disciples cross

[pbirming]

I found this home business on a search i was doing and wondered if anyone had heard of them bad or good. I feel good about them but want to be on the safe side.If I hear nothing bad Im going to give it a try and I will post back if its a good company. here is the address. Its a Christian company so it should be a good company. http://www.disciplescross.com/

[Klaas]

Originally Posted by pbirming

Its a Christian company so it should be a good company.

Heavens!
Exactly this ridiculous assumption makes that so many believers get scammed.
By fellow Christians & Muslems & whatever, too!
Trust the Lord if you want to, but carry a big stick. (Old Coaster 7:24)

But this one appears to be real.
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=5579

[Klaas]

Oops. I was just editing when you posted. Good luck.

[homecash]

Originally Posted by pbirming

I found this home business on a search i was doing and wondered if anyone had heard of them bad or good. I feel good about them but want to be on the safe side.If I hear nothing bad Im going to give it a try and I will post back if its a good company. here is the address. Its a Christian company so it should be a good company. http://www.disciplescross.com/

Hello,
Yes Disciple Cross is for real.

PLEASE Don't confuse this with other home based opportunities that make it impossible to earn. If you would like more informaiton, please email me at tez41a@yahoo.com
Blessings!

[Ravensmedicine]

Originally Posted by Klaas

Heavens!
Exactly this ridiculous assumption makes that so many believers get scammed.
By fellow Christians & Muslems & whatever, too!
Trust the Lord if you want to, but carry a big stick. (Old Coaster 7:24)

But this one appears to be real.
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=5579

Trust the Lord but be prepared to preach Matthew 23.
Not all who say they are of God are of God. And in John 10 Jesus told the religious leaders "Ye are of your father the DEVIL." (Raven 11:11)

Nonetheless. D.C.s appears to be real but it definitely takes work, more like an assembly line factory job with probably comparable pay when all is said and done. So you probably can't get super rich on it, and it takes quite a bit of investment to get started, but you can probably make $200 - $500 a week if you put in the hours AND make quality crosses that pass their inspection. That is often the catch with many home assembly businesses - it's hard to get them past the inspectors, but I hear D.C.s better in that area too....

[sel9648]

I just bought 100 Disciples Crosses from a seller on eBay for a fund raiser at our church. I paid $2.00 each including shipping. That should tell you something about what the market is like.

[Sadie514]

:) Disciple's Cross is 100% legit. My daughter and i are now in our 16th month making these crosses for the company. We also recruit and make money for DC. We have always been paid and we love what we do. We will continue to make these crosses as this is a wonderful company, great staff, and a blessing to us! Hope this helps. If you have any questions about DC just pm me. God Bless+ :)

[Gizmo]

Here are some reports concerning Diciples Cross.
Each one is from a seperate person:


Since this company is a Christian company, and since Pastor John Raymond is well known from his appearance on Survivor Thailand, I had expected the best customer service, prompt payment, and resolution to any problems that might arise. I am both an affiliate and a producer. As an affiliate, I have not received all payments due. I have repeatedly asked for help. Dan has promised help...but never delivered. I am still missing about $70 in affiliate payments. The payments I've received have often been late. As a producer, I have had problems with my orders. None of my e-mails to customer service were ever answered. The problems with my orders were never resolved. I have also tried to reach them by the phone number they give out. The times that I've been able to leave a message, my calls weren't returned...but usually the message box is full and I can't even leave a message. I am completely disappointed with this company. I have given them ample time to redeem themselves. I give up. I'm sure that not everyone has such a negative experience here...but my experience here has been very negative.

I have gotten much better customer service and earned more money online with non-Christian companies. It shouldn't be that way. I still have lots of advertising out for this company. I've spent a small fortune on advertising. I'm sure I'll receive more sign-ups. I doubt I'll ever be paid for them. I'm way in the red here.



Another experience:
I was stupid not to look up Disciple's Cross on the internet before purchasing the starter kit along with supplies. I believed that since this business was being endorsed by a Christian Pastor that it would actually be honest.

Here are the things wrong with it:
1. It is impossible to make good quality crosses in 5 minutes as said on their website. Takes more like 30 minutes for a good cross. The cross he makes on the video in 5 minutes would NOT pass his own quality test.

2. They have over a 60+ point checklist and most of your crosses will be rejected and sent back to you. (You lose money on shipping to and from them, you lose on paying for the supplies)

3. You buy supplies for 100 crosses, there is no way to make 100 crosses. You will bend at least 10% of the nails incorrectly and scratch the wires. So you spend $100 on supplies and make about 80 crosses and mail it to them. They reject 75 crosses. Send you back 75 crosses and deduct the shipping costs off the 5 crosses they decide to accept.

Stay away from this scam!!! They will not return your money when you return the starter kit and supplies. Make sure to mail back what you ordered and dispute them on your credit card. They are counting on people just to keep the start kits and supplies and give up on their money.

I'm ashamed to call myself a Christian after experiencing Pastor John Raymond's Scam for a work at home business.


Another:
John Raymond, Disciples Cross is making money off people who don't have any money to begin with.

They charge for the starter kit which is about $70 for 10 crosses with the promise of getting your initial cost refunded after sending them 400 crosses. To make 400 crosses it costs $400.00.

The problems are:
First, they reject every cross you make for some reason or another. This is because they are making money off people who buy the kits, which they never refund.

Second, They have a MINIMUM 10 WEEK turn around for inspection of any crosses you send to them. Which come back to you unbought. DO NOT BELIEVE IT WHEN THEY SAY THEY WILL BUY THEM.

Thirdly, Their shipping rates are about DOUBLE what the usps and ups charge.

Best Method 7.78 which will take you a month or more to get your order filled and shipped. 17.59 for 2nd day air 37.99 for next day air

Even if you decide to pay the outrageously exorborant prices for shipping, you will still have to wait a month or more to get your items because they won't ship them out before that. Sure! You might get next day delivery for 37.99 but that's next day deliver AFTER THEY DECIDE TO SEND it from there.

Preacher Raymond is using a nonprofit organization to make money scamming people!

Oh! I kept the autographed photo I got in the starter kit.....We're using it for "Pin the Cross on the Jack Ass"

Don't be taken by this so called Christian. Him and his group are anything but CHRISTIANS. They are SCAM artists and using a church to not pay taxes.


There are countless others who have been scammed by Disciples Cross, including myself!

[TheNaturalWay]

Hi Gizmo (and everyone else),

I just happen to stumble onto this forum. Everything Gizmo said is totally correct. I've been a Producer with DC since March 2004. I never joined them to use the buy-back program, which at this time is behind in payments by almost 1 year! Pastor John/DC didn't think this thru well enough before starting this business venture. DC/PJ didn't have enough capital to do this venture correctly, IMO. I'm a Moderaotr of a well known (and hated by PJ...LOL) Yahoo Group that has 677 members/Producers/Possible Producers. We discuss the truth about DC, the business. We also have Producers that sell kits (Authorized by PJ himself!) for approx 1/2 the cost of what DC sells them for. Complaints have been filed with the Attorney General by a few Producers already (that were in the buy back program). I really don't have time to go over all the details here...it's all in the Archive and 'Files' area of the Yahoo Group if you care to browse thru it.
When I saw things going wrong (before they actually did), I warned the Producers that were in the buy back program, and they fired back at me. Hey, I can take it...and when what I said 'did' happen...well, now they know I (and others) was correct in what I said.
I still make the necklaces (and sell on my own), and added refrigerator magnets and key chains as well.

Someone said that Hurricane Katrina caused delays. Well, Katrina 'never' hit the business at all. Katrina did, from my understanding, level the Church....but didn't touch the DC business at all.

DC is sitting on necklaces because they don't have orders for them, therefore no one is getting their payments...until they get orders. DC is just making things worse by advertising and bringing in more Producers when they can't sell what they have on hand now!

DJ (North Central Texas)
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/DCPRODUCERS

Originally Posted by Gizmo

Here are some reports concerning Diciples Cross.
Each one is from a seperate person:

[tina]

Hi all,

I have been a producer for DC for over 2 1/2 years now and have always received my payments for my work. I have every payment stubs from all the buy backs DC has purchased from me and i am still producing crosses and sending them back for payment. I just received my payment today for crosses i sold back to DC last week.

They always email me a confirmation saying my payment is going out and i have never been scammed by DC. I will continue to produce crosses and use their buy back program. I don't know why some producers say they aern't being paid for their work. Are you doing the crosses correctly? PJ can't buy back junky, defected crosses.

PJ is NOT a scam. I also have friends at my church that do the crosses and they are also always paid for their work. I will be more than happy to prove this to any attorney general or authorities that try to file any charges against DC as i have every payment record as i stated. I believe maybe alot of people aern't getting paid because they are not doing quality work and expect to be paid for it. The crosses are a challenge and you really need to have some special crafting skills, and definetly patience & time, and enjoy making them.

It took me a couple days watching the training video to really master the correct way to make the crosses. When i sent in my first batch obly one was not right all the others i was immediately paid for. The crosses take a special touch and some have the talent to do them right and some i'm afraid just don't.

I do not buy any bogus scam accusations against PJ as i have talked to this man, his staff and they have always been there for me in answering any questions i have had. Maybe i'm the exception, who knows, but so are about 15 of my friends that seem to also be getting paid for their crosses.

I don't know. Just thought i'd share my experience with you all bout DC. I will continue my work with them and they are a good company for me. If maybe your not doing your crosses correctly you may want to blame yourself as why you may not be getting paid. God Bless :)

[Shan1]

Hello!

I have been investigating this oportunity, too, and found a lady who goest to my church who makes and sells them to area stores, including our church bookstore.

She told me that at first, shw was wary of the whole "makin' jewelry at home" thing because of the old familiar scam...jewlry companies that send you their supplies to make things you couldn't be good enough at making for a million years to make money.

BUT...they provide you with videos to train you, and it is a simple enough product that after making a few, you are an old hand at it.

I am interested foremost for gift giving purposes, but an enterprising person with a solid ebay rep or a large enough local selling area could do this big!

Tha lady I spoke to (a deacon's wife, so I HIGHLY doubt she's fibbing) has been doing it for 2 years and makes an average of about $700/month.

[tina]

Hi, :)

I have been making crosses for over 2 years now with Disciple's cross and i love making the crosses and i love the company. I have always received my payment on time as i sell them back to the company. Everyone at Disciple's cross are wonderful people. It is a legitimate work from home assembly/craft opportunity for those willing to learn and would enjoy doing this type of work while glorifying Christ, I will continue to make the crosses as i always have. Hope this helps. Tina :)

[BeatrizO]

Hi,
I notice this is from last year, wish I could of find it earlier. I still have my starter kit, because I'm one of those that need more time and practice I know I could do it, but the video explanation is not working for me. Could Sadie514 or Tina or anyone that had a good experience with this, referre me with someone, church or person in San Diego to help me out. Just need assistance in completing 2 or 3 crosses and I can handle it from there. I do want to continue with this to recover my invesment and earn some extra income that I really need. Please help me! I don't want to lose the faith. Thank you. Beatriz
orendain@hotmail.com

[Zaneypop]

For over two years I have always been paid in a timely manner from them.

[BeatrizO]

Can you help me Zaneypop? or do you know anybody in San Diego that could help me out in at least putting together 2 - 3 crosses.
Thank you

[dreamerofwords]

There is a new supplier, in fact they are the only supplier, of pre-bent nails. They are at www.AngelCross.org and their nails only cost 3 cents more than the straight ones you have to bend yourself. Highly recommended cuz it cuts your production time and ends the frustration of throwing away bad nails.

[Ultpkgdeal]

Wow, bending those nails can't be easy!

The pre bent nails seem like the way to go. I might even give this adventure a try!

[lisan23]

He won't buy the crosses back if you use the pre-bent nails. And bending the nails isn't that hard - I bought the starter package and even with carpal tunnel in both hands I can bend them. Granted I can only do a few at a time before I need a break - it's not that hard to bend them. They are really thin nails.

[pcwork]

The amount paid for buyback is not much, many prefer to sell the crosses locally.

[RetiredInTheRockies]

I noticed the last post about the Disciples Cross home business plan was Sept. 2006. Is there anyone working this business currently?

I’m retired and looking for a way to supplement my social security benefits, and do not have money to waste on a program that doesn’t work.

Do they actually pay as indicated on their website? Is this business the ‘real deal’? I am thinking about ordering the starter kit to give it a try.

I look forward to hearing any comments about this business.

:confused:

[lisan23]

You'll have better luck and higher profits if you sell them locally, but he will buy them back as long as they are done correctly. (You will probably have to do a few before you get one right, but after that it should be easy sailing.) He only pays $1.25 per completed cross, but he does reimburse you $1 per necklace for material costs on top of the $1.25. (And it costs a $1 for the materials.) He also reimburses $5 for shipping if the crosses you sent are purchased back.

[cmac0351]

Why won't he buy them back if you get the pre-bent nails? How will he know the difference?

Also, posts in this thread from way back said that DC was behind on payments. Are they still?

[lisan23]

NO cmac - they were moving buildings last year or the year before or something and got behind then - but they are caught up now.

[cmac0351]

Good deal, thanks. But what about those pre-bent nails? Are they a different color or something? How would he know?

[dreamerofwords]

There is a website that now sells pre-bent nails, the exact same type as sold on the Disciple's Cross website. The good news is that it only costs .3 cents more than the straight nails, ends the frustration of throwing out bad nails and the aggravation of it all (not to mention how much it speeds up the entire cross-making experience!)

Anyway, it's located at www.AngelCross.org so I highly suggest you check it out.

[visions5251]

Originally Posted by dreamerofwords

There is a new supplier, in fact they are the only supplier, of pre-bent nails. They are at www.AngelCross.org and their nails only cost 3 cents more than the straight ones you have to bend yourself. Highly recommended cuz it cuts your production time and ends the frustration of throwing away bad nails.

I thought disciples crosses clearly states that you MUST use only their supplies, am I wrong?

Please advise.

[visions5251]

An update for anyone interested in this. I called the customer service number and spoke with a "Wanda", who told me the following: (just saying what I was told)

1-That yes, they were behind last year , with paying out buybacks, and that they were actually behind BEFORE Katrina, and it got worse after Katrina.

2-That currently, they mail you a check out 3 weeks after the product is received in their office. (s o not sure about what the above poster said about getting a check this week, for work sent in last week)

3-That rejection rate is generally 25% of what you sent, if you are new and not very experienced at it.

4-That if you order supplies online, and pay with a credit card, the supplies are shipped out the same day.

5-That when you get the video, you will notice a couple of other tools that PJ uses to make the crosses, that you MAY have to buy, unless you have them around the house.

6-Their email address is customerservice@disciplecross.com (NOT crosses)

7-That there is no truth to the fact that if they have a large supply on hand that they can't sell, you will have to wait longer to get paid.

Anyone know anything different than the above? Please PM me, as I don;t visit here every day.

[msevans]

Originally Posted by tina

I don't know. Just thought i'd share my experience with you all bout DC. I will continue my work with them and they are a good company for me. If maybe your not doing your crosses correctly you may want to blame yourself as why you may not be getting paid. God Bless :)

HI there! My wife has decided to stay at home again and this is would be a great opportunity for her.
Could I have your email address please.

I am actually looking for people who are willing to give out their phone number so that I can personally talk with them.

I am a pastor who has a weekly teaching program on two radio stations and I was thinking about advertising this program on my website or maybe just the crosses at my store.

However, I don't want to endorse an organization that can't seem to answer my questions over the phone.

I need/want to talk with those who are getting paid and can answer a few questions for me personally over the phone.

Thanks,

Pastor Mark

[heatherw1977]

The last thread is from 2007. Does anyone still assemble disciples crosses and if so can you really make any money from this work at home or is it a scam?

[katiescorner]

They are still around and people are still making money with them. One thing that hasn't changed is that those who are making money are the ones assembling the crosses and selling them on their own to Christian bookstores, at flea markets, etc.

[cuddlymom]

I've been a producer for a number of years...although I have never even tried to send them in for the buy-back program. I've never had a problem selling them on my own, but I usually sell them for just $5. I've even had my eleven year old come home from school with orders from his friends. They make great gifts for kids to give to friends.
I've also bought the pre-bent nails....much easier and faster, and they are more uniform than I make, and they also have a smaller nail size available, with smaller gauge wire.
Good Luck!
Cathy
Clovis, CA

[dreamerofwords]

Originally Posted by cuddlymom

I've been a producer for a number of years...although I have never even tried to send them in for the buy-back program. I've never had a problem selling them on my own, but I usually sell them for just $5. I've even had my eleven year old come home from school with orders from his friends. They make great gifts for kids to give to friends.
I've also bought the pre-bent nails....much easier and faster, and they are more uniform than I make, and they also have a smaller nail size available, with smaller gauge wire.
Good Luck!
Cathy
Clovis, CA
cuddlymom@comcast.net

Where do you get prebent nails??

[ciber8mx]

Originally Posted by cuddlymom

I've been a producer for a number of years...although I have never even tried to send them in for the buy-back program. I've never had a problem selling them on my own, but I usually sell them for just $5. I've even had my eleven year old come home from school with orders from his friends. They make great gifts for kids to give to friends.
I've also bought the pre-bent nails....much easier and faster, and they are more uniform than I make, and they also have a smaller nail size available, with smaller gauge wire.
Good Luck!
Cathy
Clovis, CA
cuddlymom@comcast.net

Hi Cathy,

Thanks very much for the info.

I have also heard lot of positive feedback about disciples cross, and have thought about trying it myself. Like you I prefer to make them and sell them myself. I have the same question dreamerofwords asked: Where do you get those pre-bent nails? Another question is where do you usually sell the cross necklace?

Thanks again!

[Beckey]

This program may seem like a scam to some of you but I have found that it could be a worthwhile investment for a part-time/second job for myself.
Last year I was in a really bad car accident that shattered my leg and I was unable to work for serval months.The doctors were amazed that I made it thur the accident with just a shattered leg!
My stepmother found this program on the net.She knows that crafts are activities that I really enjoy doing.
Yes, bending the nails are horrendous and extemely hard to accomplish to make them just right/perfect like the pastor does in the video. My secret is purchasing pre bent nails off the net. This way your crosses look perfect!
On the pre bent nail site they have the crosses in different "formats"(key chains zipper pulls and ect...).You can also use one of my friends suggestions and place the cross onto a ribbon to make it a bible bookmark!
Also, get expirmental with the wires on the crosses you can make them look like really interesting. Look to the bible for inspiration on this point!I did!
Now comes the trick of making the money off these and that is to sell them at local church craft fairs or craft fairs that occur in your area! Here is something that I have learned that the crosses don't really sell at farmers market and flea markets(been there done that won't go there)!
I can make anywhere from $250 to $400 just setting up at craft fair and selling these creation on my own. I sell each of my crosses for a $10 each!
This not no scam in my opinion! If you know how to make them with your own "twist" and your own "style", as well as where to sell them at and how to market your product!
Just branch out on your own and god will help you!

[jennau44]

Becky,
I have just signed up to get a starter kit from disciples cross.
Can you tell me where you purchase your pre-bent nails?
Also, would you mind sharing how much you make in a month from this disciples cross business? I am very curious about potential earnings?
And, how long does it take you to make a cross?

[katiescorner]

If you read back through the thread, I believe someone posted the link on where to get the prebent nails..

[HazeofChai]

Is anyone still doing this business? I recently came across DisciplesCross.com and I am very interested; however, I have a lot of questions for someone who is actively doing this business before I decide to jump in... If anyone could answer a few questions for me I would really appreciate it!

[sweetsugar]

I to am concerned about the crosses I cant believe I just found this website thank you I am disbled and broke and have been trying for months to do this , I have the book with all the companies home assembly it cost me 50.00 to find out some of them are scams it scares me to put what little money I have into something and turn out to hurt me, thanks everyone

[Tulip]

Hello

I have researched wah craft companies and posted on a crafting forum for the past year and a half.

It is my understanding Disciples Cross is not buying crosses these days. It seems people are making them and selling them themselves. While this probably would not bring a steady income some say it has worked out for them. Others say they had no luck selling them.

It is my understanding paying for a listing of work at home craft companies is not the best idea. You can research and visit message boards to find information on work at home craft companies. I do believe a lot of them are not reliable. You can waste your money.
I have found only a hand full where people have posted and said they have gotten paid.
WAHM.com has a crafting forum with a few craft companies where people are posting and getting paid for their work.
Hope this info helps.

[katiescorner]

I don't know what your disability is but the hardest thing with the crosses from my understanding is bending the nails.

Like the last poster, everyone I know who is doing well with them, sells them on their own. So if you don't have an avenue to sell them.. don't spend your money.

Originally Posted by sweetsugar

I to am concerned about the crosses I cant believe I just found this website thank you I am disbled and broke and have been trying for months to do this , I have the book with all the companies home assembly it cost me 50.00 to find out some of them are scams it scares me to put what little money I have into something and turn out to hurt me, thanks everyone

[HazeofChai]

So the program's "Guaranteed BuyBack" isn't really guaranteed?? I have a daytime job but with the economy like it is my hours have gotten cut several times and while I don't have time to look for a place to sell them with the Guaranteed BuyBack it still seemed like a feasible option... But if this isn't really guaranteed then perhaps I should rethink my options.

[Terry D]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and want to get this posted ASAP so others might not make the same mistake I did.

This is a first-hand report of the Disciple's Cross program. I paid the money for the starter kit, watched the training DVD over and over before attempting my first cross, and basically approached this with great care and deliberation, wanting to give it a fair shot. As it turns out, I made some assumptions that just weren't true. They were mistakes, which I have itemized below.

MISTAKE #1. I had read here and on other forums conflicting posts about whether or not Disciple's Cross is a scam, but there seemed to be enough reports saying it's legit for me to feel reasonably sure that if I was careful, followed their directions EXACTLY, and took my time, my crosses would pass inspection.

MISTAKE #2. Like others, I had been falsely confident that since the company's owner is an active pastor, this was probably legitimate. What a dangerous assumption that was!

MISTAKE #3. I took their claims at face value where they state that the "guaranteed" buy-back program would actually let me work at home and sell them back to Disciple's Cross. It doesn't work that way.

MISTAKE #4. I have good hand strength, am very good with tools, and I do careful and precise work. I had no doubts that my crosses would pass inspection with flying colors. I had assumed that they would be judged fairly, and that there was no unfair "reject all crosses submitted" policy in place. This turned out to be my biggest mistake.

Disciple's Cross is in the business of selling starter kits and supplies kits. PERIOD. They aren't in the business of accepting or reselling crosses. They make their money from work-at-home people like us.

How do they do it?

They charge $69.95 + shipping for a starter kit which is required.

They charge $25/each for supply kits that have materials for 25 crosses.

Any crosses you submit and they reject are sent back to you, and assuming any pass inspection, the return postage for the rejected crosses comes out of your check. But I doubt any are ever accepted.

They plant shills on forums like WAHM.COM espousing the fairness and success they are experiencing. One poster claimed he was making $1500/month using the buy-back program. If you do your homework as a work-at-home type, you'll see business opportunities where you are paid for writing positive reports on this product or that service on forums. Basically as a shill. That is precisely what Disciple's Cross is doing. They're paying people to lie.

My story:

I paid $80.77 ($69.95 + shipping) for my starter kit. Their website claims it's a $250 value. What I got was about $5 worth of horseshoe nails, cut colored wire lengths and cut waxed cotton cord, along with tags, monofilament for the tags, a color chart, a producer's certificate, a training DVD, and ...of course ...an autographed photo of John Raymond, a one-time participant on a reality show. Apparently he has quite an ego and sees himself as a TV star now.

Their starter kit has instructions on how to submit your crosses for inspection, which I followed to the letter. I also watched the training DVD over and over, especially the close-up portion. I did my crosses EXACTLY as the training DVD showed, and I believe they turned out flawlessly. They were better than the sample in the training DVD which Pastor John stated was "perfect".

I submitted my crosses for evaluation. Two weeks later I received all of them back with a checklist of what was "wrong" with them. This included not properly shaped loops on the top, wrong # of wire turns, top neck that was too long, etc. But ...my crosses looked like the sample in the DVD. How can this be? I had the same number of wire turns as his example and my loops were exactly the same.

Well ...I called DC and was told that the number of wire turns between the arms and the neck must match. I replied "But mine had the same number of turns as the training video". I was told to buy more supplies and try again.

It was now clear to me how they work. They can reject your crosses for any reason they want. The checklist was three pages long and didn't identify WHICH cross failed which inspection step - it was just a list of all the flaws of all the crosses. Vague, to say the least. And it directly conflicted with the training DVD's instructions on how to make these things. It turns out that it doesn't matter, because they never had any intention of buying back any crosses. This is partially supported by the fact that if you look at their testimonials page on their website, all the glowing accolades are from people who sell these on their own, which I suspect weren't real people. There are no positive testimonials from producers in the buy-back program.

They even have a bogus "100% club" link with a Word document that shows supposed "100% submissions of various sizes from producers (including test units) which they only list as "Joe B." or "Nancy L." Sure ...they're real people (pfffttt!).

This is how they operate.

Before I had gone through this futile attempt, I had done a little digging into the marketability of these crosses. I checked with Christian distributors, the trade group CBA which represents nationwide distributors, and I even contacted a local bookstore. It turns out there is little market for these crosses, and ...none of them had ever heard of Disciple's Cross or John Raymond, who claims to be selling thousands of these every week and is always in need of work-at-home producers to "help him keep his inventory supplied". HAH! There is little or no demand for these crosses out there.

So I decided to test out my theory. I took a few of my best crosses and attempted to sell them on Ebay for only a few dollars each (not the $10/each John claims I can sell them for). My past experience has been that if you can't sell something on Ebay, you can't sell it anywhere.

I included photos of the actual cross they would be buying. They were good crosses, made exactly like the training sample.

The result: I sold ONE cross, and for a price that was so low ($3), I barely made back the cost of the materials. I ended up losing money overall because of the listing fees for the ones that didn't sell.

I can just picture Pastor John, sitting in his office, counting his money, gazing lovingly at his own autographed photo, and laughing at all of us who have sent in our money to him for this shady program. He discovered his own very lucrative "work-at-home" business. Unfortunately we all suffer for his success.

Bottom line: You cannot sell back crosses to Disciple's Cross. You are on your own if you want to sell any. For those of us who don't care for the selling side, we're out of luck.

Save yourself the eighty bucks+ and try something else. Don't make the costly mistake I did (with tools, acrylic and shipping, my total losses were about $130 on this).This one won't do it for you.

[Tulip]

Originally Posted by Terry D

Hi, I'm new to the forum and want to get this posted ASAP so others might not make the same mistake I did.

This is a first-hand report of the Disciple's Cross program. I paid the money for the starter kit, watched the training DVD over and over before attempting my first cross, and basically approached this with great care and deliberation, wanting to give it a fair shot. As it turns out, I made some assumptions that just weren't true. They were mistakes, which I have itemized below.

MISTAKE #1. I had read here and on other forums conflicting posts about whether or not Disciple's Cross is a scam, but there seemed to be enough reports saying it's legit for me to feel reasonably sure that if I was careful, followed their directions EXACTLY, and took my time, my crosses would pass inspection.

MISTAKE #2. Like others, I had been falsely confident that since the company's owner is an active pastor, this was probably legitimate. What a dangerous assumption that was!

MISTAKE #3. I took their claims at face value where they state that the "guaranteed" buy-back program would actually let me work at home and sell them back to Disciple's Cross. It doesn't work that way.

MISTAKE #4. I have good hand strength, am very good with tools, and I do careful and precise work. I had no doubts that my crosses would pass inspection with flying colors. I had assumed that they would be judged fairly, and that there was no unfair "reject all crosses submitted" policy in place. This turned out to be my biggest mistake.

Disciple's Cross is in the business of selling starter kits and supplies kits. PERIOD. They aren't in the business of accepting or reselling crosses. They make their money from work-at-home people like us.

How do they do it?

They charge $69.95 + shipping for a starter kit which is required.

They charge $25/each for supply kits that have materials for 25 crosses.

Any crosses you submit and they reject are sent back to you, and assuming any pass inspection, the return postage for the rejected crosses comes out of your check. But I doubt any are ever accepted.

They plant shills on forums like WAHM.COM espousing the fairness and success they are experiencing. One poster claimed he was making $1500/month using the buy-back program. If you do your homework as a work-at-home type, you'll see business opportunities where you are paid for writing positive reports on this product or that service on forums. Basically as a shill. That is precisely what Disciple's Cross is doing. They're paying people to lie.

My story:

I paid $80.77 ($69.95 + shipping) for my starter kit. Their website claims it's a $250 value. What I got was about $5 worth of horseshoe nails, cut colored wire lengths and cut waxed cotton cord, along with tags, monofilament for the tags, a color chart, a producer's certificate, a training DVD, and ...of course ...an autographed photo of John Raymond, a one-time participant on a reality show. Apparently he has quite an ego and sees himself as a TV star now.

Their starter kit has instructions on how to submit your crosses for inspection, which I followed to the letter. I also watched the training DVD over and over, especially the close-up portion. I did my crosses EXACTLY as the training DVD showed, and I believe they turned out flawlessly. They were better than the sample in the training DVD which Pastor John stated was "perfect".

I submitted my crosses for evaluation. Two weeks later I received all of them back with a checklist of what was "wrong" with them. This included not properly shaped loops on the top, wrong # of wire turns, top neck that was too long, etc. But ...my crosses looked like the sample in the DVD. How can this be? I had the same number of wire turns as his example and my loops were exactly the same.

Well ...I called DC and was told that the number of wire turns between the arms and the neck must match. I replied "But mine had the same number of turns as the training video". I was told to buy more supplies and try again.

It was now clear to me how they work. They can reject your crosses for any reason they want. The checklist was three pages long and didn't identify WHICH cross failed which inspection step - it was just a list of all the flaws of all the crosses. Vague, to say the least. And it directly conflicted with the training DVD's instructions on how to make these things. It turns out that it doesn't matter, because they never had any intention of buying back any crosses. This is partially supported by the fact that if you look at their testimonials page on their website, all the glowing accolades are from people who sell these on their own, which I suspect weren't real people. There are no positive testimonials from producers in the buy-back program.

They even have a bogus "100% club" link with a Word document that shows supposed "100% submissions of various sizes from producers (including test units) which they only list as "Joe B." or "Nancy L." Sure ...they're real people (pfffttt!).

This is how they operate.

Before I had gone through this futile attempt, I had done a little digging into the marketability of these crosses. I checked with Christian distributors, the trade group CBA which represents nationwide distributors, and I even contacted a local bookstore. It turns out there is little market for these crosses, and ...none of them had ever heard of Disciple's Cross or John Raymond, who claims to be selling thousands of these every week and is always in need of work-at-home producers to "help him keep his inventory supplied". HAH! There is little or no demand for these crosses out there.

So I decided to test out my theory. I took a few of my best crosses and attempted to sell them on Ebay for only a few dollars each (not the $10/each John claims I can sell them for). My past experience has been that if you can't sell something on Ebay, you can't sell it anywhere.

I included photos of the actual cross they would be buying. They were good crosses, made exactly like the training sample.

The result: I sold ONE cross, and for a price that was so low ($3), I barely made back the cost of the materials. I ended up losing money overall because of the listing fees for the ones that didn't sell.

I can just picture Pastor John, sitting in his office, counting his money, gazing lovingly at his own autographed photo, and laughing at all of us who have sent in our money to him for this shady program. He discovered his own very lucrative "work-at-home" business. Unfortunately we all suffer for his success.

Bottom line: You cannot sell back crosses to Disciple's Cross. You are on your own if you want to sell any. For those of us who don't care for the selling side, we're out of luck.

Save yourself the eighty bucks+ and try something else. Don't make the costly mistake I did (with tools, acrylic and shipping, my total losses were about $130 on this).This one won't do it for you.

Hi

I tried two different crafting work at home companies. New England Crafters and EZmark Bookmarks. During the time of trying to decide to purchase a kit and trying to decide whether these companies were scams I was posting on a message board in a crafting forum.

After purchasing kits from both of these companies and talking with so many who did the same I would call all of the work at home crafting companies a scam because of the fact they sell kits to you and leave you thinking you will make money making their crafts and selling the craft either back to the company or on your own. They make money off of you and the chances of you making money are slim to zero.

I did make some money with making the bookmark and selling it back to the company. But myself and one other gal were the only two who made any money doing this over a years time. Many tried and failed. A lot of time and effort went into making the bookmark and getting paid. After a year of making this bookmark I decided way to much time for to little money.

I posted my entire experience with New England Crafters on this forum Scam.com. The company NEC was all around bad news.

I also felt posting and reading the crafting forum on the particular message board I was posting on was very misleading. I am under the impression these companies make most of their money selling the kits and if they do pay for any crafts being made those crafts are put back in the kits or they sell the crafts as samples. I do not see enough of these crafts being sold at retail to keep a business going. They are novelty items that would not be in demand.

My advice is do not spend more than you can afford to loose with one of these crafting companies. Also realize many do not get their craft accepted and loose their time and money.

Beware of these work at home crafting companies. Much hype about them. To me just a big ole con.

I also see the BBB reports covering a couple of these companies as being deceiving. I do not understand this and could not get the BBB to give me an explanation. The BBB report had ceased to even describe the companies as work at home companies. Were giving them high ranking. Just BS in my opinion.

It seems there are a few who post on message boards and have good things to say about a few of these companies. Just beware this can be very misleading. I am under the impression these people post on message boards so that the company will keep selling kits and so that they the few will have a job. And that job is not what it seems.

Just my opinion.

[Terry D]

Originally Posted by Tulip

I would call all of the work at home crafting companies a scam because of the fact they sell kits

I don't see as how they would have any choice. We can't expect the legitimate ones to send out free supplies to anyone who wanted to give it a try. They'd go broke in a month.

They have to have some security that the person wanting to start up is serious about it and not just wanting to get the starter supplies for free. NEC will refund your starter kit cost after 200 units are sent back to them.

The problem in not knowing which ones are scams and which are legit is that very fact - they all require a start-up fee, understandably. But ...with places like Disciple's Cross, the unwary newbie has no idea that DC has no intentions of EVER buying back anything, and requires that its producers buy supplies only from them. That's another key difference between DC and NEC - NEC sends supplies for free in a ramp-up production program.

My personal opinion, for what it's worth - New England Crafters is completely legit, Disciple's Cross is not. I will know more in a few weeks since I ordered my first starter kit from NEC recently. I'll report back here if I find that they are in the business of selling starter kits, or if they actually do run above board.

And, no, I am not a shill for anyone. Just someone who is searching for an honest company who will pay me for my work.

[Tulip]

Originally Posted by Terry D

I don't see as how they would have any choice. We can't expect the legitimate ones to send out free supplies to anyone who wanted to give it a try. They'd go broke in a month.

They have to have some security that the person wanting to start up is serious about it and not just wanting to get the starter supplies for free. NEC will refund your starter kit cost after 200 units are sent back to them.

The problem in not knowing which ones are scams and which are legit is that very fact - they all require a start-up fee, understandably. But ...with places like Disciple's Cross, the unwary newbie has no idea that DC has no intentions of EVER buying back anything, and requires that its producers buy supplies only from them. That's another key difference between DC and NEC - NEC sends supplies for free in a ramp-up production program.

My personal opinion, for what it's worth - New England Crafters is completely legit, Disciple's Cross is not. I will know more in a few weeks since I ordered my first starter kit from NEC recently. I'll report back here if I find that they are in the business of selling starter kits, or if they actually do run above board.

And, no, I am not a shill for anyone. Just someone who is searching for an honest company who will pay me for my work.

I see all the work at home crafting companies being a scam and doing the same thing except for the fact some pay a few for making the craft and selling it back to them. Which therefore makes them legit (I guess). After reading what Angel Pin Creations has to say it left me wondering what rules and regulations these companies have to follow?

New England Crafters has very expensive kits and are selling them for fifty dollars. Most need to practice to even get close to getting approved. The crafter is buying additional materials because what NEC sends to you is not enough. Very few supplies. They only send you a very small amount of materials.

Their instructions have measurements and other things left out. Do you know why they do this? So you have to keep mailing back and forth to get approved.
I think it is all set up by the owners of these work at home craft companies to make you mail back and forth, get you frustrated and you quit before you ever get your kit money back. This would be after being approved and making two hundred and fifty of a craft. Which could take months and maybe even years. They can run you around forever. This could be listed under scamming. Intentionally setting a company up to run you around, to take your money the crafter never makes any money.

Yes, New England Crafters has some folks working and selling their crafts back to the company. But I think when you look at the entire way this company works they are scamming most. You are not going to make the max of a craft and make any kind of money for the time you put into the work. I know there are a few that have found a way to work full time days seven days a week and bring in three or four hundred dollars a month. This can take years to accomplish. There are time limits set for your crafts to be made and mailed back and things like with the mailing that can put the breaks on making a reasonable amount of money and making it all worth it.

I am sorry but after really taking a good look at these companies I see it as a racket. The owners are making descent money and the good majority of the rest of the people wanting to work at home, make some crafts and sell them back to the company are getting screwed.

And as for being a shill. At first a lot of us posting on a certain crafting forum thought there were people getting paid to shill for NEC. Totally made sense. The same people had posted for years pushing people to buy kits from NEC. Also NEC pays by giving free kits for testimonials so why not pay for message board participation. It is not an illegal act to do this. So being a shill would make sense. If you are selling your craft back to one of these companies and you have gotten that far you finally have figured out what is going on with these companies if you are posting on a message board. If you are someone who is selfish and sees all of this as ok then I can see that kind of person persuading people to buy kits in order to keep the company up and running. If you are participating on a message board and refuse to let people speak out and say what they think of a company and try to run them off of a message board I would call those people a shill for the company.

As far as Disciples Cross I already knew if you did your homework you would know they are not buying back crosses.
I have heard good and bad stories from people who have tried this company. So I would throw them into the mix of being a company that is scamming to make money.

I got caught up in wanting to try a crafting work at home company when I first started posting on a message board. I knew from reading and paying attention it would be difficult and without skills for crafting you would be taking a big risk and spending money and time.

I succeeded. I got approved and made some money. Not with NEC but with the bookmarks. I quit NEC. When I realized what they were doing I just said I would not want to make crafts for this company.

After getting away from crafting forums on messgeboards and really taking a look at what I was doing I realized the scam. Anyway to me it is all a scam. A pretty slick one at that.

Many women and men fall for this.
And like I have said, some can make this work out for them. But way to many cannot. They are women who get caught up in thinking this is a job and they can make a descent income.
Bad News. I feel this is all wrong. The way this is being done is shameful.

I call these work at home craft companies scams because they are set up to deceive. This is what a scam is. A way for a person to trick and deceive and make money.
Yes,Disciples Cross, NEC, Cottage, Tiny Details, Rets Inc. and probably some others do pay for some of the crafts to be sold back to them. But I see the way they go about working their business a scam. Deceitful.
I will never never change my mind about what I think of these companies.

[Tulip]

I also wanted to say. The only way I have found a way to form an opinion about these work at home crafting companies is by talking with many who post on message boards. We know not everyone that makes money by selling these crafts they have made post on message boards. So I am sure there are many we never hear from with opinions about these companies.

I did notice that some who post in crafting forums have tried many different crafting companies. It is like an addiction. Kind of like gambling. I know people have asked why don't more people speak out and say what they think of these companies. I think it is a combination of things.

Some feel they gambled and lost. They just go on to the next company.

Some feel it is their fault. They just can not craft good enough. And in some cases this could be correct.

Some are just so ticked they just want to get away from this and not talk about it anymore.

Many reasons for being hush hush and not speaking out when you feel you were cheated.

These kinds of companies could work if they were selling a craft or product that was in demand. But then why hire people from all over the place. I think you would center your business in your State and you of course would have a certain number of people and they would not quit because you were a good company to work for. The company would tell you how much of a product they were selling. They would keep there creative people informed about the company.

These work at home craft companies will sell you a kit at any time. How do they sell so many crafts? Does it really makes sense to know they just keep selling kit after kit. That approval list on NEC's website just keeps growing and growing. How many of those people never made any money? How many quit? It is all to draw you in and get you to buy a kit. (MY opinion)

If you want to justify this kind of work as being a good thing you will.

Good Luck to all. Do what you feel is best.

Guess part of it is what your expectations are and what you yourself feel is being cheated. Seems to be very controversial. Look at folks on this thread saying they like Disciples Cross. There are folks who say they love NEC.

Wish we could hear from all who have tried these companies. Would be interesting.

[katiescorner]

Great post and review Tulip! I have felt the same way about most craft companies with the exception of DC.

I have always said the only people who are making money with DC are the ones who are selling the crosses on their own. Those people seem to be very happy.

For the record if you are doing the crosses that way, you do not have to buy supplies from DC.. there are other places that are selling prebent nails. (the hardest part)

I have yet to have found people happy with crafting companies who say they buy the products back.

[Tulip]

Originally Posted by katiescorner

Great post and review Tulip! I have felt the same way about most craft companies with the exception of DC.

I have always said the only people who are making money with DC are the ones who are selling the crosses on their own. Those people seem to be very happy.

For the record if you are doing the crosses that way, you do not have to buy supplies from DC.. there are other places that are selling prebent nails. (the hardest part)

I have yet to have found people happy with crafting companies who say they buy the products back.

Thank you katiescorner.
I too have heard some good things from people selling the Disciples Cross Necklace on their own and at craft shows. You need a craft someone wants to buy. I have heard the cross necklace is quite attractive.

On some of the crafting forums you can find a lot of good info about selling your own crafts. I found on a lot of the crafting forums these folks do not even mention the work at home companies.

[dreamerofwords]

I have been supplying prebent nails for DC producers worldwide since 2007 and have quite a few returning customers as well as some who purchase large quantities of nails so they must be doing something good. Some have a website, some sell wherever their market takes them, and quite a few beginners who ask for help and direction.

I don't make much of a profit, if at all, and my hands are very strong now, but the satisfaction I get when helping someone to start up their own home business is beyond definition.

There is money to be had but finding the market that works well for you depends much on your location and circumstances. I wish everyone who tries the DC system all the luck in the world.

[Boomarang]

I tried DC a few years back. Paid $89 for the kit plus the video. I received the kit. played the video and it was blank.

I sent them several emails but never received an answer. I tried calling and got an answering machine asking me to leave my number and they would call me back.

Several years later I am still waiting. Because of this I would classify DC as a SCAM