novation and I think a brief stint with arbitration claims that went badly. Lock and his promoters are all across the net for your reading pleasure. He and some of the people and businesses connected to him are merrily entrenched in the defense of a class action suit brought in Illinois. If they don’t settle the case it will likely prove to go badly for them. I am sure though, they were confident of their position on things just like Laura Hess above. They are after all attorneys, with all of the credibility that brought to the victims who decided to join the programs.
    The point here is that an attorney does not necessarily lend credibility in the absolute. Perhaps Brad’s attorney is willing to risk his bar card with this theory. He may indeed. Someone may feel the need to respond to this and throw attorney credentials or write ups in defense of this scam but save it. Promoters of Lock have been doing that for years.
    I do not think it a good use of time to bring out lack of complaints to the BBB and all that bunk. It’s a diversion to make existing and future marks feel good about their decision. Just like the current banking turmoil is used as a diversion. Or, fractional reserve banking, GAAP, banks cannot lend their own money etc… which have been used in years past and still today. This is all just a diversion used to lull you into the carrot trance I spoke of earlier, until enough time passes for the prospect of never paying your debt again, sinks in. SNAP OUT OF IT! WAKE UP!
    The scam promoter will try to meet all of your objections with many assurances. One of those objections raised by a mark is how this affects their credit. The scam has to address this. Most people have spent their entire adult life conditioned to fret about it as it affects so many aspects of their lives. The answer is credit repair. Now we’re talking. This will all start to sink in quite nicely. Send money to Brad and the promoter and never pay my debt again and they are promising that my credit will be cleaned to boot and in a mere year or so. I will be back on my feet in no time and getting credit again. If you cannot see where this is going, you are not thinking clearly.
    Brad is figuring parts of this out as he goes. This is evidenced by the fact that he was doing credit repair and suddenly he is not. Any self respecting debt guru knows how aggressive regulators are about going after credit repair companies. Not Brad. Suddenly though, he is now outsourcing all of his customers to Alexin for credit repair because he just figured out that he is violating the Credit Repair Organization Act. Posters on this site have suggested that Brad is paying Alexin to perform the credit repair that he promises you. Is this arms length away from him in enough a manner that he is protected from violation of the Act? Using a strict interpretation of it, not likely. Is Alexin, his choice to source you off to, performing their part in strict adherence to compliance? Find out. If not, why not and why would a guy telling you everything is legit that he’s doing, not care enough to check out if who he is schlepping you off to is legit. If he just figured that out, I wonder how long it will take him to figure out that he may be violating the debt pooling laws in WV or perhaps debt adjuster laws in several states. He is after all offering to adjust your debt… to nothing. This is only the light stuff. It gets heavier as we approach how he may be violating both state and federal UDAP laws (Unfair and Deceptive Acts and Practices). Search it up. Take google for a spin. Learn what it is I am talking about here and while you’re at it encourage Brad and his attorney to do the same. It gets still heavier but, more of that in a moment.
    These things progress from what appears to be a solid plan in the beginning but then devolve into changes that repeat time after time. Early participants had all the straight talk and nothing appeared to diverge. As all the predictable aspects of having defaulted on a debt take shape with an increasing number of consumers signed into the elimination scam, things start to change. They already are with Brad. He figured out the credit repair angle as discussed. Most expert debt elimination scammers know not to dabble with government backed debt like student loans. Not Brad. Look for that to stop being offered soon too. Claims of nobody having been sued will then lead to only very few get sued. The ACA and ABA have some pretty talented well paid legal talent. A new twist on an old scam may take a few extra months to strategize their legal approach when suing CMS customers. When these suits begin they will do so in earnest and the approach they take will be broadcast to their member attorneys around the country. They will treat these cases with aggression due to the scam nature of them all. When the CMS promoters start preaching and peddling asset protection, BEWARE, the scam has run its course and will quickly deteriorate from there.
    Now, let’s get real and look at CMS in its entirety. You get contacted by a promoter and are sold on this process and send them money. They keep their cut and send the rest to Brad who then sends his new tortuously interfering contract which, you have been told up front by the promoter, means you do not have to pay that debt back. Brad and CMS own the debt and he is going to use this new contract he sends so that he won’t have to pay the debt back either. He is going to eliminate it. Everyone in this little triangle knows this up front and willingly chooses to participate. You, the promoter, and Brad have planned this out in advance. What I have just described to you is a conspiracy to commit fraud followed by the act of committing fraud. Let that sink in. The nice and sympathetic sounding man or woman who contacted you who is offering you an option to get out of debt, who’s true and only goal is for you to pay them money is blatantly inviting you to conspire to commit FRAUD! Throw in the claims and expectations that your credit will be repaired so that you can get credit shortly after committing fraud and this picture is crystal clear. These people are selling you an opportunity to commit a crime. This thing does not pass the smell test from 100 yards away for anyone applying logic to it.
    It gets worse. Those of you going for the whole government backed student loan angle on the scam are conspiring to commit fraud against the United States government! Brad has probably not factored this one in. He will. Look for student loans to be removed from the fraud offering.
    I talked about intriguing theories earlier. I just came up with one. Due to the recent banking turmoil the government was forced to take senior bond positions in many national banks. One could theorize that Brad and his promoters and customers have conspired to commit fraud against the U.S. without the student loan angle. See, I told you, many theories have intrigue.
    For those of you reading this that are already involved, it is not as simple as “ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances”. You are justifying fraud with excuses. Naturally the excuses sound good to you. The scam sales person may have already planted some excuses in your head. “This is the only chance I have to avoid bankruptcy”, “The banks won’t work with me so this is what they deserve”, “I don’t have the money to pay so what else am I to do”, “it’s a gamble, but if it works…” Folks this is not some side bet at a poker table. This is, pure and simple, you being complicit to fraud.
    Let’s move on to exposure. What is the likelihood, since this has been running for a verifiable 18 months, state regulators are already aware of it? Pretty good. How about the feds? Very good. Do you know how this stuff is treated by banks? Be assured that each one of the accounts that have been through CMS are in a neat little file at each institution for future use. These files and/or reports of their existence have assuredly already been sent off to the financial crimes and criminal fraud divisions of regulatory bodies like the OTS, FBI, FTC, Treasury and DOJ. These offices know now or, will soon know, all of you who are participating. Federal regulators are now, and have been for months actively engaged in operation “clean sweep” as it has been dubbed, with an extreme focus on the bad players and scammers in the debt relief industry. CMS is well within its crosshairs. Customers, promoters, and certainly Brad have exposed themselves to this scrutiny. Not good, not at all. Brad and the promoters will get what they have coming. You as a customer should immediately demand your money back, no matter the duration of your involvement. This will help show you were a victim. If the people you sent your money to are such stand up folks they would give you your money back right? If you told them you have doubts and shared with them this post they would refund you, right? Not likely. These people you trusted are not here to help you. They spent their cut of the money you sent already. Ask brad for the money back that he got. He likely won’t have it either and will probably say that he has performed as contracted so you are not entitled to your funds back. While it may not help to convince him to return your money, don’t hesitate to point out that he contracted with you to commit what you now know is fraud which leads to an inherent problem with that contract he is relying on. They will come off all soothing and say the guy who wrote this (me) works for the banks or collectors or runs some other scam that competes with Brad or other such garbage to calm you down and get you back on the carrot. They will say these and other things and, be wrong.
    As you become more aware that you have been scammed into fraud, or that someone is trying to get you to engage in fraud, contact state and federal authorities and provide them with any details they request of you.
    Anyone contacted by Brad or his reps having now read this who have been considering paying to enter this scam, send them this post and listen to their responses which will hopefully now sound ridiculous to you.
    There will be posts to follow this one made by different types of people. The ones that will attempt to refute any of what I have spelled out clearly hear will be from the promoters (carrot pushers) and, perhaps from Brad Daly (the carrot king) or, sadly from current customers who swallowed all the carrots fed to them. Read these posts but, look at them for what they are, carrot puke. They will be posted in furtherance of a fraud.
    If you are currently involved with this program or thinking about joining and have this circular logic/excuse running through your head “I don’t/didn’t have any other options” or “I don’t have the money to keep paying these debts so I took or, will take, the chance that this works”, STOP! You have to step away from the carrot or the fallacy that you have/can send these people money and never have to think about these debts again. Because what you are really saying is “I had no choice or other options and had to knowingly and willfully conspire to commit fraud”.
    Your decision has or will boil down to nothing but this reality.
    This is wonderfully thought out, cogent, and well-written post. It must have taken some time to compose.

    A few thoughts.

    You say that "CMS is well within [investigators'] crosshairs." Would you please tell us how you know this?

    When I first talked to a CMS rep, that it was fraud was my first thought. Well, my second one, actually, right after "how could I possibly come up with $4,000?"

    I don't know if you've ever talked to a rep, but there is also some distraction in the conversation. There's monetary theory, and economic theory, and so on [watch as my fingers never leave the ends of my hands]. The rep I spoke to subscribes to the theory that there is no such thing as money because you create it with a signature on a loan application, etc., etc. While that's all well and good for a discussion while sitting around with friends, it's really beside the point because you can't use it in a brief to a court - not by a long shot. [I also thinks it's bunk, but that's another story]. Anyhow, it seemed to me to be designed to put get me thinking that credit, finances, money, and debt are all a huge illusion and therefore it's right and proper that I wouldn't pay.

    So, I knew after the first phone call that I would be committing fraud if it worked. That didn't stop me, necessarily, from considering it. The fraud does have legal cover of a sort. According to the reps, Brad Daley is willing and able to pay the $10 minimum payments to the creditors forever if they won't discharge the debt. I believe that corporations make money in all sorts of ethically shady ways. They stay within the letter of the law and get away with it. Knowing that, it's possible that the CMS method could work and not be technically fraudulent.

    Thing is, the CMS novation has never been ruled on in a court of law. Because laws can have two parts, legislation and adjudication, no one really knows whether or not the novation is sufficient legal cover.

    The thing that had me most worried, after committing fraud, was the contract. The bulk of it discharges from Brad Daley/ CMS all responsibility from whatever follows from the arrangement with him. The debtor agrees to hold him harmless. Uhhh, errrr . . . what! Yes, he has no liability and further, he offers no warranties or guarantees about the service.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    21

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Hi capecod,
    Thanks for the feedback on your experience with a promoter. It confirms the shadiness of this operation even further.

    As for your "crosshairs" question.
    I made that comment based on a very deep understanding of the mechanisms that kick into gear at many levels as well as the timing surrounding current efforts.

    In further comment to your post:
    The intent of the tortuous interference behind the CMS process cannot possibly be denied. It is sold to each mark this way so, the fraud is evident from start to finish.

    The reference to CMS and Brad having the ability to keep paying on all of these accounts would fall flat right out of the gate. Just for fun though, lets do some math.

    In the other thread someone brought out that Brad said he had well over 1000 CMS customers. Lets assume for this excersize that each customer submits 20k into the scam (very conservative figure). Brad would need to be able to show he had the 20 million on hand otherwise the thing takes on a very ponzi nature in that new marks coming in would be funding payments for prior marks.

    These numbers are conservative in the extreme and still the figure is huge!

    This thing stinks of fermented carrots.
    Last edited by Ponderer; 02-03-2009 at 04:06 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    59

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    I answered you in the other thread because it's too exhausting to cross-post LOL

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Quote Originally Posted by NeededHope View Post
    How can a consumer get sued if that consumer has proof that they no longer have responsiblity over the accounts. Noterized letters saying that Brad Daley has taken over the accounts. That's proof that they would be suing the right person.
    Your answer: Because the Card Companies DO NOT ALLOW you to hand over your debts to someone else! Just because you DID, does not mean the Card Companies will accept it!:judges:

    Read your Card Agreement THOROUGHLY because it will certainly be there when you are in court!

  13. #13

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    It is not Fraud to "re-contract" with another company/entity. This is done all the time. That is called the freedom to contract given the right under the United States Constiution Contracts Clause. Contracts are entered into everyday with terms that are favorable to either party. Here, the terms of the contract are changed. This is basic contracts, "101". All you conspiracy people out there.....they must be the ones that think 911 is a conspiracy too. Idiots.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    I am left mystified on why no one, both the naysayers against CMS and those who are going through the CMS process, has not thought to go research the law for themselves. Both sides are waiting for someone "of authority" to decree to them that either this is unlawful or illegal or not.
    First off, lets review what is the definition of scam. Merriam-Websters defines scam as a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation. Now, what are the elements, in law, to support an allegation of fraud: a material false statement made with the intent to deceive (called scienter), a victim's reliance on the statement, and damages. Since we have framed the law, lets review the facts of the CMS process as has been relayed by those who have undergone this process to see if this would support a charge of fraud, either against CMS or the person whom assigned their debt to CMS (note I did not say client - there are no facts that I have become aware that the original debtor pays CMS anything). Is the assignment of the alleged debt true or false? The facts, as alleged by those who are in or have gone through the CMS process, shows that said assignment is true. After assignment, is the offer made by CMS to a creditor false (i.e. did CMS actually believe and intend to perform on their offer of new terms and conditions to the creditor)? Again, based on the facts alleged in this thread, CMS not only intends, but does perform in accord with those new terms and conditions -so, not false. Although I have not seen the actual check and notice of offer given to a creditor, the facts alleged here shows that CMS is not attempting to "slide one in" on the creditor by using the normal payment channel, but going to the official correspondence channel for the creditor to present the offer - no intent to deceive. Given that a court of equity/law will not go any farther to determine if any of the other elements exist to support an allegation of fraud if the first element cannot be sustained, I will not go any farther in the analysis either. It is clear that the CMS process does not constitute fraud.
    Second, I cannot believe that the naysayers support and attempt to justify the allegation that the creditor can require you to give up you right to contract in their offer. Telling someone (or attempting to require as a condition of a contract) that they have no right to renegotiate a contract is false, which means the person making such an allegation satisfies the first element of fraud as mentioned above. If the people secured their right to contract from interference from government in their right to contract, does anyone really contend that a creature of the state (a business licensed by said state) somehow gained such a power?Furthermore, for any lawyer or judge attempting to support any person bringing a court process based on such a contention could be considered a co-conspirator in such an endeavor to deprive the defendant of their rights (guess what, no immunity for the judge) as well as violating their oath of office (can someone say quo warranto?). Since a court is a legitimate enterprise, using such a forum to commit crimes could constitute a RICO violation.
    Third, I also do not understand the weight some people give to court opinions. A court opinion is simply a judge or collection of judges opinions (case-law). Case law only means that such opinions given on a specific set of facts that have already been adjuducated should be held in the same manner unless justification is shown to overturn such an opinion. These opinions are only required to be maintained by courts under the jurisdiction of the forum such opinion was held. Case-law is meant to provide uniformity within the courts and ensure a standard of due process and equality under the law. However, at the end of the day, it is merely opinion and not the law. It is a misnomer to label such a thing as "law" because the judiciary is prohibited by the people from being able to make law (of course, the legislature doesn't make law, they make statutes which are simply terms and conditions to a contract as well, but I digress).
    Fourth, a person going through the CMS process should not be fearful of a creditor bringing a court action. If a creditor that has been given notice of the offer and performs under said offer without notifying you or CMS of their refusal, then takes you to court over it is not only abusing court process with a frivolous suit, but also is guilty of commiting fraud against you. Now, it is you and CMS relying on representations by the creditor that they have agreed to the offer. Of course, this depends on whether CMS can provide proof of service to the creditor of the offer (easily done with a copy of the check cashed by the creditor). So, instead of fearing them bringing you into court, they should fear you because you can counterclaim with malicious bringing of a lawsuit against you, counterclaim of fraud against them, and motion for sanctions against them and their attorneys for a frivolous suit and abuse of process.

    Based on my experience with the law and the facts as alleged by those going through the CMS process, it does not appear that it is a scam. Anyone claiming that a creditor can bind you to an agreement where they are free to redefine it at anytime and you cannot is simply a traitor in our midst - for such is not equal treatment under the law. One cannot contract their rights away and it is a courts job to ensure that we are protected from such nonsense (which is the very purpose of a court of equity).

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    13

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Well said Citizensoldier. I don't know what ponderers problem is.

    Ponderer are you or have you been a customer of CMS? Or are you a collection agent and CMS is hurting your business:spin2:

    I think people say that CMS is a scam for two reasons. First, because CMS asks for the money up front. So, they have to be ripping you off. In the past I have worked with helping people stop foreclosure and I know you have to get the money up front or you don't get paid. That why I no longer do it . The state of Maryland passed a law that said you can't get the money up front.

    The second reason people think its a scam is "it sounds to good to be true so, it can't be". Every law has its flaw and CMS has found the flaw in the way the credit company does business. I asked them why the checks go through with the novation stamp on the back and the answer I got was the credit companies let the payments go through because they process so many checks it would cost them too much to change their way of doing business and stop the one check out of thousands with something stamped on back.

    Poderer, I have an idea. Why don't you rant and rave about how the government gave the banks billions of dollars and at the same time talking about raising late fees and interest rates on credit cards. Or how about how banks can borrow money from the government for 0 percent and then turn around and make you pay 13-19% or higher on a credit card.

    Just think how much money the government could have saved if they just gave everyone 1 million dollars to pay off mortgages, credit cards, student loans and buy a new GM car:
    To me that would have been alot cheaper. 300 million people, 1 million apiece 100 buck to cut the checks. vs 180 billion to AIG, 30 billion to Citi. Why don't you ponderer that.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    131

    Re: Brad Daly and CMS

    Quote Originally Posted by dave620 View Post
    Well said Citizensoldier. I don't know what ponderers problem is.

    Ponderer are you or have you been a customer of CMS? Or are you a collection agent and CMS is hurting your business:spin2:

    I think people say that CMS is a scam for two reasons. First, because CMS asks for the money up front. So, they have to be ripping you off. In the past I have worked with helping people stop foreclosure and I know you have to get the money up front or you don't get paid. That why I no longer do it . The state of Maryland passed a law that said you can't get the money up front.

    The second reason people think its a scam is "it sounds to good to be true so, it can't be". Every law has its flaw and CMS has found the flaw in the way the credit company does business. I asked them why the checks go through with the novation stamp on the back and the answer I got was the credit companies let the payments go through because they process so many checks it would cost them too much to change their way of doing business and stop the one check out of thousands with something stamped on back.

    Poderer, I have an idea. Why don't you rant and rave about how the government gave the banks billions of dollars and at the same time talking about raising late fees and interest rates on credit cards. Or how about how banks can borrow money from the government for 0 percent and then turn around and make you pay 13-19% or higher on a credit card.

    Just think how much money the government could have saved if they just gave everyone 1 million dollars to pay off mortgages, credit cards, student loans and buy a new GM car:
    To me that would have been alot cheaper. 300 million people, 1 million apiece 100 buck to cut the checks. vs 180 billion to AIG, 30 billion to Citi. Why don't you ponderer that.
    There is a third reason people call it a scam, because it is a SCAM! They take money and do absolutely nothing for the consumers, other than instructing them to default on their loans. To me that is a scam, the provide a false sense of security and the worst part is that the debt does not go away, people owe as much before the scam as they do after they go trough the scam. There is no debt removal or deletion.

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