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  1. #1
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    BUSH vs terrorists

    Why is it that all the "Bush haters" don't care to recognize the fact that we have not had a successful act of terrorism take place in this country since Bush launched an all-out assault on terror. He has taken the fight to the terrorists and thereby protects all of us living here in this great country although many brave Americans are in danger everyday around the world. Let me ask you this: You are given only two options, and must choose one. Would you choose to (1) protect your "rights" and the "rights" of your family or (2) protect your life and the lives of your family?

  2. #2
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bullspeed
    Why is it that all the "Bush haters" don't care to recognize the fact that we have not had a successful act of terrorism take place in this country since Bush launched an all-out assault on terror. He has taken the fight to the terrorists and thereby protects all of us living here in this great country although many brave Americans are in danger everyday around the world. Let me ask you this: You are given only two options, and must choose one. Would you choose to (1) protect your "rights" and the "rights" of your family or (2) protect your life and the lives of your family?
    WRONG STATEMENT
    WRONG QUESTION
    WRONG ANSWERS
    Your batting 1000 so far champ!!!!

  3. #3
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    Rusted is offline Gold Scams Member User Rank
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    I side with Benjamin Franklin on that issue. "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

    Liberty is always risky but well worth it.

  4. #4
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bullspeed
    Why is it that all the "Bush haters" don't care to recognize the fact that we have not had a successful act of terrorism take place in this country since Bush launched an all-out assault on terror. He has taken the fight to the terrorists and thereby protects all of us living here in this great country although many brave Americans are in danger everyday around the world. Let me ask you this: You are given only two options, and must choose one. Would you choose to (1) protect your "rights" and the "rights" of your family or (2) protect your life and the lives of your family?
    Had we done nothing different than what we were doing before, odds are that there still would not have been another successful act of terror. Had we gone after al queda, hunted them down like animals and captured those responsible for the attacks against this country and had we not lauched a pre-emptive attack against a country that did not attack us, and had we used some of the billions of dollars wasted on this Iraqi conflict for homeland security odds are this country would be safer and more united. As it is, Bush has not made this country safer, but has, in fact, put this country in greater jepardy of another attack.
    Your hypothetical question is really misleading. You seem to assume that protecting one's rights somehow leave's your life and your family's lives in great peril. People who lived under facist and communist states had none of the rights that you do and their lives and those of their families were protected, yet were they better off? Who was it that said "Give me liberty, or give me death?" In this country you have three options and the third one is to protect your rights and protect your life and the lives of your family. I for one, choose (3).
    Rusted was right on the money with that Franklin quote.

  5. #5
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Bullspeed,

    Who are you to present only two very limited options? What you fail to realize is that our terrorist enemies are very very very patient. Almost to a fault. But of course all of you short-sighted bush cheerleaders are all too eager to jump on the "we havent had an attack" band wagon. Is your memory so short that you dont remember that 8 YEARS passed between the first and second World Trade Center attacks.

    As soon as we knew that the WTC was a possible target actions should have been taken by the Clinton administration and followed up on by the Bush administration.

    Please understand, I am no bush hater. I wish he would do more and increase the pressure in Iraq and hurry up and get the job done. We have so many more important fronts to attend to.

    But to use the logic that we havent been attacked so our tactics must be working is ridiculous. Why do you think they are called terrorist cells? They have long term, even generational goals in mind and they will do whatever it takes to take us down and they are prepared to wait us out however long it takes.

    Just because an incident has not occured does not mean that we are doing a good job of protecting our country.

  6. #6
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Hey, it's cheaper, more convienient and less restrictive (for them) for terrorists to get us to come to their countries and wage a war on their turf that they are familiar with, than it is for them to launch an attack against us here across the Atlantic ocean. It's how we won the Revolutionary war too. The americans were much more familiar with the countryside here than the British were and we won through using our own little terrorist ambushes against them.


    The only ones spending billions of dollars to wage war is the United States. It's more of a who will run out of money and commitment first kind of thing. And if we do end up "winning" we will spend millions more rebuilding their countries. Looked at from that point of view, it's a winning situation for them either way. The American people are no less safe and no more safe but we'll pay for these wars for generations to come.

    The true terrorists to America reside on Capitol Hill. Anyone with some common sense can see that.

    Lady Mod

  7. #7
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Good to see all the Bush-haters are spinning again. Who said I was a "Bush cheerlader"...not I. I love the Franklin quote. Unfortunately, it never happend. It is common for people to confuse fact with hearsay. I should say that it is better to be quiet and assumed a fool than to open your mouth and be proven one. Ben Franklin never said what you credit him with. He did however say, in Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738, "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." And it is common knowledge that many variants derived from this phrase have arisen and have usually been incorrectly attributed to Franklin:
    "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"
    "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security"
    "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither"
    "If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both."
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

    -Oh yeah, and the (8) year gap in terrorist activity against Americans...have u ever heard of USS COLE, USS The Sullivans, the American Embassies in Africa...need I say more.

  8. #8
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bullspeed
    Why is it that all the "Bush haters" don't care to recognize the fact that we have not had a successful act of terrorism take place in this country since Bush launched an all-out assault on terror.
    Well, I can't speak for all the "Bush haters", but I think I speak for those despise the policies of his administration when I say that's it's most likely because he's doing everything he can to make the event of another terrorist attack a likelihood.

    Whatever you call it, it can't possibly be a "war on terrorism".

  9. #9
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    sojustask is offline The Late, Great Lady Mod - Retired User Rank
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bullspeed
    He did however say, in Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738, "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." And it is common knowledge that many variants derived from this phrase have arisen and have usually been incorrectly attributed to Franklin:
    ...need I say more.
    No, you've said enough. Ben Franklin's original quote still applies. The war is about wealth and power and the US trying to control both. And Americans placed too low a value on both their virtue and liberty.

    Lady Mod

  10. #10
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bullspeed
    Good to see all the Bush-haters are spinning again. Who said I was a "Bush cheerlader"...not I.
    You don't like being called a "Bush cheerleader", yet you call everyone who's responded to your thread a "Bush-hater". My, that's hypocritical of you.

    On Franklin, the statement "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" was the motto from the title page of a historical review Franklin published. It was therefore attributed to him. He was apparently not the author, but the motto seems to be derived from his own statement in his Almanac.

    Of course, that's entirely irrelevant to your thread.

  11. #11
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Bullspeed you're killin me. First you yourself jump on the board and say "Why is it that all the "Bush haters" don't care to recognize the fact that we have not had a successful act of terrorism take place in this country since Bush launched an all-out assault on terror" and then when DeceivedOne correctly points out the fact that there was an 8 year gap between successful acts of terrorism taking place in this country you, in typical neocon doublespeak, change this to "Oh yeah, and the (8) year gap in terrorist activity against Americans.."

    Ok that's fine. Let's change the discussion then. Americans are experiencing attacks against them on a daily basis in Iraq and other parts of the world. So the question that begs to be asked is.... How can you Bush cheerleaders not recognize the fact that we have had more acts of terrorism against Americans since he has been in the office of president than at any time in history? And how can you just sit back and not renounce the infringement upon the rights of the American people by this administration?

  12. #12
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi
    Bullspeed you're killin me. First you yourself jump on the board and say "Why is it that all the "Bush haters" don't care to recognize the fact that we have not had a successful act of terrorism take place in this country since Bush launched an all-out assault on terror" and then when DeceivedOne correctly points out the fact that there was an 8 year gap between successful acts of terrorism taking place in this country you, in typical neocon doublespeak, change this to "Oh yeah, and the (8) year gap in terrorist activity against Americans.."

    Ok that's fine. Let's change the discussion then. Americans are experiencing attacks against them on a daily basis in Iraq and other parts of the world. So the question that begs to be asked is.... How can you Bush cheerleaders not recognize the fact that we have had more acts of terrorism against Americans since he has been in the office of president than at any time in history? And how can you just sit back and not renounce the infringement upon the rights of the American people by this administration?

    The more prescient question is: How is it that, given the obvious porosity of our borders, there hasn't been a major attack on US soil? Just a few weeks ago, they discovered a tunnel of industrial proportions traversing the US-Mexican border. The thing was engineered with the expertise one would expect from the Army Corps Of Engineers.

    So, it would be a facile exercise for the "terrists" to come back and hit us again anytime. Cheney stated that unless Bush won the election, we would be hit again. I guess he's keeping his word.

  13. #13
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Well, I can't speak for all the "Bush haters", but I think I speak for those despise the policies of his administration when I say that's it's most likely because he's doing everything he can to make the event of another terrorist attack a likelihood.

    Whatever you call it, it can't possibly be a "war on terrorism".
    "he's doing everything he can to make the event of another terrorist attack a likelihood."
    -come on...even some of the staunch Bush detractors in Washington would have a problem with that one. He probably is not able to do everything he wants to stop another attack

    Let me give you just (2) "forgotten" examples of what happens if you take terrorists too lightly and sit back and wait and hope that radicals will leave us alone because we are not bothering them:

    It was 1987! At a lecture the other day they
    >>were playing an old
    >>>news video of Lt.Col. Oliver North testifying at the
    >>Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> There was Ollie in front of God and country
    >>getting the third
    >>>degree, but what he said was stunning!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> He was being drilled by a senator; "Did you not
    >>recently spend
    >>>close to $60,000 for a home security system?"
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out
    >>of the audience,
    >>>"Isn't that just a little excessive?"
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "No, sir," continued Ollie.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "No? And why not?" the senator asked.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Because the lives of my family and I were
    >>threatened, sir."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare
    >>you that much?"
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> At this point the senator tried to repeat the
    >>name, but couldn't
    >>>pronounce it, which most people back then probably
    >>couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt.
    >>Then the senator continued. Why are you so afraid of
    >>this man?" the senator asked.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive
    >>that I know of",
    >>>Ollie answered.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked
    >>the senator.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend
    >>that an assassin
    >>>team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face
    >>of the earth."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The senator disagreed with this approach, and that
    >>was all that was
    >>>shown of the clip.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> By the way, that senator was Al Gore!
    >>>
    As if that is not enough.................
    Terrorist pilot Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in
    >>Israel in 1986. The
    >>>Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of
    >>the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993,
    >>Israel had to agree to release so-called "political
    >>prisoners."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> However, the Israelis would not release any with
    >>blood on their
    >>>hands, The American President at the time, Bill Clinton,
    >>and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher,
    >>"insisted" that all prisoners be released.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Thus Mohammad Atta was freed and eventually
    >>thanked the US by
    >>>flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade
    >>Center . This was reported by many of the American TV
    >>networks at the time that the terrorists were first
    >>identified.
    >>>
    >>> It was censored in the US from all later reports.
    >>>
    >>>
    Maybe we should just sit back and wait for another attack to happen. What do you think?

  14. #14
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Whatever you call it, it can't possibly be a "war on terrorism".
    Chomsky: 'There Is No War On Terror'
    By Geov Parrish, AlterNet
    Posted on January 14, 2006, Printed on February 19, 2006

    http://www.alternet.org/story/30487/ for complete interview



    Parrish:
    In the War on Terror, however, how does one define victory against a tactic? You can't ever get there.
    Chomsky:
    There are metrics. For example, you can measure the number of terrorist attacks. Well, that's gone up sharply under the Bush administration, very sharply after the Iraq war. As expected -- it was anticipated by intelligence agencies that the Iraq war would increase the likelihood of terror. And the post-invasion estimates by the CIA, National Intelligence Council, and other intelligence agencies are exactly that. Yes, it increased terror. In fact, it even created something which never existed -- new training ground for terrorists, much more sophisticated than Afghanistan, where they were training professional terrorists to go out to their own countries.
    So, yeah, that's a way to deal with the War on Terror, namely, increase terror. And the obvious metric, the number of terrorist attacks, yeah, they've succeeded in increasing terror.The fact of the matter is that there is no War on Terror. It's a minor consideration. So invading Iraq and taking control of the world's energy resources was way more important than the threat of terror.
    Last edited by Phinnly Slash Buster; 02-19-2006 at 06:41 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bullspeed
    "he's doing everything he can to make the event of another terrorist attack a likelihood."
    -come on...even some of the staunch Bush detractors in Washington would have a problem with that one. He probably is not able to do everything he wants to stop another attack

    Let me give you just (2) "forgotten" examples of what happens if you take terrorists too lightly and sit back and wait and hope that radicals will leave us alone because we are not bothering them:

    It was 1987! At a lecture the other day they
    >>were playing an old
    >>>news video of Lt.Col. Oliver North testifying at the
    >>Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> There was Ollie in front of God and country
    >>getting the third
    >>>degree, but what he said was stunning!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> He was being drilled by a senator; "Did you not
    >>recently spend
    >>>close to $60,000 for a home security system?"
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out
    >>of the audience,
    >>>"Isn't that just a little excessive?"
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "No, sir," continued Ollie.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "No? And why not?" the senator asked.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Because the lives of my family and I were
    >>threatened, sir."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare
    >>you that much?"
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> At this point the senator tried to repeat the
    >>name, but couldn't
    >>>pronounce it, which most people back then probably
    >>couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt.
    >>Then the senator continued. Why are you so afraid of
    >>this man?" the senator asked.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive
    >>that I know of",
    >>>Ollie answered.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked
    >>the senator.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend
    >>that an assassin
    >>>team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face
    >>of the earth."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The senator disagreed with this approach, and that
    >>was all that was
    >>>shown of the clip.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> By the way, that senator was Al Gore!
    >>>
    As if that is not enough.................
    Terrorist pilot Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in
    >>Israel in 1986. The
    >>>Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of
    >>the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993,
    >>Israel had to agree to release so-called "political
    >>prisoners."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> However, the Israelis would not release any with
    >>blood on their
    >>>hands, The American President at the time, Bill Clinton,
    >>and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher,
    >>"insisted" that all prisoners be released.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Thus Mohammad Atta was freed and eventually
    >>thanked the US by
    >>>flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade
    >>Center . This was reported by many of the American TV
    >>networks at the time that the terrorists were first
    >>identified.
    >>>
    >>> It was censored in the US from all later reports.
    >>>
    >>>
    Maybe we should just sit back and wait for another attack to happen. What do you think?
    Great Stories bullspeed. Too bad that neither of them is true.

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.asp
    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/atta.htm

  16. #16
    sojustask's Avatar
    sojustask is offline The Late, Great Lady Mod - Retired User Rank
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    Re: BUSH vs terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi
    Great Stories bullspeed. Too bad that neither of them is true.

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.asp
    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/atta.htm
    Don't be too hard on him, these folks who drank the Bush Koolaide rarely check the validity of these stories before accepting them as the gospel truth, lol. They tend to believe that Disney and Microsoft pays whomever forwards their emails and that the Neman Marcus cookie recipe was some kind of secret too. :D

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

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