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  #127  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:21 PM
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sojustask sojustask is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegulationE
The majority of 18 year olds who live at home and play their video games whilemom and dada pay the bills would definetly qualify as "kids". There are many that attend college that are going away forthe first time that would qualify as "kids".

Young men and women make decisions on their own, whether we as parents like the decision or not they have the right in just about every state to do so. The majority of the young men and women I have meet who join the military are far from being "kids".

The majority of the ones I have meet who enlist understand life, even if they have not lived it much yet. They understand that each decision they make has positives and negatives. They are not your typical teen ager who still believes the world owes them something.
And I've met a lot of them that barely qualify as being adults. They go straight out of high school and into the military. And though they don't have the "world owes me a living" attitude, they still are kids in many other respects.

Quote:
While it is sad we have deaths the average age of a casualty in Iraq is nearly 27. Not the 18 year old enlistee as it is implied here on this board. The majority of the troops fighting in Iraq are Reservists and National Guard who tend to be older.

We recruit too young. We target highschools because kids must go to high school. College has always been optional. Do you really think we would have so many volunteers if we didn't allow the military to do their pitches to 17 year olds in 11th grade? That's not even graduates.

But we are degressing. Dante's post was only a comment that our own troops death toll contains a lot of YOUNG (kids) people to add to the count of children.

The question posed by the thread was whether or not American troops were indeed terrorizing women and CHILDREN. Needlessly, I would presume?

Lady Mod


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  #128  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:27 PM
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sojustask sojustask is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmarketing
Well, I don't know if you know it or not, but on Military Installations drinking age is 18.
At all of the clubs, and even the stores will sell to active duty (or reserve) at 18 years old.



Actually yes.

In fact we even went theough the "Gas House", which is where we had to prepair for a chemical attack.
Taking another humans life is a very serious thing, however when confronted with it in reality you would be suprised how even you yourself would act.



Rest assured that after boot camp you are a difrent person than when you went in.
In fact boot camp was the most dificult thing I have even endured, maybe because I went Airborne?
I was an Airborne Ranger, and let me tell you it was no walk in the park, I saw people that went in with me totally go crazy cause they couldn't handle the pressure, I see them now (some of them) and they have good jobs and families etc, but they just couldn't take it.



SJA I totally understand what you are saying, and I see your and dante's points, but you need to see mine as well.

Next time you see a young solder, ask them if they feel like an adult or not, and I will lay you odds that 8 out of 10 you ask will say adult.

Trust me on this SJA I have been there, I know what I am talking about from experience.
I do see your point. I think we've gotten off topic though, lol. I see a lot of soldiers, there are bases all over the area here. Airforce, marine and army. I think that if you ask any 18 year old if they FEEL like an adult you will get a postive confirmation of that 8 our of 10 times. I was asking if they feel that they are TREATED as an adult. And I think 8 our of 10 times you will hear a negative confirmation to that question.

Anyway, maybe we should get back on topic? ;)

Lady Mod

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  #129  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:31 PM
jmclaughtx jmclaughtx is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
"Squaak squaak....Polly wanna cracker. Squaak... Polly wanna cracker" --Jimclaughtx
A personal attack when one can not dispute the facts?

How interesting.

2nd chance Dante, Can you dispute the mass graves and the atrocities that were committed under the Saddam regime?

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  #130  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:34 PM
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hdmarketing hdmarketing is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sojustask
I do see your point. I think we've gotten off topic though, lol. I see a lot of soldiers, there are bases all over the area here. Airforce, marine and army. I think that if you ask any 18 year old if they FEEL like an adult you will get a postive confirmation of that 8 our of 10 times. I was asking if they feel that they are TREATED as an adult. And I think 8 our of 10 times you will hear a negative confirmation to that question.

Anyway, maybe we should get back on topic? ;)

Lady Mod

I thought I was on topic, I was talking about the point of calling our troops "Kids".

They are NOT "Kids" and the are not treated as such.
Most of them don't feel as though they are treated as such either.

Look at the SJA, they have cars, lots and lots of them here at Ft.Huachuca AZ are even living in brand new homes they are having built (yes 18-25 year old range).
We have an entire sub division about two blocks away from our home that is almost entirely made up of 18-25 year old active duty enlistees.

I hardly think any of them think they are still treated like "Kids".

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  #131  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:37 PM
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sojustask sojustask is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmarketing
I thought I was on topic, I was talking about the point of calling our troops "Kids".

They are NOT "Kids" and the are not treated as such.
Most of them don't feel as though they are treated as such either.

Look at the SJA, they have cars, lots and lots of them here at Ft.Huachuca AZ are even living in brand new homes they are having built (yes 18-25 year old range).
We have an entire sub division about two blocks away from our home that is almost entirely made up of 18-25 year old active duty enlistees.

I hardly think any of them think they are still treated like "Kids".

OK, you have something to point to in your area I do not. So, there is no reason to continue that debate. I conceed the point.

However, what one person might consider an adult another (many in fact) would consider a kid.

That was really the only point I was trying to clarify with my post. And I believe that was basically the point that dante was making in his post.

Namaste'

Lady Mod

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  #132  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:37 PM
jmclaughtx jmclaughtx is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

And to answer the Lady Mods question. No, our soldiers are not terrorizing women and children. They are being terrorized by their own who in cooperation with the foreign fighters are trying to instill fear into the hearts of the people. Most of the bombs that explode in Iraq are targeting civilians, then our troops arrive to secure the scene and that is what the photographers take into their pictures. I am not saying innocent civilians do not get mistakenly killed by US hardware, this is a war and it does happen. But it is the rare occasion and not the norm as would be painted by some of the left in this country.

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  #133  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:51 PM
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hdmarketing hdmarketing is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sojustask
OK, you have something to point to in your area I do not. So, there is no reason to continue that debate. I conceed the point.

However, what one person might consider an adult another (many in fact) would consider a kid.

That was really the only point I was trying to clarify with my post. And I believe that was basically the point that dante was making in his post.

Namaste'

Lady Mod
Ok I agree, it's like the old preverbial "one mans junk is another's treasure", but I think it would be more "Politically Correct" to just say U.S. Troops, and not call them "Kids".

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  #134  
Old 12-26-2005, 06:10 PM
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmclaughtx
A personal attack when one can not dispute the facts?

How interesting.

2nd chance Dante, Can you dispute the mass graves and the atrocities that were committed under the Saddam regime?
Your "facts" are simply pro-war diversionary points implanted in your mind by the Bush Regime's corporate media flunkies.They are "after the fact" excuses meant to dilute critical analysis and public indignation at Bush's lies. Why did the Reagan gang (many of whom are working in the Bush Regime today) eagerly provide such copious tangible support to Saddam during the days he was allegedly committing so many of those atrocities? If we are so offended by that conduct now, why was it A-OK then? Sorry, your moralizing propaganda rings hollow.

It's true enough that it's an ugly world...all over, not just in Iraq. But we can not afford to try and remake The World in our image with military force.


"Ok, there were no WMD.s. But... but..but What about the Rape Rooms and the ,...the ..Shallow graves..and uh uh..yeah..Abu Ghraib??..ooops- Wait a minute. Never mind that one"...

They are totally irrelevant. There were over a million bodies found in shallow graves in Rwanda and Burundi. Shoudn't we have sent our kids over there to get embrolied in their meat grinder of a civil war then? Huh? There are horrors being committed to this day in sub-Saharan Africa that make Saddam's Iraq look like a Club Med. Shouldn't we intercede?

No..because your premise is bullsh!t on its face and no more than an ex post facto excuse and a lame qualification to cover up Bush's exposed, lying, war criminal ass. We can not afford to be the cops of The Planet. Running a police state here is about all the The Bush Regime is really equipped to handle.


Last edited by dante : 12-26-2005 at 06:36 PM.
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  #135  
Old 12-26-2005, 06:32 PM
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RegulationE RegulationE is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
No..because your premise is bullsh!t on its face and no more than an ex post facto excuse and a lame qualification to cover up Bush's exposed, lying, war criminal ass. We can not afford to be the cops of The Planet. Running a police state here is about all the The Bush Regime is really equipped to handle.
Simply because you are wrong, does not mean everyone else is. You make claims like the one above, yet have not offered anything to provide proof of your position. Nothing more then worn out tired far left liberal conspiracy theories with no proof to back it up.

I shall quote you again so not to violate any rules here.

Your tired campaign that Bush lied in an attempt to discredit this administration and there by this country is
Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
...bullsh!t...
and has be proven wrong through independant investigations.

You continue to listen to the screams of the
Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
...shrill little wh0res and flunkies...
From the far left and never seem to pay attention to what is really going on in the world.

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  #136  
Old 12-26-2005, 06:35 PM
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catch-22 catch-22 is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
Your "facts" are simply apro-war diversionary points implanted in your mind by the Bush Regime's corporate media flunkies.They are "after the fact" excuses meant to dilute critical analysis and public indignation at Bush's lies. Why did the Reagan crew provide copious support to Saddam if we are so offended by this conduct?

It's true enough that it's an ugly world...all over, not just in Iraq. But we can not afford to try and remake The World in our image with military force.


"Ok, there were no WMD.s. But... but..but What about the Rape Rooms and the ,...the ..Shallow graves..and uh uh..yeah..Abu Ghraib??..ooops- Wait a minute. Never mind that one"...

They are totally irrelevant. There were over a million bodies found in shallow graves in Rwanda and Burundi. Shoudn't we have sent our kids over there to get embrolied in their meat grinder of a civil war then? Huh?

No..because your premise is bullsh!t on its face and no more than an ex post facto excuse and a lame qualification to cover up Bush's exposed, lying, war criminal ass. We can not afford to be the cops of The Planet. Running a police state here is about all the The Bush Regime is really equipped to handle.
This is where your whole argument falls down, whoever you are! We cannot afford NOT to put ourselves up as 'cops of the planet' as you say. We are strong, we are powerful, we have the ability and we have the obligation to protect the rights of human beings anywhere on the planet. Its about human rights, dante. Its a huge battle but its one worth fighting. Without someone willing to step forward and protect others, what chance do any of us have?

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  #137  
Old 12-26-2005, 06:42 PM
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dante dante is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch-22
This is where your whole argument falls down, whoever you are! We cannot afford NOT to put ourselves up as 'cops of the planet' as you say. We are strong, we are powerful, we have the ability and we have the obligation to protect the rights of human beings anywhere on the planet. Its about human rights, dante. Its a huge battle but its one worth fighting. Without someone willing to step forward and protect others, what chance do any of us have?
Please don't lecture us about "civil rights" as The Bush regime continues to run its CIA torture gulags throughout The World. There was a time not that long ago in this country when a Black person could face a lynch mob simply for having relations with a White woman, for being accused of theft or could be imprisoned for trying to escape slavery. There was a time not long ago when Native Americans were hunted like animal prey. Shouldn't we have been invaded militarily by France or maybe Britain in order to put an end to it? You people are such brain dead hypocrites. It really makes me laugh. Thanks


Last edited by dante : 12-26-2005 at 06:47 PM.
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  #138  
Old 12-26-2005, 06:52 PM
jmclaughtx jmclaughtx is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
Your "facts" aren't facts. These are pro-war diversionary points implanted in your "brain" by the Bush Regime's right-wing media flunkies as "after the fact" excuses meant to dilute critical analysis and public indignation at Bush's lies. It's true enough that it's an ugly world...all over, not just in Iraq. But we can not afford to try and remake The World in our image with military force.


"Ok, there were no WMD.s. But... but..but what about the rape rooms and the ,...the ..shallow graves..and uh uh..Abu Ghraib??..ooops- Wait a minute. Never mind that one"...

They are totally irrelevant. There were over a million bodies found in shallow graves in Rwanda and Burundi. Shoudn't we have sent our kids over there to get embrolied in their meat grinder of a civil war then? Huh?

No..because your premise is bullsh!t on its face and no more than an ex post facto excuse and a lame qualification to cover up Bush's exposed, lying, war criminal ass. We can not afford to be the cops of The Planet. Running a police state here is about all the The Bush Regime is really equipped to handle.
I feel like I am reading the talking points from the Moveon.org bloggers.

A Pro-war diversionary point still qualifies as a fact as presented by the UN.

Your statement of But we can not afford to try and remake The World in our image with military force.

But neither can we sit here and having our buildings fall around us due to terror attacks. So why not plant a democracy right in the heart of Terror Central. Twenty five years from now we will have a better sense of this and how it played out.

As far as the WMD's, do I need to quote every Democratic Senator, Representative, President and Presidential Candidates from the late 1980's through the 1990's who thought these weapon systems existed in larger quanitities than they actually did as well. Do I need to quote French, Russian, British and US Intelligence reports as well. Do I need to post pictures of the victims of the gas attacks upon the Kurds (no, because someone would try to blame those on US Soldiers as well).

Do you even acknowledge that we are in a war againest terrorists? Were we attacked on 9/11 by terrorists? How about the Khobar Towers? How about the USS Cole?

Saddam was a ruthless dictator that had slaughtered his own people, invaded other countries leaving thousands of missing and unaccounted for in Kuwaite, had existing missle systems, had WMD programs on hold, was actively seeking the means to further his nuclear goals, paid palestinian families of suicide bombers, etc, etc, etc. He needed to be relieved of his position in the region, and he was.

As far as Bush being a war criminal, that is laughable at best and sad at its worst that the leftist movement in this country truly believes that. But that is why they are not winning elections. I understand the balance, it takes moderates from both right and left to balance the extremes.


Last edited by jmclaughtx : 12-26-2005 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Grammar
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  #139  
Old 12-26-2005, 07:02 PM
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catch-22 catch-22 is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
Please don't lecture us about "civil rights" as The Bush regime continues to run its CIA torture gulags throughout The World. There was a time not that long ago in this country when a Black person could face a lynch mob simply for having relations with a White woman, for being accused of theft or could be imprisoned for trying to escape slavery. There was a time not long ago when Native Americans were hunted like animal prey. Shouldn't we have been invaded militarily by France or maybe Britain in order to put an end to it? You people are such brain dead hypocrites. It really makes me laugh. Thanks
So, was it a Frenchman who fought for the abolition of slavery? Was it a British Aristocrat who gave us our freedom? No. Everything we have we had to fight for and everything we have was worth fighting for. If you feel the need to prove your point by ending your posts with insults, it only shows you up as a desperate, single-minded, ****-stirring, trouble-maker. You are the one trying to implant lies into peoples minds.

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  #140  
Old 12-26-2005, 07:32 PM
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dante dante is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmclaughtx
I feel like I am reading the talking points from the Moveon.org bloggers.

A Pro-war diversionary point still qualifies as a fact as presented by the UN.

Your statement of But we can not afford to try and remake The World in our image with military force.

But neither can we sit here and having our buildings fall around us due to terror attacks. So why not plant a democracy right in the heart of Terror Central. Twenty five years from now we will have a better sense of this and how it played out.

As far as the WMD's, do I need to quote every Democratic Senator, Representative, President and Presidential Candidates from the late 1980's through the 1990's who thought these weapon systems existed in larger quanitities than they actually did as well. Do I need to quote French, Russian, British and US Intelligence reports as well. Do I need to post pictures of the victims of the gas attacks upon the Kurds (no, because someone would try to blame those on US Soldiers as well).

Do you even acknowledge that we are in a war againest terrorists? Were we attacked on 9/11 by terrorists? How about the Khobar Towers? How about the USS Cole?

Saddam was a ruthless dictator that had slaughtered his own people, invaded other countries leaving thousands of missing and unaccounted for in Kuwaite, had existing missle systems, had WMD programs on hold, was actively seeking the means to further his nuclear goals, paid palestinian families of suicide bombers, etc, etc, etc. He needed to be relieved of his position in the region, and he was.

As far as Bush being a war criminal, that is laughable at best and sad at its worst that the leftist movement in this country truly believes that. But that is why they are not winning elections. I understand the balance, it takes moderates from both right and left to balance the extremes.

There comes a time when someone who continues to believe the Earth is flat or Saddam was involved with 911 simply defines themselves as irrelevant loonies by their own obstinate denial of reality. All of your fairytales have been debunked so many times that the only thing the proponents accomplish with them is to identify themselves as ignorant right-wing, incorrigible whakos of the lowest order by definition. Not even Limbaigh and Hannity have the balls to try and sell puke that stale anymore. Bush's own brand of diluted media barf reveals Saddam had NOTHING TO DO WITH AL QAEDA. Here's a little project for you that might help. Go write it down 10,000 times. SADDAM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AL QAEDA.

You should also memorize some of the more contemporary denials, lies and obfuscations from other media wh0res besides just the ones at Fox News. The ones you have are so passe'. It would be, at least, a little more engaging if you could regurgitate something other than the same old discredited lies and propaganda that Rupert Murdoch has successfully gotten you to ingest along with your GOP Kool-Aid.

I don't care if Saddam was sitting on a pile of WMDs and didn't make his bed either. They would have been far safer from Al Qaeda then than they would be now that Bush has turned the entire country into a terror training center.




Last edited by dante : 12-26-2005 at 07:50 PM.
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  #141  
Old 12-26-2005, 07:41 PM
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch-22
So, was it a Frenchman who fought for the abolition of slavery? Was it a British Aristocrat who gave us our freedom? No. Everything we have we had to fight for and everything we have was worth fighting for. If you feel the need to prove your point by ending your posts with insults, it only shows you up as a desperate, single-minded, ****-stirring, trouble-maker. You are the one trying to implant lies into peoples minds.
Thanks for making my point,albeit inadvertantly,out of your own rhetorical ineptitude.We had to fight and win our own freedom and the Iraqis will have to do it for themselves too. It just doesn't work any other way. But now that Bush has established an Islamic theocracy in Iraq which is aligned with Iran, his phony adulterated "democracy" may set progress back many decades longer while the inevitable civil bloodbath plays itself out. You people are so myopic, ignorant of history, and incapable of demonstrating any common sense;it's no wonder Bush so effortlessly pulls the wool over your eyes time and again. Amusing.


Last edited by dante : 12-26-2005 at 07:52 PM.
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  #142  
Old 12-26-2005, 07:44 PM
jmclaughtx jmclaughtx is offline
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Such anger.

This is twice in one day I have been subjected to others anger and personal issues on this board. Were there any facts in my prior post that you can dispute in an orderly fashion?

I failed to read the fine print of the agreement that when entering into membership here, to be treated in a civil manner you had to walk and talk like the others. I thought presenting a viewpoint in a manner which is conducive to conversation and debate would be enough.

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  #143  
Old 12-26-2005, 08:07 PM
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catch-22 catch-22 is offline
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
Thanks for making my point,albeit inadvertantly,out of your own rhetorical ineptitude.We had to fight and win our own freedom and the Iraqis will have to do it for themselves too. It just doesn't work any other way. But now that Bush has established an Islamic theocracy in Iraq which is aligned with Iran, his phony adulterated "democracy" may set progress back many decades longer while the inevitable civil bloodbath plays itself out. You people are so myopic, ignorant of history, and incapable of demonstrating any common sense;it's no wonder Bush so effortlessly pulls the wool over your eyes time and again. Amusing.
So glad you are amused by all this, dante. It's obvious that you are, intellectually, millenia beyond our, mere human, level of development. If the Iraqis were able to fight their way out of their repression, don't you think they would have done it 30 or 40 years ago?? The only people on this entire planet who enjoy freedom are those who have fought for it. Name one person who knows freedom who has not!

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  #144  
Old 12-26-2005, 08:29 PM
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Re: Images of U.S. Soldiers abusing Iraqi children....(warning: EXTREMELY graphic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch-22
So glad you are amused by all this, dante. It's obvious that you are, intellectually, millenia beyond our, mere human, level of development. If the Iraqis were able to fight their way out of their repression, don't you think they would have done it 30 or 40 years ago?? The only people on this entire planet who enjoy freedom are those who have fought for it. Name one person who knows freedom who has not!
You must mean this:

CIA Coups In Iraq in 1963 & 1968 Helped Put Saddam Hussein In Power

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/cia_iraq.htm


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