Reply to Thread

Post a reply to the thread: Which day is the true Sabbath?

Your Message

Click here to log in

 

Additional Options

  • Will turn www.example.com into [URL]http://www.example.com[/URL].

HTML
Rate Thread

You may rate this thread from 1-star (Terrible) to 5-stars (Excellent) if you wish to do so.

Topic Review (Newest First)

  • 02-06-2006, 09:18 AM
    lexx

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    by an by......this thing about the first and second coming(no porno allowed!!hehe!!or is it!?...is it what!?/when/where!?the sly man asks!?hehe!!)and who is the sly man prey tell!?by an by.....for the teacher will appear when the student gets his head outa his .........by an by....hehe!!moon amtrack why dont cha boy/girl!?hehe!!been done before i guess.....it's all been done before i guess!?LOOK!who are you protectin!?..........MYSELF!!of course!!.......ya right!?give it up!!get down ta the nitty gritty!!...........OK!!...dont hurt me!!i confess!it's all about the ........the........other guy..you know.....him/them/they/those/you name it!!IT"S not my FAULT!!D A M M I T !!.........there.ya satisfied now!?back off then!!get outa my face!!or ELSE!!now look what cha done!i missed the TRAIN!!hehe!!
  • 02-04-2006, 12:49 PM
    Rawb

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Hey Rawb, haven't seen you around in a while. I thought you knew by now that Jesus did not fulfil the Jewish prophecies (the ones in the Nevi'im) about what a messiah has to do--including being 100% human, no god or demigod status, and no second comings. That's why several messiah candidates were disqualified--they died before they fulfilled the prophecies.

    The short list (shamelessly stolen from R Stuart Federow):

    So how have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term Messiah?
    The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said.But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and God, rather than two HUMAN parents, as was Hercules, and Dionysis, as well as many other pagan gods.
    The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5). But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was God.
    The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10). But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.
    The Messiah cannot trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30). But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel.

    According to the Jewish definition of the term, the Real Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove because these changes take place in the real world. It is for this task that the real messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah -- one who is anointed. These changes, that one will be able to see and perceive in the real world, include:
    The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6), which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.
    The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14). But Jesus had no children.
    The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)
    The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of God is God (Isaiah 11:9). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9). It isn't.
    The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24). Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.
    The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28). It hasn't been rebuilt.
    There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30). People starve to death every day.
    After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8). People die every day.
    Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);
    The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;
    The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);
    All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);
    The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)
    Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);
    Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);
    The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)

    These Biblically based changes in the world are very real, very perceivable, very noticeable, and knowable. But the changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceivable at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one know that Jesus died for their sins, except by faith? How can one know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, except by the faith in the historical truth of the Christian's New Testament? There is no birth certificate. The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism are very provable, but the changes made by the Messiah, Jesus, according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.

    Even Christians recognize that none of the changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism as read in the Bible have not happened yet. This is why Christianity invented the idea of a Second Coming. The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things he must do the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.

    Cheers, mate!
    Hello CK,
    it is late for me, so I will try to be semi-coherent here.

    The difference between the first coming and the need for the second is explained in the Bible as well. The first coming of Jesus was as a lamb. A sacrifice for the sins of the world. The old Testament showed the sanctuary that Moses had constructed as God commanded, and the sacrifice of lambs was done to atone for the sins of whichever person committed the sins. The lambs in the old testament points us to the savior and His purpose the first time. He was sacrificed on the cross, rested in the tomb for the Sabbath, and arose on the first day of the week. When He ascended, He went to work in the Heavenly sanctuary, where He is to this day. The judging of the living is being conducted now. After 2300 days the Holy place of the sanctuary was cleansed, (the judgement of the dead was complete) and then Christ went from the Holy to the most Holy place in the Sanctuary. The earthly sanctuary was a model for the Heavenly one.

    Once the judgement of the living is complete, that is when Christ will say "It is finished" and prepare to return to earth to bring His faithful followers home with Him. The whole purpose of the second coming is to bring His faithful home to be with Him.

    Now that is my understanding of what the Bible is saying anyway. I will respond to the rest after I get some zzz here.
  • 02-04-2006, 12:28 PM
    Rawb

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by coontie
    I see you've had a fresh key-winding... Hope your spring holds out!
    LOL ! yeah, it must've been late when I typed that one. Time for some zzzzzzz
  • 02-03-2006, 05:11 AM
    coontie

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawb
    There is only one day which God sanctified as the Sabbath. No way for any of us to change that. God also gave us the freedom of choice. So in essence, you are correct Coontie. If we want to do things our way, any day will do. If we want to do God's will, there is only one Sabbath that was designated as such.

    We are to spend time with God everyday, but the Sabbath is a special day, different than the rest. It is the sign that shows who are God's people. If we follow the day as changed by man, rather than the one designated by God, we are in essence choosing man over God. And we are not being forced into this by God either. It is by our free will that we choose the day we set aside from everything else, to spend with God.
    I see you've had a fresh key-winding... Hope your spring holds out!
  • 02-02-2006, 11:11 AM
    Rawb

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by coontie
    Which day is the "True Sabbath"?; Any day one would like!
    There is only one day which God sanctified as the Sabbath. No way for any of us to change that. God also gave us the freedom of choice. So in essence, you are correct Coontie. If we want to do things our way, any day will do. If we want to do God's will, there is only one Sabbath that was designated as such.

    We are to spend time with God everyday, but the Sabbath is a special day, different than the rest. It is the sign that shows who are God's people. If we follow the day as changed by man, rather than the one designated by God, we are in essence choosing man over God. And we are not being forced into this by God either. It is by our free will that we choose the day we set aside from everything else, to spend with God.
  • 01-28-2006, 05:07 AM
    coontie

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Which day is the "True Sabbath"?; Any day one would like!
  • 01-26-2006, 02:25 AM
    Bob Loblaw

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Ah ... my 2 cents.

    The way I figure ... The Sabbath was set up for the Jews ... but after Christ's resurrection on Sunday combined with the fact that Gentiles were also thrown into the mix they began to meet on Sundays. The Jews also continued to meet on Saturday. I'd have to look it up but there are several texts referring to Christ appearring on the first day of the week. Collections were made on the first day of the week. Also, John mentions the LORD's day in Revelations which was on the first day of the week. Many have the opinion that Christ initiated this change by his example (always showing up on a Sunday) and to help both the Jews and Gentiles in a new era so to speak.

    Lots of varying opinions on this one. :)
  • 01-26-2006, 01:20 AM
    heatwaveo8

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Those statements about the Savior pertain to the Second Coming, not the first. The first has already happened, and the Second Coming is still to come.
  • 01-24-2006, 06:48 AM
    Rawb

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Hey Rawb, haven't seen you around in a while. I thought you knew by now that Jesus did not fulfil the Jewish prophecies (the ones in the Nevi'im) about what a messiah has to do--including being 100% human, no god or demigod status, and no second comings. That's why several messiah candidates were disqualified--they died before they fulfilled the prophecies.

    The short list (shamelessly stolen from R Stuart Federow):

    So how have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term Messiah?
    The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said.But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and God, rather than two HUMAN parents, as was Hercules, and Dionysis, as well as many other pagan gods.
    The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5). But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was God.
    The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10). But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.
    The Messiah cannot trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30). But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel.

    According to the Jewish definition of the term, the Real Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove because these changes take place in the real world. It is for this task that the real messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah -- one who is anointed. These changes, that one will be able to see and perceive in the real world, include:
    The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6), which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.
    The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14). But Jesus had no children.
    The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)
    The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of God is God (Isaiah 11:9). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9). It isn't.
    The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24). Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.
    The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28). It hasn't been rebuilt.
    There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30). People starve to death every day.
    After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8). People die every day.
    Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);
    The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;
    The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);
    All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);
    The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)
    Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);
    Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);
    The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)

    These Biblically based changes in the world are very real, very perceivable, very noticeable, and knowable. But the changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceivable at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one know that Jesus died for their sins, except by faith? How can one know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, except by the faith in the historical truth of the Christian's New Testament? There is no birth certificate. The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism are very provable, but the changes made by the Messiah, Jesus, according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.

    Even Christians recognize that none of the changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism as read in the Bible have not happened yet. This is why Christianity invented the idea of a Second Coming. The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things he must do the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.

    Cheers, mate!
    Hey CK, have been working like a slave the past few weeks. Haven't had much time. Before that, I have been spending a lot of time in the politics forum. It is amusing to say the least. Anyhow, I will respond to this when I get a little more time. Till then.
    Rawb
  • 01-23-2006, 11:49 AM
    lexx

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    ok ......complex.by your own admition.the messaih of your choice will make realchanges in the real world...........DUH!!is this not a christain decription of the second coming of the christ!?does this fit with all biblical prohecy!......DUH!! and yes!!i have been a student of a lot of jewish material of late THANKS to you!!and i due truly thank you for this gift!!my mind has been so opened to the meaning of the old testament!!and a side note is that it has also really opened my understanding of the new testament!!if only the jews would go there!!but alas,they have been held back by tradition and selfpreservation which of course i had hoped you would sermount!?but your life must be too well off or too well traditional with due sacrifice to seek the deep truths beyond your own chosen culture.for i have plumbed the depths of say the JWR and the rabbi's therin and found them at first instructional but then obstructional by their own advice!?for i have critiqued their own works by their own critiques and found them wanting of proofs!?hehe!so prove to me that you can spell god as g-d and not be afraid or ashamed by tradition or allegaince since god demands NO SUCH ALLEIGENCE!?hehe!!and certainly god has been trampled underfoot by you name it with what effect!?the unassembling of the universe!?what false hope is this and what weak defense of propriety and power over the common man is this!?sorry if this seems like an attack on your faith but consider this.......what is your faith really made of!imagined alliances and oaths or a real relationship with god!?only you can decide and only you can provide a self defense!?is god really offended by his name spelled out to be defiled!?or is this a myth to test the faith of true believers!?for what is true choice if not first to deny the very existence of same!?else what does true choice imply!?a preconditional fear!?you are free to choose.and god is love.so what where does the fear or expectaion of fear of default come in!?only you can answewr this for yourself or not.for to defy god is our given state.(the fall)so to recognize god is our given choice!?and while men will never agree on the law of god they most certainly will agree on the will of god as expressed by those who carry the christ within their hearts!?both to those who have the promise and too those who inherit the promise by faith!?so it behooves all that stand for god to give all they have to this goal set by god to convert all men to the promise of the creation made by him who is king and ruler of his kngdom to come!?for if one fell off and took many with him then it is by the promise that all who are of knowledge of this act by the one who replaced him devote their lives to the reclaiming without precedent other than the christ to the restoration of all who will come to the knowledge by our guidance to that world of eternal life with no reserve or qualification other than a refusal of all that we can offer unto death for him that went before us as son and savior because of our personal faith in same as learned by our spiritual leaders in this world................god!!that was a long rant!!hehe!!just askin!?hehe!!keep your reply short..huh!?
  • 01-22-2006, 12:56 PM
    ComplexKid

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Hey Rawb, haven't seen you around in a while. I thought you knew by now that Jesus did not fulfil the Jewish prophecies (the ones in the Nevi'im) about what a messiah has to do--including being 100% human, no god or demigod status, and no second comings. That's why several messiah candidates were disqualified--they died before they fulfilled the prophecies.

    The short list (shamelessly stolen from R Stuart Federow):

    So how have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term Messiah?
    The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said.But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and God, rather than two HUMAN parents, as was Hercules, and Dionysis, as well as many other pagan gods.
    The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5). But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was God.
    The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10). But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.
    The Messiah cannot trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30). But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel.

    According to the Jewish definition of the term, the Real Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove because these changes take place in the real world. It is for this task that the real messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah -- one who is anointed. These changes, that one will be able to see and perceive in the real world, include:
    The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6), which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.
    The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14). But Jesus had no children.
    The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)
    The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of God is God (Isaiah 11:9). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9). It isn't.
    The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24). Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.
    The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28). It hasn't been rebuilt.
    There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30). People starve to death every day.
    After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8). People die every day.
    Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);
    The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;
    The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);
    All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);
    The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)
    Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);
    Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);
    The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)

    These Biblically based changes in the world are very real, very perceivable, very noticeable, and knowable. But the changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceivable at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one know that Jesus died for their sins, except by faith? How can one know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, except by the faith in the historical truth of the Christian's New Testament? There is no birth certificate. The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism are very provable, but the changes made by the Messiah, Jesus, according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.

    Even Christians recognize that none of the changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism as read in the Bible have not happened yet. This is why Christianity invented the idea of a Second Coming. The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things he must do the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.

    Cheers, mate!
  • 01-22-2006, 10:57 AM
    Rawb

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    Well, who is to say that any one beleief is wrong (guess I learned something).

    Although in my beleief, we use the day of Sunday.

    I guess as long as one day is set aside, then that's all that matters.

    Also "we" beleive that it's not only on the "day of rest" to "keep it holy", but one should be always seeking to "try to live a holy life".

    Not only "one" day of the week, but all of the days of the week.
    Actually, when it comes to the Sabbath day, it does matter. There was only one day blessed and sanctified by God as the Sabbath. No man can change that, and God won't change it either.

    You are right on the every day of the week trying to live a holy life. By Christ's example, we learn and change to become more like Him. But what I meant was a day set aside as different and special from all the others. This is why the Sabbath is important. It will come down to choosing between God and man once the Sunday laws are enforced. (Interesting that it would be forced). Goes to show that it definitely won't be one of God's laws.

    God certainly doesn't force us to worship Him. Everyone has free will. It is a choice. God wants us to serve Him out of Love. We choose whether we will follow Him or not.
  • 01-22-2006, 10:49 AM
    Rawb

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by leonjr1964
    Speaking on a couple of subjects....
    Independant, fundamental Baptists believe that Saturday is the 7th Day or Sabbath. They attend Church on Sunday because of many examples in the Bible where God commanded the first day to be for him. He also commanded the first of many things belong to him.
    The "anti-christ" as the name implies, is the opposite of Christ. Son of Satan incarnate. Just as Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnate. For each member of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost), there is an opposite (Satan, Anti-christ, False Prophet) seen in Revelation 16:13. The Satanic Trinity.
    Not getting into a Theological debate here. Just providing another point of view.
    Could you point me to where it says in the Bible that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh day to the first day ? We all know that God never changes. The Sabbath was sanctified by God as Holy and the day of rest. Never has changed. Only Constantine implemented the Lord's Day as Sunday. We can go to church any day of the week, and worship every day of the week. But there is only one Sabbath, which we are to remember and keep Holy. It is a sign of our obedience to God. If we acknowledge the first day as the Sabbath, a day observed by man, over the seventh day, the day blessed and sanctified by God, how will it be when we face the forced Sunday laws legislation ? Sunday laws are already in place, but not enforced. It will come down to choosing God or man when the time comes. This is why it is important to recognize the difference now.
  • 01-22-2006, 10:42 AM
    Rawb

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Messianic Judaism is basically Southern Baptist theology with some Jewish symbols thrown in; it's the Southern Baptists who spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year to keep it going. It's not a recognised form of Judaism by any form of Judaism or by the State of Israel. Messianics are legally Christians, they cannot go to live in Israel under the right of return. If you believe that Jesus was a god or a demigod, or that any other human was, is, or could be a god or a demigod then you're not a Jew, as we believe that no person could ever be G-d, and that G-d is one.

    I'm renewal myself, which is, I think, the smallest recognised branch of Judaism (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Renewal being the lot, and actually a whole lot closer theologically than most non-Jewish folks might realise).

    The Jewish messiah has not yet come. He will be a mortal man, and he brings peace to all nations, along with lots of other good things--you don't need to 'believe in' the messiah, because it'll be obvious who he is when he gets here--by his deeds. Nor would anyone worship the messiah, worship is reserved for Hashem alone.

    We don't have an apocalyptic theology. We believe that there is someone born in every generation who is qualified to be the Messiah, if we did but get our act together. He will come when humanity is well on its way to repairing the world--and healing the world is one of the biggest things that Judaism is about.

    We believe that all religions have something to bring to the table in this task, ours is stuff like--survival in exile, environmental sensitivity, any number of things that date back to the Torah (one of our holy days celebrates the creation of trees--because they give so much to sustain life).

    The way we see it, the more good we do, the more it tips the world's scales in favour of survival (logical when you think about it), and the more good it creates more or less by contagion, if you will. And the Messiah and the messianic age will happen when we're ready for the earth to be the Garden of Eden once more.

    We don't have a concept of personal salvation, nor is there dogma about an afterlife, though most of us believe in reincarnation. We don't proselytise, as there is no need for anyone to be Jewish to live a good life or to know G-d, and there is no 'supernatural' or 'afterlife' penalty for anyone, regardless of what they do or don't believe.

    We believe that Hashem is good, and we believe that the laws exist so that we can live in an ethical and civilised way--hopefully healing the damage in the world and at the very least not causing harm.

    Short version anyway :)
    So you mentioned the Jewish Messiah has not yet come ? From what you described as the Messiah, how did Jesus not fit that description ? He was also a Jew. The miracles that He performed would have testified of His power, but He came first as a lamb, next He will come as a lion. I think the Jews were thinking the Lion would come first, then the lamb. The Jews were seeking relief from the Roman oppression, who as you mentioned, were severely pillaging and killing many Jews. So it is totally understandable that the Jews wanted a redeemer (or the lion) to deliver them from the Romans then.
  • 12-30-2005, 08:22 PM
    Lizard Slayer

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Lizard Slayer--what it says is to remember and guard the Sabbath, but again, that only applies to Jews as a commandment, not to anyone else. Though anyone is permtted to observe Shabbat

    Here's the reason it's different to the other days: It's not that you shouldn't be mindful of G-d on other days, but osn other days, you work in the world, you create things, you do things to earn a living, etc.

    On Shabbat, you cease from work. You don't attempt to create or manipulate the material world around you. On the seventh day, G-d created--rest. And the reason we remember and guard is because we need to stop creating for one day, too--the world can manage just fine, and we need to remember that it's not all in our hands (work is permitted to save lives and in emergencies and such, and you don't neglect the kids or anything, but Shabbat is not a day you go out to earn a living). It is a gift from G-d that one day a week we get to rest, to enjoy all that He created for us, be especially grateful for everything He's given us, and realise we don't constantly have to 'make' stuff ourselves.

    It doesn't mean you forget G-d on the other days. It does mean that Shabbat is a day devoted to holiness alone, and not a day when you try to further yourself in a material sense. Nothing wrong with work, there are six days you can do it. Just one day, you're supposed to stop and really appreciate the world around you, all that you have, and the One from whom all blessings come.
    CK,

    I have appreciated your input and I respect your beliefs. This is why I tried to address the question from a Christian perspective. As you have said, Christians are not under the law.

    We really don’t have all of the answers, that is why we must have faith. I have faith in the one true G-d and his promise, this aspect of faith unites our beliefs.
  • 12-30-2005, 07:52 PM
    ComplexKid

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Lizard Slayer--what it says is to remember and guard the Sabbath, but again, that only applies to Jews as a commandment, not to anyone else. Though anyone is permtted to observe Shabbat

    Here's the reason it's different to the other days: It's not that you shouldn't be mindful of G-d on other days, but osn other days, you work in the world, you create things, you do things to earn a living, etc.

    On Shabbat, you cease from work. You don't attempt to create or manipulate the material world around you. On the seventh day, G-d created--rest. And the reason we remember and guard is because we need to stop creating for one day, too--the world can manage just fine, and we need to remember that it's not all in our hands (work is permitted to save lives and in emergencies and such, and you don't neglect the kids or anything, but Shabbat is not a day you go out to earn a living). It is a gift from G-d that one day a week we get to rest, to enjoy all that He created for us, be especially grateful for everything He's given us, and realise we don't constantly have to 'make' stuff ourselves.

    It doesn't mean you forget G-d on the other days. It does mean that Shabbat is a day devoted to holiness alone, and not a day when you try to further yourself in a material sense. Nothing wrong with work, there are six days you can do it. Just one day, you're supposed to stop and really appreciate the world around you, all that you have, and the One from whom all blessings come.
This thread has more than 16 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •