+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,866

    Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Few Biologists but Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition
    By KENNETH CHANG

    In the recent skirmishes over evolution, advocates who have pushed to dilute its teaching have regularly pointed to a petition signed by 514 scientists and engineers.

    The petition, they say, is proof that scientific doubt over evolution persists. But random interviews with 20 people who signed the petition and a review of the public statements of more than a dozen others suggest that many are evangelical Christians, whose doubts about evolution grew out of their religious beliefs. And even the petition's sponsor, the Discovery Institute in Seattle, says that only a quarter of the signers are biologists, whose field is most directly concerned with evolution. The other signers include 76 chemists, 75 engineers, 63 physicists and 24 professors of medicine.

    The petition was started in 2001 by the institute, which champions intelligent design as an alternative theory to evolution and supports a "teach the controversy" approach, like the one scuttled by the state Board of Education in Ohio last week.

    Institute officials said that 41 people added their names to the petition after a federal judge ruled in December against the Dover, Pa., school district's attempt to present intelligent design as an alternative to evolution.

    "Early on, the critics said there was nobody who disbelieved Darwin's theory except for rubes in the woods," said Bruce Chapman, president of the institute. "How many does it take to be a noticeable minority — 10, 50, 100, 500?"

    Mr. Chapman said the petition showed "there is a minority of scientists who disagree with Darwin's theory, and it is not just a handful."

    The petition makes no mention of intelligent design, the proposition that life is so complex that it is best explained as the design of an intelligent being. Rather, it states: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

    A Web site with the full list of those who signed the petition was made available yesterday by the institute at dissentfromdarwin.org. The signers all claim doctorates in science or engineering. The list includes a few nationally prominent scientists like James M. Tour, a professor of chemistry at Rice University; Rosalind W. Picard, director of the affective computing research group at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology; and Philip S. Skell, an emeritus professor of chemistry at Penn State who is also a member of the National Academy of Sciences.

    It also includes many with more modest positions, like Thomas H. Marshall, director of public works in Delaware, Ohio, who has a doctorate in environmental ecology. The Discovery Institute says 128 signers hold degrees in the biological sciences and 26 in biochemistry. That leaves more than 350 nonbiologists, including Dr. Tour, Dr. Picard and Dr. Skell.

    Of the 128 biologists who signed, few conduct research that would directly address the question of what shaped the history of life.

    Of the signers who are evangelical Christians, most defend their doubts on scientific grounds but also say that evolution runs against their religious beliefs.

    Several said that their doubts began when they increased their involvement with Christian churches.

    Some said they read the Bible literally and doubt not only evolution but also findings of geology and cosmology that show the universe and the earth to be billions of years old.

    Scott R. Fulton, a professor of mathematics and computer science at Clarkson University in Potsdam, N.Y., who signed the petition, said that the argument for intelligent design was "very interesting and promising."

    He said he thought his religious belief was "not particularly relevant" in how he judged intelligent design. "It probably influences in the sense in that it makes me very interested in the questions," he said. "When I see scientific evidence that points to God, I find that encouraging."

    Roger J. Lien, a professor of poultry science at Auburn, said he received a copy of the petition from Christian friends.

    "I stuck my name on it," he said. "Basically, it states what I believe."

    Dr. Lien said that he grew up in California in a family that was not deeply religious and that he accepted evolution through much of his scientific career. He said he became a Christian about a decade ago, six years after he joined the Auburn faculty.

    "The world is broken, and we humans and our science can't fix it," Dr. Lien said. "I was brought to Jesus Christ and God and creationism and believing in the Bible."

    He also said he thought that evolution was "inconsistent with what the Bible says."

    Another signer is Dr. Gregory J. Brewer, a professor of cell biology at the Southern Illinois University medical school. Like other skeptics, he readily accepts what he calls "microevolution," the ability of species to adapt to changing conditions in their environment. But he holds to the opinion that science has not convincingly shown that one species can evolve into another.

    "I think there's a lot of problems with evolutionary dogma," said Dr. Brewer, who also does not accept the scientific consensus that the universe is billions of years old. "Scientifically, I think there are other possibilities, one of which would be intelligent design. Based on faith, I do believe in the creation account."

    Dr. Tour, who developed the "nano-car" — a single molecule in the shape of a car, with four rolling wheels — said he remained open-minded about evolution.

    "I respect that work," said Dr. Tour, who describes himself as a Messianic Jew, one who also believes in Christ as the Messiah.

    But he said his experience in chemistry and nanotechnology had showed him how hard it was to maneuver atoms and molecules. He found it hard to believe, he said, that nature was able to produce the machinery of cells through random processes. The explanations offered by evolution, he said, are incomplete.

    "I can't make the jumps, the leaps they make in the explanations," Dr. Tour said. "Will I or other scientists likely be able to makes those jumps in the future? Maybe."

    Opposing petitions have sprung up. The National Center for Science Education, which has battled efforts to dilute the teaching of evolution, has sponsored a pro-evolution petition signed by 700 scientists named Steve, in honor of Stephen Jay Gould, the Harvard paleontologist who died in 2002.

    The petition affirms that evolution is "a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences."

    Mr. Chapman of that institute said the opposing petitions were beside the point. "We never claimed we're in a fight for numbers," he said.

    Discovery officials said that they did not ask the religious beliefs of the signers and that such beliefs were not relevant. John G. West, a senior fellow at Discovery, said it was "stunning hypocrisy" to ask signers about their religion "while treating the religious beliefs of the proponents of Darwin as irrelevant."

    Discovery officials did point to two scientists, David Berlinski, a philosopher and mathematician and a senior fellow at the institute, and Stanley N. Salthe, a visiting scientist at Binghamton University, State University of New York, who signed but do not hold conservative religious beliefs.

    Dr. Salthe, who describes himself as an atheist, said that when he signed the petition he had no idea what the Discovery Institute was. Rather, he said, "I signed it in irritation."

    He said evolutionary biologists were unfairly suppressing any competing ideas. "They deserve to be prodded, as it were," Dr. Salthe said. "It was my way of thumbing my nose at them."

    Dr. Salthe said he did not find intelligent design to be a compelling theory, either. "From my point of view," he said, "it's a plague on both your houses."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    432

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Well, as luck would have it, Science is based on fact not opinion. So, unless these idiots can bring some validated date to the table, they will remain just that....IDiots.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,272

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Few Biologists but Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition
    By KENNETH CHANG

    In the recent skirmishes over evolution, advocates who have pushed to dilute its teaching have regularly pointed to a petition signed by 514 scientists and engineers.
    If I organized a petition stating ‘The world is Flat’ or ‘The sun revolves around the Earth’ I bet I could get at least 500 people to sign it.
    And I would start by passing it out to this crew of nit wits.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,081

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    scientists who allow their religion to get in their way of actual supported fact does not even deserve to be called a scientist. he should be stripped of his rank and sent back to colloge. and wait, this was started in 2001? it took 5 years to get about 500 signatures? a petition to create the video game "Aliens vs Predator 3" got about 2000 signatures in 2 weeks. this definatly doesnt seem like a ver strongly supported petition. oh, and lets say we no longer teach evolution, what do we replace it with? CREATIONISM? something TOTALLY UNACADEMIC? i thought we were supposed to teach both sides of a debate, but now we are forcing religious beliefs on children in public schools? thats DISGUSTING!!! id be ashamed to live in this country if thats how low we got. its like Totaltarism where nothing else can be taught or said (thats a bit of an exxageration). and if we no longer teach evolution, but replace it with creationism, why not no longer teach about sex, but instead say "babies come from storks"? why not teach about Santa, or the Tooth Fairy, or add frickin' UNICORNS to the biology curriculum. my point is, if this petition comes into effect, what will the result of it be?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,866

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    If I organized a petition stating ‘The world is Flat’ or ‘The sun revolves around the Earth’ I bet I could get at least 500 people to sign it.
    And I would start by passing it out to this crew of nit wits.
    Especially if you had 5 years in which to circulate the petition. In fact, I think you could easily double the number of signatures, lol.

    Lady Mod

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,272

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Crab of PAIN!!!
    scientists who allow their religion to get in their way of actual supported fact does not even deserve to be called a scientist. he should be stripped of his rank and sent back to colloge. and wait, this was started in 2001? it took 5 years to get about 500 signatures? a petition to create the video game "Aliens vs Predator 3" got about 2000 signatures in 2 weeks. this definatly doesnt seem like a ver strongly supported petition. oh, and lets say we no longer teach evolution, what do we replace it with? CREATIONISM? something TOTALLY UNACADEMIC? i thought we were supposed to teach both sides of a debate, but now we are forcing religious beliefs on children in public schools? thats DISGUSTING!!! id be ashamed to live in this country if thats how low we got. its like Totaltarism where nothing else can be taught or said (thats a bit of an exxageration). and if we no longer teach evolution, but replace it with creationism, why not no longer teach about sex, but instead say "babies come from storks"? why not teach about Santa, or the Tooth Fairy, or add frickin' UNICORNS to the biology curriculum. my point is, if this petition comes into effect, what will the result of it be?
    I predict this petition will have no effect in advancing the ID loonies agenda. In fact it likely to be counter-productive in achieving their goal. It may serve to label its signers as nut jobs to the acedemic community at large.
    This petition is just one futile act in a long line of futile acts that have proven the IDER'S can't find any legimate supporters for their demented agenda to establish a theocracy in local school systems.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    432

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    That's similar to the one the Disco Institute has, the 500 list of Anti-Evolution Scientists (althought a large number are not scientists in the biology field).

    It seems that with most, the religion came first.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,081

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    how many people do you think i can get to sign a "the people who signed the anti-evolution petition are nut cases" petition?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    432

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Me first...me first!!!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    27,212

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Synik
    Well, as luck would have it, Science is based on fact not opinion. So, unless these idiots can bring some validated date to the table, they will remain just that....IDiots.
    speakin a validated idiots!?how ya doin syn!?ick!?hehe!!ok,relax.......it's not "official yet"!?!....."and exuse me if this "outdated" material!?hehe!!ya gotta like girls!?they just wanna have fun!?that is until after the "fall of man",otherwise known as.....marriage!?hehe!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    27,212

    Re: Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Crab of PAIN!!!
    scientists who allow their religion to get in their way of actual supported fact does not even deserve to be called a scientist. he should be stripped of his rank and sent back to colloge. and wait, this was started in 2001? it took 5 years to get about 500 signatures? a petition to create the video game "Aliens vs Predator 3" got about 2000 signatures in 2 weeks. this definatly doesnt seem like a ver strongly supported petition. oh, and lets say we no longer teach evolution, what do we replace it with? CREATIONISM? something TOTALLY UNACADEMIC? i thought we were supposed to teach both sides of a debate, but now we are forcing religious beliefs on children in public schools? thats DISGUSTING!!! id be ashamed to live in this country if thats how low we got. its like Totaltarism where nothing else can be taught or said (thats a bit of an exxageration). and if we no longer teach evolution, but replace it with creationism, why not no longer teach about sex, but instead say "babies come from storks"? why not teach about Santa, or the Tooth Fairy, or add frickin' UNICORNS to the biology curriculum. my point is, if this petition comes into effect, what will the result of it be?
    remember the scene in the new movie version of "lost in space" where the son(will) made a time machine outa spare parts to return to earth......to go home....and the only reason he was able to accomplish this was because he was protected by the evil scientist!?(pretending to be good!?)when in reality the evil scientist was all the long planning to use the time machine himself to destroy the world!?hehe!!ok!!what's my point!?.........ya had to go mess with santa claus,the tooth fairy,and my fav........unicorns!?the stork is a toss-up!?hehe!!

Similar Threads

  1. Come on Texans, sign the petition...
    By sojustask in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-02-2013, 08:34 AM
  2. Deport the Rednecks - Sign the Petition
    By Yawn... in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-18-2012, 11:12 AM
  3. Replies: 312
    Last Post: 03-06-2012, 01:48 PM
  4. Cheney Care ... sign the Petition!!
    By California Surfin in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-20-2008, 09:55 AM
  5. Sign Petition If You Are A Values Voter
    By boone in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-16-2006, 03:05 PM

Tags for this Thread

Add / Edit Tags
000, 2001, academy, accepted, account, acts, add, address, advocates, aliens, anti, ashamed, babies, based, basically, bet, billions, bit, blue, brewer, bring, broke, bruce, buster, called, calls, career, careful, cell, center, cer, children, chris, christians, claims, community, complete, complex, concerned, condi, conservative, cosmology, country, crew, david, debate, december, defend, deserve, director, disgusting, district, doesn, double, dozen, ear, early, earth, easily, eme, engineering, engineers, eth, eva, evangelicals, evil, experience, explained, faith, fall, federal, field, fix, fla, fun, future, game, girls, goal, good, gotta, group, hard, hats, hey, his, holds, home, honor, huma, humans, idiots, ime, include, influences, interested, ion, jay, john, joined, judge, large, last, lets, lien, line, lis, live, local, lol, longer, los, lost, lot, luck, machine, marriage, marshall, massachusetts, medical, member, mental, mention, mess, more, movie, named, nationally, nature, nose, numbers, official, officials, ohio, only, open, opinion, org, par, pen, philip, plan, planning, point, predator, presiden, pretending, pro, productive, promising, proposition, protected, prove, proven, public, quarter, question, questions, quote, random, read, reality, reason, relax, religion, religious, remain, remember, replace, research, respect, return, rice, ripped, roy, runs, san, santa, schools, science, scientists, scu, seattle, seem, sen, sense, sex, showed, sign, signed, site, son, space, star, start, states, stephen, steve, stripped, sun, supported, supports, suppressing, systems, table, teach, ted, theory, they, thomas, thought, time, totally, tour, universe, version, video, vinci, vital, wait, week, weeks, west, world, years, yesterday, york

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •