Avian Flu a hoax to sell more flu shots?

[Rawb]

I just received info that the REAL reason behind this latest Avian Flu scare is to sell more Tamiflu shots. Yep, scare the public into buying their $100 flu shots. They ordered 20 million of 'em. Figure that math out. MLM scams, move over, the big boys are gonna show you how's it done.

Apparently, Rumsfeld was made chairman of Gilead in 1997, the company who developed the Tamiflu in the first place. They gave the rights to Roche ten years ago to manufacture Tamiflu. Rumsfeld is reported to have major portions of stocks in Gilead. If anyone read the history of Aspartame, it wasn't until Rumsfeld came into the picture that it was approved. If it wasn't for Rumsfeld, no Aspartame. I guess he is a man you can count on to get things done. Too bad it isn't in the best interests of the health of the American public. :rolleyes:

[Rawb]

No one wants to comment on this one? Ok who's up for some Kentucky fried Cancer? or good'ol chubby chicken? We can wash it all down with a Tamiflu shake. :p

[TruthHurts]

People would respond if you had ANYTHING intelligent to say.

[Dynamoo]

Tamiflu (Oseltamivir) is actually not that effective.. indeed, all anti-viral drugs have limited effectiveness. They're better than nothing, but usually the only effective way to fight off a virus is through antibodies. Specifically, these antibodies can be stimulated by using a vaccine.. however, they are very specific to individual types of virus, so it's not possible to create a vaccine for the much speculated "mutant bird flu", because it doesn't yet exist. So, because there's no vaccine, the only thing that governments can do is stockpile Oseltamivir/Tamiflu.

The danger is that people will "talk up" Tamiflu as a surefire cure for the mutant bird flu. It's not, indeed it's not anywhere close. There's a certain amount of hype around the product though, but I suspect it's the media talking it up. (Remember Cipro?)

Of course, only Roche is licensed to make Oseltamivir/Tamiflu. The product was developed by Gilead Sciences and Rumsfeld was chairman until 2001. He also held senior positions with Bechtel, Gulfstream and several other companies.

Despite all this, Oseltamivir does appear to be a useful product. Its limitations are down to the limitations of science, not the product.

And if there is a massive outbreak of mutant bird flu, governments will lift the patent restrictions in any case, and any pharma company will be able to make generic Oseltamivir without paying a fee.. in which case, Roche will lose out.

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by TruthHurts

People would respond if you had ANYTHING intelligent to say.

Anything intelligent to say? If intelligence is based on talking about politics all the time then you're right. I have nothing to say.
Other than this.
Why do so many people focus on what the politicans are doing instead of making them accountable for their actions ? Did we elect them to dictate whatever they feel like making us do? What a joke, we elect them so they can manipulate, take advantage of, and more, and we allow it. So while we waste time fighting with each other about who is politically correct, they are living it up on our hard earned cash and saying thank you for your support. Keep up the good work suckers, buy into the system.

If there are any good politicians left out there (the ones that fight for the people and protect them), they get weeded out before they reach the top anyway . Big business gets who they want in ***** to push through the laws that will most benefit them. Do you really think that any of these clowns we see running for ***** REALLY care for you? You may pick who says what you want to hear but it is all about the money they receive from big business. Who pays for their campaigns? big business. And if they get elected, they return the favor. I'm sure though you know all of this. This is just small little observations.

I am more concerned with educating people on how to protect themselves from these clowns that pretend to be protecting them (Avian Flu shots)
Knowledge is *****.
Americans are already paying taxes right? So these flu shots should be free if there was no motivation for profits in there. Given the fact that all the lawsuits are stacking up against the pharmaceutical industry and they are seeing future losses, why not give 'em an injection of flu scare profits to even it out a little. Let's see, terrorist scares, anthrax scares, now avian flu scare , what will be the next scare ? Since you are the more intelligent one in this department, why don't you tell me the answer to that question?

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by Dynamoo

Tamiflu (Oseltamivir) is actually not that effective.. indeed, all anti-viral drugs have limited effectiveness. They're better than nothing, but usually the only effective way to fight off a virus is through antibodies. Specifically, these antibodies can be stimulated by using a vaccine.. however, they are very specific to individual types of virus, so it's not possible to create a vaccine for the much speculated "mutant bird flu", because it doesn't yet exist. So, because there's no vaccine, the only thing that governments can do is stockpile Oseltamivir/Tamiflu.

The danger is that people will "talk up" Tamiflu as a surefire cure for the mutant bird flu. It's not, indeed it's not anywhere close. There's a certain amount of hype around the product though, but I suspect it's the media talking it up. (Remember Cipro?)

Of course, only Roche is licensed to make Oseltamivir/Tamiflu. The product was developed by Gilead Sciences and Rumsfeld was chairman until 2001. He also held senior positions with Bechtel, Gulfstream and several other companies.

Despite all this, Oseltamivir does appear to be a useful product. Its limitations are down to the limitations of science, not the product.

And if there is a massive outbreak of mutant bird flu, governments will lift the patent restrictions in any case, and any pharma company will be able to make generic Oseltamivir without paying a fee.. in which case, Roche will lose out.

When some vaccines have formaldehyde or aluminum or my personal favorite from Merck (also maker of Vioxx) human aborted fetal tissue, I do not believe there is any good in them. That was referenced from the 1997 Physician's Desk Reference. I am sure it would still be in the newest one. None of my kids are immunized and a lot more parents are going that route. The scam on vaccines needs to brought out into the open.
How about Thimerosal? For years they had ethyl mercury in the vaccines. Now only because they got caught did they start making them without thimerosal. But did they throw all the bad ones away? No, they want to use them up first. So if you are a concerned person about mercury being in the vaccines, just avoid them altogether, because they are all mixed.

Given the truth coming out about all of the cover ups and lies this industry and government have been keeping from us, I wouldn't trust a word they said regarding anymore vaccines. I believe they should be scrapped. One of the biggest scams of all times is vaccines.

[boone]

Hey Rawb,

Your post IS an intelligent post, I think. Your post makes sense to me- I wouldn't doubt it one bit.

Aspartame does horrendous things to people- some people don't seem bothered by it, but some people have many health challenges and don't realize the cause. Others will have health challenges down the road from it.

Another example is olestra- less adverse effects, but still horrendous. I do not know if it is still used as a fat substitute in chips, etc. Here is a link to some articles on this substance the FDA should of never approved:

http://www.cspinet.org/olestra/

Knowledge IS *****!!!

[Rawb]

Thanks for that link boone. Another piece of truth to add in an ongoing war against the injustices of government and big business.

[boone]

You are welcome, no problem. And you are correct, once again!

[Rawb]

Folks, here is a tidbit for you. A guy I know who has done 20-30 years of research into this whole "health" thing. I was talking to him tonight. Get this;
1 teaspoon of sugar will lower your immune system for 5 hours.
1 can of pop will lower your immune system for 1 week !!!!!
Now take a person like me who was scarfing down the freakin' junk food like mad, no wonder I was getting sick all the time. Avoid the sugar and substitute other things to sweeten instead. AND NOT ARTIFICIAL SWEETNERS... unless you have a death wish :cool:

Originally Posted by Rawb

Folks, here is a tidbit for you. A guy I know who has done 20-30 years of research into this whole "health" thing. I was talking to him tonight. Get this;
1 teaspoon of sugar will lower your immune system for 5 hours.
1 can of pop will lower your immune system for 1 week !!!!!
Now take a person like me who was scarfing down the freakin' junk food like mad, no wonder I was getting sick all the time. Avoid the sugar and substitute other things to sweeten instead. AND NOT ARTIFICIAL SWEETNERS... unless you have a death wish :cool:

that statement really depends on how much sugar is in a teaspoon.....1 gram??? 5 grams??? 20 grams???
health experts say 4 grams are in a teaspoon.
a can of soda has about 25-40 grams of sugar, assuming its not diet obviosuly.
if there are 4 grams in a teaspoon, then one can with 40 grams of sugar would be (10 x 5) 50 hours....only 2 days and two hours, well short of a week.

unless there is some sort of snowball affect that makes each teaspoon affect the immune system exponentially, that person was exaggerating for sure!!!

[Ysne58]

mercola.com has some information on this as well. whether its a hoax or not i don't know, but cheney is raking in the dough on this

[cattysmaq]

I like Dr. Mercola.

I've also become a big fan of fmnn.com (free market news network). They cover many topics you may never even think of. They've posted a few articles about the avian flu issue. Here's the latest one:

AVIAN FLU VOICES OF REASON

Saturday, November 05, 2005 - FreeMarketNews.com

A disaster in the making! Maybe not? The debate over the likelihood of the avian flu pandemic, destroying (human) life as we know it, continues. The latest to speak out is a Florida veterinarian, and he says the reports of the demise of humanity are greatly exaggerated. Gary Butcher, has been an extension veterinarian at the University of Florida's College of Veterinary Medicine since 1988. According to a Gainesville Sun story, he was trained as a veterinarian specializing in avian diseases, and has a Ph.D. in poultry virology. He's spent the last several months either fielding phone calls and e-mails about avian flu, or traveling the world "reassuring alarmed government officials and industry groups" and dispelling the myths about avian influenza.

Butcher acknowledges the widespread effects of this disease among bird populations, but is quick to note that as yet, no one has been proven to have given avian influenza to someone else. "The emphasis of all my work has changed to dealing with this madness," Butcher is quoted as saying in the article. "Realistically, avian influenza is not a threat to people, but everywhere you go, it has turned into a circus." The story also cites Dr. Marc Siegel, a practicing internist and associate professor of medicine at the New York University School of Medicine, as one physician not buying into the scare scenario. "If anything is contagious right now, it's judgment clouded by fear," Siegel is quoted as saying, noting that he is far more concerned about the "fear epidemic" than with the likelihood of a true flu pandemic.

Meanwhile, Butcher dismisses the remote likelihood of bird flu being passed to sapient populations, noting that "For it to become dangerous to humans, it has to go through a pretty significant genetic change. If you put this in perspective, it's not going to happen." However, he does not discount the possibility of some disease affecting widespread human populations: "While we are putting all our attention on this avian influenza," he predicts, "another virus is going to come up and bite us in the bottom."

[Dynamoo]

Vaccines actually *are* an effective and relatively low cost way of controlling disease. They are only a preventative measure though, and they need to be matched up with the particular virus. The problem with "mutant avian flu" is that it doesn't exist yet, so no vaccine can be made. Believe me.. if there *was* a mutant avian flu epidemic and you were in a susceptible demographic, then you'd want the shot.

Tamiflu isn't a vaccine though, it's an antiviral drug that attempts to *treat* flu. It's a completely different type of drug, and only has a limited effectiveness. It is still better than nothing, however.

Prevention is better than cure, and wide scale vaccination is the proven way of controlling the spread of infectious disease. As with any medication, there's always a risk of an adverse reaction, but it's all a question of balance. And if there is a wide-scale public health emergency, then governments would just requistion the medicines that they needed, and pharma companies would not make big bucks.

Sure.. I think Tamiflu is over-hyped and perhaps dangerously so. But avian flu isn't an excuse to sell more vaccine.. because there *is* no vaccine for "mutuant avian flu", simply because it doesn't exist. Yet.

[cattysmaq]

Bush Warns U.S. 'Likely to Face' Flu Pandemic
President Seeks $1.2 Billion for Vaccine in United States
By LAURAN NEERGAARD, AP

WASHINGTON (Nov. 1) -- President Bush outlined a $7.1 billion strategy Tuesday to prepare for the danger of a pandemic influenza outbreak, saying he wanted to stockpile enough vaccine to protect 20 million Americans against the current strain of bird flu as a first wave of protection.

--SNIP--

Bush outlined a strategy that would cost $7.1 billion including:

$1.2 billion for the government to buy enough doses of the vaccine against the current strain of bird flu to protect 20 million Americans; the administration wants to have sufficient vaccine for front-line emergency personnel and at-risk populations, including military personnel;

$1 billion to stockpile more anti-viral drugs that lessen the severity of the flu symptoms;

$2.8 billion to speed the development of vaccines as new strains emerge, a process that now takes months. The goal is to have the manufacturing capability by 2010 to brew enough vaccine for every American within six months' of a pandemic's start. ?!?!?

$583 million for states and local governments to prepare emergency plans to respond to an outbreak.

--SNIP--

The principal goal of Bush's plan, Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt said, "is the capacity for every American to have a vaccine in the case of a pandemic, no matter what the virus is."

"There is no reason to believe that in the next day or two or week or month that that's going to occur," Leavitt said on CBS's "The Early Show." But he added that "we do need to be ready in case it begins to mutate into a human transmissible disease."

So let's go ahead and spend $7.1 BILLION dollars on a plan to thwart something that provides "no reason to believe that in the next day or two or week or month that that's going to occur". I would think, in my very humble opinion, it would be a better expenditure of ****** and money to concentrate on preventing these types of viruses from becoming a problem, rather than throw your hands up and let the problem develop, then treat it afterwards. I've heard Japan is taking steps by killing a bunch of chickens, but I'm sure there are more things that can be done at the source of the potential problem. Instead what we have, is a lot of money being thrown at companies to produce vaccines that will admittedly be only partially effective, and it is a fact that certain high *****ed officials have a stake in these companies. Sure it would be good for this country to be prepared for a pandemic flu outbreak, but this seems highly questionable to me, and it doesn't seem that much thought was put into this "strategy". I really don't think their #1 priority is keeping all of us good citizens healthy.

[Rawb]

One thing I would like to add is; why is it that whenever there is a flu shot available and people line up to take it, the ones that get sick are the ones who received the flu shots? Interesting... I never get the flu shots and I don't get the flus going around. Our kids have never been vaccinated or immunized and they don't get the sicknesses either. And we are always around the ones that do get sick..

I think we are forgetting about the mercury as well? There are many harmful ingredients in vaccines. Heavy metals, formaldehyde, human aborted fetal tissue, lots of other goodies. When the EPA states that humans are to have no contact with mercury as it is not safe at all, why would it be in vaccines? I haven't looked up, if it is even available, the ingredients of the Tamiflu vaccine. Maybe I should or if anyone has it readily available...

We just sheepishly take whatever anyone says is effective without even checking things out for ourselves. At $100 a pop, I would want to know. My health is worth more than that.

Interesting as someone above pointed out, the problem isn't even here yet and they are selling vaccines. How do you treat it if the problem isn't even here? I guess they are trying to make them preventative now? Another post pointed out as well, instead of getting rid of the problem BEFORE it gets here, they are just waiting for it to arrive and deal with it then. Hurricane Katrina showed the effects of that strategy. Why wait until the Avain flu hits ? Moneymoneymoneymoneymoney$$$$$$$$$ it's all about the money.

[spamsquatch69]

Tamiflu isn't a vaccine though, it's an antiviral drug that attempts to *treat* flu. It's a completely different type of drug, and only has a limited effectiveness. It is still better than nothing, however.

It was explained to us that it was a vaccine when we were taking it a couple weeks ago. We were required to take it and it made us all a little sick, but thats what happens with vaccines because they are giving you a weakened or almost dead virus that closely resembles another virus. Its meant to make you a little sick. Thats how it gets your body ready for the new virus.

[spamsquatch69]

When the EPA states that humans are to have no contact with mercury as it is not safe at all, why would it be in vaccines?

You ever eaten fish?

[Rawb]

It seems that more people are becoming aware of the fear mongering ploy that the medical field uses to get people to take vaccines. More parents are no longer getting their children immunized, and guess what ? they are fine.

I know a couple that have three children, well, I should say 2 are teenagers and 1 is an adult now. They never had any vaccines or immunization shots and the only thing that happened to them was the oldest got one spot of measles. 1 spot. Mind you, they eat healthier than most people do too, and are very strict about what they consume.

I would encourage anyone to do their research before allowing anyone to inject anything into them or their kids. For those who believe in immunizations, why is it that I never get sick whenever I'm around people that do get the flus and are sick ? The difference being, I don't take a flu shot and they do.

Another personal example.
My uncle has 4 children. His two oldest ones had all of their regular shots, immunizations etc..
His third child, had only ONE shot, and
his youngest had absolutely none.

He told my wife and I that the youngest is the healthiest out of all of them. The two older ones haven't had any shots for years now, but any sickness that goes around, flu, whatever; the two oldest ones ALWAYS get sick from whatever is going around. The younger ones, don't. But he even notices the difference between the health of the third child and fourth one too. Now that is a personal experience. A person can observe what is happening. WE aren't stupid, unless we have our blinders on.

Children shouldn't be exposed to vaccines at too early of an age either. With the toxins that are in some of these early childhood shots, I have persoanlly seen newspaper articles talking about the link of immunizations to Autism. There was also a documentary on TV regarding a small town or city, in the UK where there is a high incidence of Autism happening. The finger was being pointed that the immunizations that their children received were the trigger for their children in becoming Autistic. It isn't the only thing that is causing it, but it is the trigger effect that brings it out.

Another thing worth mentioning; the Montel show on tv a few years back had a show on Autism as well. A Pediatrician was on the show and his son was a normal child developing as most would around his age. Then, the pediatrician spoke of the child's routine MMR shot (mumps, measles, rubella) and the child regressed and most of his development went back as well. I just remember asking myself, what is MMR, and what is in it that would cause such a huge setback in the development of the child ? The positive that the pediatrician talked about was taking dairy out of his son's diet and seeing improvements as well as gluten.

A couple of websites that people can go on to check out some different sources for themselves.

www.mercola.com
www.newstarget.com
www.tetrahedron.org
www.pcrm.org

There are lawsuits rising against the vaccine manufacturers. Mostly so far regarding their use of thimerosal (ethyl mercury) which enjoys going to places in the body like the spinal cord and brain (Alzheimer's anyone ?)

Quote"FEDS - $600 MIL. VACCINE LAWSUITS

Saturday, October 15, 2005 - FreeMarketNews.com

According to the government's own statistics, in this year alone, the Health Resources and Services Administration, of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, has paid out $57,589,828.07 to individuals and families of individuals who were killed or maimed by vaccinations.

Statistics show that since 1988, when the first payments were made, the total has been over $666 million, including repayment attorney's fees and court costs, in cases where the petitions were denied. The level of complaints has not been enormous, averaging only about 60-70 settlements each year out of between 500 and 1000 petitions, and 150 cases going to adjudication - however given the contention that vaccines are harmless, even these modest numbers raise sizeable questions. Additionaly, if there are regular complications from vaccines it is not at all certain that the individuals or families recognize it; thus many may not have chosen litigation who could have.

Interestingly, the numbers have risen, slowly but steadily, with last year's complete levels nearly doubling those of 2003. Meanwhile, for the as-yet-incomplete 2005, the number of petitions filed is already a little over half of last year's total. The cost to taxpayers cannot be minimized. - ST "

Do a google search and type in "vaccine lawsuits", you will get some reading material.

Oh yeah, one more thing to mention. Japan also used to immunize children with vaccines starting at 2 months old and up. But the cases of Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) was very alarming. So they made a change to switch the program age minimum to 2 years of age instead. The cases of SIDS dropped dramatically after that. I will have to find that article, it may be on mercola.com if I am not mistaken.

Thimerosal is only one toxic ingredient. Some contain aluminum phosphate or aluminum hydroxide, human aborted fetal tissue, formaldehyde, and the list goes on. Noone has a problem when it is mentioned that formaldehyde is in cigarettes and it causes problems, but we are getting injected with it in other ways. See the contradictories and double standards ? I am seeing this more and more in the food industry as well. It's getting sickening.

If you go to the US department of health website (www.hhs.gov), you can read about what they call a "Vaccine Injury compensation program" !!! Are we awake yet, would we need this type of compensation program if Vaccines were truly safe ??? The numbers are increasing, not decreasing. The truth is coming out, heads are gonna roll, sit back and watch the show.

Now, how about that Tamiflu shot ? I wouldn't trust it. The track records regarding these health hazards speak for themselves, we are being poisoned.

Parents, protect your children at all costs. Do your research.

[Ette]

Hello, I am new here. I read this online what I am about to tell you. This man interviewed a man who knows everything how the chickens are kept to the real facts. Now days, all we hear is about bird flu or avian flu it is the same thing. I'd like to tell you the factors that are REALLY involved here. First of all, when birds chickens anywhere in the world suddenly die these days there is a tendency to holler BIRD FLU. This has nothing to do with science. How are these chickens tested? No one knows! There are a number of GERMS that could be found in animals and none of these could be called BIRD FLU or AVIAN FLU. It is the same thing. But the strain that everyone is worried about is H5N1. Did they test for H5N1? If so, what test did they do? If it was an Antibody Test for H5N1 and if the test was positive , what does that mean? It means that the body of the animal( chicken etc) put out some antibodies ( immune system defense to the H5N1. Traditionally this indicates that the body was successful in warding off the germ, it certainly does not mean it died from H5N1. So the ANTIBODY TEST was useless. If researchers actually tried to find and directly isolate H5N1, in the body of chickens DID THEY FIND IT? as oppossed to some other FLU BUG? DID THEY ACTUALLY FIND IT? Yet, merely finding H5N1 is not enough. You now have to ask HOW MUCH H5N1 was found in the body of animal, A? B? C? Because it akes a whole lot MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF ANY GERMS TO EVEN BEGIN to think that germ was involved in causing illness in a body. And beyong that, you have to ask IF THE ANIMAL HAD TONS OF H5N1 in their body was the animal suffering from some prior illness? Was that animals (chickens etc) immune system already weakened? Now what would weaken an animal's immune system? Living in an animal farm where the animals are raised in crowded conditions, animal feces is everywhere and they dont get to roam around or get any sunshine and is subject to HEAVY ANTIBIOTIC DOSING on a REGULAR BASIS. You see what is going on here, it is the CONDITIONS. If you search public records on the internet for the history of animal epideics in various couries, you find an interesting expected thing. THEY HAPPEN ALLL THE TIME. They happen because of the CONDITIONS. Raising animals chickens in conventional facilities an INVITATION to EPIDEMICS OF BIRD FLU VIRUS, It is NOTHING NEW it HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. They sweep through periodically. Various germs are to blame, But it's not germs, it's the CONDITIONS. If you eliminate 10,20, 100 germs the EPIDEMICS for these chickens would still happen. Because the IMMUNE SYSTEM of the chickens are already weakened. One germ or another is going to flourish in these situations. What about wild animals? Again, you have to test very carefully. ANd you have to examine environmental conditions also for example, are the animals living near chemical smoke stacks, is their ***** polluted, is there chemical spraying where they live. But almost nobody cares about all these vital factors in testing. The news media does not scrutinize they just echo out announcements from the officials. As for so-called human cases of bird flu the same standard of testing should apply. But no evidence that this is so, They do not have any documents to prove this. So we are told that 60 people have died since April 2003. Yet even in these cases we have NO EVIDENCE< NO DOCUMENTS. No through testing has been done. Even the dullest person can realize that given all this the warnings of a GLOBAL FLU PANDEMIC that will kill 100 million is ABSURD, this is all about PROPAGANDA. It is all about GENOCIDE. I have more to write on another day. But bird flu can not MUTATE it is only in the animal kingdom. Use your logics here. The Spanish Flu was not a flu from spain. I will type you a letter about that and the scientist must have a gun to their heads to lie and say 1918 Flu was bird flu, that is not what caused people to die back there. I know Vaccines are very dangerous, I did my research about them in 2001, I wanted to know what caused MS and all those diseases... IT is from Vaccines, Vaccines weaken the immune system and induce diseases, take a look at all the TOXIC chemicals in there, ALZHEIMER comes from Vaccines and flu shots are a HOAX, the flu is just the common cold, we all get fevers to purge the junk in our systems... it is a money maker for the doctors and the drug companies, it is about MONEY... did you know GW BUSH and others have ALOT of money invested in drug companies. It is about MONEY and to get rid of 85% of the world's population. Not only that what did they say on the news the other day TAMIFLU shot, if you get injured they can not help you. INDICATION it is DANGEROUS. I think some people better go to DC and protest this tamiflu shot against bird flu because we know it can never mutate it is a scare tactic, they want to make money and destory people's lifes. The media is too gullible as I see some f the writers are here. IT can not mutate... your dog or cat or house bird gets a virus we never get it, because it is in the ANIMAL KINGDOM. I have written on other forums but the people are too dense to understand what is going on here. Vaccines are killing babies and pre school children die too and suffer from auto immune diseases and they make them get vaccines in the miltary. I know all about MS. I was my husbands care giver for 3 years it destroyed him and he did die from it. Say no to FLU SHOTS SAY NO TO Vaccines. It is TIME for all of us to stand up for our rights NOW. Spread the news. Thank you. Ette

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by Iraqi-Investments

Exactly,

Sadly, this is a serious issue that some want to make light of. Remember, 50M people died from similar flu, and if you don't think it can't happen again, you are not thinking. If it was a scare tactic to sell more flu shots, as one suggested, then explain why there is little flu shot serum available in US, and it is only produced outside of NA, so that comment on selling flu shots doesn't hold true.

So what flu killed 50M people ?

Sure, the company that produces the original Tamiflu is based is Switzerland. After the rights were sold to them by Rumsfeld's Gilead. There are more foreign companies jumping on the bandwagon as well.(Taiwan company). Another similar drug called Relenza is produced by GlaxoSmithKline which is a UK company. The fear and uncertainty has been planted. Let the pillaging begin.

Interesting though that there are ties regarding these foreign drug companies to the US. See quote below

"UK drugs giants Glaxo Wellcome and SmithKline Beecham have had their plans to merge cleared by the US Federal Trade Commission.
The go-ahead is the final hurdle for the deal which creates one of the UK's largest companies, trailing in value only Vodafone and, with a market value of £120bn, almost identical in size to BP.

GlaxoSmithKline will be headed by Jean-Pierre Garnier, currently number two at SmithKline, who takes the role of chief executive while Glaxo chief Sir Richard Sykes is to be non-executive chairman.

Its headquarters will be in London, while its operational base will be in the US.

It will be listed on 27 December on both the London and New York stock exchanges.

The new company will have an annual research and development budget of £2.4bn, the largest in the world." BBC news Dec 18 2000

So look at how foreign UK companies have to get FTC approval before they can merge ? I suspect ties indeed. Same goes for Roche, which has ties with Gilead, which is clearly American, as Gilead world headquarters is in California.

So what if the Tamiflu is produced outside of America ? The government is still using taxpayer money to order the flu shots.

And maybe people may get the Avian flu virus, which will be due to lower immune systems from eating too much sugars and manufactured corn syrups in many products used today. I would work on eliminating that and increasing healthy raw foods or herbs to build the immune system and increase ***** consumption to flush toxins out of the body.

The immune system can be built up by the healthy choices in foods, OR lowered by the wrong choices. Even greater suppression of the immune system happens when drugs are introduced.

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by spamsquatch69

You ever eaten fish?

That's a good point you brought up. We rarely, if ever, eat fish and absolutely no shellfish. (fish with fins and scales if anything at all) They are finding high contents of mercury in some fish. Shellfish is the worst in my books. See FDA website for info on mercury contaminated seafood.

People should also be aware that seafood, in my opinion, is a risk to eat. I have read about people who have died when eating clams. There is supposedly a safe time and unsafe time to consume clams. I just avoid it anyway. The FDA and EPA want to make sure that pregnant women especially avoid the risks when considering consumption of seafood.

[lexx]

Originally Posted by boone

You are welcome, no problem. And you are correct, once again!

hey boone!!if you dont mind,couldya explain ya avatar to me!?i'm curious.you can PM me if it's a private thing. :D

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by TruthHurts

People would respond if you had ANYTHING intelligent to say.

I presume then that your intelligence is not based on education but on assumptions ?

[boone]

Interesting thread- very interesting indeed-y (and not because someone took interest in my avatar!) This is the first time I've clicked into this thread in a while. Want to add something of relevance.

First, to answer Lexx's question (thanks for asking!) re: my avatar- guess I never had to give it much thought, but I suppose I like certain meaningful symbols, and symbolism. Not a private thing. When I saw it, I liked it. Time to analyze, I guess- and so I apologize ahead of time, but you asked! LOL. I like crosses, and the meaning behind them. I have a gold color Christian fish on the back of my car. I love dreamcatchers. The Mack truck dog, eagles, and wolves all mean something to me. The American flag, the peace dove, the Chevy emblem, certain band emblems, shields- all cool. As for the meaning behind the avatar, I suppose it depicts a certain type of protection. It means, I could say, have faith in our Maker, and profess that He that died for our sins- that helps to carry a person through this cold world. It's one reason why I like the "divine intervention" thread that war_man started not too long ago- it goes hand in hand with that. After all, there is a "war" that goes on daily, and people have to make choices that always have consequences and/or rewards. Each person decides for themself. The "war," the way I see it, is between good and evil, and each person should decide to stand for something. Also, I do like black. I relate to anger and blackness. We all have dark times in life, but make sure to pick the right things to help cope and overcome. The flowers and swords mean prevailing and strength in times of weakness...I guess that is enough for details! Does that all make sense!?!?!

Back to the topic: I cannot remember the source, but here's another tidbit that's probably true: any person who receives 5 or more flu shots in their lifetime is 50% more apt to develop Alzheimer's. That disgusts me. My gramma is wasting away in a nursing home- we slowly lost her over a number of years; she turned into a empty shell of a woman. And she is one of my favorite people in the world. To see her cognitive ability and memory go down the tubes was devastating- was helpless to do something. The doctors figured it's Alzheimer's. And now since I have come to know what to do about it, it is too late. I researched it...aluminum build-up in the brain is what is found during autopsies of people who had it. I do not use any aluminum foil, or drink from aluminum cans. Aluminum cookware, no way. The aluminum leaches into food, especially if there is sugar present. If it is in food with sugar, then it passes through to the brain (the blood brain barrier) much easier. Also, table salt is baked to dry it, and they add aluminum (and iodine) to it before putting it in the ovens! Baking the salt kills the 60 or so essential minerals that our body needs; plus, mix some table salt in *****, and see if it totally dissolves- it won't, because there is aluminum present. We use sun-dried sea-salt. Nutrients intact and no toxic metal.

I detoxify and leach metals and toxins out of my system with fresh-made carrot juice. (I have a Juiceman juicer). From what I understand, because the fiber is removed and the body doesn't have to work hard with digestion, the carrot juice is readily available and cleans out every cell. It can't be stored as the nutrients leave quickly. (Store-bought juices have little nutritional value as they are processed several days or weeks before consumption- and all the preservatives don't help). I know of someone who got rid of cancer by juicing veggies daily, mainly carrots, and getting rid of processed food in her diet. She is alive today, after doctors gave her 6 mos. to live. I know someone else who shrunk her brain tumor- really! The doctors are amazed with this, too- this all done with natural means. Her last MRI showed that the tumor was down to a small crescent-shape- when she was diagnosed, it was about the same as a golf-ball.

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by boone

Interesting thread- very interesting indeed-y (and not because someone took interest in my avatar!) This is the first time I've clicked into this thread in a while. Want to add something of relevance.

First, to answer Lexx's question (thanks for asking!) re: my avatar- guess I never had to give it much thought, but I suppose I like certain meaningful symbols, and symbolism. Not a private thing. When I saw it, I liked it. Time to analyze, I guess- and so I apologize ahead of time, but you asked! LOL. I like crosses, and the meaning behind them. I have a gold color Christian fish on the back of my car. I love dreamcatchers. The Mack truck dog, eagles, and wolves all mean something to me. The American flag, the peace dove, the Chevy emblem, certain band emblems, shields- all cool. As for the meaning behind the avatar, I suppose it depicts a certain type of protection. It means, I could say, have faith in our Maker, and profess that He that died for our sins- that helps to carry a person through this cold world. It's one reason why I like the "divine intervention" thread that war_man started not too long ago- it goes hand in hand with that. After all, there is a "war" that goes on daily, and people have to make choices that always have consequences and/or rewards. Each person decides for themself. The "war," the way I see it, is between good and evil, and each person should decide to stand for something. Also, I do like black. I relate to anger and blackness. We all have dark times in life, but make sure to pick the right things to help cope and overcome. The flowers and swords mean prevailing and strength in times of weakness...I guess that is enough for details! Does that all make sense!?!?!

Back to the topic: I cannot remember the source, but here's another tidbit that's probably true: any person who receives 5 or more flu shots in their lifetime is 50% more apt to develop Alzheimer's. That disgusts me. My gramma is wasting away in a nursing home- we slowly lost her over a number of years; she turned into a empty shell of a woman. And she is one of my favorite people in the world. To see her cognitive ability and memory go down the tubes was devastating- was helpless to do something. The doctors figured it's Alzheimer's. And now since I have come to know what to do about it, it is too late. I researched it...aluminum build-up in the brain is what is found during autopsies of people who had it. I do not use any aluminum foil, or drink from aluminum cans. Aluminum cookware, no way. The aluminum leaches into food, especially if there is sugar present. If it is in food with sugar, then it passes through to the brain (the blood brain barrier) much easier. Also, table salt is baked to dry it, and they add aluminum (and iodine) to it before putting it in the ovens! Baking the salt kills the 60 or so essential minerals that our body needs; plus, mix some table salt in *****, and see if it totally dissolves- it won't, because there is aluminum present. We use sun-dried sea-salt. Nutrients intact and no toxic metal.

I detoxify and leach metals and toxins out of my system with fresh-made carrot juice. (I have a Juiceman juicer). From what I understand, because the fiber is removed and the body doesn't have to work hard with digestion, the carrot juice is readily available and cleans out every cell. It can't be stored as the nutrients leave quickly. (Store-bought juices have little nutritional value as they are processed several days or weeks before consumption- and all the preservatives don't help). I know of someone who got rid of cancer by juicing veggies daily, mainly carrots, and getting rid of processed food in her diet. She is alive today, after doctors gave her 6 mos. to live. I know someone else who shrunk her brain tumor- really! The doctors are amazed with this, too- this all done with natural means. Her last MRI showed that the tumor was down to a small crescent-shape- when she was diagnosed, it was about the same as a golf-ball.

I believe that the Thimerosal (ethyl mercury) that was in most vaccines and immunization shots, has a role in Alzheimer's as well. The brain and the spinal cord is the favorite hiding spots for mercury in the body, from what I have read. The interesting coincidence was that they stated they were no longer putting the thimerosal in the vaccines (now that the public knows) but they weren't going to destroy or dispose of the current batches of vaccines they had on hand. So now there is that gray area where a person has no idea as to whether or not they are taking a vaccine with thimerosal or one which doesn't have it.

If the pharmaceutical companies were truly looking out for our health rather than profit, they would have destroyed the thimerosal laced vaccines. But they had other plans to use up the current supply in America or to even ship them to third world countries to use them on people over there. Isn't that sick ? Since the American people learned about it here, the *****s that be will push them on a place like Africa and not blink an eye at it. See something here ??? It shows me that the pharmaceutical companies really are in it for the money only.

My grandmother and my wife's grandmother both have Alzheimer's. My wife sent down some nutritional supplements for her grandmother to use and she was actually improving. The problem was, she didn't change her day to day activities and nutrition in conjunction with taking the supplements. The supplements will only do so much. It just goes to show that they can work, although the price is usually the determining factor as to why people quit using them. Some of them are not even all that natural.

It is good to see that people can get results just by juicing carrots and the main thing that needs to be seen; eliminating the processed foods and other types that we eat from the commercialized industries. We need to get back to as natural of food as possible to be healthy. We have a juicer as well.
Thanks for the info Boone :)

[boone]

You are welcome, Rawb! I wish you, your wife, and your family many years of healthy living! I am sorry to hear about your gramma's- it is hard to deal with, and yeah, an up-hill battle to implement change. My husband's gramma has had alzheimer's for a while, and I share ideas on what could help- well, almost nothing implemented- we'll see. Guess I should trying to assert myself more with tact, w/o being pushy.

Like I stated in another thread, I will not get mercury fillings anymore. When we go to the dentist, we get the white composite fillings. Also, we just bought "Aluminum-free baking powder" the other day- found it at our grocery store. It is Rumford brand, and just in case you do not have a local store that carries it, their site is http://www.rumfordworld.com (I better go check it out and see what else they offer!) I would of went to a health food store or where ever need be, to find it.

I am shocked that baking powder has aluminum in it- check the label, bet ya dollars to donuts if you have baking powder in the cupboard, it's listed.

It is also listed in the ingredients label of many packaged bakery goods- those innocent-looking yummy treats have a poison in them- what a dirty, rotten shame; how many other toxins and poisons, also, I wonder. Really makes me mad the fact that the public is getting duped.

[boone]

....Oh, and where are my manners (?!??) Thanks, Rawb, for the info. you provided!

[Rawb]

Thank you Boone, it seems you are well on the road to making changes for the better. For you and your family. :) Thank you for providing us with some info to change to other safer products as well.

Other sources of aluminum I have discovered; this doesn't mean all of what I listed. It just means for anyone to pay attention to the ingredients and think twice before sitting down at a cafe and sipping a latte without knowing what the source of ingredients are... if one values their health to prevent Alzheimer's from even starting.

Some hot chocolate mixes
cappuchino mixes (french vanilla, english toffee, mocha etc...)
some vitamins

Now the common one I have seen is called " Aluminum silicate"
At any rate, anything that has aluminum as a prefix, should be avoided. We don't need to eat metal. There are more useful and safer purposes for it.

[Bluesman]

Rawb I am with ya all the way on this.

I have refused immunization against pretty much everything since I was a young child. I watch people getting flu shots and still get sick while I remain healthy. Unfortunately my parents got every shot available every year and they still got sick all the time. Both my parents died within a month of getting a flu shot. Coincidence? Who knows for sure?

FDA, medical assc., pharmacueticals, etc... = $BIG$$BUCKS$ - don't kid yourself people - it is real ugly! Do your homework people. Demand more from our "cherished" leaders. Make them fully accountable, by making yourself fully accountable! Never stop digging or you're sure to be prematurely planted!

WE ARE BEING HOSED! WAKE UP! Stop just trusting and believing. Do your homework and the truth shall make you angry... at least it is a start!

[Bluesman]

Flouride is made from aluminium tailings! It does absolutely nothing, zilch to prevent cavities! What it does do is deteriorate your BRAIN! Exactly playing into a parasitical, predatory elite class of so-called authority (exterior) easily feeding off of our blind faith and stupidity.

We need some real accountability people. Not belief in exterior authority that only wants you to lay down trusting them.

We, the people are nothing but considered as cattle to be polluted, deluded, and recruited for easy milking and draining! In fact the above mentioned tenary is totally responsible for the masses rejection in the exposure of such!

[Judy Hart]

OK. Want an education? http://www.nomercury.org/
Go through this site, ALL OF IT. My son was born in 1997, he recieved 187.5mcg. of ethyl mercury in 12 months. He is autistic. In the section listed "science" watch the seminar by Boyd Haley PhD. Aluminium is potentiated by mercury. The mixture is deadly. The vaccine compensation program is funded by a sur-tax on vaccines, it is tax payer funded. Vaccine makers have never and will never pay a penny for the damage done to countless thousands. The national rate of autism is 1:166. Testosterone (I never could spell thet word) also potentiates mercury. that's why boys are 6:1 more likely to be autistic.
If this doesn't make you sick nothing will. Here are a few more links:
http://www.autismmedia.org/media10.html
http://www.909shot.com/
http://www.chem.cmu.edu/wakefield/
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-2-12/38076.html
Read "Evidence of Harm" by David Kirby
If you think you are chelating metals from your body with carrot juice you're nuts.
Aluminium=EDTA
Mercury=DMPS, DMSA or TTFD
Cadinium=DMSA
Tin=EDTA, DMSA
Coal miners that get mercury toxic spend the day in a Far infared sauna, works like the old indian sweat lodge.
The pending law suits against vaccine makers are the result of a group of parents that figured out the thimerasol connection & obtained the simpsonwood transcripts through the freedom of information act. Here is the link to them:
http://www.safeminds.org/
Thimerasol is a preservative, not a vaccine, so it isn't covered in the language of the law.
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/OSM/AutismDocket.htm
There will be a march in DC the 1st week of April. "The Mercury Generation March"
Kids are being recovered from autism, mine is much better, remove the mercury, the child gets better....go figure.
For every study that or govt. paid for that denies a link to thimerasol (there are 5) there are 150 that prove the link is there.
Dig in & LEARN. That flu shot has 25mcg of mercury (provided it's not a hot lot, the nurse shakes the vial, ect...)
Oh yea, the MMR does not list thimerasol because it is supposed to be removed in processing, bull....we sent a lot to Dr. Haley, its there.

[boone]

Call me nuts, then...I AM taking other measures to clean out toxins and metals, but fresh carrot juice, I believe, at least helps- big time. It is very nutritious, readily-absorbed, and won't do any harm...ONLY GOOD.

[Judy Hart]

Originally Posted by boone

Call me nuts, then...I AM taking other measures to clean out toxins and metals, but fresh carrot juice, I believe, at least helps- big time. It is very nutritious, readily-absorbed, and won't do any harm...ONLY GOOD.

If you want to chelate mercury try ALA, reduced glutihione, methelcobolimine, high dose vitamin C & cystine. & selenium. A chemist that has worked in heavy metal detox gave me this tip. It works. We sent a urine sample to a reference lab and the mercury was off the chart. Pouring out. Vitamin C has a very strong +, mercury- they bond very nicely. Thr gluthionine level is boosted, facilitating methinine synthase & methelation. You detox on your own.

[Jackie]

I agree with Boone, there's nothing better than a glass of organic carrot juice daily to build up your system. I haven't had a cold or 'flu in 30 years or anything else for that matter and put that down to my Vegan diet loaded with lots of fresh veggies and fruit.

[boone]

Bravo, Jackie, Bravo! More ***** to ya! If I could I would propose a toast, fresh carrot juice in hand, and say, "To Your Health!" ;)

[BAILEYSCREAMS_REVENGE]

Originally Posted by Rawb

One thing I would like to add is; why is it that whenever there is a flu shot available and people line up to take it, the ones that get sick are the ones who received the flu shots? Interesting... I never get the flu shots and I don't get the flus going around. Our kids have never been vaccinated or immunized and they don't get the sicknesses either. And we are always around the ones that do get sick..

I think we are forgetting about the mercury as well? There are many harmful ingredients in vaccines. Heavy metals, formaldehyde, human aborted fetal tissue, lots of other goodies. When the EPA states that humans are to have no contact with mercury as it is not safe at all, why would it be in vaccines? I haven't looked up, if it is even available, the ingredients of the Tamiflu vaccine. Maybe I should or if anyone has it readily available...

We just sheepishly take whatever anyone says is effective without even checking things out for ourselves. At $100 a pop, I would want to know. My health is worth more than that.

Interesting as someone above pointed out, the problem isn't even here yet and they are selling vaccines. How do you treat it if the problem isn't even here? I guess they are trying to make them preventative now? Another post pointed out as well, instead of getting rid of the problem BEFORE it gets here, they are just waiting for it to arrive and deal with it then. Hurricane Katrina showed the effects of that strategy. Why wait until the Avain flu hits ? Moneymoneymoneymoneymoney$$$$$$$$$ it's all about the money.

Now I have to agree with the bolded statement. A few years back I took a flu vaccine recommended by my doctor and I was constantly suffering from increased phlegm production for about a year after I took the vaccine. I have not taken any other flu shots ever since that horrible episode. Of course it's worth noting that some drugs affect people in different ways. While some of the population will suffer adverse effects, some people will not, so it's worth weighing up the pros and cons before take any drug.

I now use alternative and natural remedies, which can work just as effectively if not better at building the immune system and fighting off bacterial and viral infections.

[spinedoc]

Great post RAWB. I do agree with you on vaccines. Read Barbara Lowe Fischer's book, "A shot in the dark." Pretty crazy on how things work out in the government's financial favor. Also, mercury is an ingredient in some vaccines that do cause other illnesses.

[spinedoc]

Well put. The problem is not disease and viruses and bacteria. They will always be around mutating into different forms not responding to meds and vaccines. We do not need to think about ridding ourselves of these problems, we need to think about being healthier and guess what, when you are healthier you can fight off the unwanted sicknesses. Germs do not make you sick. It is the decrease in the immune system that allows the already present bacteria to flourish. We did a throat culture in chiro school and found that everyone had some type or form of virus or bacteria, i.e. staph, strep, and not to mention e coli in the intestinal flora. If we already have these viruses in our system, then why are we not always sick? Hint: It is not the viruses, it is the overproduction due to lack of immunity.

[Jackie]

Thanks for the link http://www.cspinet.org/olestra/ . It has given me some more ammo to put in my emails as I and thousands of others have boycotted Procter & Gamble for years because of their testing on animals.

Apart from the cruelty of animal testing who says with our different DNA that the products won't kill or maim us ? Remember Thalidomide.

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by Jackie

Thanks for the link http://www.cspinet.org/olestra/ . It has given me some more ammo to put in my emails as I and thousands of others have boycotted Procter & Gamble for years because of their testing on animals.

Apart from the cruelty of animal testing who says with our different DNA that the products won't kill or maim us ? Remember Thalidomide.

There's also about 80,000 chemicals being used today in our personal care products that have never been tested for human safety. Chemicals are just bad news. It's appalling to see how many things have been corrupted today.

[Rawb]

I decided to post this over on this thread as well. It is from the other bird flu thread

MARCH 8, 2006. I've written pretty much all I have to on this subject, at least for the present. But the announcement today by David Nabarro (World Health Organization, WHO)) that bird flu is coming to the US within a year prompts me to review a few facts.

First of all, about two months ago, I connected with Dr. Nabarro. He is the chief honcho at WHO on bird flu. I left a message on his machine, asking him exactly what diagnostic tests had been run on the children in Turkey who died. How was it found that they had H5N1 bird flu? He returned the call and left a message on my voice mail. He basically said this was not his area, which I found quite surprising, and he left an email address for another doctor at WHO. That email address didn't work.

Now, let's be clear. Every single diagnosis of bird flu in an animal or human comes straight out of some kind of lab test. They are using fluid from the body, and they are sending it to a lab, and the lab is testing for the presence of the H5N1 virus.

Without that test, it's all guess and eyeball and assumption and caving into pressure from medical bureaucrats to announce bird flu.

The kind of test they're doing is crucial, because...

Most of the tests are irrelevant.

Sorry.

That's just the way it is.

You have your antibody test, which at best tells you that the person or animal has contacted the H5N1 virus. Contacted it. That's all. Not "got sick from it." In fact, traditionally, a positive test for antibodies means the person's immune system successfully warded off the germ.

However, in the topsy-turvy world of nutso medicine, the meaning of this test has been turned on its head. It has been automatically taken to mean "got sick" or "is sick" or "will get sick." Nonsense.

Astonishingly, this type of antibody test is the one done most often on animals around the world, and it is often done on humans.

Then we have the PCR test. This one involves finding what you think is a tiny, tiny, tiny amount of genetic material from a germ, and it involves blowing that fragment up many times, so to speak---amplifying it---so you can infer what that germ really is.

This is supposed to be a gold standard of tests. However, it has a fatal flaw when it comes to the actual diagnosis of disease. Why did you need that test? Because by other means, you couldn't find millions and millions of whole germs of a particular kind in the body of the chicken or the human. You couldn't find them. And you know what? You need millions and millions of a particular kind of germ to even BEGIN to say that that germ is contributing to the illness of the animal or human. So if you say, "We did a PCR on this little boy and we found H5N1 and so he has the bird flu," you're talking out of your ear.

The two tests I've briefly described here are used very often.

Their results are misinterpreted all over the place.

The garble and the wild predictions and ominous warnings about bird flu are ultimately coming out of diagnostic tests done in labs---and the final backup for these tests is WHO, worldwide. So why don't they publish widely the COMPLETE info on all those tests---what tests were run, what the findings were, and so on, in EVERY CASE? I know where my money is, if we're betting on the answer to that question.

Now these days, most people are talking about the mutation or possible mutation of the H5N1 virus that will, soon, allow it to infect humans all over the world. That's the angle. That's the popular premise.

What I'm saying is, hold on. Let's go to the scorecard. Let's just go to the labs and find out what tests they ran and how they ran them to determine people (only about 100 worldwide!) and a whole bunch of birds have died of H5N1 bird flu. Let's do the simplest thing, and the most important thing.

Why? Again, because the most popular tests are completely misleading when it comes to diagnosis. It's that stark.

When I wrote about AIDS in 1988, I asked for that same analysis. I did, and other people did. And the result was, we exposed one of the biggest scandals of 20th-century science.

Yes, this fraud runs very deep.

I understand that, as of this date, WHO refuses to publish even the complete genetic make-up of the H5N1 virus. If they're holding that back, or if they have cheated and don't know what they're really doing, or if they're telling major lies on purpose, don't hold your breath for the day when they'll release every single test for H5N1 they have run on animals and humans since the hysteria began.

Can you say hoax?

JON RAPPOPORT www.nomorefakenews.com

[Ronniesav]

I don't see any shred of credible evidence that would make me think any of you people in this thread had one ounce of factual knowledge to stand on in this whole conspiracy argument! I was intriqued by the title of the thread, so I took a look.. I was extremely dismayed to see that everybody in here is agreeing on shreds of truth and propaganda !! It is absolutely amazing.. has anyone in here even had a college Bio I course ?? I'm just curious. I mean, most of your arguments seem to point that man is somehow able to control nature in some manner, which is completely ludicrous! Is the government out to get us? Maybe. Are they trying to make us spend money we don't have? Perhaps. Do pharmaceutical companies release drugs that contain things later found to be harmful? Sure (in fact, you can find an example for every industry out there that has had to change something because it was inefficient or found harmful in some way or another). You people are buying into the idea that these companies are intentionally setting out to kill you or harm you in some way. Why the heck would they want you to do that? It would make more sense (hypothetically speaking of course) if you all believed that every drug made had some sort of "special" addiction chemical added so you had to take it forever thus increasing profits.. Needless to say I'm pretty shocked at what I've read so far in this thread, I don't even know what else to say. I'm pretty positive that none of this will sink in with you as it seems you are all conspiracy zealots, I just thought there should be someone on here with some shred of reasoning ability. Maybe someone in here could talk about how bubonic plague was a hoax too, that would be interesting.

[spanky]

Originally Posted by Ronniesav

I don't see any shred of credible evidence that would make me think any of you people in this thread had one ounce of factual knowledge to stand on in this whole conspiracy argument! I was intriqued by the title of the thread, so I took a look.. I was extremely dismayed to see that everybody in here is agreeing on shreds of truth and propaganda !! It is absolutely amazing.. has anyone in here even had a college Bio I course ?? I'm just curious. I mean, most of your arguments seem to point that man is somehow able to control nature in some manner, which is completely ludicrous! Is the government out to get us? Maybe. Are they trying to make us spend money we don't have? Perhaps. Do pharmaceutical companies release drugs that contain things later found to be harmful? Sure (in fact, you can find an example for every industry out there that has had to change something because it was inefficient or found harmful in some way or another). You people are buying into the idea that these companies are intentionally setting out to kill you or harm you in some way. Why the heck would they want you to do that? It would make more sense (hypothetically speaking of course) if you all believed that every drug made had some sort of "special" addiction chemical added so you had to take it forever thus increasing profits.. Needless to say I'm pretty shocked at what I've read so far in this thread, I don't even know what else to say. I'm pretty positive that none of this will sink in with you as it seems you are all conspiracy zealots, I just thought there should be someone on here with some shred of reasoning ability. Maybe someone in here could talk about how bubonic plague was a hoax too, that would be interesting.

Be very glad that you have not been ME for the past two days! :)

I have had to take a mandatory course in Food Safety--and oh
my dear, if you only KNEW what I have known and now absolutely
know...well, you perhaps would NEVER eat in a restaurant again
in your entire life! :)

(Don't ask...the truth would really put a huge damper on your
party times-dining out pleasures!:) )

All of those flu-like symptoms you and yours have been experiencing
are not the flu...there are food-born illnesses that mimic those
symptoms...and some will cause death.

At home are you really checking the internal temperatures of the
poultry, meat, and fish that you are eating and serving to your
family?

[Ronniesav]

Originally Posted by spanky

Be very glad that you have not been ME for the past two days! :)

I have had to take a mandatory course in Food Safety--and oh
my dear, if you only KNEW what I have known and now absolutely
know...well, you perhaps would NEVER eat in a restaurant again
in your entire life! :)

(Don't ask...the truth would really put a huge damper on your
party times-dining out pleasures!:) )

All of those flu-like symptoms you and yours have been experiencing
are not the flu...there are food-born illnesses that mimic those
symptoms...and some will cause death.

At home are you really checking the internal temperatures of the
poultry, meat, and fish that you are eating and serving to your
family?

While this is an insightful post, it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread really. And yes, my gf has had the same course you are talking about, so yes I know :) When you say "food-borne illness" though, what is really meant are bacteria that may be carried inside the food, whatever it may be, usually of an animal origin.. that's why they tell you to cook your meats in proper specifications etc.. not to leave food out after it's been cooked for too long, how long things last in the fridge.. etc etc.. Bacteria is everywhere folks, in the air, on your shoes, on your hands...

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by Ronniesav

I don't see any shred of credible evidence that would make me think any of you people in this thread had one ounce of factual knowledge to stand on in this whole conspiracy argument! I was intriqued by the title of the thread, so I took a look.. I was extremely dismayed to see that everybody in here is agreeing on shreds of truth and propaganda !! It is absolutely amazing.. has anyone in here even had a college Bio I course ?? I'm just curious. I mean, most of your arguments seem to point that man is somehow able to control nature in some manner, which is completely ludicrous! Is the government out to get us? Maybe. Are they trying to make us spend money we don't have? Perhaps. Do pharmaceutical companies release drugs that contain things later found to be harmful? Sure (in fact, you can find an example for every industry out there that has had to change something because it was inefficient or found harmful in some way or another). You people are buying into the idea that these companies are intentionally setting out to kill you or harm you in some way. Why the heck would they want you to do that? It would make more sense (hypothetically speaking of course) if you all believed that every drug made had some sort of "special" addiction chemical added so you had to take it forever thus increasing profits.. Needless to say I'm pretty shocked at what I've read so far in this thread, I don't even know what else to say. I'm pretty positive that none of this will sink in with you as it seems you are all conspiracy zealots, I just thought there should be someone on here with some shred of reasoning ability. Maybe someone in here could talk about how bubonic plague was a hoax too, that would be interesting.

Obviously you have never read the book "The truth about the drug companies" ? The author was with the New England journal of medicine for over 20 years. She is one source, as another one is Dr. Mercola, and Dr. Horowitz see;

www.mercola.com

www.tetrahedron.org

Vaccines and immunization shots DO NOT prevent disease. I read a book from a religion that is over 150 years old that states that food has every bit to do with why people get sick in the first place, and drugs (artificial synthetic garbage that the body doesn't recognize) only masks the symptoms, and give us temporary relief. So if drugs etc... work so well, I don't see them curing people of their disease or sickness, and they actually get more side effects!! What an effective system we have here. Why take them ???

On the other hand, I see courses and various seminars where people follow the program and they change to eating more raw foods (natural from nature like the body needs) and change their lifestyle habits (exercise, fresh air, etc..) and voila! some people are off medication within 30-60 days, have more ******, sleep better, lose weight, reverse many diseases and the list goes on. I would much rather recommend people do just that rather than take life suppressing drugs.

Anyone can observe by looking at others that drugs/vaccines/immunization shots are useless. The foods we eat initially make us sick and suppress the immune system. Who are the ones that always get sick ? The ones who take the medical systems medications. Since I watch what I eat and never take any drugs, I never get sick. And I am ALWAYS around people who have the flu and every other sickness every year. I breathe the same air while they are coughing and hacking etc... I guess it goes to show that abstaining from sugar on a large scale does definitely help. When I ate lots of sugar, I got sick a few times a year.

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by Ronniesav

While this is an insightful post, it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread really. And yes, my gf has had the same course you are talking about, so yes I know :) When you say "food-borne illness" though, what is really meant are bacteria that may be carried inside the food, whatever it may be, usually of an animal origin.. that's why they tell you to cook your meats in proper specifications etc.. not to leave food out after it's been cooked for too long, how long things last in the fridge.. etc etc.. Bacteria is everywhere folks, in the air, on your shoes, on your hands...

And at the same time, God made us so we can handle all the bacteria around us, as long as we aren't consuming substances that suppress our immune systems. Like I said before, eating more raw produce, drinking ***** and getting the fresh air and exercise on a DAILY basis does more good for our immune system than drugs/vaccines/immunization shots.

[Ronniesav]

Originally Posted by Rawb

Obviously you have never read the book "The truth about the drug companies" ? The author was with the New England journal of medicine for over 20 years. She is one source, as another one is Dr. Mercola, and Dr. Horowitz see;

www.mercola.com

www.tetrahedron.org

Vaccines and immunization shots DO NOT prevent disease. I read a book from a religion that is over 150 years old that states that food has every bit to do with why people get sick in the first place, and drugs (artificial synthetic garbage that the body doesn't recognize) only masks the symptoms, and give us temporary relief. So if drugs etc... work so well, I don't see them curing people of their disease or sickness, and they actually get more side effects!! What an effective system we have here. Why take them ???

On the other hand, I see courses and various seminars where people follow the program and they change to eating more raw foods (natural from nature like the body needs) and change their lifestyle habits (exercise, fresh air, etc..) and voila! some people are off medication within 30-60 days, have more ******, sleep better, lose weight, reverse many diseases and the list goes on. I would much rather recommend people do just that rather than take life suppressing drugs.

Anyone can observe by looking at others that drugs/vaccines/immunization shots are useless. The foods we eat initially make us sick and suppress the immune system. Who are the ones that always get sick ? The ones who take the medical systems medications. Since I watch what I eat and never take any drugs, I never get sick. And I am ALWAYS around people who have the flu and every other sickness every year. I breathe the same air while they are coughing and hacking etc... I guess it goes to show that abstaining from sugar on a large scale does definitely help. When I ate lots of sugar, I got sick a few times a year.

While I understand how some people buy into things quickly because they know nothing about the subject beforehand, or simply because they find whoever wrote the material to be credible because they have some educational distinction. The sad fact of the matter is that not everyone is right about everything, and many Doctors disagree about numerous things. The same can be said about all health professionals. Point being, I wouldn't just take something for gospel just because "so and so" wrote it. Did you believe the Da Vinci code too ? I also think it's interesting that each website you linked to there was something to buy there..

Now, I never mentioned anything about exercising and eating right. That will definitely go along way for people insofar as their general health goes. If everyone ate properly and exercised sufficiently we'd definitely be a healthier country overall, however, would we be diseaese/sickness free? Of course not, that's nearly impossible. It's one thing to say that eating better and exercising help us all out overall, and it's another to say that medicine hasn't done sqaut for us, that's just plain ignorance. One prime example, which happened to be the first vaccine ever.. Smallpox. If it weren't for vaccines, who knows how many would die every year due to smallpox, especially with bioterrorism on the rise ! If you don't think smallpox works, I have a challenge for you.. go ahead and take a buddy, make sure he's vaccinated for smallpox, then you go in a room with a sample of it in an envelope and you two handle it both. See who comes out with/without the disease !!

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by Ronniesav

While I understand how some people buy into things quickly because they know nothing about the subject beforehand, or simply because they find whoever wrote the material to be credible because they have some educational distinction. The sad fact of the matter is that not everyone is right about everything, and many Doctors disagree about numerous things. The same can be said about all health professionals. Point being, I wouldn't just take something for gospel just because "so and so" wrote it. Did you believe the Da Vinci code too ? I also think it's interesting that each website you linked to there was something to buy there..

Now, I never mentioned anything about exercising and eating right. That will definitely go along way for people insofar as their general health goes. If everyone ate properly and exercised sufficiently we'd definitely be a healthier country overall, however, would we be diseaese/sickness free? Of course not, that's nearly impossible. It's one thing to say that eating better and exercising help us all out overall, and it's another to say that medicine hasn't done sqaut for us, that's just plain ignorance. One prime example, which happened to be the first vaccine ever.. Smallpox. If it weren't for vaccines, who knows how many would die every year due to smallpox, especially with bioterrorism on the rise ! If you don't think smallpox works, I have a challenge for you.. go ahead and take a buddy, make sure he's vaccinated for smallpox, then you go in a room with a sample of it in an envelope and you two handle it both. See who comes out with/without the disease !!

Vaccines are only as good as their ingredients testify. You will have a hard time convincing people that ethyl mercury or aluminum is going to keep them safe from small pox. If they are scared of small pox and get their yearly vaccines, I guess Alzheimer's or Parkinson's will be the replacement instead. Mercury, when injected into the body usually ends up in the brain or spinal cord. Great, right ? Big pharma knows what they are doing. The thing is, people are finally waking up and finding out for themselves. That is a good thing. The wool is being lifted from around the eyes.

www.pcrm.org

[Ronniesav]

Originally Posted by Rawb

Vaccines are only as good as their ingredients testify. You will have a hard time convincing people that ethyl mercury or aluminum is going to keep them safe from small pox. If they are scared of small pox and get their yearly vaccines, I guess Alzheimer's or Parkinson's will be the replacement instead. Mercury, when injected into the body usually ends up in the brain or spinal cord. Great, right ? Big pharma knows what they are doing. The thing is, people are finally waking up and finding out for themselves. That is a good thing. The wool is being lifted from around the eyes.

www.pcrm.org

Rawb, you are so mislead my man.. Where do you pick this stuff up from? I know sometimes it seems cooler or more feasible to buy into the conspiracy ideas, but give it a little free thought. Do some homework on the subject, and don't just turn to these propaganda led websites for your information!

The smallpox vaccine contains purified, concentrated freeze-dried calf lymph. Antibiotics called polymyxin B sulfate, dihydrostreptomycin sulfate, chlortetracycline hydrochloride, and neomycin sulfate are added during processing and trace amounts may be in the final product. The diluting fluid for smallpox vaccine contains 50% glycerin, with 0.25% phenol in sterile ***** for injection, USP. Once rehydrated, the vaccine contains approximately 100 million infectious vaccinia viruses per milliliter, with 100 doses per vial.