RISK FREE PROFIT pool

[sonchri]

HI, EVERYBODY!!!

MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME!!! IS RISK FREE PROFIT POOL A SCAM OR NOT??

PLEASE HELP!!!!!

CHRIS :confused: :confused: :confused: :

Note from SubJunk: Many posts have been deleted from this thread, making many posts seem to come from nowhere, so keep in mind that when quoting from this thread and reading through it many posts will appear out of context and therefore not necessarily directly representative of the user's opinions.

[Amanda418]

Dear Iraqi,

I have considered this Investment many times. Have you, (seeing your profit margins increase), had to bring on new members yourself or is this something that has been a recent investment for you? Could you tell me a bit more about your experience/s with "Risk Free Profit"?

Thank You,
Amanda

Hi Chris and Amanda,

I am a member of RiskFreeProfit and I can assure you it works, we are three very serious Danish guys who have started a serious business, if interested we would of course be more than happy to have you both onboard our team as well, we will give you all required support, you will never let alone.

I can if interested send you some free materials and thereby show you how much we have earned untill know as you most likely know there are three different ways of earning money.

Best regards René

[kellel79]

Please respond back, if it is legit and a good way to make money then how do you make profit I mean without braking yourself to fund a different bookie. I know the basics but cant understand the fact that if bookie A wins
how do you transfer some of the total to the next arb or the next bookie B does the software find the next arb and automatically set up the amount placed for trade with in bookie B? Its confusing I need real answers before I try joining.

[neno]

Originally Posted by teaminvest

Hi Chris and Amanda,

I am a member of RiskFreeProfit and I can assure you it works, we are three very serious Danish guys who have started a serious business, if interested we would of course be more than happy to have you both onboard our team as well, we will give you all required support, you will never let alone.

I can if interested send you some free materials and thereby show you how much we have earned untill know as you most likely know there are three different ways of earning money.

Best regards René

Banned already. Wow!! look up at the double post are triple post. Looks like rene' was only tryint to help. Sorry rene, come see us.

[aegist]

I'm a member of RFP and I'm only making money on the trading so far. The software works very well for arb trading. I'm waiting for the first payout from the pool before I invest in that, it should be in a month or two now.

Shane

[aegist]

$50 per week from $2500 so far. I am keeping a record of my trading performance exactly at http://www.dreamteammoney.com/index.php?showtopic=1897

I am still learning a lot (only been trading about 2 months) so I have a lot of improvement left in me. I make an average of 5 trades a week (hardly hard work) and the profit is in the order of 2% per week. Arbitrage Trading is not playing the lotto nor is it get rich quick, it is meant to be slow steady reliable profit.

However, this thread wants to know whether the trading pool is a scam or not. I personally do not beleive it is, however I won't use that as an argument claiming that it isn't. I received an email update from RFP this morning actually saying that .:

Hi All



1) The weekly commissions will be paid out tomorrow



2) Payout for Period 12 of the trading pool will also be paid tomorrow



Best Wishes

RFP Admin

So, the FIRST 12 month compounded investment should be paid out tomorrow... now we finally start finding out if everything goes according to plan. It doesn't 'prove' that it isn't a ponzi, but its a good start. I have many reasons why I belevie it wouldn't be a ponzi and is entirely legit, but I don't feel like anyone has really expressed any reasons yet to suspect that the pool would be.

Shane

[bJang]

we received this email from the same people that sent us the MICROSOFT LOTTERY EMAILS. hahahaha to them. :mad:


From: Mr.Kofi Yousaof

Re-Investment Research

Dear.

How are you and your business? I am very interested in doing business in your country, therefore I would like to seek your assistance and help. I am particularly interested in properties but your advise on other areas of private sector would be appreciated.

I got your contact through network directory and I am of the believe that you would be of great help in guiding me to a successful exploration of the investment potential of your country which grantee good capital returns and human security. As a result of this, I can take you in confidence basically because of the source of my fund here by believing that your assistance will be of profitable advantage to us.

I am Mr Kofi Yousaof : formerly of United Liberation Army of Northern Angola {UNITA} under the military leadership of Gen. Gonas Savimbi. My comrades and I sensing the weakness of our Liberation movement and loss of confidence in facing a better trained and equipped federal government Army towards the last one year. We decided to escape with some fund under our care.

We deposited this money with a private security firm in Bangkok, it was deposited as a family treasure so as not to let the company know the real content. This was made possible true special arrangement. South Africa however not being safe for me because of it closeness to Angola, I escaped to Thailand were I’m staying at the moment as a refugee.

I would there fore like you to help me in every possible way in securing this fund to your country since I intend to live and run my business there. The amount involved is, Fifteen Million Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollar {$15.5m}, I would like you to understand my modesty in imploring for your help which is categorically due to my lack of business experience and exposure.

I also want you to acknowledge the fact that I am a carrier soldier who by virtue of the war was opportune to posses the amount of money with me. This fund being the basis of my future and business ambition, your friendship, assistance and advise will be immensely appreciated while your effort will be rewarded by parting with some percentage of the total fund to you.

Be also assured that you stand on no risk of any kind as it was an event during a war situation and I look forward to your urgent reply.

Best Regards,

Mr.Kofi

[bJang]

we received this email from the same people that sent us the MICROSOFT LOTTERY EMAILS. hahahaha to them. :mad:



FROM THE DESK: MR.ADEKUNLE ADAMS
FOREIGN-OPERATIONS UNIT
GLOBAL BANK PLC.
2E-4E AYORINDE AVENUE, VICTORIA ISLAND.
LAGOS.



Dear Friend,


I know this letter will appear to you as a surprise, please i want you to treat this letter with utmost confidentiality. I am the manager of bill and exchange at the foreign remittance department of GLOBAL BANK PLC. here in Nigeria. In my department we discovered an abandoned sum of US$20.2M (Twenty million, two hundred thousand united states dollars) in an account that belongs to one of our foreign customer (MR. ANDREAS SCHRANNER from Munich, Germany) who worked with Shell Oil Development Nigeria and died while on holiday in Germany with his entire family in July 2000 in a plane crash.

Please check the B.B.C news link below for more information on his death.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/859479.stm


Since we got information about his death, we have been expecting his next of kin to come over and claim his money because we cannot release it unless some body applies for it as next of kin or relation to the deceased as indicated in our banking guidelines and laws but unfortunately we learnt that all his supposed next of kin or relation died alongside with him at the plane crash leaving nobody behind for the claim. It is therefore upon this discovery
that I now decided to make this business proposal to you and release the money
to you as the next of kin or relation to the deceased for safety and subsequent disbursement since nobody is coming for it and we don't want this money to go into the bank treasury as unclaimed bill.
The banking law and guidelines here stipulates that if such money remained unclaimed after seven years, the money will be transferred into the bank treasury as unclaimed fund. The request of a foreigner as next of kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer was a foreigner.
I agree that 30% of this money will be for you as a respect for the provision of a foreign account, 10% will be set aside for expenses incurred during the business and 60% would be for me. Thereafter, I will visit your country for disbursement according to the percentage indicated. To enable the immediate transfer of this fund to you arranged.
You must apply first to the bank as relation or next of kin of the deceased , you will be required to provide for me your full name ,permanent address and private telephone and fax number for easy and effective communication and location where the money will be remitted.
Upon receipt of your reply, I will send to you by fax or email the text of the application. I will not fail to bring to your notice this transaction is hitch-free and that you should not entertain
any atom of fear as all required arrangements have been made for the transfer.
You should contact me immediately you receive this letter. Please ensure to keep our transaction strictly confidential until the fund remittance is complete.

I await your reply.



Yours faithfully,



MR.ADEKUNLE ADAMS
FOREIGN-OPERATION UNIT.
GLOBAL BANK PLC

[cneilson]

When you consider getting involved in Arbitrage trading of any sort, make sure to check the legallity of it. It seems to be fine in most of the US and in the UK (or so I;ve been told by people that live there anyway) but as far as I can tell it is not legal in Canada. Make sure to check local, provincial or state and federal laws before getting involved in this sort of trading.

Probably best to talk to a lawyer too, I did some surface checks of Canadian gambling law out of curiosity and everything I turned up indicates that it isn't legal in Canada, but I'm not a legal expert by any means. Still makes it not worth the risk for me.

Colin Neilson

[aegist]

I knew many states in the USA had legal issues, but never knew Canada had legal issues too... Most other places are fine, its just North America in my experience which likes to outlaw online gambling (I always find irony in the phrase "The land of freedom..." whenever I think of this).

Notice that the trading pool in question in this thread does not actually require the member to do anything illegal though. The act which is legislated against is obtaining odds for the purpose of gambling. Since arbitrage trading yourself involves you using online bookmaker odds to place bets, trading yourself would be illegal. Buying into a trading pool which someone else is trading however would not in itself be illegal. You are in no way using online bookmakers, their odds, or gambling.

(PS: it would be nice if a moderator removed the previous two posts which are completely unrelated to this thread....)

Shane

[cneilson]

Actually, the legal issue in Canada is making money by gambling. It's possible that putting money in the pool would not fall under that. Gambling in Canada is entirely controlled by the Provinicial governments, so doing any gambling that is not Provincially controlled is ilegal. I'd want to consult with a local lawyer before I got involved with something like Risk Free Profits, and since I'm currently doing contract work far from home, that's not possible.

I agree that the pool may be legal as I would not be placing bets myself, but I'm not sure a one step removed system would be enough.

Colin Neilson

[goonboy]

I am a riskfreepool member. I started my subscription early last April and was supposed to get my money back last month but haven't seen any of it yet. Supposedly, I have around $3600 US coming back to me. Spending $1668 ($139 monthly sub fee) to make $3600 is a 216% return which sounds like a great investment, but... I have yet to see my money. I have sent them at least twenty e-mails. (I can forward them to anyone who wishes to read them) They reply to rougly 1 out of every 5 of them or once a week and then give me a very vague answer or just give me the run around. They don't talk about payouts for compounding pool members anywhere on their website. Finally, they tell me I will see the money in my Global Xchange debit account in around 6 to 10 weeks. I don't know if I will actually ever see this money. It has been a week so far. As I have never actually used their Surebetpro software to bet on any arbs, I can only comment on the pool. All I can say is for one, their support is crap even though they claim to say they strive for excellent customer service. They used to have live chat support but they scrapped that. Second of all, nowhere in their terms and conditions do they speak of having to wait 6-10 weeks to get paid out. They also forget to mention that there is a 5% admin fee when using the prescribed global xchange debit card, which I think is their subsidiary. On top of that, I have a suspicion they will dock you a few more percentage points when converting to non-US funds. In spite of all this, if I actually get to see this money, then it is worthwhile. The only thing I do not lilke is their preaching about their MLM system. A good product will sell itself.

[aegist]

Do you ever log into your back office Goonboy? They announded the longer than expected delays in pool payouts over a month ago now. The time to payout isn't mentioned in the T&C because it wasn't planned, but was an unforseen sideeffect of needing to draw hundreds of thousands of dollars out of bookmakers who tend to ahve daily, weekly and monthly limits on their withdrawals. I have been told to expect to wait 2 to 2.5 months from completion of the final cyle of compounding for payout to be received. I know this is a pain in the arse, but it is better to have to wait for you profits than have them start withdrawing early and compromise the performance of the pool which would eventually cause failure in the pool.

It is too bad that their customer service has let you down. Their recent problems with DDOS attacks, upgrading their system, and starting with the pool payout process may have affected their respnse times, but I understand your annoyance.

I look forward to hearing when you do receive your payout. It has been a long day in the coming...

Shane

[scambuster]

Bull****. Haven't you seen those lies told enough to know better?
DDOS? Bull****.
"Upgrades"? Bull****

[aegist]

Another brilliant factually backed post by scam buster.

Please scambuster, bust another scam for us with your seasoned logic and investigative abilities.

Oh, woe is me, if only I had have listened to scambusters brilliance striahgt away....

[aegist]

It would seem RFP has just started paying out their first 12 month compounding pool investments. The first report of this I have seen was posted here:
http://www.hyipdiscussion.com/sports...et-pro-15.html

What this means, is if anyone isn't being paid, you should be hearing a multitude of reports of this either already, or very soon.

But at least you can be 100% certain that RFP aren't a scam and aren't stealing peoples money. No matter what 'brilliant arguments' some may be able to bring forth on this forum....

[Duck98]

Originally Posted by aegist

$50 per week from $2500 so far. I am keeping a record of my trading performance exactly at http://www.dreamteammoney.com/index.php?showtopic=1897

I am still learning a lot (only been trading about 2 months) so I have a lot of improvement left in me. I make an average of 5 trades a week (hardly hard work) and the profit is in the order of 2% per week. Arbitrage Trading is not playing the lotto nor is it get rich quick, it is meant to be slow steady reliable profit.

However, this thread wants to know whether the trading pool is a scam or not. I personally do not beleive it is, however I won't use that as an argument claiming that it isn't. I received an email update from RFP this morning actually saying that .:

Hi All



1) The weekly commissions will be paid out tomorrow



2) Payout for Period 12 of the trading pool will also be paid tomorrow



Best Wishes

RFP Admin

So, the FIRST 12 month compounded investment should be paid out tomorrow... now we finally start finding out if everything goes according to plan. It doesn't 'prove' that it isn't a ponzi, but its a good start. I have many reasons why I belevie it wouldn't be a ponzi and is entirely legit, but I don't feel like anyone has really expressed any reasons yet to suspect that the pool would be.

Shane

How much money have you received out of the system? I don't mean "money transferred to a debit account" or "money credited in an e-wallet" or anything else.

How much money have you paid in and how much cash have you gotten out?

[Duck98]

Originally Posted by aegist

It would seem RFP has just started paying out their first 12 month compounding pool investments. The first report of this I have seen was posted here:
http://www.hyipdiscussion.com/sports...et-pro-15.html

What this means, is if anyone isn't being paid, you should be hearing a multitude of reports of this either already, or very soon.

But at least you can be 100% certain that RFP aren't a scam and aren't stealing peoples money. No matter what 'brilliant arguments' some may be able to bring forth on this forum....

have you been paid?

[FTC-SCAMS.COM]

Originally Posted by Duck98

have you been paid?

Fact,

Everyone has been paid as promised from commissions earned over the past couple years, to the now one year old pool fund, so with that said, lets see how many will continue to bash Arbitrage-Sports industry. LOL

[aegist]

I wouldn't call RFP 'The Arbitrage-Sports industry'. There are plenty of other companies in the sports arb industry, ZRA, ArbPro, OddsAndBets, UCantLose, BetRiskFree, RiskFreeBets, WinRiskFree, ArbWinner to name the more obvious ones. Most of these are certainly legit.

Meanwhile there are plenty of companies which claim to use arbitrage as a means of making money inviting investments. sportsarbitrageinvestor for instance is one such company which is clearly a scam. See a thread I started on it here: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=203894#post203894

Shane

I finally found websites who wont scam you. The truth is I have found the best of the best and I am making tons of money from home and am wanting to share it with the people so they dont live a unhappy life. I am just an average guy wanting to help my people in the world to make lots and lots of money! Here is the website for the best of the best. You can thank me later cause I know you will!

o.k. listen carefully spammer, saturnsc2 sezs: "here is is, the first pitch, a ball. the second pitch, a foul ball, the third pitch fouled back into the stands, the pitch, fouled back into the bleachers, the pitch, strike 3! YOUR OTTA HERE SCAMMER!"

[aegist]

LOL, Thank you saturn!

Now where were we...yes... yes, thats right, RFPool is not a scam. Any arguments?

[aegist]

First I googled "Alex Sonkin Riskfreeprofit"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...it&btnG=Search
I got two results: cyberspacecowboys, and Scam (this thread).... might as well be one result, and both of them are you or one of your close friends asking whether alex sonkin is invlovled.

I tried several variations: "Alex Sonkin" "Risk Free Profit" gave this thread, and only this thread.
while Alex Sonkin Risk Free Profit gave too many results, none of which linkerd Alex Sonkin to risk free profit that I could see, other than ...you guessed it, this thread, and your friends over at cyberspace cowboys.

Do you want to know who IS involved with the running, organisation, and administration of RiskFreeProfit? Its really easy to find out, go to their website and click on the about us button...I would provide a link to that, but I can only provide an affilaite link, so find your own way there via one of the millions of links out there to the somethingorother.riskfreeprofit.com homepage (the www.riskfreeprofit.com page doesn't have the 'About us' link).

The About Us page clearly sets out exactly who is who in the business, who runs what, and where they are from. I couldn't see Alex Sonkin anywhere.


If you othyerwise mean to imply that Alex Sonkin Joined risk free profit, then fine. Maybe he did. Thats his right to as a human being. Its even his right to promote it. That is how MLM's work. But no matter how much he promotes it, no matter how succesful he, or Tommy Styles are in RFP, they are only members. They CANNOT change RFP from their position. They don't make any decisions for RFP, they do not handle the accounts for RFP, the policies or even the ideas that RFP have.

If this is your concern with RFP, that two people you hate as conmen have joined it, then with all due respect, you have nothing. That is not an argument, it is not evidence, it is simply an emotional reaction based on association. I will never dispute your right to that reaction, nor will I boter trying to convince you that you should love RFP and join RFP and tell everyone how good RFP is: Go ahead and hate it...thats what your instinctive reaction is due to a strong emotional connection. But that instinct IS NOT evidence, in any form, that RFP is in anyway a scam. None. no evidence whatsoever. So unless you have stronger evidence that 1. Alex and or tommy are most certainly scammers AND 2. One or the other have an influence, say, controlling interest in the operations of RFP: you have nothing more to say on the matter from that angle.




Addressing your first post:
I take the trouble of thoroughly reading everything you have posted in this thread, while vaguely skimming a few threads you ahve posted in the greenzap thread. I would appreciate it if you would return the favour in this thread and read my posts properly before replying to them.

For instance, 2 payouts were never meant to be a testimonial. They were never meant to convince people that RFP are not a scam. I know as well as ony internet savvy person that most HYIPs will payout for a while before they do the runner. I know that paying out doesn't mean it isn't a scam, even if I did bring you evidence of 1000 payouts, that still doesn't prove they aren't...what it does show though, is that the payout time has started. It shows that 1. They HAVE paid out, meaning that the whole thing wasn't just a pretend investment like www.sportsarbitrageinvestor.com, which takes money in, but never pays any money out. So these payouts have shown that much. The second reason it is important to know that payouts are now happening, is because if they were scamming, or if they did rip anyone off, you would be reading about it. Please, find the people out there who have invested in this pool, expected to be in the first payout, and didn't get paid. Because you know as well as I do, there is no real incentive to tell people you were paid, but there are a MILLION incentives to tell people you were not paid.

Finally, I'm not in a pissing contest with you Richard. I want the truth. You want a witch hunt. I'll continue to resist your hype as long as possible to get to the truth on this matter because this topic is of relevence to me. I am a member of RFP, but more I am the admin of a website which many people refer to for advice in sports arbitrage. If there is anything untoward happening, then I want to know about it.

Looking forward to your reply.

Shane

[aegist]

Thats it precisely. GREENZAP made that claim. RFP did NOT make that claim about thesurebetproscam, it in fact came from a number of people in the arbforum.co.uk forums.

And as for your departing comment, I think that is PRECISELY why I am the only one HERE who is defending RFP. I am the only person (possibly on earth) who is mature enought o put up with your childish retorts and not react in a way which will be moderated by the ever present moderators in this forum.

"I make that much an hour" Good for you. Get over yourself.

There is a reason most people who come to these forums don't bother defending programs. People like you, people who have 2431 posts (all in greenzap apparantly) who are so entrenched into thinking that everything which is mentioned in here or in relation to somethingf mentioned here is automatically a scam, that no amount of consideration, rationality, justification or actual evidence will sway your mind from this pre-applied verdict.

I have systematically replied to every single claim that you have made about SureBetPro and RiskFreeProfit (as unrelated as each claim was, and even when they were purely emotive attempts to make fun of me indirectly through RFP "I make that much every hour"...). Meanwhile you stick your nose in the air, put your fingers in your ears and chant "Its a scam. It's a scam. It's a scam."

Well, good day to you sir. Go continue scamsaying in all of the other threads, because I think that any rational person who has actually read through this thread can clearly see you don't have anything to say here anyway.

Kind regards,
Shane

[borisf96]

Originally Posted by aegist

And as for your departing comment, I think that is PRECISELY why I am the only one HERE who is defending RFP. I am the only person (possibly on earth) who is mature enough o put up with your childish retorts and not react in a way which will be moderated by the ever present moderators in this forum.

You are just like a kid. When you are told: "don't act childish" you reply "no, you act childish". Unless you are doing it on purpose, please grow up.

Now on topic, sports arbitrage is to gambling as diversified portfolio to investment. Therefore arbitrage, when it is done correctly and by right company, is much safer way to bet than putting individual bets.
Problem is that RFP does not give impression of right company. Right company will not make you to wait for a extraordinary period of time before making withdrawals. Right company will disclose some statistical data about its system. At least it will give you some proof in addition to general statement that sports arbitrage is always profitable. Which is by the way is bull. There are tons of fraud bookmaker sites where you lose your money immediately. A lot of bookmakers that give wrong odds that are necessary for arbitrage to be profitable will go out of business(you lose again). In a lot of countries betting is illegal. Government can close bookmaker at any time(boom). So there are risks.

And the most important. Whenever you are betting, house is making at least 10%. So odds difference must be pretty wide for you to make profit. That makes high profitability less probable. And there is always chance that RiskFreeProfit owner empties your accounts and splits. Remember, he is the only one(ore one of a very few) who controls everything. People who get in this kind of ownership usually do not like to be confined by laws or large investors(banks, investment funds) who can install some control mechanisms.

Again I am not saying that RiskFreeProfit is 100% scam. But by investing in it without even knowing approximate risks, you are making a mistake.

[aegist]

Originally Posted by borisf96

You are just like a kid. When you are told: "don't act childish" you reply "no, you act childish". Unless you are doing it on purpose, please grow up.

Excuse me, did you read any of this thread? Your comment here is so out of alignment that it is not funny. I have systematically replied to everything Richard Boyce has said, and his best replies have always been to ignore my points, and raise a new childish retort in an attempt to demean me personally. I think I have been incredibly controlled until that last post, and I believe my comments were entirely justified. If you make any more blatently untrue statements like "You are just like a kid" then I am simply going to ignore you. get your facts right, read the thread, understand what is going on, and then add to the thread with informed posts, not BS ad-hominem comments.

This thread is not about me. It is about risk free profit.

Now on topic, sports arbitrage is to gambling as diversified portfolio to investment. Therefore arbitrage, when it is done correctly and by right company, is much safer way to bet than putting individual bets.
Problem is that RFP does not give impression of right company. Right company will not make you to wait for a extraordinary period of time before making withdrawals. Right company will disclose some statistical data about its system. At least it will give you some proof in addition to general statement that sports arbitrage is always profitable. Which is by the way is bull. There are tons of fraud bookmaker sites where you lose your money immediately. A lot of bookmakers that give wrong odds that are necessary for arbitrage to be profitable will go out of business(you lose again). In a lot of countries betting is illegal. Government can close bookmaker at any time(boom). So there are risks.

Saying that it is much safer than betting is an understatement, considering betting is a losing concept, while arbitrage is a profitable concept (mathematically speaking). The concept is 'risk free' but clearly the activity involves risks. I don't dispute that, and no one who looks into arbing would dispute that. RiskFreeProfit is a brand name, just like WinRiskFree, RiskFreeBets, Zero Risk Arbitrage, and BetRiskFree. Feel free to read my explanation of what sports arbitrage trading is at www.sportsarbitrageguide.com and see me say that arb trading isn't risk free right there on my website. Or if you want to hear someone else describe it and its potential probles, then check out http://www.homepokergames.com/sportsarbitrage.php They have a good explanation of arbitrage in my opinion. Infact, if you are still unsure what arbitrage is all about, how it works, and all of the risks involved, then look at all of the sites listed here: http://www.sportsarbitrageguide.com/linkhelpful.html

Believe me, I know that arbitrage involves risks. But I also know that a professional trader, a professional outfit can minimise those risks thoroughly enough so that the ongoing profits easily outway the risks and therefore return consistent profit.

Bookmakers being shut down and bookmakers ripping you off is the least of your concerns when you operate professionally: ie, ensure the bookmakers you are using are legitimate and trustworthy first. I recommend www.sportsbookreview.com and www.bookmakersreview.com. If in doubt, www.google.com and do some of your own research.

However, you have made one good point in this disparate paragraph. RFP don't release statistical information about their activities in the pool. I had a quick look, and the truth is I don't know really anything about the actual activities of the trading pool. All they report are their weekly profits, and if my vague memory is true, they said one time that they were increasing the number of traders they were going to employ. I will try to find that newsletter and post it here if it exists.

Aside from that, I don't know anything about the pool. So what sort of information should they post up about the pool? What sort of information needs to be made public to make it seem right?

As for the long time for payouts, and the long time to get money in, that is simply a consequence of arbitrage and working with large sums of cash. In order to trade arbs you have to deposit money into an e-wallet or CC or something like that. You then need to deposit that money into 10 - 80 different bookmakers. You have to make bets and wait for those bets to clear. If you withdraw money from bookmakers, that money is not being used, and hence not gaining profits. In order to withdraw money from the pool, money needs to be withdrawn from bookmakers (a process which itself often takes up to 2 days in the fastest methods, sometimes over a week for bookmakers which don't use these faster methods.). After withdrawing from the bookmakers, the money needs to be transfered from each of the trading account e-wallets into a centralised account, and it then needs to be distributed to the owners. Of course, you can't start this process before it is ready, because then you would be taking money out of the pool and impairing its performance, it must be started after that money has earnt its profits. I would also be happy to know that my money was being well accounted for every step of the way. Since 80 different bookmakers all have their own methods of withdrawal, some are instant, some take their time etc there is a lot of room for variation and problems to occur. Secondly, this is happening at each of the individual traders. If one of those traders has an issue with a withdrawal, then that could slow down the process.

The truth of the matter is that arbitrage trading is full of variable. Ask any trader. And now you want a company which is facing its first ever payout from a pool which no doubt contains a LOT of money to get it right first time, and do it instantly? I think the fact that they managed it at all is an incredible accomplishment.

And the most important. Whenever you are betting, house is making at least 10%. So odds difference must be pretty wide for you to make profit. That makes high profitability less probable. And there is always chance that RiskFreeProfit owner empties your accounts and splits. Remember, he is the only one(ore one of a very few) who controls everything. People who get in this kind of ownership usually do not like to be confined by laws or large investors(banks, investment funds) who can install some control mechanisms.

PLease, for the sake of coherence, try to keep your paragraphs topic focussed. This paragraph covers two completely unrelated points in one breath.

1st point: Not really important. This is a factor about arbitrage: it must come from odds which are disarate enough to create a profit, and it is irrelevent how much profit each of the individual bookmakers appear to be making in their margin. As long as you can get the odds, then you have them. Arbs occur (all the time), and people have been trading them profitably for at least 4 years now in sports betting (much more profitably than myself I might add) and they are still doing it.

2nd point: Correct, RFP might be able to just pack up and run away with your money. You are spot on. But I have already covered previously in this thread why it is that I think they wont:

Originally Posted by Aegist

The thing which seperates RFP's pool from all of the other HYIP's out there are several-fold.
1. RFP is primarily an arbitrage alert software selling company. They are very succesful in this regard, and losing this succsful legit business just to try to rip off people in a HYIP scam would not be worth it.
2. Their investment pool makes no promises about its returns. They quite clearly say that there are professional arb traders trading the funds, and whatever profit they make on the total pool each week is recorded and allocated to its members. They can't run themselves into the ground with payouts when they payout whatever they want to. They could run for 12 months with 0% return, and they would not be breaking the contract they have. Why report 4% returns on any given week if they didn't recieve it?

That is why I do not believe RFP pool would ever intentionally rip people off, and why I sincerly hope it never screws up by mismanagement and collapses under its own weight.

Originally Posted by borisf96

Again I am not saying that RiskFreeProfit is 100% scam. But by investing in it without even knowing approximate risks, you are making a mistake.

I agree with you completely on your last sentence. I have already said previously that I myself have not invested in the pool yet. My best friend is however, and I am considering doing so myself. I would rather push this thread to a reasonable conclusion before I do so though. I appreciate your input (aside from your first paragraph) because I am here to find the truth of the matter.

Again:

Originally Posted by Aegist

this thread wants to know whether the trading pool is a scam or not. I personally do not beleive it is, however I won't use that as an argument claiming that it isn't

ie: I am not saying that RFP is 100% not a scam. i just don't see any evidence indicating that it is yet.

Shane

[aegist]

This is a fun game. You post pointless inanities, I reply explaining thoroughly why they are pointless, you ignore my reply and add MORE pointless inanities. I reply thoroughly explaining why your posts are not addressing anything still, you IGNORE what I say, assume I am simply here to be a shill for RFP and post the SAME pointless inanities.

Wow.... is that how the greenzap thread reached eight THOUSAND posts?

So, now that you have reposted pointless inanity number 9 for the second (maybe third time), I will try to write a short reply to address it again:
Where did you find out that :

Now this is the same company that is promoting RFP.

Name: EIREVISION LIMITED
Address: No. 8 Hayden Park Walk, Lucan, Co. Dublin

?????
Secondly, just about anyone can promot RFP. It's an MLM. So the more important question is: So what if Eirevision promote RFP? By the looks of the Metsothelioma page, website promotion and sales is what they try to do....

[aegist]

OMG.
I saw the damn ad. 3 times now. Followed the link and all.
I remember seeing somewhere something about a connection between Eirevision and RFP, but I can't see it now... I AM ASKING YOU TO SHOW ME.

Stop saying that Eirevision is RFP and expecting me to just take your word for it. I don't work from hearsay. You saying something doesn't make it so. Where did you get this information from?

OH, and BTW, don't YOU dare imply that I haven't taken the time to 'actually read'. So far I am the only person in this thread who has taken any time to do anything. If something doesn't change soon, maybe I will give in and just start posting pointless inanities too.

Shane

[aegist]

Thank you for finally replying to what I have said. (even if you had to insult me in doing so)

The reason I wanted you to tell me where the information comes from is because when I go to the "About Us" page of RFP, it says:

ABOUT US...
RiskFreeProfit is the trading name of a solid, debt free marketing company, HB Trading Inc. Verification number 956311, Corporation 695764, PO Box 5981, Panama 2, Republic of Panama. Its Directors are James Beattie from Ireland and Trond Hov from Norway.

Now I realise this could ahve been changed, but I also know that it may not have been.....how do *I* know one way or the other? I have never seen the Eirevision version, other than when you report it to me, and so far you ahve not inspired any trust in me from your behaviour. Hence, I want a little evidence from you.

PS: This doesn't mean I am not listening, or that I have my mind made up etc etc etc. It just means you have to work to PROVE something for the first time in your "Scam-Busting" life.

Shane

[aegist]

great work. Thank you. OK, so RFP was originally under Eirevision or related to Eirevision, or parhaps even still are. I don't know too much about Business, but I do know that businesses can register business names and you regularly have businesses trading under businesses trading under businesses. My Father in law is a self made entrepreneur and he has explained many reasons why companies break themselves us into multiple smaller companies.

Anyway, more relvently, I know that the Mesothelioma page is simply an attempt to make money through Google Adsense. Chances are Beatie, or whoever setup Eirevision years ago as a company through which they worked online to make money. It says on the website that James beatie has been invovled in MLM's for many years. The fact that he (or whoever owns Eirevision) has registered a company name, and run out any of their business operations under that name is not remarkable, or indicting.

So, with regards to the Eirevision - mesothelioma Adsense campaign, I don't see any particular problem. Am I missing something here?

Otherwise, i await your connection between Sonkin, Berstein, RFP and what the implication of that connection is.

Shane

[aegist]

Once again you dissappoint me greatly. You know why I am here (well you should, I have stated it several times, and you ahve even read my own blog entries at my website.) Yet you insult me with BS like "You are clearly a shill". Try sticking with pertinent information and lay off the baseless accusations.

Look at the website again. Please. look at it. What do you know about SEO? Search Engine Optimisation? Anchor text is weighted heavily. bold text is heavily weighted. By having a bunch of pages of heavily anchored keyword laden texts, you increase your chances of Google and Co. finding your page.

LOOK AT THAT PAGE.
http://www.mesotheliomassupport.com/

What is the first thing you see?
it is Google Adsense isn't it? To the left? Adsense. Right? Adsense. Middle... wow..more adsense. Hmmmm the 3 largest adsense displays google has....and google only allows 3 adsense units per page...I wonder why they CRAMMED those in there?

now lets look at the content... how many times can we cram the word MESOTHELIOMA into the content? How many times can we make it bold? How many time can we make it link anchored? how many times can we associate it with the word lawyer? Like as in "Mesothelioma Lawyers"??? Wow...more than once....

http://www.cwire.org/highest-paying-search-terms/
Shame, Mesothelioma lawyers has lost value in Adsense since I last saw this... for quite a long time it was number 1. Now it's only the 18th highest paying adsense word at...SIXTY DOLLARS PER CLICK.

That website is an Adsense Campaign.

I suggest you follow your own advice and stop wasting your time here.

Shane

[aegist]

You are spamtacular. Thank you for posting this here ...again...ignoring all previous replies to EVERY one of these sites, ignoring my previous post which once again replied to your BS questioning, and thank you for ignoring all human decency.

You are a sparkling contribution to the scam.com team.

Now in spite of your post, I will continue on with my previously promised post expressing my reasons for believing RFP is not a scam. And I promise, if you resort to your standard spam responses, then I will just reply with quotes of previous replies.

[aegist]

Yet you provide none yourself.

[aegist]

Fact: Timeinvestor is the only one posting profits religiously. He is not the only one who claims to have been paid. I can very easily refer you to aboue 6 people who have been paid. I myself have been paid by RFP, as has my best friend who was the one who originally registered us. RFP has been consistently paying weekly commisions on their Matrix for over 2 years now. They have been consistently paying their monthly non-compounding units on their trading pool for over a year now.

If anyone was not paid, they would be here telling everyone,wouldn't they? Or at Rip-off report. Or at anyone of the hundred other 'Dob in the bad business' websites. BUT THEY AREN'T. That is your proof that everyone has been paid. AND YOU KNOW IT. but you prance about pretending you don't. I bet you won't even address the fact that I have said this in your next reply

[aegist]

Originally Posted by aegist

If anyone was not paid, they would be here telling everyone,wouldn't they? Or at Rip-off report. Or at anyone of the hundred other 'Dob in the bad business' websites. BUT THEY AREN'T. That is your proof that everyone has been paid. AND YOU KNOW IT. but you prance about pretending you don't. I bet you won't even address the fact that I have said this in your next reply

Wow. I'm the next nostradamus

[Alan Thomsen]

Hi guys !

I have a friend who joined RFP + the pool a long time ago. He is still waiting for his first payout. He told me they haven't been able to keep a 4-5% weekly profit as some members claimed they would when the pool was introduced a long time ago.

But the software works and app. the reps. organisation is still steady growing.

Roumor has it that the major bookmakers are somehow considering a total ban on arb's.
Besides the fees for transferring money are also high and unfair. But this is the way they try to get rid of the surebetters I guess.

Anyway, if some of you would like to join a non-risk free betting and gambling opp. drop me a line. (an instant 8£ bonus will be paid to you all. no strings attached) :)

Rgds. from Denmark

Alan

[Major General]

01:00
2006-14-06
Subject: Bernstein; Sonkin; RFP connection
Collated data follows:
http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=5854 3-09-06

Originally Posted by ThereFanboy

Last call, anyone wanting to be scammed for $100 and possibly more, see tommy:

http://rolclub.com/showpost.php?p=66686&postcount=5

therefan

http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=6307 3-23-06

Originally Posted by bhearsch

Del Mar Institute: http://www.supertrader.ttcglobaltalk.com/
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois...timalwealth.com

Notice that Bernstein or Sonkin gave the phone number for "San Diego Information" as their contact number.

Blanche

http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=6354 3-24-06

Originally Posted by bhearsch

Michael Bernstein's Optimal Wealth website was registered on Sept. 11, 2005. The WHOIS registration says the Admin contact is:

Del Mar Educational Institute
Michael Bernstein
5370 Toscana Way Suite H216
San Diego, CA 92122
US

ARBITRAGE TRADING STRATEGIES - DEL MAR GROUP is the title of the front door of this page: http://www.supertrader.ttcglobaltalk.com/

It's obvious that Bernstein and Sonkin have been working on this for awhile, even before Sonkin left Greenzap. Bernstein and Sonkin are a package deal - they are a team and have been for quite some time. So, something to ponder....would you trust your money with a so-called "money transfer company" ( the Latest Greatest Payment Processor ) when you knew two of their officers were also currently involved in a sports betting ponzi scheme? Is this something the officers of the "next PayPal" should be doing?

Blanche

http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=7831 4-18-06

Originally Posted by biggfredd

Sonkin? Interesting?

http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=7835

Originally Posted by bhearsch

OK, I'm confused. I thought this was already discussed? Alex Sonkin IS Tommy's Team leader. The website where their group has their meetings, The Del Mar Institute, is registered to Michael Bernstein and Mike doesn't do anything without Alex.
http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=6307
http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=6354

They removed the heading at the top of this page http://www.supertrader.ttcglobaltalk.com/ which said "The Del Mar Institute" shortly after the info was posted here. Tommy also removed it from his sigline.

biggfredd and Richard, have you guys been napping? :D

Blanche

An updated whois shows Alex Sonkin as principal registrant
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois....e=off&email=on

Registrant: Del Mar Educational Institute
Alex Sonkin
1528 India Street #401
San Diego, CA 92101 US
Email: alex.sonkin@gmail.com
Registrar Name....: REGISTER.COM, INC.
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: www.register.com
Domain Name: optimalwealth.com
Created on..............: Sun, Sep 11, 2005
Expires on..............: Mon, Sep 11, 2006
Record last updated on..: Fri, Mar 24, 2006
Administrative Contact: Del Mar Educational Institute
Alex Sonkin 1528 India Street #401
San Diego, CA 92101
US Phone: 1-619-2438819
Email: alex.sonkin@gmail.com

http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showpo...28&postcount=1

New Team Starting

3-13-06

Originally Posted by neno

Hello,
I am apart of a team that just built a company's membership from 0 to 720,000 in a few short months. Our job is done their and imbarking now to rfp. A great oppritunity for the "Matrix " here as you work your trades and pool funds. If your a investor you know the reality of more spots. I will be feeding more info from our team as we go. To start here is a few words of the backgroud of the "Master Mind". Thanks
---------------------------
------------------(body of speeech by Alex Sonkin)
"As an experience derivatives trader and member of the Chicago Board of Trade, Chicago Board of Options Exchange, and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, I was asked to review, what some people were claiming to be the greatest Arbitrage Software the world has ever seen"
------------------------
A. http://tstylestrader.riskfreeprofit.com (Del Mar Institute)

http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showpo...33&postcount=2

Originally Posted by neno

Attention: Traders, Marketers, & Investors

Can You Afford to Miss This One 45 minute Webinar?

The Del Mar Educational Institute

-Presents-

Knowledge is *****, Series 2

Three more mentions on the same page in this thread of Del Mar Institute

http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showpo...9&postcount=13

Originally Posted by LuvNLife

This is too funny. To begin with, why not tell them who the Master Mind is Tommy? No need to be shy - Alex Sonkin. Michael Bernstein is probably not far behind, since these 2 (try to) do a lot of "business" together. I can't understand why Alex wasn't a bit more clear about his stint at the Chicago Board of Trade, though. He rented a freakin' chair. He was never himself a member. Ask him to show you some concrete proof of it, and that's that.

This next post is the start of a new thread
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showpo...60&postcount=1

New rfp "meeting" Team Room for Del Mar Group.

3-15-06

This next post which has actually seemed to survive the purges over at "Rolclub" singles out Alex as the "rfp Leader"
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showpo...66&postcount=2

Originally Posted by neno

See This: http://rolclub.com/showpost.php?p=68417&postcount=7 We are a Team with plenty of ROOM for you.
---------------------(Propaganda)
As an experience derivatives trader and member of the Chicago Board of Trade, Chicago Board of Options Exchange, and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, I was asked to review, what some people were claiming to be the greatest Arbitrage Software the world has ever seen.
------------------------(Propaganda)
rfp Leader
Alex

O.S.S. Chief
Major William Donovan

[aegist]

great post Major General. Thank you.

It is clearly as I suspected. Alex and Tommy are both RFP members promoting their own group. Alex is the 'leader' of his group, as is any other member the leader of their own group. The Del mar Institute seems to be the corporate name they/Alex/Whoever registered their business activities under, which aimed to 'teach' people how to make money. RFP was one of the businesses which they 'taught' people how to make money in.

There is no greater connection between Del mar/Alex Sonkin/Tommy Styles and RFP than Alex and Tommy are members promoting 'their business'...

Shane

[aegist]

Thats a bit rude of UKData to charge £18 to read the minutes :( Companies in the ASX must make all documents available for public access, and the ASX does this for free...

Maybe I am making a bad comparison there though.

So anyone wanna buy them and check it out? :D

Regards,
Shane

[aegist]

Damn, I was too slow in posting my previous post, it should now read : Stop spamming. 5 Useless posts in a row. You are wasting virtual paper.

Originally Posted by richardboyce

Who is the Master Mind referred to here?
Could it possibly be Alex Sonkin?
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showt...?t=81062&page=2


Originally Posted by neno
Hello,

I am apart of a team that just built a company's membership from 0 to 720,000 in a few short months. Our job is done their and imbarking now to rfp. A great oppritunity for the "Matrix " here as you work your trades and pool funds. If your a investor you know the reality of more spots. I will be feeding more info from our team as we go. To start here is a few words of the backgroud of the "Master Mind". Thanks

Originally Posted by Aegist

great post Major General. Thank you.

It is clearly as I suspected. Alex and Tommy are both RFP members promoting their own group. Alex is the 'leader' of his group, as is any other member the leader of their own group. The Del mar Institute seems to be the corporate name they/Alex/Whoever registered their business activities under, which aimed to 'teach' people how to make money. RFP was one of the businesses which they 'taught' people how to make money in.

There is no greater connection between Del mar/Alex Sonkin/Tommy Styles and RFP than Alex and Tommy are members promoting 'their business'...

Originally Posted by richardboyce

Got that proof yet?

Originally Posted by Aegist

If anyone was not paid, they would be here telling everyone,wouldn't they? Or at Rip-off report. Or at anyone of the hundred other 'Dob in the bad business' websites. BUT THEY AREN'T. That is your proof that everyone has been paid. AND YOU KNOW IT. but you prance about pretending you don't. I bet you won't even address the fact that I have said this in your next reply

[aegist]

You assumptions continue to be your undoing. I never followed any step of the greenzap thread other than the 5 posts or so where you picked apart my background due to me standing up against your ridicules claims against RFP.

You still have nothing, and your blatent choice to ignore every VALID point which I have raised is a sign against your integrity.

You are pure evil.

What you do is 1000x worse than what scammers do. Scammers may steal money, and I will always hate them for that, but you steal dignity. You pick people apart, defame them, make accusations against their integrirty and do it all with a god-coimplex. You are beyond reproach. You think you have some sort of moral high ground upon which you have the divine right to case judgement upon people.

You, are a poorly educated fool with a big mouth and an axe to grind.

I will not let you walk all over me, or anyone, or anything else which I know something about without evidence. On principle. Principles being something that I have, unlike you.

[aegist]

The burden of proof is upon you

Where is the proof I have asked for?

[Online Investor]

Here a proof of me getting paid by RFP via IGX. I withdraw my $$ in IGX using the IGX debit card. Thats y u saw my acc with 6US balance.

[Sprinter]

Guys,

I've been reading your posts here and I can't help it but decide to register in this nice forum and finally say something because I myself is an RFP member since June of last year. So far RFP has paid my matrix commissions flawlessly so I got nothing against them not paying. I never placed some money into their non-compunding pool but I did to their compounding pool ($1500 to be exact). It should finally mature on July 6, 2006 and if or when I finally get paid, I will be sharing screenshots of such payout. But if I don't get paid, I'll be the first to scream "SCAM" here. Now let me know if matrix comission payment screenshots would do you any good here because so far that's only all I got. I would be glad to post them but teach me in detail how to post it in a forum or I can simply e-mail it to anyone of you guys to post it for me. Just send me your e-mail.

In my opinion, I think RFP is NOT a scam because although I am NOT trading myself (as I lived in a part of Asia that is not being serviced by both Neteller and Firepay), I see a lot of people who do actually trade and use the surebetpro software PLUS they finally paid the first batch of the compounding pool. Now I can't wait for mines and I hope I finally get paid too as nothing beats being actually paid as compared to just seeing others get paid. Lastly, I personally don't consider placing money into RFP Pool as an investment because it never is. It is still placing bets on sports events although the risk is being eliminated since it is only being performed on arb situations (meaning placing bets on both sides of a sporting event thus minimizing or elimnating the risk).

I hope I'm able to help in a small way.

[Sprinter]

Thanks richard for all your information. In fact you are correct.... I've seen it before that RFP is also EireVision Ltd. but now thay are using their company in Panama. I don't know the reason for this but my impression is these guys have companies, people or satellite offices (or whatever you call them) scattered around the world.... India, USA, Ireland, Norway. etc. And I heard too that in Ireland, they are operating out of their homes but I dont' see anything wrong with that as i've said, their are not an investment company or something. They are just a company with a software that they are renting out to arb traders.

[aegist]

Originally Posted by Sprinter

Thanks richard for all your information. In fact you are correct.... I've seen it before that RFP is also EireVision Ltd. but now thay are using their company in Panama. I don't know the reason for this but my impression is these guys have companies, people or satellite offices (or whatever you call them) scattered around the world.... India, USA, Ireland, Norway. etc. And I heard too that in Ireland, they are operating out of their homes but I dont' see anything wrong with that as i've said, their are not an investment company or something. They are just a company with a software that they are renting out to arb traders.

Bingo. You are spot on sprinter.

Originally Posted by RichardBoyce

believe there are a few red flags surrounding this company and I have explained why I think so. Despite your accusations I have never referred to RFP as a scam, I haven't decided yet.

You haven't outright said it, but your actions speak louder than your words. You continually repeat the same posts, the some points and the same links which cast aspersions upon the reliability of RFP being a legitimate company even though I have clearly addressed every single on of them. You simply ignored me everytime I addressed them.

The biggest problem though, is that after the few legitimate 'potential' red flag points have been raised and settled, you continue to post link after link after link to apparently connected points which achieve nothing other than to make it look like the body of evidence against RFP is huge. As I have said many times, you are spamming filler to make it look like you have a case. You can raise red flags, and I have no problem with that, you know why I am here (even though you ignore that and assume I am lying about it), it is to help discover a deeper truth about RFP.

So, until you stop purposefully presenting misinformation and casting it as 'factual evidence' against RFP, then you are acting as if RFP is a scam and deserves a punishment already.

Please justify your actions from now on.

Regards,
Shane

[tjpartners]

I'm here at the request of a friend (Hi Shane)

We're aquainted only thru the web. I live in the US...Arkansas to be specific and I believe he's an Aussie (if that term is an insult to you then you know it was unintended!)

I have been in RFP since 7/04 and everything they have owed I have received, including the pool compounding payout! Since we are not supposed to discuss the pool in forums all I will say is it was sweet...very sweet!

I'm not much for marketing and since arb trading does have a learning curve I don't try to recruit members. I have 1 personally sponsored member who has been in over a year.

We do actively trade, but it's mostly my wife as I have a more than full time job. I hope to build up to where we are running 2 SureBetPro's on different computers but I'm not sure yet if that's going to pan out. I know of a Canadian that was doing that about a year ago, but he was well funded.

Is RFP a scam....not even close! It may fail as lots of good business has before, but it won't be due to the collapse of a pyramid!

IMO there are ex-members that would even call it a scam, but I feel as though it was because it was different than they were expecting. There is a learning curve and it works best if you have funds!

Best Wishes,
Tom

[tjpartners]

I'm guessing he's asleep or at work...he's not on messenger either

[aegist]

No I'm just lurking. Trying not to feed the troll.
Thanks for posting Tom.

And no Richard, nothing desperate. Just posting what youa sked. For some reason i keep doing that...responding to your requests demands, and pointless white-noise. While you continue to ignore the facts.

I guess there still isn't any proof that anyone has ever been paid by RFP is there?

Shane