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  • 04-03-2010, 06:14 AM
    thistle

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    I stand corrected. Mom isn't going to be just fine is often the case. I counsel lots of men and women who have gone through an abortion that has left them in turmoil and maybe not right away but years later. I'm sorry to have sounded so callous because it is rarely a decision that anyone wants to be faced with, let alone make. Sometimes it's very difficult to make these abortion-wounded women and men come to terms with it and forgive themselves.
    I want to also apologize if I gave you the wrong impression:I know you're not championing abortion-I didn't mean to make it sound that way.
    It's cool, my point really is just that as a man I don't feel qualified to mess with someone elses rights over their body. I can imagine many countries and organised religions would have entirely different views on abortion of it were men who gave birth ;-)
  • 04-02-2010, 05:40 PM
    HotParadox

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    =) I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. I knew you said think. I'm pretty sure we are not trying to score argument points.:spin2:
    Yeah, I just wanted to be sure you knew I wasn't sure. :bunny:
  • 04-02-2010, 05:34 PM
    Spector567

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    Yeah, I actually said "I think MA has a pregnancy rate neck and neck with the rest of the US..." but, there you go, then your theory is correct in MA.
    =) I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. I knew you said think. I'm pretty sure we are not trying to score argument points.:spin2:
  • 04-02-2010, 05:12 PM
    HotParadox

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I agree that shouldn't be done. I personally do not promote abortion at all. Hence why I look so hard for the actual causes of the problem. I also think it's fairly stupid for any child to be making such a huge life altering decisision alone. I cannot image that parents pain.


    You mentioned earlier that MA was neck and neck with the US average. This peaked my interest since this was contrary to previous evidence I've seen.

    I found that Mass actually has about half the national average.
    (the 11th lowest in fact) So I think the logic still holds true proper sex education decreases teen pregnancy rates. I think we can both agree that this is a good thing.

    http://www.massteenpregnancy.org/res...nd-birth-rates

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/state...achusetts.html
    http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/n...f/STBYST07.pdf
    Yeah, I actually said "I think MA has a pregnancy rate neck and neck with the rest of the US..." but, there you go, then your theory is correct in MA.
    Still, like you, I think the school acting on behalf of a pregnant child behind the parents' backs...that's horrible. Imo, anyways.
  • 04-02-2010, 04:37 PM
    Spector567

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    No way, at least not in New England. If fact, they teach everything but abstinence. My kids never learned abstinence in school. They learned it from me, along with everything else regarding sex stuff.
    My kids can't get an aspirin without my consent at school. But if they find themselves pregnant no matter how young they happen to be, they can get a school rep to bring them to an abortion clinic without the parent knowing their 12 year old daughter is pregnant and on her way to having an abortion. Pity the mother who gets a call from the clinic that says, "Come see your Suzie. She is hemoraging from her abortion." Don't think it's happened? To one of my best friends, it sure did.

    Thank God, they don't give the kids an aspirin, though, without the parent's consent.
    I agree that shouldn't be done. I personally do not promote abortion at all. Hence why I look so hard for the actual causes of the problem. I also think it's fairly stupid for any child to be making such a huge life altering decisision alone. I cannot image that parents pain.


    You mentioned earlier that MA was neck and neck with the US average. This peaked my interest since this was contrary to previous evidence I've seen.

    I found that Mass actually has about half the national average.
    (the 11th lowest in fact) So I think the logic still holds true proper sex education decreases teen pregnancy rates. I think we can both agree that this is a good thing.

    http://www.massteenpregnancy.org/res...nd-birth-rates

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/state...achusetts.html
    http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/n...f/STBYST07.pdf
  • 04-02-2010, 04:23 PM
    HotParadox

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Mom isnt going to be just fine, necessarily. But hey, I'm not championing abortion as a solution to anything, best that noone ever had one. But for a man - me and I assume pwrone - to tell a woman what to do with her body, it just wouldnt fly the other way round.

    As for the human being in her body, yes, but until born it is her body, her life, her fetus, not my place to force my opinion.
    I stand corrected. Mom isn't going to be just fine is often the case. I counsel lots of men and women who have gone through an abortion that has left them in turmoil and maybe not right away but years later. I'm sorry to have sounded so callous because it is rarely a decision that anyone wants to be faced with, let alone make. Sometimes it's very difficult to make these abortion-wounded women and men come to terms with it and forgive themselves.
    I want to also apologize if I gave you the wrong impression:I know you're not championing abortion-I didn't mean to make it sound that way.
  • 04-02-2010, 04:05 PM
    HotParadox

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    True but with respect I thought sex-ed in the united states was Abstinence only policy. The Bush administration banned any ******* for anything but abstinence.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the united states gets anywhere near the level that other countries do.

    Maybe that changed in the last year or was different before bush changed the rules to appease the overally religious.

    No way, at least not in New England. If fact, they teach everything but abstinence. My kids never learned abstinence in school. They learned it from me, along with everything else regarding sex stuff.
    My kids can't get an aspirin without my consent at school. But if they find themselves pregnant no matter how young they happen to be, they can get a school rep to bring them to an abortion clinic without the parent knowing their 12 year old daughter is pregnant and on her way to having an abortion. Pity the mother who gets a call from the clinic that says, "Come see your Suzie. She is hemoraging from her abortion." Don't think it's happened? To one of my best friends, it sure did.

    Thank God, they don't give the kids an aspirin, though, without the parent's consent.
  • 04-02-2010, 03:06 PM
    Spector567

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    Yeah, I hear you, Spector. I think MA has a pregnancy rate neck and neck with the rest of the US, and sex ed is in place in every public school from an early age, maybe 11, if memory serves me. I think the parents need to address this one, as well as the schools, tbh. Sex ed hasn't done much here, AFAIK.
    True but with respect I thought sex-ed in the united states was Abstinence only policy. The Bush administration banned any ******* for anything but abstinence.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the united states gets anywhere near the level that other countries do.

    Maybe that changed in the last year or was different before bush changed the rules to appease the overally religious.


    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
    Not true at all.


    The idea that kids are too stupid to understand the concept of contraception is the excuse that liberals use to explain why kids don't care.

    It may seem--as do many liberal 'thoughts' upon initial reflection-- like a good idea to teach more sex-ed than we do (we do, you know) but when liberals get ahold of it they naturally pervert it immediately.


    That is how you get a mincing, drooling NAMBLA supporter as 'safe-schools czar'.

    Thanks, libs!
    With respect Pwrone you are the only one in this forum who associates sex-ed with nambla who's perverting what? I think you have some issues. Please stay at least 150 from a school at all time.

    In short pwrone. You can’t change the subject with a silly insult. You screwed up again. America has the WORST record on abortion and you called everyone else baby murder. You were wrong again.

    In fact America Murders more babies than any other country in this forum. Good job Baby Murder.

    Keep putting your personal opinion ahead of reality and eventually you’ll be able to hum your way out of a discussion. (or insult as you seem to prefer).

    In short pwrone if it’s not America’s overall lack of sex eduction what is it?
    Why does your country have the HIGHEST abortion rate of any country on this forum?

    Why does your country have the HIGHEST teen pregnancy rate?

    Why can other countries have less strict laws on abortion and still have a MUCH lower rate than you?

    Why do you feel that you can look down on other countries on abortion when you can’t even control your own?

    Are the people in these more liberal countries just smarter and more moral than America?

    I personally was just going to attribute it to sex education but if you have another idea that you can back up go ahead.

    I think we’ve all seen how good your insults are.

    Please stop making choices for others based on your un-founded personal opinion.
  • 04-02-2010, 02:57 PM
    HotParadox

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post

    It is a personal thing however the solutions are logical.


    As you can see more secular nations have tanken the steps to teach there citizens about contraceptive measures, family planning and sex education.

    The united states has not and will not for only one reason. The far Religious right have the mis-guided idea that by forcing schools not to do this they make them more moral.......

    In reality what they are doing are making a generation of kids who think they can avoid getting pregnant by pulling out fast enough.

    You'll notice by the teen pregnancy numbers I posted earlier that the current strategy is failing miserably and has made the united states #1 in teen pregnancy and has given it the highest abortion rate compared to other mainstream countries.Make all the laws and protests you want. If you don't stop a problem at it source it's like stopping a flood with a single board. You can't.


    The current strategy makes governments look good and the religious feel good but does nothing but make the problem worse.
    Yeah, I hear you, Spector. I think MA has a pregnancy rate neck and neck with the rest of the US, and sex ed is in place in every public school from an early age, maybe 11, if memory serves me. I think the parents need to address this one, as well as the schools, tbh. Sex ed hasn't done much here, AFAIK.
  • 04-02-2010, 09:19 AM
    LogicallyYours

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    I would have thought, as a member of NAMBLA, you would be all for sex ed?
  • 04-02-2010, 06:54 AM
    pwrone

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post

    It is a personal thing however the solutions are logical.


    As you can see more secular nations have tanken the steps to teach there citizens about contraceptive measures, family planning and sex education.

    The united states has not and will not for only one reason. The far Religious right have the mis-guided idea that by forcing schools not to do this they make them more moral.......

    In reality what they are doing are making a generation of kids who think they can avoid getting pregnant by pulling out fast enough.

    You'll notice by the teen pregnancy numbers I posted earlier that the current strategy is failing miserably and has made the united states #1 in teen pregnancy and has given it the highest abortion rate compared to other mainstream countries.Make all the laws and protests you want. If you don't stop a problem at it source it's like stopping a flood with a single board. You can't.


    The current strategy makes governments look good and the religious feel good but does nothing but make the problem worse.


    Not true at all.


    The idea that kids are too stupid to understand the concept of contraception is the excuse that liberals use to explain why kids don't care.

    It may seem--as do many liberal 'thoughts' upon initial reflection-- like a good idea to teach more sex-ed than we do (we do, you know) but when liberals get ahold of it they naturally pervert it immediately.


    That is how you get a mincing, drooling NAMBLA supporter as 'safe-schools czar'.

    Thanks, libs!




    /
  • 04-02-2010, 05:34 AM
    thistle

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    Abortion is perfectly legal, by law it is not murder and it is completely within her rights for a woman to choose life or not.
    But...it is a human being in her body. She is making a decision not about her body, but about the fate of that human being in her body. It's about the fate of another body. Mom is going to be just fine.
    Mom isnt going to be just fine, necessarily. But hey, I'm not championing abortion as a solution to anything, best that noone ever had one. But for a man - me and I assume pwrone - to tell a woman what to do with her body, it just wouldnt fly the other way round.

    As for the human being in her body, yes, but until born it is her body, her life, her fetus, not my place to force my opinion.
  • 04-02-2010, 03:32 AM
    Spector567

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    True. And the US is a much more Christian-oriented nation then most European nations, I think, which makes for the case that choosing life can be as much a moral decision as it is a religious one. Plenty of atheists that I personally know are pro-life. It's such a personal thing. Am I wrong?

    It is a personal thing however the solutions are logical.


    As you can see more secular nations have tanken the steps to teach there citizens about contraceptive measures, family planning and sex education.

    The united states has not and will not for only one reason. The far Religious right have the mis-guided idea that by forcing schools not to do this they make them more moral.......

    In reality what they are doing are making a generation of kids who think they can avoid getting pregnant by pulling out fast enough.

    You'll notice by the teen pregnancy numbers I posted earlier that the current strategy is failing miserably and has made the united states #1 in teen pregnancy and has given it the highest abortion rate compared to other mainstream countries.Make all the laws and protests you want. If you don't stop a problem at it source it's like stopping a flood with a single board. You can't.


    The current strategy makes governments look good and the religious feel good but does nothing but make the problem worse.
  • 04-02-2010, 12:29 AM
    peregrine

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
    True. And the US is a much more Christian-oriented nation then most European nations, I think, which makes for the case that choosing life can be as much a moral decision as it is a religious one. Plenty of atheists that I personally know are pro-life. It's such a personal thing. Am I wrong?
    No...you know I'm an atheist but I am also pro life.
  • 04-01-2010, 09:37 PM
    HotParadox

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza View Post
    Just to add to that Spector...


    In Europe, where "baby-killin' is a sport" and "like 50% [are] murdered", they also have much lower abortion rates than the US.

    I guess that's just cause they suck at sport though.

    Annual abortions per 1000 adolescents:
    USA: 27.5
    France: 10.2
    Germany: 5.6
    Netherlands: 4.2

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/pregadol.htm

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...ons-per-capita

    Sorry pwrone, but the statistics here completely and utterly refute the argument that evil, liberal Europe is just going around having abortions left, right and center. Almost every single European country has a lower abortion rate than the USA.
    True. And the US is a much more Christian-oriented nation then most European nations, I think, which makes for the case that choosing life can be as much a moral decision as it is a religious one. Plenty of atheists that I personally know are pro-life. It's such a personal thing. Am I wrong?
  • 04-01-2010, 06:21 PM
    HotParadox

    Re: Filth Push Baby-Murder on World, World Appalle

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Yeah, cos thats how it works. Evil people doing their best to convince women to abort. Yeah.

    My basic view on abortion, and many peoples, is that its a great shame there are any at all. But I'm never going to tell any woman what she can and cant do within the law with her own body. And it is HER body.

    I would love to see your reaction if you suddenly found the world and his (religiously motivated) dog telling you what you could and could not do with your body.

    This from a man who usually starts a thread with "kill 'em all" or similar. But theyre all "filth", arent they lol.
    Abortion is perfectly legal, by law it is not murder and it is completely within her rights for a woman to choose life or not.
    But...it is a human being in her body. She is making a decision not about her body, but about the fate of that human being in her body. It's about the fate of another body. Mom is going to be just fine.
    It's about the terminology that gets me going. It's about the softening of what it really is that leaves me numb.
    I wish that women would be more pro-active and less reactive when another human being's life is involved.
    For many people, me included, this is not a religious view but, rather, a moral view.
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