ACN - scam?

[Al-Chron]

Anyone know if ACN is legitimate? I sell cell phones and these guys are driving me nuts. They come in at least twice a week and try to get me to meet with them and the person above them. I tell them I'm not into MLM and I know a few people who have lost their $$ with them but they just don't stop. I'm in sales so I understand the need to get someone to buy what your selling but high pressure isn't the way to go, and this is the highest pressure I've ever seen. They seem almost desperate which is a huge red flag for me. What has anyone else heard?

[GiantRobot]

ACN is kind of legit, yeah.

They deliver real services. It is just that there services are the same as they were when I first joined in 1996.

They have not *****ed... And the products/services are outdated big-time, because nowadays you have VOIP (Voice over IP) and you have other services much cheaper than what they offer.

I mean, they were HOT in 1996 before VOIP and they had that deal with the old LongDistance company: LCI (Anyone remember them?).

LCI was gobbled up though later by I think BT.

And all the LongDistance stuff is so over-with.

When I joined, I took out 4 c-notes ($400) to buy the "kit" (A video tape and a paper application).

That was it. I never did sell anything because I was jammin' in another biz at the time. I didn't even mind the $400 bucks I lost on the kit either.

Making matters more challenging, even though you pay the $400 bucks, if you don't sell in 6 months they kill your membership (or they used to).

Adios

GR

[Dreamorigin]

I am an ACN Rep myself. It is a very legit business but yes, their product is way out dated and who uses land line long distance anymore? Everyone that I find are using cell phones for all of their long distance calls. One thing about ACN that I don't care for myself was that I was offering people 4.9c a minute on all long distance calls but it never states anywhere on the paperwork that your IN STATE long distance is actually 7c a minute. A bit deceiving if you ask me. After I found this out I no longer will represent them because if your product is not good enough that you can share the details with your sales Reps OR your customers, then that is not right in my mind. That is $499.00 that I wasted. If anyone has any ideas about a company that offers similar products and true honesty and integrity please let me know. :)

[Al-Chron]

They came in again today and this time I had to get kind of mean. I told them I am not, never have been, and never will be interested in joining their pyramid (yeah I actually finally said that because they are really starting to piss me off) and I don't appreciate being harassed like this. I even told them if they come in again I'll call security on their ass. Do they really think that this kind of harassment is going to actually get people to join? Unbelievable!!

[GiantRobot]

Don't call it a Pyramid though.

MLM and Network Marketing is a legitimate means of marketing when ethically executed.

Not fair to call mlm's PYRAMID's when some of them really do good.

GR

[Al-Chron]

Don't call it a Pyramid though.

MLM and Network Marketing is a legitimate means of marketing when ethically executed.

Not fair to call mlm's PYRAMID's when some of them really do good.

GR

I just said that because the guy's a jackass and wouldn't leave me alone. And the structure of it is a pyramid. its just when you say pyramid, everyone assumes that means scam. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I haven't seen (maybe just not payed attention) MLM's do a whole lot of good. I'm sure there are some out there, but anyone who joins up with that kind of thing deserves whatever they get out of it. I'll stick to working hard for my money. All I ever hear from those idiots is "Be your own boss! You don't even have to work much at all!" Well, I am my own boss and call me crazy if I get a certain satisfaction from actually working for my money and not having to get others to lose theirs. Just my opinion.

[GiantRobot]

I'm in agreement with you and you are alright...

But... I bet you work hard for your money for a company that has a pyramid structure.

There is:

CEO (Earns the Most money from people below him)

President COO CTO CFO

Vice Presidents VP VP VP VP VP

Middle Management + ++ +++ ++ ++ ++ ++

Employees +++++ ++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++

Customers ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++




GR

[Al-Chron]

Oh of course. Like I said, I said pyramid because the guy was harassing me and he needed to know that there is no way I would ever join the damn thing. Of course all business are structured as a pyramid, I just don't really seen any other way to sctructure a successful profit making organization.

[April47]

I'm an ACN rep and I LOVE IT... i don't think their services are outdated... we offer member-to-member... who else offers that? (besides cell phones) and we are going to be in the cell phone markets soon too... we're already over in europe and we're the 3rd largest provider over there... what does that say??? the local and long distance rates were just lowered a few months ago.. so yes.. they do keep up to date with things!! and also we VoIP is a service we will have in the future... and the benefits plans are UNBELIEVABLE!!! I actually just recently quit my job so i can do this full time... and my boyfriend quit his engeneering job a year ago.. and is making more now than he was then.. this business has enabled him to buy the 213 acre farm he's always wanted!! if anybody has the opportunity to join this company... DO IT... i've seen so many of my friends and family do well with this opportunity.. and they don't have you sign up and just leave you there to fend for yourself... the people are there to HELP YOU... it's awesome... I just feel so blessed to be part of it... they don't make money unless YOU make money... and that's how it works...

if anyone is interested in hearing more... you can call this number 585-234-0502.. it's a pre-recorded call briefly describing the opportunity... or you can email me at spudticket@yahoo.com with the title "ACN OPPORUNITY"

[Residual]

Inresponse to the post, I was with acn for 4 yrs, the only true way to make money in acn is to constantly recruit and charge $499. to get 6customers then you made your bonus depending on where you stand in the compensation plan. Then you got to be lucky to find aggresive reps in your downline that do the same, 80% of the reps do not renew their partnership the following year, and thats because of the 499 and the attrition that comes with that fee. The average rep in network marketing acquires 3.81 customers per rep, in acn that means ZERO! DOLLARS for you when you take someones 499. and they don't get qualified, because their not as good as you, or you have to do it all for them. Why are so many rvps leaving that company, that because everytime they promote someone, they cut their money in half, same as ETTS, TC, RVPS,SVPS, So they are not perfectly honest or clear when they talk about making money with their company, they teach you to recruit, not to build true residual income. Its a smoking mirror, and I can say this, I made some money with them, and still get a small residual check, but its a job, not what you would want to truly retire in. I got involved with a company that its comp.plan is the best in the industry, its fair to the reps in the field, and you earn true infinity payout at the first earned position not the top position like in most companies, especially acn. Contact me if you'd like more info. We do not need to hound people, we are free, to partner up with so we have no problem with quotas or bonuses that have to be met at the end of the month, thats why does acn reps were desperate, they pressure them to recruit, or they don't care about you, lots of promises with them, but they never come thru. And as for the word pyramid, all businesses are structured that why, unfortunately illegal pyramids have tainted the Proffesional Industry of Network Marketing, get educated in the industry, then you can truly speak about its structure, its the fairest business model out there were and ordinary person can make great life changing income, with the right company.

[April47]

how long ago were you in ACN?? cause you don't know what you're talking about... i just got back from california... were they had their national training... and they have a new promotion in place to where if you get 1 rep and 20 customers... you get your $500 back... i think that's gonna want to make people get their customers... don't you?? OF COURSE you have to build a team... you're not going to make much money getting paid on the customers you alone acquire... that's why you build a team and get paid on their customers too... the only people that make nothing... DO nothing... and if you keep presenting the opportunity to people... eventually you WILL find someone who takes right off with it... and you don't have to pay $499 every year... with ANY business you have to pay fees to renew licenses... everyone knows that... the only reason ACN doesn't work for people is because THEY DON'T WORK... how do i know?? because my friend went from driving a daytona to a corvette... my boyfriend and i went from a two-bedroom apartment to a 3-story house with a 213 acre farm... you CAN NOT tell me that me working at wal-mart... and him working as an engeneer.. could of allowed us to do that! i don't think so... but you're right about one thing... many who do this WILL quit... but that's because they either don't believe in the company... they don't believe in themselves... or they didn't listen to what their upline was telling them to do... THAT'S IT... the cofounders at ACN developed a system that is pretty much fool proof if you follow it... and of course you're gonna get no's... people that don't want to do the business or be a customer... but do you think AT&T never got a no?? this business just makes sense... it's recession proof... and we have to pay these bills anyway... we might as well get paid for them...

[April47]

oh and by the way... they might cut your BONUSES a LITTLE when you reach RVP (it's not in half though...and it's only your bonus pay... your residual keeps growing).. but i'm sure those RVPs really don't care.. because back in 1995 the average RVP was recorded making about 33,000 PER MONTH.... so the reason they are leaving the company is because THEY CAN AFFORD TO!! they retired!!

and the reason you're so negative about it i think... as you said... "it's a job" you treated it as a job... so it paid job money... i treat mine like a business... so i get CEO money... thank you

[April47]

one last thing... you forgot to mention something important.... those positions you named... ETT,TC,RVP, and SVP... the ONLY way to get to those positions is to ACQUIRE a certain amount of CUSTOMERS... now technically you could get to both ETT & TC with only 3 reps... as long as those 3 had enough customers.. also you could have 5000 reps under you... but if you didn't have those customers you'd still be at the bottom... am i right?? so i don't know what happened to you... whether you just don't know what you don't know... or if you've had a really sucky upline... but i feel sorry for you... cause you have the wroooooooong idea...

I am with a company called Escape International. We actually market cell phones for FREE and get paid. We also market a new technology-VOIP and Video Phones-where you can see and hear anyone in the world in real time. We also get paid for that. There is No Investment! Check it out! Take 5 minutes and call the 24 hour pre-recorded opportunity call 248-593-3085 press 1. Also visit our site www.escapeinternational.com if you would like to join us for free click "become a rep for free" and use referal id # 207837
Thanks
Joe joeymacescape@yahoocom

I was a Team Coordinator in ACN. Does not compare to Escape International who already has VOIP and Video Phones-FREE Cell phones-No investment-a comp. plan that blows the doors off of ACN, Excel, NEXX, and 5linx. We as reps also recieve FREE key stock ownership with Escape International at the top 3 positions!! This is why top ACN and Excel reps are coming over. Our founders were founders and top reps in ACN!!!!

[Residual]

In response to the ACNERS that bought a 213 acre farm and a corvette, you don't need acn to do that!, My question to you is all I hear is I, we, I , we bought this that, yada yada yada, how many people (reps) have you helped make money, how many etts have you promoted, how many of them hit it in 30days, 60 days, don't humor me with what you bought, the fact remains is that when you recruit someone, they need to get 6 ld custs. or 8 of any kind so that you if your qualified can get your bonus, if they don't get those customers, you get zero dollars right? I don't know how long you've been in mlm, you need to learn your comp plan too. That statistic from 1995 thats that we are in 2004, those numbers are not residual their from tcab bonuses, be honest, the same people are always circling the stage, the ones that were there in the begining, yeah some superstars slip in, but they don't last long. I applaud you for your belief in ACN, but lets face it that is not going to pay the bills, you stop recruiting and see what happens every ett, you promote cuts you off your ett tcabs, you guys only get 1/4% from levels 1-5, we get 2% from levels 1-4, and another 1%to level 9 if you get 12 custs.in 60days. we get infinity pay coded to us at the first earned position at Escape you have to be a lucky enough to get to rvp, then they give you a tiny override, and its not true infinity, when they promote another rvp, they get a pay cut. We don't loose anything. I tell you the same as the other acner learn your comp plan, feel free to compare it to ours, plug your numbers into ours it will triple. Soon your reps in your downline that are not making money will ask you why acn charges 499, and there is another company thathas more and is absolutely free to get involved. You too can read this email from an acn rvp, I erased his name, but he is with rvp international ,and I am sure all the rvps are away of giving free positions to excelers, your leadership is back stabbing you as you try to build your business and charge people to get in, that is truly wrong!

Hello there,

My name is (rvps name removed) and I am one of the top producers in a
company
called ACN. I am keenly aware of the recent bankruptcy filing of Excel
Communications and want to begin by offering my heart felt apologies
for
what has happened to you. I cannot even imagine what you must be
feeling right now.

The reason for my email is that my company is also very sorry for your
loss and is willing to allow you the opportunity to recover some of
what
was taken from you. As a Top Executive with ACN, I have been
authorized
to offer you a concession in order for you to get your business back on
track, but I need your immediate response.

I can allow you and your entire team to join ACN for FREE. Even better
than that, I am authorized to allow you to join our company at the
exact
same rank you possess today with Excel. This way you'll lose no income
during the transition. This is a limited time window of opportunity
though, so get in contact with me immediately.

I am currently in Australia where I have helped to launch operations
for
our 18th country. We have already enrolled over 7,000 people in
Australia alone in just 2 months. You can reach me here at....................... I look forward to discussing your options. Take care and speak
soon.

[Residual]

Oh yeah spud, that sucky upline is the one of your rvp leaders in acn that wrote this letter, the one that told me free does'nt work,mmmmmmm I guess its only good for the co-founders and its leaders, not the reps in the field!

[April47]

Alright... I'm not in the mood to argue with you.. and i didn't even read half of what you wrote... so i'll just leave it at this... you have your opinion, i'll have mine... I am having great success with ACN... and have helped many people have great success as well... we have promoted many many ETTs and many who HAVE hit ETT in 30 days... one hit it in 17... we were able to buy what we have BECAUSE we have helped so many people... that's the point I was trying to make... you aren't successful in ACN unless you make others successfull too... I am sorry you have such a bad taste in your mouth for this company... but in my opinion... it is a GREAT opportunity... I am working with friendly happy people... and I love it... I won't be replying anymore because I have other things more important that I have to deal with for now... but DON'T bash ACN... I figure the reason they cut bonuses in half is to motivate you to develop more leaders... it makes sense to me anyways... and if they didn't do something like that... they couldn't afford to pay people so greatly... I'm not complaining.. I still get paid well... and I'm ready to work... so good luck with your new company...

[April47]

Originally Posted by Residual

Oh yeah spud, that sucky upline is the one of your rvp leaders in acn that wrote this letter, the one that told me free does'nt work,mmmmmmm I guess its only good for the co-founders and its leaders, not the reps in the field!

again... one more thing... normally... free DOESN'T work... however.. these excell reps have worked hard to build an organization under them.. only to have it ripped out from undernieth them... (which is the same thing that has happened to our cofounders... ) i think everyone knows this is an awful thing to have happen... and our cofounders know what it feels like.. so they are being nice and allowing them to join for free (for a limited time).... under ANY rep... i believe it's completely fair... because they have all taken the time to build organizations just like all of the current ACN reps.. so they shouldn't have to start all over again.... what's so bad about that?

like i said I LOVE THIS COMPANY... and nothing you can say can change it... now quit trying to steal my dream!!

[Residual]

Hey nobodys trying to steal your dream, we are comparing apples to apples thats all our comp. plan is designed for everyone to succeed, not just the top producing reps, that are getting 499 from people that don't do nothing, thats how there paying you all, 8 out of 10 loose their money their, no big deal it is what its is, thats all just remember free is better than a fee any which way you put it. Loving a company doe not pay the bill!

Good Luck there,

[rocky100]

SO I had to respond here. People fighting for their individual companies.. lovely.

2 complaints I have.. I may recruit online and try to share my opportunity, and I may try to point out the differences, but I never try to destroy the other company.. how inviting is that?

You can always tell when you have someone new to network marketing because they always go trash the other companies in building up their own company.

Escape is being run by people who are not of high moral or ethical character.. they tried personally to recruit me and rip my current company and do anything and everything to recruit my organization.. something excel and acn never has done... they even went so far as to come to our local meetings and recruit during the meetings!

You can argue all sides for all reasons, but free isn't really the best model. I know people in Escape right now that half of their organization is not doing anything and they have one of the largest organizations in the company. So half is normal for network marketing in general.. BUT they are not making enough money to pay their bills yet!!! So that is why some upfront money is good in network marketing.. because you have to BUILD a LONG TIME for your residuals to get HUGE! Rep money helps you build and stay in the game because most will die out before the money gets huge in a company like Escape.

[Residual]

In response to this recent post, first of all, I know that the leadership at Escape International doe not condone trashing of other mlm's, if I am going to recruit someone in another mlm, either throught the internet or in person, I let the complans speak for themselves, if you were insulted or insecure of where you stand with your company, or you did not quite understand your current companies complan, and someone in Escape pointed out its faults and loopholes, you got defensive and insecure with your opportunity, does that make them unethical, I personally know the Executive board for that company, they recruited me from my prior company, they did not put a gun to my head, they did not threaten me in anyway, they did not even try to convince me in anyway, they just educated me on their compensation plan vs the compensation plan that I was currently involved in period! To me I took it as a compliment, that they showed interest in my ability to take their company as far as I want, their comp.plan is inferior to all comp plans in the industry today currently, it diffenitely blow away my companies plan, it was not even close. I made a business decision to leave and start over with Escape, because my future and the companies vision is was more attractive to me, they had what my other company has promised for years, whats wrong with that, I am very grateful for them for piqueing my interest on their company. The best and oldest companies out their have cross recruited to build their companies, I know that from seeing it with my own eyes, so don't tell me ACN or Excel has never cross recruited, cause if that what you think, based on the fact that you were never recruited by them, then you have not been in the business as long as you commented on about networkers bashing other companies, its about educating the non mlmer, or the present ones that do not really know their compensation plans. I'll put our comp.plan against anyones out their, and that not bragging its facts against facts. So don't slander or assume that an executive board in unethical, because they tried to educate you on your current company, we do not need anyone that bad to justify those actions, hey maybe those reps were looking at your comp plan to see if they wanted to be reps with your company, hey you never know. I know this, we will not lose a top producing rep at the highest position in our comp plan to any other company out their unless they wanted to walk away from their own publicly traded company, we do not lose money as we move up on our comp plan, we make more, the way it should be, when I or anyone hits 100,000 reps in their organization, we will go public with our own organizations under the escape umbrella, thats true ownership, whose going to walk to another company, you would have to really hate what your doing to do that, no other company is offering that, thats why we will be a *****house, their are only going to be 30 positions to go public, hurry up and get yours while you can, take a good look at our comp.plan and compare it to yours, that all am a saying, I made money with my other company, but I will be truly financial free, here, with true residual income, not bonuses, that why you keep your current job, til you decide how much is enought for your own situation. This is what I know about free, it puts your numbers a lot higher than a fee program, I was in a fee, it did not change the fact that winners gain and losers complain, those that are motivated and willing to work will do it whether is free or a fee! I have experienced both. Lots of success with your current company.

[Dreamorigin]

[quote=Residual]Inresponse to the post, I was with acn for 4 yrs, the only true way to make money in acn is to constantly recruit and charge $499. to get 6customers then you made your bonus depending on where you stand in the compensation plan. Then you got to be lucky to find aggresive reps in your downline that do the same, 80% of the reps do not renew their partnership the following year, and thats because of the 499 and the attrition that comes with that fee. The average rep in network marketing acquires 3.81 customers per rep, in acn that means ZERO! DOLLARS for you when you take someones 499. and they don't get qualified, because their not as good as you, or you have to do it all for them. QUOTE]
Let's not forget that not only do you have to find 6 customers, you have to find 3 Reps to get 6 customers each. Those are Reps that pay $499 as well...Then after all that you get your $499 back. If people received their $499 back only just getting 6 customers, then why even take it. That would be easy. It is NOT easy to get your average person to invest $499 with a business and ACN knows this. I have MORE products and services that ACN...I have NO GUILT recruiting because my opportunity is free for all Reps. ACN does not have to charge $499 for you to be their advertising department. There are so many things that people do not realize about ACN and the top positions. They do not tell you A LOT to get you to join. I am very disappointed that I spent my $499 and realized that I was with a company that offers out dated services at WAY out dated prices. They also fail to disclose openly that you may get 4.9c long distance out of State, but when you get your bill you see that their IN STATE rate is 7c a minute. Deceitful if you ask me. I am in no way putting ACN down...I met a lot of real great people, I just think it's time to walk away from 1996 and JUMP into 2004. ACNR's that want to make that jump... FREE :) www.dreamorigin.com

[rocky100]

hehehe... boy.. this is why I love talking to disillusioned Escape reps.. .their comp plan may have been better than yours.. but not better than all. I never said excel or acn didn't cross recruit. I said, they didn't use the tactics Escape used.

Do you know what ethics are? Do some in depth research in your company. Forget about titles in your company. I know someone else in Escape who has over 1800 reps in his down line in a very short time.. know how much he has made? Less than 500 dollars so far... 500! You expect to become wealthy over the next 3-5 years building a downline for free? The average rep is not even getting their 6 customers in Escape.

In fact the company post its customer gathering numbers for all to see. It isn't that impressive.

Escape makes it money by getting people to buy lifetime memberships in Escape to come to all meetings for free.. So everytime a rep ponies up what $3000 they become a true "Member" and get to attend all functions for free from now on.

And do you really know how much work you are going to have to do to get from stage 3 regional to stage 4 national? More than any other mlm out there.. I have compared 96 companies before getting into 1.. I am a top 5 money earner for my company.. care to compare some more..

I don't get insulted.. I get educated and that is why the multitudes fail in MLM.. they don't educate themselves enough to the best plans.. they are sold on what looks good, gets discouraged later and says it was the company.. it wasn't.. it was the individual most of the time.

[Residual]

Hey Rocky, disillusioned I think not, that rep whom ever he/she is that has 1800 reps, must have gotten them under our old comp.plan, the one that most mlms use as a standard comp.plan, that pay out a bonus once someone gets there 6 custs. that system is old, you need to pull out the new comp plan as of end of Sept. once you are an area rep, everyone that enters your org. whether direct to you or you place them somewhere in your org. you get $3.00 per customer, that hits the book for life in that entire leg, and that goes one for every personally sponsored partner you introduce to your opportunity from there on. I know of no other company that does this coded organization at the first earn position, does your do this? They changed that because lots of reps were not getting their new prospects qualified, so instead of getting nothing if someone comes in and does nothing, which happens, you get compensated for every customer that hits the books. The average rep in MLM acquires 3.81 customers per rep., that for most mlm comp plans means zero bonus paid out to the rep. Hey rocky you know how it is, it does not really matter how good your comp plan is if you don't work the plan period! right! Our hypothetical is structure on using the 3x3 format like most companies, but it shows one rep just getting themselves as a customer, all the way down thru the levels, most companies use the max customers and show what the top position can get you, not the entry level position, that where we are different. I am having fun, making money, and helping whole lot of people, that don't have 499 or 299, or 199 etc. If they decide not to do anything, which happens with a fee or not, I get no complaints, they lose no money here!

Take Care,

[Residual]

Oh rocky I almost forgot, I have never, never been asked to spend money for lifetime memberships for meetings, etc. As a matter of fact, we went on our first convention at sea to the bahamas, and we are giving away free cruises to the field that no matter where you stand in our comp plan, you can earn one, not like most companies where only the top level of the comp plan reps qualify if they meet certain criteria. Check out our site you'll see our cruise diary. www.escapeintl.com :)

[rocky100]

first off.. you still haven't answered my question.. how much do people make to make a living.. thats what it is all about.

2nd, wether someone comes in and does anything or not.. if that is the attitude, then I know no one is going to get paid..

and 3rd, you will be having the conversation about the lifetime fees.. it is in the policies and procedures if you look at it.

4th, when we did our cruises, they launched their program.. when we started giving away Mercedes Benz, they said they would do the same.

And as far as going public with stock.. only companies that need money do that in any field.. and when things go hairy.. investors get the last say.. not reps.. look at what just happened to Excel and being owned by a public company.

[April47]

rocky you are one smart person.... good points... i don't know what company you market for... but they're lucky to have you...

[mobster0024]

as an ACN rep, i don't condone that kind of behavior, knowing this is a people business you have to play the numbers, there's noway i beg and plead for someone to take a look at what i have to offer. if they say "not interested" i move on to the next.
some will, some won't, so what, NEXT!!!

[Residual]

Hey mobster, you just started at acn, and your going to tell me that the money your making at acn in 2 weeks helped you buy that mercedes! ha, come, who you trying to play. Are you an ett yet, probably right since you got your money back or did you get 20 custs. in 30 days, are you tcabing yet, cause if your not u ain't making no dough!, and if you think your going to make carpayments every month on those tcabs, you'd better know how and when their paid out!, if you've haven't figured it out yet, I know your company inside and out. What are you going to do when your whole downline is saying next, cause no one will see beyond the 499, smell like the repo man will be visiting, listen man I hope you make it, all I can tell you is be careful, don't get hipnotized on what the tc and rvps are telling u and promising you, your a cab for them period, all those cliches your popping out,guess what i said them too. How many ****** customers you have, cell phone cust. opps..they've been promising that for years, and also being a public company yeah, its a great training ground to better mlm/network Marketing companies. And I almost forgot, the reason you have attorney's assigned to your company is because you get them when you get in trouble, why do you think acn and other companies charge 499, because at 499 its not considered a true business until you surpass that and spend over 500 for you business, after you buy cds, supplies, webstools,etc. You have attorneys because you need them. Thats why you need them, they disguise them to make you think they are there for prevention! ..By the way who is your rvp, or svp, or tc?

[Residual]

hey rocky you must be confusing your companies,we don't give out mercedes, are you from nexx, seems like april likes your bad information, oh that right she's with acn that company can really smoke some mirrors, they do a great job hipnotizing there people.

[mobster0024]

I don't wanna argue with you! I've been involved with ACN for about 8 months now. I'm about to change my pin to TC in the upcoming months. I'm upset it took me this long with the simplicity of this company. I can't wait to walk the stage at our next National in Dallas,Tx. do you even know we have a new compensation plan as of Jan 1st.? it's pretty awesome!!! did you know there's a new earned position called SC (senior Coordinator). My RVP is Big AL S.

[Residual]

Hey Mobster, I am very aware of the new comp.plan, their trying, but they will still lose alot of reps. Acn cannot compete with us, it will never, they just got in the game years ago, watch us, we will catch up, one step at a time. Attrition will set in, your bottom feeders the reps that are not making money, as ACN calls them will leave, when they figure out the plan. Make all the money you can with t-cabs (recruiting) thats where the money is at acn. They paint a great picture, when the fantasy clears, reality hits. Why do you think they are trying to rearrange the picture, they are losing alot of reps to us and other free enterprises. Those promotions are only temporary read, I am sure you know that. Hope you loop the stage, its a great feeling, have they sit you up in the front seats yet, so you can really feel the rah rah. Make the right choices for you and your futures long term success...Run now before you regret it, that is if your in it for the right reasons, like true residual income. ACN never recognizes the little rep, they only recognize the cream of the crop, the people you help put tcabs into their pockets.

[Residual]

mobster, one last thing, do you know that in order for you to get an infinity payout thru infinity, you have to be an rvp with acn, i know they thru u a small bone at the ett position with a small generational, but we earn infinity coded pay at the 1st.earned position in our comp.plan, we will have reps at the 1st earned position out earning rvps or top producers in all the top companies, especially acn. Don't get upset with me, I am just trying to educate reps that don't know the real story, at least if you know what to expect, and accept that thats the way you wanna do people to make money, then ok. But when you don't know what to expect, and you think the money is huge at tc, your in for a big surprise, again you better tcab and have ett,tt popping and qualifying tt, the average rep in mlm acquires 3.81 customers, in acn that means zero dollars!

[rocky100]

You know.. I recently went through a 2 month education period and walked away from my company and I was one of the top 5 money earners there...

These service companies... you have nothing to look forward to but decreased revenues... whether it is NEXX, ACN, EXCEL (gone), ESCAPE.. really doesn't matter... reason being.. all service based companies have to have their partners or their rates lowered to stay competitive which in turn drives your residuals down. Where is the long term money in this?

I even met some RVP's who walked away from ACN because after over-riding 500,000 customers and 20 million in billing, their residuals were not that great.. it was ALL from Tcaps!

Then price to get in these companies- for most except escape- is 300-500- or more!

Leadership is important.. escape, main person who helped design the comp and everything.. gone, nexx-- ceo in legal troubles.. leaving... acn.. joke.. excel.. got removed..

see my point!

Now, I know that is why product based companies are where it is at.. I am making the switch.. steady money.. no up front cost.. no tcaps to deal with.. and you have to have a truely righteous product...

education is bliss.

[April47]

Residual... you make me laugh... i haven't read most of this conversation because frankly i just don't care to... but i get updates in my email of this thread and just happened to read one where you were critisizing the $499 saying that we're not a real business because we're not charging at least $500... but isn't the business you're in FREE? how is anything tax deductable? honestly.. are you listed with the IRS as a business owner? yeah i checked out your business... you have local phone, long distance, VoIP, and sell vitamins for goodness sake! and let me ask you... what company is the largest direct seller of communications in the world?!?! not yours... and also.. you say the money is made by getting reps... hopefully you also realize that no bonuses are paid until these reps get customers... even team cabs... so yes.. the team cabs and team bonuses DO help with the upfront money... but the whole point of this business is to stick with it LONG TERM to build RESIDUAL... even if reps quit... most of them still brought customers to you... do reps quit your business? i'm sure they do... cause that's just how people are... and also... of course they're not going to pay out infinity bonuses to anyone below ETT... they'd go freakin bankrupt... they are smart business men... plus that's also incentive to get to RVP... and even if you never make it to RVP the residual posibilities are still there... you CAN make $10,000 a month residually as an ETT... or even a TT.. even if it takes you 10 years... it's possible... and i don't understand how it would be fair to have first positioners outearning RVPs.. when they haven't went through what the RVPs did to get where they're at... it doesn't make sense to me... although i know there are some ETTs who have good months and outearn TCs who have bad months...
and also (i'm responding as i am reading each post so this may sound broken) you say that the average rep gets 3.81 customers... well sure... because there are plenty of reps that don't get customers at all... and there are also some that have 300 customers... that's the whole point of an average... they take the the whole amount of reps and divide it by the whole amount of customers and come up with an amount that has nothing to do with anything... frankly yes... a lot of people will come into your business and get only a few customers... more so than will come in and get 100... but the whole point of this business is to sort through the lazy (yes LAZY) people and get to the people who actually have drive and a desire to succeed... the only people who do not succeed in this business is those who give up...


rocky... how is ACN leadership a joke? explain this to me.. and i'm not talking about the RVPs here... i'm talking about the 5 cofounders... what's so funny about them?

and you say product based companies are where it's at? i feel sorry for you... product based companies are the reason so many people are soooo scared of network marketing... all i hear is "I did amway and now i'm stuck with a garage full of product i can't sell" or "I sold vitamins and now I'm stuck with a crapload of overstock i can't even give away".... service based companies... we have no freakin product to ship around... we don't need a warehouse... we don't need to deliver anything... and once we sell it to one person... we don't have to go back to that person every week to see if they need some more... sorry buddy but SERVICE based companies are where it's at

[Residual]

Hello, Rocky, I almost agree with you! ha, its funny, at acn, former excel, all they do is talk bad about potions,lotions, products, I learned the hard way too, there is alot of money in products, at escape we have wellness,gonna get skin care, the voip,telcom, is there too, voip is the hottest communication right now, because of its pricing, and its not affected by deregulation. We have a deeper vision here, wellness is a major venture for us, we have a great product, but we also invision being a bank, healthcare provider, we are not staying the the typical mlm cirlce, we are changing the industry, one step at a time...I agree with the attrition and residual decreases, As far as the leader of Escape, the new Escape, its The same gentlemen, that's been there since I've been involved with them. You can check out our site, his on the front page, explaining and introducing himself to all, and telling his story on why we are free. Alot of the mlm giants are very worried about what we are doing, people are getting educated, that a fee is not really necesarry to run and effective and successful mlm, especially an honest one. From your experience, I gather you've seen some crazy things while being in the industry, I just get upset, when these companies blinding these reps,they camoflauge their comp.plans, and they rah rah the reps, instead of lying it out. Man ACN is very good at that. Like I've said hear before, I learned the hard way. Great post!

[April47]

residual... what team were you on in ACN?

since you're all about education... why don't you educate us about YOUR business for once... what exactly is your comp plan? what products/services does your company offer? who are your leaders and why are they great? how does your company afford to payout those bonuses when there is no charge to join? are you listed in the IRS as a business owner? is your company a member of the better business bureau? how did your company do in their 5th year of business (were they in Inc 500) does your company have any special accolades or accomplishments? do you have customer service available 24/7? do you have rep services? how do they pay their employees? how do they pay for licensing?

and DON'T slam other mlm's when you answer these questions (if that's even possible for you to do) i don't want to hear why you left ACN or why ACN is bad.. blah blah... i want to know what is so great about your company that you feel you need to put down other companies

[mobster0024]

Escape International has only been around since 2001. in order to hit the INC 500 list, you need to be in business for at least 5 years as ACN has done (ranked #22). I really don't need to say anything, ACN International is a well established Company with a 12 year old track record. take a look at our charts, we're growing at 49.2% annually the past two years and soon to become a billion dollar a year company. everybody's talking about us. ACN has recently been documented as the #1 direct selling phenomenon in the world (Fortune Mag-2004). we will become the premiere phone company in the world. we beat Verizon and SBC 100% of the time, that is awesome!

[rocky100]

If you are really willing to educate yourself on service based companies, I think you may wake up somewhat. When a company offers services, the only way to stay competitive is by lowering the prices. Period..

This effects the residuals you earn.

Lets VOIP.. since everyone is gung ho about this. I am a fan of VOIP.. so don't get me wrong.. but as a market to make money you are chasing the wrong tail and I will bet money on it.

There are 188 million local phone lines in America as of last month. Census numbers came out and said that 50% of America does not even own a computer.. so that rules out about 99 million lines right? Ok, now of those that have computers, 72% of households are still on dialup! That leaves you with what-- about 28 million lines roughly? Of those that have high speed, 50%! are on DSL not cable.. which means they have no need to VOIP since you have to have a phone line to have DSL.. that is 14 million.. and of those 14 million.. how many have a high enough speed 1.5 mps or greater to handle VOIP?

I believe it will get better in the future.. but it has years and years to go.. the calls still lag a few seconds for calls even on business networks!

Now, lastly.. VOIP came out, 49 a month.. then 39, then 29, now as low as 19! HELLO! A trend in services.. and now this year the Bell companies are coming out with some things that will even make it hard for Escape and their partner, Vonage, ACN to compete with them....

And I am a fan of VOIP.. but hey, I guess you think you know where the money is at. I remember when Internet companies were popping up left and right and everyone thought there was money it... then they found out different and 80% of them went out of business! I see this trend coming again.

Now, lets address products.. I don't Amway had a good deal.. too many products but not even their own.. they diversed into partner products..

Some of these companies had reps that were telling people to "frontload" product and that is how people get stuck with product.. but if you have a truly consumable product, then there is no need to for people to ever get stuck with product because they use what they buy... no storage.. and a true setup would be having people become distributors themselves so that you are not a milkman.. no delivery.. once they are on.. true residual with no stock...

[April47]

see what i like about ACN is that they actually offer a wide range of services and are always adding more... right now we offer long distance and internet which are available in all areas... local phone and DSL which is available in most areas... gas and electric.. available in certain cities nationwide... we are open to market cell phones in europe and are doing VERY well over there right now... and we will be open to market them in the US as soon as the dust settles from the number portability change... and in the future (no idea when.. but it's coming) we have VoIP, cable, and bundling (putting all services we offer onto one bill) I'm actually proud of our services and am glad that they lower them to keep up with the competition... even if that means a minor pay cut for me... as long as my customer is happy i am happy.. and honestly i haven't had one person come up to me and tell me that they didn't like the service... my mom loved it so much that she became a rep... and the word is spreading where we live about how good the service is.. that people are actually coming up to her and asking her to put them on it! we also saved a local business $2000 a year on their long distance bill... how can i not be proud of that??? if we were marketing services that were useless or didn't save anyone any money then my feelings toward ACN would be different... but when it comes right down to it... the services are great... and i am proud to offer them to my friends and family.. and also we ARE kind of in the products a little because we have a global mall... when we partner with the company we get our own site that links to hundreds of brand name stores... and then when someone buys something from the stores on our site we get a percentage of what they bought... i guess i don't really understand how "residual" works in product based companies... because it seems to me that once you sell a product... you have to sell it again to make any profit on it again... you don't get paid every day when they take their vitamin... do you know what i mean? so from what i understand... in order to make any money in product based companies you have to constantly be selling your product... what happens when people don't want to buy it anymore? i know that's what happened with amway... and some of amways products WERE consumable... i was a dept. manager for a consumable dept. at wal-mart for 2 years so i understand how consumables work... and also how selling products work... and i know that if customers got sick of driving to our wal-mart and went somewhere else... then we would go out of business.... now with a service-based industry people don't change how they buy things... they just change who they write the check to.. and i like that... so that's just my opinion... and maybe you can show how exactly the residual works with a product based industry so i can better understand where you're coming from.. thanks :)

[April47]

oh and one more thing... you say that service based industries have to lower their prices to compete... but don't product based industries have to do the same thing? because if people can get the same product elsewhere for cheaper they're going to go there, right?

[bman]

The thing with any network marketing company is that some people will succeed and some won't. Those that don't succeed aren't bad people they just quit trying. Network marketing works, but it doesn't mean it works for everyone. It takes work. Show me a network marketing company that doesn't require any work to make good money and I will show you a scam that will be shut down very quickly.

The fact of the matter is those who apply themselves will see success. Not everyone can retire being a network marketer. I am a new Rep with ACN and have made a little money. I love the opportunity. I couldn't sell vitamines or other things to people that just isn't me. It doesn't make other companies bad. I have several friends who have had success with those things. Two of my best friends are reps under me, they have done jack squat and they know it is their own fault they haven't made any money. It isn't the companies fault. Everyone on my team knows how the pay plan works and they know that they need to work to make it succeed. It isn't something someone else is going to do for you, you have to do it yourself. It is true entrepenuership. I have an upline and a downline that work very well with me. We know that in order to see success we need each other but it is still up to you.

My friends who have done nothing know very well the value and the incredible potential that ACN offers and they understand that unless they do something they won't see it. The first time we were all presented ACN we were told that this doesn't happen overnight, commit yourself for two years and you will see incredible success.

I thought about where I was two years ago and realized that I was at pretty much the same place I now that I was then. I didn't like that at all. I know it takes work, but everything takes work (unless you have rich parents).

Anyone who goes into network marketing needs to realize it takes work, it doesn't happen overnight and it isn't easy. However, the potential far outweighs the negative. Every MLM company has something to offer, it is really just finding what interests you and running with it. Too many times people jump ships from one to another and never see success. Stick with whatever you are doing and if you work at it you will see success. Get in and play around with it a little and you will get very little.

Everyone in ACN knows that it takes a while to build up residual income. But thats fine, it is money I wasn't making everymonth before I signed up as a rep.

[jvaldez]

LCI was purchased by Qwest ( Formerly US West ) in 1998. Traditional long distance in the consumer marketplace is such a commodity, its hard to sell and generate a positive ROI. This was the reason AT&T backed out of consumer LD last year. ACN is on the street talking about VOIP and Cell Phones as if were the best thing since electricity. Fact ... VOIP and Cellular technology are not new, they have been around for years. Some companies ( ACN as an example ) are touting VOIP and Cellular as a Hot product, this is all hype. ACN is a reseller of services, they do not own their own network, switches, hardware, etc... If you’re into MLM enterprises, approaching family and friends to join your network, sell services that are not competitively priced and have questionable customer care, it’s up to you. The Devil Is In The Details. Hope This Helps.

Originally Posted by GiantRobot

ACN is kind of legit, yeah.

They deliver real services. It is just that there services are the same as they were when I first joined in 1996.

They have not *****ed... And the products/services are outdated big-time, because nowadays you have VOIP (Voice over IP) and you have other services much cheaper than what they offer.

I mean, they were HOT in 1996 before VOIP and they had that deal with the old LongDistance company: LCI (Anyone remember them?).

LCI was gobbled up though later by I think BT.

And all the LongDistance stuff is so over-with.

When I joined, I took out 4 c-notes ($400) to buy the "kit" (A video tape and a paper application).

That was it. I never did sell anything because I was jammin' in another biz at the time. I didn't even mind the $400 bucks I lost on the kit either.

Making matters more challenging, even though you pay the $400 bucks, if you don't sell in 6 months they kill your membership (or they used to).

Adios

GR

[bman]

The majority of the telecom companies out there lease lines & networks. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be so many different choices. Noone wants streets being dug up to put in new lines so the leasing of lines is a very common thing. If you don't like it talk to your congressman. Look in your local yellow pages under telecom, only one or two companies in there actually own the lines.

I have nothing against any other phone service provider, I personally never cared, the thing about it is the opportunity. As long as I know they are a reputable company and provide a good service, I have no problem making money off of it.

As far as cell phones and VOIP go, we all know that it isn't a new thing, we aren't stupid. We don't care, it is just a new opportunity for us, and that is all we want.

[jvaldez]

The problem with MLM reps selling telecom services ( e.g. Excel, ACN, etc... ) is they are so poorly trained. They use hype and spin to discount factual data to the point where they come across as ridiculous to those educated in the industry. Regarding the quote, " The majority of the telecom companies out there lease lines & networks ". WRONG. There are three types of companies, IXC's ( long distance ), RBOCs ( your local phone company ) and resellers ( e.g. Excel, ACN, etc. ). Tier 1 IXCs have their own networks PERIOD. They do pay the local phone company to originate and terminate calls for them. Tier 1 RBOCs ( e.g. Verizon, SBC, Qwest, Bell South, etc... ) all have their own local networks PERIOD. RBOCs are so interested in buying IXCs so they can acquire their own national network. I won’t talk about that now as that’s another topic in itself. All others are called resellers, meaning they don’t have their own network, they buy and resell services, PERIOD. The bottom line here is that IT DOES MATTER WHO YOU BUY FROM. As an educated consumer would you buy a service from a TIER 4 or 5 provider? Meaning the service had been purchased in bulk and sold and re-sold 4 or 5 times. I'm sure there is some MLMer selling telecom that will try to discount these facts with a , " it doesn’t matter anyway dude " comment or two but in the end, the facts are undisputable.

As far as the quote, “Noone wants streets being dug up to put in new lines so the leasing of lines is a very common thing “. This is so absurd, I’m not sure what these MLM trainers are putting in the kool-aid. I’m sorry but there are no words of wisdom for a comment so far off the mark its unbelievably illogical.

You should care about learning the facts about the product you sell. Knowledge is Wisdom, Wisdom is *****. When it comes to selling and making money, Knowledge far outweighs Hype, Spin and Marketing.

Pay attention MLMers, the devil is in the details!!! Have A Nice Day...

Originally Posted by bman

The majority of the telecom companies out there lease lines & networks. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be so many different choices. Noone wants streets being dug up to put in new lines so the leasing of lines is a very common thing. If you don't like it talk to your congressman. Look in your local yellow pages under telecom, only one or two companies in there actually own the lines.

I have nothing against any other phone service provider, I personally never cared, the thing about it is the opportunity. As long as I know they are a reputable company and provide a good service, I have no problem making money off of it.

As far as cell phones and VOIP go, we all know that it isn't a new thing, we aren't stupid. We don't care, it is just a new opportunity for us, and that is all we want.

[bman]

I work for the # 1 business provider of phone lines in the intermountain west. We lease our lines from the major carrier just as every other competitor does. Don't tell someone to get the facts straight when you have no idea.

Back off ACN if you don't like it that is fine. Obviously it works for some people, why is it such a quest of yours to try to ruin someones dreams? MLM marketing is work, it isn't easy, anyone going into it should know that but come on, don't act like you know what you are talking about when you really have no clue.

I will agree with you on one thing, that reps are not totally trained when it comes to selling something and that frustrates me, but you know what call any customer service rep for any company and I think you would agree that their knowledge is very limited.

It is pointless to argue this back and forth (of course I know you will anyway) but the fact of the matter is, if ACN were so bad they wouldn't be growing at a 49% a year rate. If you don't like it that is fine, but you make it sound like it is your lifes goal to make sure noone else can enjoy something. I don't particularly like McDonalds but you don't see me out there telling people to not go.

That being said I will now take my $7,000 residual check to the bank, what are you going to do with yours?

[rocky100]

OK, I have to comment on this one... not knocking ACN but YOU need to get your facts straight.. they are growing 49% a year how?

Do you know? When you make the comment the way you did talking about products.. they aren't growing 49% a year via products.. that is financially which is from RECRUITING people to pay the hundreds of dollars to join.. period.

[rocky100]

Actually, product based companies run the right way will never lower their price.. such as Tahitian Noni Juice.. the competition is not real that exist therefore they don't change the way they do business.

Service based comanies cannot and will never be able to do that. Plus some Product based companies are just resellers as well, you have to find one that actually manufactures themselves and owns the product.

Now, this guy with the 7000 residual check in ACN.. I would like to know how long you have been in and how many customers you say you get paid on.. if you would answer.

[bman]

Does it really matter? No matter what I tell you, you don't know me so you will argue with me no matter what I say.

From $2 million in sales to $640 million in sales in 12 years. Average growth right around 49% give or take a point or two.

Not a dime is made off a rep signing up. Money is only made when customers are aquired.

Why does everyone rip on something that has been so good to many people. If it was a scam the government would have shut it down years ago.

Tahitian noni does have competition... Xango, the two companies are only about 15 miles away from each other just right up I-15 and Xango is growing faster than Tahitian Noni ever did. Doesn't make either of the products bad I am very familiar with both of them and obviously they offer good stuff and their marketing works for those who get involved and apply themselves.

Can't we just agree to disagree here. You have what works for you and I have what works for me. I'm done with these pointless arguments. For those who care, Yes ACN is legit, it is a very solid company and is growing very rapidly. No it isn't perfect, but let me know what is. No it isn't easy, but just as in any other MLM company the payouts and the benefits are worth the hard work and effort.

Unlike many companies you do not need to purchase a certain amount of product every month, you simply just pay your phone,gas, electric bill.