sCAM...SCAM...SCAM...SCAM...SCAM please!

[kevinb.]

you know i find less scams uncovered here than opportunities people are just plain lazy and riskless to explore.

a question to anyone out there...DO YOU HAVE ANY BETTER IDEAS!

perhaps a franchise...mmm...how much does that cost?

perhaps your own small business of choice...mmm...i wonder how much that costs?

the TRUTH is everyone...if you want something out of the ordinary in life...you WILL have to engage in something...OUT of the ordinary.

people seemed to be trapped in this middle-class thinking...im not poor...but im not rich...im just right.

Wrong!

we are closer to the poor house than we are being wealthy!

we seem to rally around an idea of creating mega-wealth without risking a thing.

most of these new businesses whether mlm, direct-selling, whatever!...charge no more than 100.00-300.00 to get started.

perhaps we shall put this into perspective...the entry fee to these types of business are...franchise fees! although the "business opportunity" you will embarking upon does not appear to be like other "standard" businesses (grocery stores, investing firms, etc.)...you know why?

you are an employee of that company! the company itself (that provides the product or service) is a "standard" business...its payout to its "employees" is unique.

what regulations are there on a strictly commissioned employee structure?

none. you sign paperwork that states you understand that this is not an hourly-wage job.

"standard" business such as mortgage companies and real estate brokerages operate the same way! think about it...these companies pay commission only! creating in many cases a unique payment structure to its associates...for example, if a sales rep closes loans in excess of 1,000,000 or more the rate of commission is 70%...if the rep closes under 1,000,000 the commission rate offered is 50%.

so you see...you're simply an employee of a company.
or you can understand it as an inexpensive franchise.

however you look at it do something with yourselves please...instead of dragging yourself to work with the dream that in the next 30 years...if you just work there your income will be commensurate with the time you have invested and your little retirement plan shall be "the bomb". think again!

the only SCAM is you giving yourself reasons to not get up off your tail and taste the opportunity waiting for you!

until then,

kevinb.

[Synik]

Well...that sounds all well and fine but, most of what is offered out there like Quixtar, MarketAmerica, Amway....are mlm...and as such, they are scams.

[letspreadtheword]

Quixtar, Amway...etc, are all legitimate MLM's but they require work and training to succeed. Amway pioneered the legality of MLM in 1974. Why wasn't it shut down. By your response I'm not sure if you were born by then. So it may not be your fault that you don't know the meaning of a scam.

[Synik]

Quixtar and Amway are both scams. The are both pyramids schemes...they are both MLM's. 98% of people either lose or make no money in these plans.

These plans stay above the law due to the millions they spend lobbying. Neither one meets the "70%" litmus test.

They make the majority of their moneys selling product and motivational material too their own people.

Dress it up any way you like, it's an idiot's folly to get involved.

[Nipitnthebud]

You are right people need to get off their butts and do something but make sure before you invest years of your life in a company and building a business or downline that it won't be stolen from you because of a legal term in their policies. READ THEM before you join! If you are looking for a get rich quick program this of course does not matter. It is your choice. By promoting these programs you are in fact adding to the scam factor and stealing more money from people who are looking for a legitimate business opportunity. Please do your due diligence and read and investigate before you jump on the bandwagon.

[Travel Gent]

Originally Posted by letspreadtheword

Quixtar, Amway...etc, are all legitimate MLM's but they require work and training to succeed. Amway pioneered the legality of MLM in 1974. Why wasn't it shut down. By your response I'm not sure if you were born by then. So it may not be your fault that you don't know the meaning of a scam.

Amway/Quixtar is legal only because of the lobbying efforts of those that give millions to political campaigns. And they do not enforce the 70% sales rule (they wink at it) that made them legal in the first place. I've heard Jody Victor giggle about the meeting they had with the FTC a few years ago after the launch of Quixtar and how the $50 rule to get a bonus check was implemented.

80% of the money generated by Amway/Quixtar is in the tool business. It does not take a math wiz to figure out the a $.65 tape selling for $6.00 generates a lot of income. Before you have the knee jerk spaz reaction, I KNOW THAT THERE IS GOOD STUFF ON THE TAPES/CDs THAT can and DO help a lot of people personally develop.

My problem is with the secracy behind it all. It makes it seem a little fishy to me.

How do I know? I was a Founders Platinum that saw tool money....

[ohein56]

TravelGent and Synic,

Your posts/statements.

How do you KNOW that's true? Where do you get your information?

Have you ever tried to build a Network Marketing business yourself?

Just wondering! :D

[cscirpoli]

sigh, if you're going to post inteligently for either side of the argument at least read the entire post of the person before you try to make a point... ie...ohein 56 queation: "how do you know that's true...have you ever tried to buld a Network Marketing business yourself?"

Travel Gent,

"I was a Founders Platinum in Quixtar" in the prior post...

[kevinb.]

hello all. thank you for your responses.

the fact that many read but only 7+ members felt the need to post...should tell us something!

the united states of america's free enterprise system is NOT about building ANYTHING honestly and justly...see: slave enterprise
see: alcohol and gambling industry's transition to unlawful to...LAWFUL practice.

how many "standard businesses" do you know of that have been legal pegged for performing and practicing unlawful? at the same time they lawfully pay their associates at the starting rate of $4.75 and up. not $4.75 a unit...$4.75 an hour. what globe can an individual make a living with that, globe 21?...but see, its lawful at $4.75 (whatever the minimum wage in your state)but clearly...un ethical and unrealistic.

i suppose what i would like to express...DO ANY OF US HAVE A BETTER IDEA!?

are you suggesting that i JUST WORK...that's my destiny? thats other fellow member's destiny?

you see...when you tell someone, "thats a scam" you've provided a service...the individual has set her/himself on a path...when she/he has met your interjection, "thats a scam" the individual has to make a decision. now its nice of you to warn someone, at the same time did you provide a "bridge"?

see i find it problematic for us to stop someone on a path...and provide a warning that she/he should continue...then FAIL to provide a comparable alternative...you see that is selfish.
you go on your way...feeling like you have provided your daily duty and the individual has been left with a "wide gap" to figure out.

dont do that.

much of this is naysaying.

i wonder how many successful individuals deal with people getting in the way with this mess.
a human being has to make decisions despite the obvious risks involved.
thats why we call this success...when a level of ridicule, risk, and doubt has been flat proved WRONG or overlooked with the evidence of GAIN.
no one said conduct ourselves unlawful.

trust these words though...you will NOT succeed in much of anything if you operate out of the sheer desire to piggy-back the law.
many of us have talked about business on this board...have ALL of us reserved a trade/service name with your state? have you paid the patent and trade office its fee to research and register your name and logo. do you have your Tax number yet?
oops just broke some laws there...time to hide under the bed...the POe-POe's coming to get you (police)~

what im saying is that...if you want something out of this great country take risks...otherwise have much success with your state volunteer position as a SCAM buster a.k.a. "naysayer".

whats the comp-plan on that?

with love,
kevinb.

[Synik]

kevinB,

The sentiment is appreciated. The problem is...it's only a risk if the odds of success aren't overwhelming. At 98% people how lose or make no money at all, it's not a risk, its a stupid play.

OP is pretty good. but many of the scams mentioned on here are ILLEGAL RIP OFFS no matter how hard you work.

[GWS Marketing]

Scams: 98.63% are Scammed
What They Will Not Tell You.

The Home-Based Business Industry is an over $429 Billion a year industry, which is more than the pharmaceutical industry, food industry, and general consumer goods industry all combined. Due to the sheer numbers of people in business for themselves who are increasingly wanting to work from home and the low start-up costs, flexible hours, and easy use of the Internet, people everywhere are tempted to start home based businesses. At the same time, there are literally millions of other individuals and companies who propose that they know how the very best offer.

But... do they?

The reality is that you only find out after you pay and try to make it work. Statistics show that this is when people inevitably find that they have once again wasted hard earned money and extremely valuable time on something that truly does not give them what they need to run a business.

Internet or not, a business is a business and you need considerable time as well as money to generate a significant income if you are doing it honestly and truly helping people. So, you are left in the middle of the game, virtually alone (unless you buy something and the seller makes you a temporary friend to reward you), left to try another offer, and another offer, and another offer- continuing to waste your time and money.

Over 98.6% of everyone who tries a home business fails. They lose more money than they invest and an increasing number of people fail to the point of serious debt.

Why?

Money, Time, Resources, Connections, Supports, Marketing Know-How, and So On. To date, there simply has not been a solution for this- no one stepped up to the plate and said: "Ok, we'll take it upon ourselves to put all of the time, money, resources, connections, supports, and market know-how into developing something that truly gives people what they want.

When asked what people want out of a home business, 99.36% of all individuals indicate that the ideal situation would be an offer that would give them a business with all of the benefits but none of the work, time, or hassle. In response to that, we've developed products that provide people with this exact solution. We've developed the ideal.

No....This is not "automated" system. These types of "automated" sales systems you will find on absolutely every corner of the Internet and provide you with little more than a fancy way to buy another offer that requires further money, time, and hassle on your behalf. The worse part is that you have to somehow disguise the fact that you are either not making any real money and/or know very well that most people will not make money with this very type of system- and may even go into serious debt.

So, what does this mean?

You've actually become exactly like the very people you've despised in your 9 to 5 or in other situations who roped you into doing things you hated or simply used you instead of providing you with what you deserve. You've also become roped into something yourself that simply has no guarantees. This is one of the main reasons why people move from offer to offer even when they are making some money. They hate what they are doing and at some level are discontent with who they are becoming. They know the statistics- they've experienced them. They know that the absolute greatest majority of people who purchase their products will fail. Where does that leave them?

Where does this leave you?

So, what's the answer?

If you'd like, take a look for yourself. There are over 268 million listings across the Internet for home based businesses and supports on the Internet. After you are finished going through all of these and you find the one that guarantees you the income you choose with absolutely no time or further money investment whatsoever, feel free to drop us a note.

You'll see many "autopilot" and "automated" sales systems. Many of these even look fancy and sound great on the surface. After you find those, contact a real person, get a written guarantee of the income you desire, and let us know how that goes.

These "automated" systems are like driving an automatic car where you are actually doing all the work, fueling the car with your hard earned money, wasting your time, and dealing with all the traffic. They may be a fancy vehicle, but the fancier they are, the more your maintenance costs.


So what’s the answer?

Find a group that has resources, the marketing know-how, the connections, the time, and so forth to make your investment work- for YOU. Work with a guarantee that you have in writing & with people committed to your financial success!

[Steady]

Originally Posted by ohein56

How do you KNOW that's true? Where do you get your information?

Have you ever tried to build a Network Marketing business yourself?

Just wondering! :D

ohein have you ever drank a bottle of bleach ?
How do you KNOW it's bad for you? You haven't tried it yet ?

Have you ever let a 3 ton lorry drive over your head ?
How do you KNOW what will happen unless it's happened to you ?




The argument that a comment made by somebody that has not been involved with an MLM in not valid is complete bullsh*t.

There is overwelming evidence on the internet alone that reveals these get rich quick schemes to be nothing but scams.

"a wise man learns from others mistakes and not his own"

[Patrick in California]

Originally Posted by Synik

kevinB,

The sentiment is appreciated. The problem is...it's only a risk if the odds of success aren't overwhelming. At 98% people how lose or make no money at all, it's not a risk, its a stupid play.

Where do you get that number from?

And isn't interesting that number closely PARALLELS (generally 95-98%) the statistics of those who UNABLE to support themselves at age 65 without assistance according to Napoleon Hill and the Social Security Administration.

[Patrick in California]

Originally Posted by Steady

ohein have you ever drank a bottle of bleach ?
How do you KNOW it's bad for you? You haven't tried it yet ?

Have you ever let a 3 ton lorry drive over your head ?
How do you KNOW what will happen unless it's happened to you ?

The argument that a comment made by somebody that has not been involved with an MLM in not valid is complete bullsh*t.

There is overwelming evidence on the internet alone that reveals these get rich quick schemes to be nothing but scams.

"a wise man learns from others mistakes and not his own"

Haven't you ever heard of the PARADO PRINCIPLE?

Otherwise know as the 80/20 RULE?

20 percent of the people produce 80 percent of the RESULTS.

Could it be POSSIBLE that those 80 percent are the one's posting most of the NEGATIVE information about MLM on the internet?

And for centuries, almost everyone SAID that man could NOT fly and that the Earth was FLAT.

That did NOT make it true, did it?

[Steady]

Originally Posted by Patrick in California

And for centuries, almost everyone SAID that man could NOT fly and that the Earth was FLAT.

That did NOT make it true, did it?

Patrick I think you've just said something that goes against your own argument.

Just becasue people say it's true, It doesn't mean it's true.

[Agel32008]

Originally Posted by Steady

The argument that a comment made by somebody that has not been involved with an MLM in not valid is complete bullsh*t.

lol.. look who talking? god damn your stupid sometimes

[JohnBogan]

The trick is to know how to spot a scam. Not all MLM's are scams. If you have a great coach who is willing to answer your questions at any given time and you have done your research to discover whether or not the MLM opportunity is a scam, you have no problem. Leadership is what is needed in this industry, and that means people who are willing to unselfishly give their time to help you on your way to success. There are people like that out there.
I wish you success!

[Patrick in California]

Originally Posted by Steady

Patrick I think you've just said something that goes against your own argument.

Just becasue people say it's true, It doesn't mean it's true.

That's the problem with the TRUTH.

Sometimes it can be used AGAINST you.

The good thing is that when you tell the TRUTH, you don't have to remember what you said.

And it is so much EASIER than trying to keep track of a bunch of lies and TRYING to CYA.

[Steady]

WHY do you always write like this :D

[sojustask]

Originally Posted by Steady

The argument that a comment made by somebody that has not been involved with an MLM in not valid is complete bullsh*t.

There is overwelming evidence on the internet alone that reveals these get rich quick schemes to be nothing but scams.

"a wise man learns from others mistakes and not his own"

Get rich schemes are scams. However, that doesn't make MLM a scam.

Saying so is complete bullsh*t.

Lady Mod

[sojustask]

Originally Posted by Patrick in California

Where do you get that number from?

And isn't interesting that number closely PARALLELS (generally 95-98%) the statistics of those who UNABLE to support themselves at age 65 without assistance according to Napoleon Hill and the Social Security Administration.

OMG!!!! OLD age is a scam? Retirement is a scam? Social Security is a scam? :eek:
Why doesn't someone do something about that? Who can these people contact to complain? :cool:


Lady Mod

[Steady]

Originally Posted by sojustask

Get rich schemes are scams. However, that doesn't make MLM a scam.

Saying so is complete bullsh*t.

Lady Mod

MLM's aren't all "Take the money and run" type of scams but the pretty much all mislead people into thinking they will make a lot of money and find financial freedom through there company.

Please give me one example of an MLM that does not tell people they can get rich through there scheme ?

Just one

[sojustask]

Originally Posted by Steady

MLM's aren't all "Take the money and run" type of scams but the pretty much all mislead people into thinking they will make a lot of money and find financial freedom through there company.

Please give me one example of an MLM that does not tell people they can get rich through there scheme ?

Just one

Show me one that specifically promotes on their website that you can? Go ahead click any link at the top of the page. Those are scams. :D

I understand what you are saying Steady. But the MLM's aren't misleading, people have made a lot of money and earned financial freedom through many of these companies. That part is true. When it comes to signing on the dotted line, I have yet to read a contract from any company that makes such a claim. But they are advertising along the same principals that many companies use on television.

Do all these gullible, mislead people believe EVERY single commercial too? What about those infomercials on Sunday mornings that promote 6 pack abs with no effort (just wear the zapper belt which gives muscles an instant workout without the sweat or pop this pill and lose 3 dress sizes in a week), flawless complexion after 2 weeks and a host of other items?

Come to think of it, the gullible do fall for that kind of stuff all the time. Hmmm, maybe we need a scam forum for Commercial/Infomercial scams?

Bottom line, the gullible and easily lead only stop being gullible and easily lead when they start taking responsibility for their own behaviors and stop believing everything they hear and read.


Lady Mod

[Steady]

Originally Posted by sojustask

Do all these gullible, mislead people believe EVERY single commercial too? What about those infomercials on Sunday mornings that promote 6 pack abs with no effort (just wear the zapper belt which gives muscles an instant workout without the sweat or pop this pill and lose 3 dress sizes in a week), flawless complexion after 2 weeks and a host of other items?




Lady Mod

Wow... I think you have just summed up everything I think MLMs are in one little paragraph.

MLMs are everything you just said.

[sojustask]

Originally Posted by Steady

Wow... I think you have just summed up everything I think MLMs are in one little paragraph.

MLMs are everything you just said.

Not really, BUT, gullible people looking for EASY money are everything I just said. One chooses to be a victim of a scam Steady, no one forces them.


Lady Mod

[April47]

Originally Posted by Steady

MLM's aren't all "Take the money and run" type of scams but the pretty much all mislead people into thinking they will make a lot of money and find financial freedom through there company.

Please give me one example of an MLM that does not tell people they can get rich through there scheme ?

Just one

Actually, saying you can make a lot of money and find financial freedom through a company isn't misleading because they can. What is misleading is when someone tells them that they can do it with little-to-no effort. It's usually not the companies saying that though, it's usually the reps.

I'm also running into more and more representatives of companies who are making it known that MLM takes a lot of work, especially if you want the big money. You can definitely make some good money by working part time (notice the word "working" in there), but it will take longer.

You also will probably have to be willing to go through some personal development if you want the "big money," because most people just don't have the right mindset.

[Steady]

Originally Posted by April47

Actually, saying you can make a lot of money and find financial freedom through a company isn't misleading because they can. What is misleading is when someone tells them that they can do it with little-to-no effort. It's usually not the companies saying that though, it's usually the reps.

I'm also running into more and more representatives of companies who are making it known that MLM takes a lot of work, especially if you want the big money. You can definitely make some good money by working part time (notice the word "working" in there), but it will take longer.

You also will probably have to be willing to go through some personal development if you want the "big money," because most people just don't have the right mindset.

April can you please point me in the direction of an MLM company that promotes the above ?

[sojustask]

Originally Posted by Steady

April can you please point me in the direction of an MLM company that promotes the above ?

Most of them Steady. Just because you are misinformed and refuse to believe those who do make money in an MLM doesn't make you or your misinformed guru in your sig line correct about MLM.

Lady Mod

[April47]

Yep... I agree with Lady Mod.

You can make dream-worthy money with most MLM companies. The trick is finding the company that's right for you and finding an upline sponsor that will be honest with you about what it takes to make whatever kind of money you're looking to make.

[bizopca]

Lady Mod said:
"I understand what you are saying Steady. But the MLM's aren't misleading, people have made a lot of money and earned financial freedom through many of these companies. That part is true. When it comes to signing on the dotted line, I have yet to read a contract from any company that makes such a claim. But they are advertising along the same principals that many companies use on television."

It is precisely because of this bait and switch with respect to earnings claims that the FTC is going to extend its jurisdiction explicitly to network marketing.

[Fyst]

Originally Posted by April47

Yep... I agree with Lady Mod.

You can make dream-worthy money with most MLM companies. The trick is finding the company that's right for you and finding an upline sponsor that will be honest with you about what it takes to make whatever kind of money you're looking to make.

There are only two kinds of sales in an MLM: products or "the opportunity". If you sell the opportunity, i.e. in a recruitment based MLM, I think just about everyone here agrees that it is a scam. Yes you can make money, and lots of it (if you get in REAL early), but your gains are because of the massive losses below you.

OTOH you can sell products. With the built-in markups due to the multiple-level of kickbacks (it's MLM, at the end), the products are usually not price-competitive in the open market place. The biggest challenge will be finding repeat customers with sufficient sales volume on a week-by-week, month-by-month, year-by-year basis to buy these overpriced products, without engaging in exaggerated product claims (lies).

No wonder 99% of MLM participants lose money in MLMs.

[April47]

Fyst are you forgetting about the service MLMs? Most of those have very competitive prices, so where's the markup? How about wireless... people are saving hundreds of dollars on cell phones by ordering them through MLM websites instead of purchasing them through suppliers. How does that work into your theory?

Recruiting (AKA "selling the opportunity") isn't a scam... companies whose comp plans are based SOLELY on recruiting (meaning you make little-to-no money on the sales of products or services) are scams. There's a big difference there. (I'm not going to argue with you for days on this, but if you'd like me to explain my opinion on the difference, I will)


..and PLEASE tell me where you got the statistic that 99% of MLM participants lose money in MLMs. Because somehow I don't think that number is completely accurate, and I'd LOVE to know where you found it.

[Steady]

Originally Posted by April47

Actually, saying you can make a lot of money and find financial freedom through a company isn't misleading because they can. What is misleading is when someone tells them that they can do it with little-to-no effort. It's usually not the companies saying that though, it's usually the reps.

I'm also running into more and more representatives of companies who are making it known that MLM takes a lot of work, especially if you want the big money. You can definitely make some good money by working part time (notice the word "working" in there), but it will take longer.

You also will probably have to be willing to go through some personal development if you want the "big money," because most people just don't have the right mindset.

April I asked if you could give me one, just one, MLM company that promotes the above.

Sorry to bring it up again it's just that you didn't give me one in your next post :o

[April47]

Originally Posted by Steady

April I asked if you could give me one, just one, MLM company that promotes the above.

Sorry to bring it up again it's just that you didn't give me one in your next post :o

Oh I'm sorry... Eniva's one. They do promote the dream, but actually promote the product more. It's sort of like, you make the kind of money you want to make by sharing the product with people, and that's also how you recruit, by leading with the product.

For instance, my mom vowed she was never getting into another company after our previous company. Then I got into Eniva and she started trying Vibe. She really liked it and wanted to get it at wholesale price, so she started telling others about it. Now she's a full-blown distributor. She wouldn't be making any money at all if she hadn't talked to people about it though.

Lightyear Alliance is another... especially on our team. We say that you can make a lot of money with the company, but it does take hard work and dedication to get there.


(since I didn't answer your question the first time around, I gave you a bonus and gave you two... haha)

[PowerOfCards]

EVERY MLM company promotes the dream with the product/service. We get in this industry for two reasons. 1.) To use the product/service and 2.) To work for our dreams. Anyone who tells you different is foolish. Why do people start their own businesses? Because they think it will bring in more income and freedom. Same goes
for MLM, we get in for the dream and product/service.


So many MLMers try to hide the fact that they promote a dream. Well, I PROMOTE THE HECK OUT OF IT.

[sojustask]

Originally Posted by bizopca

It is precisely because of this bait and switch with respect to earnings claims that the FTC is going to extend its jurisdiction explicitly to network marketing.

That's great, I have no problems with that. I hope they eventually go after unscrupulous companies like Enron who invest employee retirement funds and then run off with them. Those guys barely got a slap on the hand and many people found themselves berift of a retirement they thought they were working towards.

There are a lot of crooked CEOs in this world and a lot of untrustworthy, scammy companies too.

Lady Mod

[sojustask]

Originally Posted by *****OfCards

EVERY MLM company promotes the dream with the product/service. We get in this industry for two reasons. 1.) To use the product/service and 2.) To work for our dreams. Anyone who tells you different is foolish. Why do people start their own businesses? Because they think it will bring in more income and freedom. Same goes
for MLM, we get in for the dream and product/service.


So many MLMers try to hide the fact that they promote a dream. Well, I PROMOTE THE HECK OUT OF IT.

It's always very interesting when factually, most people get involved in MLM to supplement current incomes in a job or replace one income so mom can stay home full time with the kids. They don't do it to make millions of dollars.

But those who are against MLM only take the gospel from those who either know little about the industry OR who failed because they "pursued a dream" without bothering to do the work. And when they post such unbalanced opinions as truth, they don't hurt the folks who failed, you can't hurt someone who has already failed in their own business or work ethics and wants to point the finger everywhere but themselves, they have already failed and chances are, until they mature they will fail at everything they touch. But these naysaysers do hurt the people who are supplementing their incomes, who weren't looking for huge paychecks or participating in big conferences or selling make it rich books or tapes. The Naysayers never take that into consideration, they have no guilt over that.

That amazes me how they can so easily disregard the honest people in their mission to protect the failures.

Just blows my mind how easily they jump on that bandwagon.

Lady Mod

[PowerOfCards]

LadyMod,

Perfectly said! As you know, negative people suck the life out of others. I had a rep sign in the other day and was JACKED out of his mind(he was a recruit from one of my frontline members). Anyway, before I had the chance to speak with him, one of his friends said something very negative about the industry as a whole. The new rep was having second thoughts, I simply called him up and didn't talk ONE thing about the business and spoke with him about how wealth starts in the mind. I told him that if he was going to let people get in the way of his goals then maybe he wasn't the right fit for my team. Needless to say the next hour of our conversation was absolutely amazing. He painted a clear picture in front of himself of what exactly he wanted down the line, be it with my company or not.

He's now excited out of his mind to start building his future!

[Fyst]

Originally Posted by April47

Fyst are you forgetting about the service MLMs? Most of those have very competitive prices, so where's the markup? How about wireless... people are saving hundreds of dollars on cell phones by ordering them through MLM websites instead of purchasing them through suppliers. How does that work into your theory?

I don't see how 'services' differ from 'products', in this context. Whether you sell a service or a product, the "ML" aspect works against the end user prices because of the kickbacks to many layers of middle men who add no value to the product/service. I don't go into specifics of each service, e.g. cell phone, life insurance, travel etc. as it is very difficult to compare apples to apples. IOW, you can tweak so many different little details in a cellphone plan that no two plans can be alike. And two people with different usage patterns can vastly affect how much money they eventually pay in the exact same plan. How can you proclaim "they saved hundreds of dollars going through the MLM plan!" due to none other than it was an MLM?

Originally Posted by April47

Recruiting (AKA "selling the opportunity") isn't a scam... companies whose comp plans are based SOLELY on recruiting (meaning you make little-to-no money on the sales of products or services) are scams. There's a big difference there. (I'm not going to argue with you for days on this, but if you'd like me to explain my opinion on the difference, I will)

I don't buy that as long as you throw a product into the scheme then it suddenly becomes legitimate. If a distributor makes his money SOLELY on product sales then it wouldn't be MLM, would it? The problem is always the "ML" aspect, somebody who got into the program earlier profits from the "contribution" of later participants. It is pointless to argue trivial differences in comp plans when the main attraction of all MLMs is recruitment, that you can make money from the effort of others below you. They call it "helping each others" or "leveraging efforts", but it is the same old thing.

Originally Posted by April47

and PLEASE tell me where you got the statistic that 99% of MLM participants lose money in MLMs. Because somehow I don't think that number is completely accurate, and I'd LOVE to know where you found it.

This 99% failure figure is all over the internet, but to quote one particular site, who used numbers supplied by some of the biggest MLM companies themselves:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/

In the document "The Myth of Income Opportunity in Multi-Level Marketing".

[Steady]

Originally Posted by *****OfCards

LadyMod,

Perfectly said! As you know, negative people suck the life out of others. I had a rep sign in the other day and was JACKED out of his mind(he was a recruit from one of my frontline members). Anyway, before I had the chance to speak with him, one of his friends said something very negative about the industry as a whole. The new rep was having second thoughts, I simply called him up and didn't talk ONE thing about the business and spoke with him about how wealth starts in the mind. I told him that if he was going to let people get in the way of his goals then maybe he wasn't the right fit for my team. Needless to say the next hour of our conversation was absolutely amazing. He painted a clear picture in front of himself of what exactly he wanted down the line, be it with my company or not.

He's now excited out of his mind to start building his future!

Oh I see so you brain washed him.

Friends giving advise is not a friend being NEGATIVE!! and that right there buddy is what helps destroy a good relationship between two friends.

The friend was giving the new rep advise because he was looking out for him..you was giving him advise because you want him in your scheme to earn money off him.

Greed

[PowerOfCards]

Steady,

No brainwashing at all! =0)

I actually told the gentleman that he may not be the best fit if he doesn't have belief in himself and if he was so easily going to let a broke minded person get the way the way his dreams.

It sounds to me like you're the broke minded brainwashed individual. Every successful person I have ever spoken with will agree that wealth starts in the mind.

Go pick up a copy of "Think & Grow Rich" by Napolean Hill.


If you're too broke to purchase it, feel free to shoot me your address and I'll buy you a copy---on me!


Have a great day!

[Patrick in California]

Originally Posted by Fyst

I don't buy that as long as you throw a product into the scheme then it suddenly becomes legitimate. If a distributor makes his money SOLELY on product sales then it wouldn't be MLM, would it? The problem is always the "ML" aspect, somebody who got into the program earlier profits from the "contribution" of later participants. It is pointless to argue trivial differences in comp plans when the main attraction of all MLMs is recruitment, that you can make money from the effort of others below you. They call it "helping each others" or "leveraging efforts", but it is the same old thing.

In a network marketing pay plan you ONLY are compensated on the EFFORTS of those in YOUR organization.

How does that DIFFER from a sales manager recieving bonuses & overrides on his sales team?

[PowerOfCards]

Pat,

Agreed.

[Patrick in California]

Originally Posted by Steady

Oh I see so you brain washed him.

Friends giving advise is not a friend being NEGATIVE!! and that right there buddy is what helps destroy a good relationship between two friends.

The friend was giving the new rep advise because he was looking out for him..you was giving him advise because you want him in your scheme to earn money off him.

Greed

Given the CRAP that most people have in their head, maybe BRAIN WASHING should be MANDATORY.

There's a reason it is called FREE advice.

Because that is ofter what it is WORTH.

And its funny to me how you can be so OPINIONATED & JUDGMENTAL without knowing the FACTS.

Like did the new rep ASK for his "friend's" ADVISE?

Or did the "friend" just decide to offer his negative OPINION?

Given that the person had already signed up, I suspect it was the later case.

And was this "friend's" opinion based on first hand knowledge OR on what they had heard?

Most often, I run into SHEEPLE who seem to suffer from the HERD mentality.

And they seem to hate it when someone trys breaks away from HERD.

Why is that?

[Fyst]

Originally Posted by Patrick in California

In a network marketing pay plan you ONLY are compensated on the EFFORTS of those in YOUR organization.

How does that DIFFER from a sales manager recieving bonuses & overrides on his sales team?

BIG difference. A sales manager with his sales team has a fixed number of people and only hire if the market demands it. An MLM scheme concentrates on recruitment with absolutely no regard of market demand, personnel qualifications and business expansion strategies. And most MLM's reward this uncontrolled recruitment either directly or indirectly.

Furthermore, most MLM's need the participants to pay to join, or require a certain minimum level of purchase periodically to keep his status active. This alone makes it a shady scam.

[Steady]

Originally Posted by *****OfCards

Steady,

No brainwashing at all! =0)

I actually told the gentleman that he may not be the best fit if he doesn't have belief in himself and if he was so easily going to let a broke minded person get the way the way his dreams.

It sounds to me like you're the broke minded brainwashed individual. Every successful person I have ever spoken with will agree that wealth starts in the mind.

Go pick up a copy of "Think & Grow Rich" by Napolean Hill.


If you're too broke to purchase it, feel free to shoot me your address and I'll buy you a copy---on me!


Have a great day!

Oh no I'm a broken minded person :D

Please, tell me more about myself :confused:

[PowerOfCards]

Steady,

I wouldn't do that. I'm not qualified to tell you anymore about yourself. All I can do is give my opinion from what I have read on this forum. Nor do I even feel the need to waste either of our time doing that. We both have our opinions, best to ya!

[Steady]

Well please tell me how I'm a broken minded person?

[Soapboxmom]

Originally Posted by Fyst

BIG difference. A sales manager with his sales team has a fixed number of people and only hire if the market demands it. An MLM scheme concentrates on recruitment with absolutely no regard of market demand, personnel qualifications and business expansion strategies. And most MLM's reward this uncontrolled recruitment either directly or indirectly.

Furthermore, most MLM's need the participants to pay to join, or require a certain minimum level of purchase periodically to keep his status active. This alone makes it a shady scam.

Bravo to you Fyst and Steady! Uncontrolled wild hiring of folks with, in many cases, zero qualifications is never good business practice, unless your only customers or the vast majority are the salespeople themsleves. Melaleuca has a whopping 3 customers for every 2 reps by their figures. Excel had 3 customers per rep. I could go on, but that clearly demonstrates the very reason most people in MLM lose money.......its all reps with no real customer base. So, only the reps at the top of a gargantuan pyramid make any money and the company profits because it has boatlods on autoship or the equivalent thereof.

If these companies had such great products and services they could compete in the real world or be sold by professional direct sellers that had zero incentive to recruit. Melaleuca for instance pays out 49-62% of a product's price just on the 7 level compensation plan alone. We still have all the other cost of the company proper doing business. It is no wonder the products are so high priced and we have a bunch of reps selling half the products to themselves.

Another troubling issue is customer/rep retention (they are often the same thing, mind you) Excel reps were dropping out at a rate of 80% a year. Melaleuca boasts a reorder rate of 95%, but don't get excited folks. That is the rate per month so yearly 50-60% of the purchasers drop out. There is constant churning at the bottom of the pyramid. Obviously, many of these companies aren't so attractive judging by those numbers.

So, folks looking at any MLM have a lot of serious issues to consider.

Soapboxmom