9-11 Conspiracy Theory With The Pentagon

[Trufilian]

Whoa, whoa, slow down there, Betamanmn. Calling Bushwacker a 'Traitor' is a bit of an overstatement, isn't it? I mean, he clearly said he's not from America. One of the worst things about America is that people are allowed to speak perhaps a bit too freely. Don't get me wrong, I'm an avid American, always will be, but if anybody can go around (wrongly) insulting people and such, that doesn't leave a very nice impression.
In response to Svenis' question, why Bush didn't plant weapons in Iraq, is relatively simple: You can't just smuggle those kinds of things across a border, no matter who you are. As for the second question, why Al Quaeda admitted; Bush is a friend of the bin Laden's, right? And if Osama is connected with Al Quaeda, there's nothing a little persuasion can't do.
I, personally, believe that it wasn't Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon, but a missle or smaller, Remote Aircraft of sorts. Again, there's the hole in the wall. 16ft, was it? But that's not the problem. It punched through three reinforced walls before vanishing. In pics taken around the innermost hole, there is very little debris, most of which is structural.
And if it was a Boeing (sp) 757 that hit the wall, then why is the damage so contained? The grass was only scorched around where the [mysterious] explosion was, but otherwise the lawn's unharmed. Even someone with basic knowledge of crashes can see this is wrong.
And what of the plane itself and the people aboard it? Who knows? It'll probably be on 'Unsolved Mysteries' one day.
Of course the government is capable of killing people, who isn't? Hell, any gov't could do it, if they wanted. No one's invincible.

[Bushwacker]

It just goes to shows that Americans like you are thick as pigs*** and totally brainwashed,people like you Bush lovers are laughing stocks of the world along with your dumb ass president. You didnt answer the question,its all fine and well to say there are scores of witnesses,but where is the FILM that it struck the pentagon,for I havent seen any and neither have you and until there is then there is a cover up,if there wasnt then there would have been footage,and you are talking bollocks about the fire Ive seen it for myself,ermm there wasnt any fire for 8 hours you numpty,where was the fire damage,there was no wreckage,no bodies,thats a fact,Im not going to say it again coz you are too stupid to believe.
I told you to look up Operation Northwood......governments kill there own all over the world and yours is no exception....how 58,000,000 people voted for a man who is a few sandwiches short of a picnic was so funny,here is a man who has turned a surplus into a deficit and is bleeding the middle classes dry to feed the rich,was a draft dodger and a backstabber.....here is a clue for you This man has made his money from oil,how do you think he invaded Iraq...not because of the lame excuse of WMD`s or Saddams reign of terror..Its none of his damn business to invade any country......I am damned angry that some of my countrymen have died in that place..they didnt want to be there but were forced,all because of that ******* Bush and his selfishness. The British public were and still are dead against the war along with so many other countries that have took part and lost their own,we were lied and tricked into,so you see its not just Bush who is responsible for all those avoidable deaths the blame also attaches itself to people like you and the 58,000,000 who voted him in... As I said before you really have no idea how utterly hated a figure Dubya is around the world,so dont go spouting to me how your government is whiter than white...so you keep sending those links,wake and up and smell the coffee you keep believing and we just keep on laughing at ya all,this man should be arrested by the war trials commision for mass genocide..



PS.....WHERE IS THE FILM.......TELL ME,COME ON
PPS. WHERE IS BIN LADEN THE MAN WHO COMMITED THE WTC ATROCITY.. SO CONVENIENTLY FORGOTTEN...BUSH LOVES BIN LADEN...BROTHERS IN ARMS,BEST BUDS,OH AND COMPANY SHAREHOLDERS IN THE SAME COMPANY.. ITS NO WONDER AMERICANS CANT GO ANYWHERE OVERSEAS WITHOUT THE FEAR OF BEING KILLED AND DRAGGED PEOPLE LIKE US DOWN AS WELL TO BEING FEARFUL....FIGHT YOUR OWN BLOODY BATTLES AND LEAVE US ALONE
PPPS. I am glad I am out of the force coz I would rather desert than fight your battles....now go and make your appointment with the opticians for your thick glasses to put on your thick head...maybe if you squint harder you may see the light....... AND IM NOT A TRAITOR,NOT AMERICAN AND VERY THANKFUL I AINT,IF I WAS THEN I WOULD SHOOT MYSELF..i THANK THESE PEOPLE WHO DIDNT VOTE BUSH ,UNFORTUNATELY COMMON SENSE WAS DEFEATED..R.I.P
SCOTTISH AND PROUD Over and out numbnuts

[Bushwacker]

Well said Trufilian,clearly there are some decent Americans around,and all with 20/20 vision....Bush`s ass must be sore after all 58,000,000 have kissed it..
Its a gas....ttfn ALLAN STEVENSON

[Bushwacker]

Betamanmn....Me a traitor....har har,for a start I aint american and you sure aint my brother,glad to see you have joined the 58,000,000 other dimwits who voted the universes most mentally challenged jerk in.

I am sure Ive seen President Bush somewhere before....yes thats it,it was thunderbirds,and he`s still got the string to prove it ,only thing who is operating him. Good Luck to another 4 years of misery to be heaped on the rest of the USA,and the world that is if he can utter anything intelligible at all.
Now zeromanmn I mean Betamanmn,get your head out of your ass and get a life....vote Kermit the frog for next President he`s an improvement.

Luckily Bush does not get another chance at office. He has done his maximum now. Good excuse, lose a few lives of good solid Americans who have no choice but to go into yet another Arab country, in order to go for the targets his warmongering Generals let the American Public believe are are a threat to America (Read the world). Irak was just the beginning, instigated by the FBI, who organised the cheap bargain holiday flights into the Twin towers. (YES YOU BASTARDS, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE) Iran has luckily got a lot of land inbetween the "Burning Bush in the desert" and themselves.

[Svenis]

HaHa nice answer "hard to get across the border" how many military planes fly into Iraq every day? Do you really think it would be that hard to plant WMD's if the government wanted to? As to that "freind of Bin Ladens" thing I'm sure you got that idea from Mr. Moores movie, and I can't really prove him assertions wrong becasue I don't know much about the subject. At least im being honest. But I would warn you to not take all of what Moore says in sride, he is notorious for bending facts and some things are outright lies. No proof exists that Bin Laden and Bush are "friends" and if I were you I wouldn't just assume this because a few documentaries say so. The Bush family and Bin Laden family are very wealthy, don't assume just because they happen to have stock in the same company that they are buddies. Why would Bin Laden want Bush to attack Afghanistan and Iraq? As for the 16ft hole, you can belive whatever you want, but every official and credible independent investigation ive seen says 50-75 feet wide before the collapse. I've also seen website that prove that conspiracy theorists crop photos in photoshop to make the hole seem smaller, and use photos that have smoke obstructing most of the damage. Websites like findtheboeing.com or whatever it is have no intrest in objectively looking for the truth, they just want you to think the Pentagon was hit by a missile.

As to you Bushwacker, again im not a Bush supporter, however I do not belive the US government had the means, motivation, or need to perpetrate 9/11. You ask where is the film of the plane hitting the Pentagon? Well maybe no one was filming the pentagon at the time, ever thought of that? I bet if no one had caught the planes hitting the twin towers you would say that those were missiles too. Still no reply about the HUNDREDS of witnesses. You just love to ignore that don't you. Or maybe you just cant read, and you're guessing what I type. You say Americans are afraid to travel overseas, but this is bullshi* What do you know you're not an American. I travel overseas several times a year, and while there is some anti-American sentiment im not "afraid." Most people don't hate Americans, they hate Bush, and if they do hate Americans, then they are arrogant and xenophobic. Americans arent thay different from everyone else.

"lf,ermm there wasnt any fire for 8 hours you numpty,whve seen it for myseere was the fire damage,there was no wreckage,no bodies,thats a fact,Im not going to say it again coz you are too stupid to believe."

First of all you write like an 8 year old, I can barely understand you. Don't belive the 8 hour fire, ok go back and watch CNN tapes from 9/11. It was a huge fire, didn't you see the pictures I posted? I have no idea where you got the idea that the fire went out so quickly, so I can't discredit your source. You say you have seen it for yourself, but where you there on 9/11? No! you just have "seen it" on one sided conspiracy websites. It saddens me to think that you wont even consider that this wasn't a conspiracy. You're very arrogant and single minded, kind of like Bush.

"Irak was just the beginning, instigated by the FBI" HaHa get out of this thread you don't know what you're talking about. You can't even spell the country correctly, so im guessing you're German. The FBI had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, they investigate domestic affairs, if anything it was the CIA. That shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Trufilian]

Originally Posted by Svenis

As for the 16ft hole, you can belive whatever you want, but every official and credible independent investigation ive seen says 50-75 feet wide before the collapse.

If the hole was 16ft after the collapse, then... Well, to interrupt myself, how is it that after who knows how much concrete or whatever falls onto a round hole, it manages to stay perfectly round?

[Bushwacker]

Again Svenis you avoid the truth,I asked you where the film was,and yes ther is none,with all the cctv,and there must be more that one camera with at least a shot of the so called"plane" approaching or hitting, the footage,also from the business`s cctv nearby,nope,not one bit of footage,you cannot say,can you,that a plane hit the building with no footage to back your claim up,I believe what I see and I saw a 16ft hole just before the building collapsed,my eyes dont decieve me. Why do you think millions of people,Americans and global,believe that this is a cover up,I will tell you there are too many innaccuracies and connections to a conspiracy to dispel the doubters. Also I would believe Micheal Moore over Bush as I think its a case of the truth hurts,you cannot dig up fact,documentary evidence and links from nowhere,if you did then Micheal Moore would be bigger than Spielberg. I am not a traitor nor am I 8 years old,I just say what I see,so you just keep throwing your toys out of your playpen and leave the argument to the men and women,so you go off now as it must be time for your diaper change.. Kermit for President

[Captain Midnight]

Originally Posted by Bushwacker

Again Svenis you avoid the truth,I asked you where the film was,and yes ther is none,with all the cctv,and there must be more that one camera with at least a shot of the so called"plane" approaching or hitting, the footage,also from the business`s cctv nearby,nope,not one bit of footage,you cannot say,can you,that a plane hit the building with no footage to back your claim up,I believe what I see and I saw a 16ft hole just before the building collapsed,my eyes dont decieve me. Why do you think millions of people,Americans and global,believe that this is a cover up,I will tell you there are too many innaccuracies and connections to a conspiracy to dispel the doubters. Also I would believe Micheal Moore over Bush as I think its a case of the truth hurts,you cannot dig up fact,documentary evidence and links from nowhere,if you did then Micheal Moore would be bigger than Spielberg. I am not a traitor nor am I 8 years old,I just say what I see,so you just keep throwing your toys out of your playpen and leave the argument to the men and women,so you go off now as it must be time for your diaper change.. Kermit for President

Your'e not exaclty edearing yourself to your new country, Whacker, lad! Watch yerself around the pubs when you've had a wee pint or two, or they will be sinkin' the boot! Ive no doubt you'll put up a fair fight, but will the bastards give you a fair fight, you have to ask yourself???

[Canadad]

I'm no expert BUT aren't the "engines" in the FEMA photographs awfully small to be pushing a 757? It could be some sort of scaling problem with the photographs but it seems like the wreakage is intact but barely makes it to knee-high on the adjoning Firemen.

Just a thought.

[Svenis]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/...e_evidence.htm

http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/pent...nsions_est.htm

http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/

More websites showing evidence that a plane did hit the pentagon, including debris photos and structural analysis.

Why are you so sure that there should be another camera showing the impact of the plane at the pentagon? Should there be a film crew covering the Pentagon at all times? Other then that I can't really understand your rantings, you really need to go back and take a writing class. Still no explanation for the hundreds of witnesses that saw the plane hit. The only "evidence" you really have is the "16 ft. hole" and the "lack of debris" it's a pretty weak case and in no way proof that a missile hit the Pentagon. Again, why would the government even attack the Pentagon? Why, when they could just attack the twin towers, would they need to attack one of the most vital buildings in military infrastructure? How could it have been a missile, and yet out of the hundreds of witnesses from the road none of them support that theory in the slightest. Again the only explanation for this would ave to be government mind control of everyone within miles of the Pentagon. How do you explain the missing plane, without saying the all of United Airlines is involved in the conspiracy? What about the light poles that were knocked over by the wings, and the black box that was recoverer?

[Bushwacker]

the lack of debris and the 16 ft hole seem very solid evidence to meSvenis you really are boring me now....Do you know what CCTV means..duh! you dont need TV and film crews there,just get the recordings off the security cameras that were in the path of the "aircraft" coming in,surely there would be some film after all it is the Pentagon...the lack of debris and 16ft hole seem pretty strong evidence to me.. I havent seen the "black box",if they have it then what was on it. Hundreds of witnesses...do me a favour,if there were what were they doing watching the thing anyway...dont they work in Washington at all...wish I had the time to stand and wait for a plane to crash,you are the one who aint makin no sense,you keep drivelling on about wreckage this,black box that,and how Bush can do such a thing crap,that you are missing the point by miles,they did it in the sixties and it failed,they are capable of anything,any government is,so dont give me this bollocks that Bush is a saint,whiter than white,coz he`s not,he is a murderer of innocent people,and you can add the Italian journalist deliberately shot dead by American troops recently to the list,your man is a worldwide laughing stock,a real dimwit,just like yourself....tell me how did you get out of your playpen?

[teeanto]

Hi everyone,

I think I will take a more neutral role, be like CSI and let the evidence, tell me the story. Based on Svenis's link to those sites, and the info contained, I would have to say that;

1. the 16ft hole can be justified by assuming that the wings didn't manage to penetrate the concrete wall, but the front nose did, due to the initial impact, that makes sense to me.

2. that wheel with the 8 holes is also good evidence, although one could argue that it was a CLOSE UP picture of a wheel from the same plane and could have been taken from another crash, there doesn't seem to be background evidence, to show that it was this particular crash.

Based on Bushwackers evidence;

1. where is the cctv footage. If you are honest Sveni's, that footage is VITAL, and comments like we cannot show it for national security purpose's are b***s**t. That evidence, will stop the whole conspiracy itself.

2. there was a car, right by the crash site that was burnt, yet its frame was still intact and it was less than 50ft away maybe even 20ft. Given that the plane is over 100ft long, and on impact there was basically nothing left of it, due to the amounts of fuel and the obvious explosion, the position and condition of that car, is DODGY.

I make it 2-2 so far.

tee

[teeanto]

I think you are all throwing in all your fire *****, and making your posts too long, therefore the other doesn't read it all and hence Svenis is constantly saying, "YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T READ MY PREVIOUS POST" all the time.

If you keep them nice, short and sweet and discuss one issue at a time, you are more likely to finish up with the same oppinion, provided you both keep an open mind ofcourse.(just a thought)

tee

[Svenis]

Its funny there is one security camera view of the plane hitting the Pentagon, but because it shoots frames so slowly, like most security cameras, it did not catch an actual frame of the plane before it hit. This isn't really suprising given that the plane was moving so fast. Otherwise, I don't see why you belive that there should have been more cameras pointed at that spot. For me the hundreds of wittnesses are just as good as a camera. Look at the path of the plane, it passed over one of the busiest hyways in the country. If you look at some of the witnesses narratives on the BBC news sites some of them aren't even American, and were traveling through Washington.

If you looked at the websites they have tons of plane debris pictures from the Pentagon, I don't understand where you get the idea that there is no debris, the plane was devastated by the impact and none of the fueselage was really left intact. For me this isn't suprising, considering the plane crashed into a reinforced concrete wall. When conspiracy theory websites show photos of other plane crashes that still have recognizable pieces of the fueselage intact its really incomparable because those planes did not strike a rreinforced concrete wall, they struck the ground, at a more gentle angle.

And what about the lightpoles knocked over by the wings? How do you explain those?

Look at the websites, it gives a clear explanation for the hole and why the wings didn't penetrate the wall. The wings didn't penetrate, but they left clear and obvious evidence of hitting right on the wall, shown by pictures.

You ask why the witnesses were watching the plane anyway? Well maybe they looked up when they heard a massive jet flying directly overhead, its pretty loud. "they all work in Washington" Here we go the only way you could explain the witnesses would be that the government somehow controls hundreds of them.

You say you haven't seen the black box. Well they don't "release" the black box in any plane crash.

"he Italian journalist deliberately shot dead by American troops recently to the list"

Yes now Bush is personally ordering the shooting of all journalists by US troops. She probably found out the truth and they had to shoot her. Or it was a mistake, and the US troops shot at the car because it ignored orders to stop. You make the call.


In reply to Teetanto, I guess that it could have been a close up of another crash site, but it was a firefighter who took the photo, and it comes with a narrative. Also the debris around the wheel look consistent with the rest of the crash site. You cant really argue with the planted evidence argument, other then to say that you would have to control hundreds of firefighters, reporters, citizens, and government employees who say the plane debris and the plane impact. It makes total sense to me that an alluminum plane hitting a concrete building would be blown up into very small pieces, but you don't really have a comparable crash. As for the car, it looked pretty buned out to me, I doubt the fireball from the explosion would have been hot enough to "melt" the car.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm

Heres a site with some witnesses.

[mikeha]

Originally Posted by Trufilian

If the hole was 16ft after the collapse, then... Well, to interrupt myself, how is it that after who knows how much concrete or whatever falls onto a round hole, it manages to stay perfectly round?

It wasn't. It was 16 ft before the collapse. There is news footage from the CNN correspondant at the Pentagon, shortly after the "plane" hit the Pentagon. He reported that there was absolutely no evidence that a plane hit the Pentagon, that there was only a small hole, and that 45 minutes later the collapse occurred.

I heard this clip on Alex Jones's radio show, he played it a couple of weeks ago. I can put together an mp3 of that clip if anyone's interested.

[Betamanmn]

Originally Posted by Artemist

Luckily Bush does not get another chance at office. He has done his maximum now. Good excuse, lose a few lives of good solid Americans who have no choice but to go into yet another Arab country, in order to go for the targets his warmongering Generals let the American Public believe are are a threat to America (Read the world). Irak was just the beginning, instigated by the FBI, who organised the cheap bargain holiday flights into the Twin towers. (YES YOU BASTARDS, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE) Iran has luckily got a lot of land inbetween the "Burning Bush in the desert" and themselves.

The true people I wish death on are those who blame bush for 911 and who blame america for the Islamic terrorists. IT is these people who are a danger to the world and serve no purpose but to spread fear and misinformation.

[Trufilian]

Originally Posted by mikeha

It wasn't. It was 16 ft before the collapse. There is news footage from the CNN correspondant at the Pentagon, shortly after the "plane" hit the Pentagon. He reported that there was absolutely no evidence that a plane hit the Pentagon, that there was only a small hole, and that 45 minutes later the collapse occurred.

That's what I thought, thanks for clearing that up. ^_^ And yeah, it'd be good to have proof for everyone, even if it's just an MP3.

Originally Posted by Svenis

Its funny there is one security camera view of the plane hitting the Pentagon, but because it shoots frames so slowly, like most security cameras, it did not catch an actual frame of the plane before it hit.

Tell me, did you actually see that Shockwave clip in the very first post? One frame caught something which was definately too small to be a plane. Here's that link again, in case you missed it. Watch the damned thing at least once.

Originally Posted by Svenis

And what about the lightpoles knocked over by the wings? How do you explain those?

One word for you: Sonicboom. Or wake, or whatever you want to call it.

Originally Posted by teeanto

the 16ft hole can be justified by assuming that the wings didn't manage to penetrate the concrete wall, but the front nose did, due to the initial impact, that makes sense to me.

But that wouldn't work, since the whole body of whatever it was went through three reinforced walls, not just the nose through the outer wall. I mean, if the nose flew off and cleared solid steel and concrete, I'd be most amazed.

Originally Posted by Betamanmn

IT is these people who are a danger to the world and serve no purpose but to spread fear and misinformation.

*Rolls eyes* There you go again, thinking you're all that (Or at least that you're better than a certain group). Isn't that a little thing called discrimination? Tell me. If one of your friends said something along the lines of, "Y'know, Bush is at fault for 9/11," would you say, "Die!!!11ONE"? Honestly, you're a bit to quick and discriminatory (sp) for your own good. It's gonna get you in trouble one day, believe me.

Originally Posted by Svenis

Why are you so sure that there should be another camera showing the impact of the plane at the pentagon? Should there be a film crew covering the Pentagon at all times?

You didn't watch the Presentation, did you? *Sighs* There were three other buildings, with a total of four cameras trained on the Pentagon: One at the Sheraton Hotel, one at a gas station only for Dept. of Defense personell, and two at the Dept. of Transportation. At the hotel, the staff watched the video over and over again, but the FBI came and confiscated it. The DoT's videos were never released, and the gas station's was never viewed. In fact, the FBI responded so quickly to the explosion, gathering the tapes and all, it'd be a wonder if they didn't have some influence in this.

[Svenis]

Yeah yeah I have seen the clip many times, persuasive, but not proof. I especially love the quotes that are taken completely out of context. They don't even post the full quote. I also love how the clip cant seem to decide if it was a 12 person commuter jet or a missile that hit the Pentagon.

My favorite out of context quote

quote from video "It sounded like a missile"

Full clip: "Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring. It sounded like a missile… Buried in debris and covered with airplane fuel, he was briefly listed by authorities as missing...There were three loud thump, thump, thumps. You could hear the metal cracking and crinkling, and the explosion."

Wow that quote sure was taken out of context and distorted, it almost makes you question the credibility of the video.

"I was right underneath the plane," said Kirk Milburn, a construction supervisor for Atlantis Co., who was on the Arlington National Cemetery exit of Interstate 395 when he said he saw the plane heading for the Pentagon. "I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles," said Milburn. "It was like a WHOOOSH whoosh, then there was fire and smoke, then I heard a second explosion."

The full quote, again he clearly says that he saw the aiplane, another misleading quote from the video.

Almost all the quotes from the clip are taken so far out of context its laughable.


As for the a sonic boom or wake casuing those lightpoles to buckle over like that, its immpossible. I actually know something about sonic booms, and the change in pressure casued by the boom is about 5 pounds per square foot. AT most the MIGHT knock out some glass, but never a lightpole, don't belive me? Look it up, you might learn something.

I wouldn't belive a word in that video, its obviously trying to mislead and manipulate you.

[Captain Midnight]

Originally Posted by Trufilian

That's what I thought, thanks for clearing that up. ^_^ And yeah, it'd be good to have proof for everyone, even if it's just an MP3.



Tell me, did you actually see that Shockwave clip in the very first post? One frame caught something which was definately too small to be a plane. Here's that link again, in case you missed it. Watch the damned thing at least once.



One word for you: Sonicboom. Or wake, or whatever you want to call it.



But that wouldn't work, since the whole body of whatever it was went through three reinforced walls, not just the nose through the outer wall. I mean, if the nose flew off and cleared solid steel and concrete, I'd be most amazed.



*Rolls eyes* There you go again, thinking you're all that (Or at least that you're better than a certain group). Isn't that a little thing called discrimination? Tell me. If one of your friends said something along the lines of, "Y'know, Bush is at fault for 9/11," would you say, "Die!!!11ONE"? Honestly, you're a bit to quick and discriminatory (sp) for your own good. It's gonna get you in trouble one day, believe me.


You didn't watch the Presentation, did you? *Sighs* There were three other buildings, with a total of four cameras trained on the Pentagon: One at the Sheraton Hotel, one at a gas station only for Dept. of Defense personell, and two at the Dept. of Transportation. At the hotel, the staff watched the video over and over again, but the FBI came and confiscated it. The DoT's videos were nenver released, and the gas station's was never viewed. In fact, the FBI responded so quickly to the explosion, gathering the tapes and all, it'd be a wonder if they didn't have some influence in this.

Very, Very compelling re-the video. (Albeit a bit melodramatic) Two things, If I may, and I'm not sure it has been brought up before. (I just can't read this thread with all of the insults etc. esp. the mad Scot.)
The 757 aircraft reported to have crashed into the Pentagon is 155ft 3 in long. Surely, a craft that long would have filled more than one frame on a surveilance video? I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but I would be happy to hear from anyone who could explain how any aircraft could pass through so many parts of a structure such as the Pentagon and then, apparently, explode upwards and forwards as depicted in the video. The explosion seems to me to be very much like the way a scud missile was designed to explode as we all saw during the Gulf War in the 90's.
We saw the scuds flying low and level just before impact and then a brief delay before the explosion.
(the explosions at the WTC were centralised around the Aircraft (A passive explosion, fuel) and forward (through momentum). I'm not putting an argument forward, here, (for anyone who wants to shoot me down) just looking for comments, ok? But I tell you what, if it was a missile that hit the Pentagon, the U. S. Govt. would never admit it, and it would go a long way in explaining subsequent world events in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[teeanto]

Hi Captain Midnight,

Thats a very good point that you put across there, about the cameras not being able to view the entire plane, even at those speeds. And how can the FBI, supposedly be allowed to go around and confiscate tapes (thats extremely dodgy). As I have said before, we have allowed people to get too *****ful, and we are suffering as a result.

tee

[Bushwacker]

What escapes me through all this conspiracy theory is that how that aircraft managed to penetrate so far into the pentagon and cause so little damage,I mean I cant see much damage for an aircraft this size and with 8000 gallons of fuel on board made,comparing the explosion to the size of aircraft and amount of fuel is like striking a match in a cave it just doesnt add up.
As a non American looking in I have taken everything I have saw whether it be media or Internet and have summized thus far,they had to elect Bush this term,the whole operation would collapse,the election was a foregone conclusion way before any vote was cast..florida once again being rigged to give Bush the state,and in Ohio Kerry votes being neutralized,machines breaking down,more voters than population in some places.
58,000 missing voters in Florida,felon,same name as a felon,same birthday as a felon being wiped off and barred from voting thanks to a certain Katherine Harris,now congresswoman Harris,Bush couldnt lose and was never going to.
Kerry was cheated and so was honest Americans who wanted change to reverse the damage that had been done in the Bush regime,alas this was never going to be..the atrocities caused by this government will come to light eventually probably long after we are gone I`m sure.. I have had a long interest American politics since I married my American wife,who thankfully is a democrat,and since I am soon to be residing in the land of the free..sigh!! I want to know the workings and ways of this government and frankly it doesnt look good,people here often talk about the conspiracy because it is so blatantly obvious and no amount of links or similar can change our minds,people can be bought ,evidence can be tampered with,but the truth never lies,strong words but I only go on what I have seen and heard...People of America,you have been duped,God help us all.. Bush and his cronies are laughing at you all like they were laughing on 9/11,the devil and his disciples walk upon this earth and they are hell bent on global domination. you gotta admire their cheek,but the perfect crime wasnt committed,for it is riddled with flaws,all bar 58,000,000 can see that,for all you 58 million....get well soon.

[Svenis]

You're crazy Bushwacker I couldn't tell if your last post was a joke, or what you actually think. Bush and cronies bent on global domination - thats laughable. The fact is Bush was elected whether you like it or not, but I guess you can come up with a conspiracy theory for everything. You probably get all your facts and information from video clips like the one posted in this thread. I can't belive no one had discredited that video yet, the misleading quotes alone are enough to wipe out all of its credibility. I hope you read those full quotes Bushwacker; wouldn't you agree that that video was distorting the quotes to make it sound like the people saw or heard a missile, when in fact not one person saw a missile hit the Pentagon? Why do you think American democrats buy the conspiracy theory? They don't. For example I am a democrat, and I don't belive one word of any of the theories. I would say about 99.9% of all democrats belive that Islamic militants attacked the US on 9/11, because they are sensible and don't fall for some stupid Internet video that distorts facts and lies. I didn't vote for Bush, I voted for Kerry but I know the election was legitimate. Kerry just wasn't a very good candidate, he looked like a walking zombie, voted for the war to begin with, so he was branded a "flip-flopper" and he refused to take a hard stand on any issue. Bush isn't some demonic being bend on global domination, in my opinion he is just a bad president who made a HUGE screwup in Iraq. Of course this is too hard to belive for you - because Bush is from Hell and he personally carried out 9/11 just for oil. You really need to learn how to be more skeptical of conspiracy theories.

[trueevilgenius]

i just want to address one small issue and dont really want to take any sides.
i believe it was svenis who said to bushwhacker "why the pentagon?" if this really is a mass government conspiracy there would probably be some paper evidence somewhere. paperwork of that nature would most likely be kept in a very secure location such as the pentagon. if this were the case one wouldnt want to use a large object such as a passenger jet. this could go terribly wrong and destroy many other vital parts of the pentagon. but with a small guided missle you could practically take out an individual room. perhaps one that had some items that you didnt want anyone else to see. maybe im stretching it a bit here but hey its all for fun.

[Bushwacker]

Are you a comedian Svenis,coz you sure split my sides,I mean I give up,you believe what you want and I will do the same,you are not a genuis and you sure cant convince millions of people with your bull**** claptrap,but I will leave a few questions and perhaps you can try and convince me with some intelligible answers...1,How can an airliner create such a perfect round hole on impact,..2 where was the wreckage and lawn damage,I mean where was the wings etc..which would have sheared off on impact seeing that the aircraft has a 124ft span..even taking into account that the gap where the roof fell in was only 65ft...surely some would have been left..3, where is the fire damage from over 5000 gallons of fuel,which would have burned for DAYS...4,How does an airliner penetrate thru 3 rings of reinforced steel and concrete,bearing in mind that the pentagon is built to withstand such acts..5,Are the witnesses who stated that they heard a "whoosh" and swear it was a cruise missile,to be discredited as liars..6,Why has the FBI still got hold of and never to be seen footage of the flight path and what exactly hit it,from local businesses who had cameras pointing in the collision path...7,Why did the towers fall in perfect pancake fashion,when these buildings had been designed to cushion a jumbo jets impact,let alone a 757..8,Why did witness accounts tell of bombs going off at the base of the towers...9,Why did it take so long for the airforce to scramble fighter jets..10,The most disturbing image in my mind,why the hell was Dubya sitting like a class dunce for 10 minutes in a Florida classroom knowing his country was under attack,any committed person would have been out and gone at the first utterance of attacks...The sad thing is Svenis is that you cannot answer these questions and you never will,I will never know,they can never be proved that is why people utter the words "conspiracy theory",because they are not convinced of what they have seen is the truth,believe me if I was proved wrong then I would hold my hands up,but sadly in this case I wont.
Also when you live in another country Svenis and see it from the outside and see the mess that has been created in this world from that fateful day,the hostility that is borne out of it towards the United States,believe me your nation is the most hated country on this planet,you dont see what I see,obviously,but you really have become to big for your own good,nobody can justify a war like the US can,why dont they just give it a rest and stop meddling in other countries politics and affairs...as I said ..Global domination,they just cant help themselves,especially if it happens to be rich in oil.. If you cant answer these questions,dont worry,I mean they are a bit difficult for an 8 year old..

[haha]

A clip because by its nature can be easily manipulated so for me it's not anything reliable.

I think rather that people are more interested in debates on opinions than on facts. I even wonder if they really want to learn the truths or if they prefer to stay in fuzziness.

For me it's more interesting to get some facts from someone much more knowledgeable like Stanley Hilton interviewed retranscripted here
http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm

exerpt only:

SH: Yeah, we are suing Bush, Condoleezza Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Mueller, etc. for complicity in personally not only allowing 9/11 to happen but in ordering it. The hijackers we retained and we had a witness who is married to one of them. The hijackers were U.S. undercover agents. They were double agents, paid by the FBI and the CIA to spy on Arab groups in this country. They were controlled. Their landlord was an FBI informant in San Diego and other places. And this was a direct, covert operation ordered, personally ordered by George W. Bush. Personally ordered. We have incriminating evidence, documents as well as witnesses, to this effect. It's not just incompetence - in spite of the fact that he is incompetent. The fact is he personally ordered this, knew about it. He, at one point, there were rehearsals of this. The reason why he appeared to be uninterested and nonchalant on September 11th - when those videos showed that Andrew Card whispered in his ear the [garbled] words about this he listened to kids reading the pet goat story, is that he thought this was another rehearsal. These people had dress-rehearsed this many times. He had seen simulated videos of this. In fact, he even made a Freudian slip a few months later at a California press conference when he said he had, quote, "seen on television the first plane attack the first tower." And that could not be possible because there was no video. What it was was the simulated video that he had gone over. So this was a personally government-ordered thing. We are suing them under the Constitution for violating Americans' rights, as well as under the federal Fraudulent Claims Act, for presenting a fraudulent claim to Congress to justify the bogus Iraq boondoggle war, for political gains. And also, under the RICO statute, under the Racketeering Corrupt Organization Act, for being a corrupt entity. And I've been harassed personally by the chief judge of the federal court who is instructing me personally to drop this suit, threatened to kick me off the court, after 30 years on the court. I've been harassed by the FBI. My staff has been harassed and threatened. My office has been broken into and this is the kind of government we are dealing with.

[Svenis]

How can an airliner create such a perfect round hole on impact?

It didn't, the shape of the damage in the outer ring was rectangular, I guess you are referring to the hole in the third ring which apparently was not caused by the fuselage but the landing gear. If you would have read any of the websites that I have posted, you would see the explanation. But you don't want to hear it.

http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/ Very good picture of original damage with very little smoke obstructing the view. You can clearly see the crash site.

"where was the wreckage and lawn damage,I mean where was the wings etc..which would have sheared off on impact seeing that the aircraft has a 124ft span..even taking into account that the gap where the roof fell in was only 65ft...surely some would have been left.."[/b]

You still think theres no wreckage? Well there was, look at the websites. There are no good pictures of the lawn up close, so I don't know if there was lawn damage. Of course the conspiracy theory websites will put up pics that make it look unscathed.

"where is the fire damage from over 5000 gallons of fuel,which would have burned for DAYS..."

Uh look at the pictures of the Pentagon after the crash, it looks like there is extensive fire damage to me. I don't know where you got this outrageous 8 minute fire theory or whatever it was but I personably remember the fire burning for over a day. And I double checked.

"How does an airliner penetrate thru 3 rings of reinforced steel and concrete,bearing in mind that the pentagon is built to withstand such acts.."

Actually scientists at Perdue university made a computer model showing exactly how it happened. You want scientific evidence? There it is. I'm begging you to look at some of this evidence im posting. But im sure the government controls Perdue too.

"Are the witnesses who stated that they heard a "whoosh" and swear it was a cruise missile,to be discredited as liars.."

No, the websites that post these quotes in a misleading fashion are liars.

"I was right underneath the plane," said Kirk Milburn, a construction supervisor for Atlantis Co., who was on the Arlington National Cemetery exit of Interstate 395 when he said he saw the plane heading for the Pentagon. "I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles," said Milburn. "It was like a WHOOOSH whoosh, then there was fire and smoke, then I heard a second explosion."'

Hey look the guy from your whoosh quote said he saw the plane. Go back and read my last post numbskull. Pay attention Bushwacker, see how the full quote paints a different picture then how the video clip portrayed?

"Why has the FBI still got hold of and never to be seen footage of the flight path and what exactly hit it,from local businesses who had cameras pointing in the collision path..."

I don't know but the owner of the hotel with the camera said he saw a plane hit, so I doubt the videos (if they exist) show a missile hitting. The FBI took the videos to investigate the crash, maybe they just havent released them.

"Why did the towers fall in perfect pancake fashion,when these buildings had been designed to cushion a jumbo jets impact,let alone a 757.."

The twin towers didn't fall in a perfect pancake fashion. Go look back on the videos, the top section starts to bank over and fall.

"Why did witness accounts tell of bombs going off at the base of the towers..."

If there were bombs at the base of the towers then they wouldn't have started collapsing from the top.

"Why did it take so long for the airforce to scramble fighter jets.."

It was a confusing situation, plus the US only has about 12 fighter jets on alert.

"The most disturbing image in my mind,why the hell was Dubya sitting like a class dunce for 10 minutes in a Florida classroom knowing his country was under attack,any committed person would have been out and gone at the first utterance of attacks"

Let me ask YOU a question. Why would he sit there like a dunce for 10 minutes if he knew the attacks were going to happen? Wouldn't he want to spring into action and appear to be in control and ready for action? I think everyone was bewildered and didn't really know what to do.

All you have is a bunch of questions, no proof. Unlike you, I have given tons of evidence and links to support my arguments; you on the other hand have just recited what you heard from websites or flash movies as if it was convincing proof. Did you read those full versions of the quotes that I posted? Kind of discredits that whole video, yet you still continue to belive that there were people who saw a missile. If we were in a debate contest I have no doubt that I would win. I give sources of my information, you don't. All you do is recite the same questions over and over. I think if the government wanted to justify war with a terror attack: #1 they would have done something much easier to pull off and easier to cover up like a dirty bomb explosion. #2 They wouldn't claim all the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia when they wanted to invade Iraq. Why not just say they were Iraqis that had something to do with Hussein.

Another question: If the government was controlling the planes that flew into the twin towers, why is it so hard to belive that the government was controlling the plane that flew into the Pentagon? Why does it have to be a missile?

"if I was proved wrong then I would hold my hands up,but sadly in this case I wont." As would I, but sadly this probably wont happen. I don't know what you want as "proof" of a plane hitting the Pentagon, but whatever it is conspiracy theorists will probably find some way of questioning it. Like all conspiracy theories this one will die down as people realize that it is all speculation with no truth. Too many things debunk the conspiracy theory; Lightpoles, witnesses, plane debris, plane flew over one the the busiest roads in the country.

[Captain Midnight]

O.K, so a 757 flying low enough to take out light poles 600 feet from impact did not collide with outbuildings within 60 feet of the external walls of the Pentagon? I'd like to see some trajectory estimations of the final moments of the ‘apparent’ aircraft crash!
How could it be explained that an aircraft destroyed 5 light poles without causing the aircraft to slew or deviate from its course. Sufficient damage to the wings, engine(s) or fuselage caused by such impacts would surely have made the aircraft uncontrollable (to some extent) some time before impact. A small amount of deflection in the aircrafts’ direction (or attitude) would have caused it to either lose altitude (all 30 feet of it) and impact with the ground well before the building (nose or tail) or ‘dip a wing’ into a nearby building or the ground, causing the aircraft to ‘slew’ into the Pentagon. It would appear that none of these events happened and the aircraft slammed, head first, through 5 light poles and 3 sections of the pentagon a few feet from the ground, travelling so fast that the engines and 99.9% of the aircraft, vaporized, and yet the only damage (aparently) caused by the wings (which contain most of the aircrafts’ fuel, btw) was to create black marks on the outer walls of the building.(and where did the engines hit?)
I'm still not 100% convinced, even he most experieced pilot would have had difficulty controlling an aircraft, as it would seem, exceding its maximum Vne (due to the fact that it could not be filmed) so low to the ground after hitting so many objects. It should have crashed before hitting the Pentagon!

[Captain Midnight]

Has it occured to anyone that, whilst the attacks on the WTC were being played out, another enemy of the U.S. was testing a new military weapon??
If they were, it could be considered a success!
http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/...EN&noeu_id=106
This is just one of the many types of missiles capable of the speeds and destructive force that could have impacted on the Pentagon and caused the damage seen in the photos and videos.

[haha]

Originally Posted by Captain Midnight

Has it occured to anyone that, whilst the attacks on the WTC were being played out, another enemy of the U.S. was testing a new military weapon??
If they were, it could be considered a success!
http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/...EN&noeu_id=106
This is just one of the many types of missiles capable of the speeds and destructive force that could have impacted on the Pentagon and caused the damage seen in the photos and videos.

Why do we need to elaborate pure hypothesis ? There hundreds of millions of possibilities then ! Once again there are some FACTS that are available from REPUTABLE KNOWLEDGEABLE INSIDER OF GOV there is no need to fabricate FICTIONS :)

http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm

[Trufilian]

Originally Posted by Svenis

Let me ask YOU a question. Why would he sit there like a dunce for 10 minutes if he knew the attacks were going to happen? Wouldn't he want to spring into action and appear to be in control and ready for action? I think everyone was bewildered and didn't really know what to do.

It's called good acting. Hell, if I were in the same situation, I wouldn't want it to look like I knew what was going on. It'd raise questions, if not immediately.

Note: I'm not saying that I think Bush is at the head of it, or even knew, I'm just pointing a possibility out.

[Svenis]

How could it be explained that an aircraft destroyed 5 light poles without causing the aircraft to slew or deviate from its course.

Easy, at that speed the plane had so much kenetic ****** that the lightpoles were more like toothpicks. Actually the Perdue simulation goes into detail explaining exactly how this happend. How would a missile have knocked over these lightpoles? And dont say turbulance or wake becasue thats BS.

"Has it occured to anyone that, whilst the attacks on the WTC were being played out, another enemy of the U.S. was testing a new military weapon??"

So what, new missile systems are constanly being developed.

"Once again there are some FACTS that are available from REPUTABLE KNOWLEDGEABLE INSIDER OF GOV there is no need to fabricate FICTIONS"

It's funny this nutcase claims to have facts, but I dont see any. Where is this proof that he has? I would love to hear it, but so far nothing, only allegations. He was also busted for putting victims families names on the lawsuit who never agreed to be part of it. Insider my ass, this guy worked for Dole for a few years, its not like he was in the CIA when the attacks happend. I dont even think he was employed by the government. He probably just wants to get publicity and then write a book. This guy has a horrible reputation - read up instead of looking at that one damn website. I worked for a senator 5 years ago too, does that make me an "insider"

[haha]

Originally Posted by haha

Why do we need to elaborate pure hypothesis ? There hundreds of millions of possibilities then ! Once again there are some FACTS that are available from REPUTABLE KNOWLEDGEABLE INSIDER OF GOV there is no need to fabricate FICTIONS :)

http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm

I think CIA psy ops really works:
"Let's send them off on some crazy wild goose chase which is going to involve them in extremely detailed microanalysis and discussion of things that don't matter."

When will people realise this ? Instead of focusing on such unessential details why not focus on the essential ones instead ?

[Captain Midnight]

Originally Posted by haha

I think CIA psy ops really works:
"Let's send them off on some crazy wild goose chase which is going to involve them in extremely detailed microanalysis and discussion of things that don't matter."

When will people realise this ? Instead of focusing on such unessential details why not focus on the essential ones instead ?

He-haw, haha!
Definition of a paranoid with a low self-esteem...he thinks thinks that no-one of any real importance is after him!

Originally Posted by svenis

Easy, at that speed the plane had so much kenetic ****** that the lightpoles were more like toothpicks.

At what speed? the Vne of the 757 is mach .86 (Beyond that the aircraft becomes eratic and uncontrollable) for even the most experienced pilot, to fly the aircraft 'on the deck' for more than a few seconds without either gaining or losing altitude, (especially after impacting objects on the ground) would be a super-human effort. KINETIC ******, btw, has nothing to do with velocity, acceleration, force or momentum.

[haha]

Look this ressembles much the debate about: did Louis Armstrong really went on the moon. 50 years after...

So what is it worth ? What is more worth is to know the real intention of the guys not from guesses but real hard proof. And there are - see other thread - if people would focus on them rather this would more advance democracy than to chase the goose.

[Bushwacker]

people believe what they wanna believe,one part believe the government are telling the truth,others remain steadfastly convinced that something sinister has taken place,and the rest just sit on the fence,but whatever the case the real point here is that there should have been no shadow of a doubt about these events...but there is and its not just one or two people,its millions who are convinced that an internal cover up has happened,and nothing that anyone can say will alter their feelings otherwise..
Myself..I am one of the ilk that is 100% on the side of a cover up and if folk shake their heads then thats fine,and my assumptions are based on the facts that there are too many inaccuracies that are suspicious to say the least,this will keep ringing in my head until the day I die...I say what I see,President Bush is a man who cannot be trusted,wherever he goes he gets the kind of reception that can turn ***** to ice,he is so stupid his IQ is the same as the temperature at the North Pole,the only things that are missing from him and his govmnt are black cloaks and scythes....
So svenis your explanations are interesting but are retrieved from BS sources,government tell you what you want to hear and expect you to believe,the truth can be distorted,its out there and until there is proof absolute then this storm will rage on....

[senorpoker]

Wow. This is quite the long post for this conspiracy theory. This is what I think is funny:

The theory is suggesting that a missle hit the pentagon and the government is trying to hide it.

Everyone who is into this theory seems to be on the Bush bashing trend, he is a liar, America is at fault for 911...blah blah blah. The same people who are syaing this say we don't belong in Iraq, we were mislead into the war, there is no threat to US safety...etc.

What I want to know is why the govt. would hide a missle hitting the pentagon? If all the Bush administration wants to do is find reasons to go to war, wouldn't getting hit with a missle be a dam good reason?

[teeanto]

Senorpoker,

What people are trying to say, is that the government shot down a U.S plane, with U.S citizens, that had also been hijacked. Although it would be justified, telling the American people that they killed Americans, would bring mixed feelings, and could backfire. They then fired a missile into the pentagon inorder to account for the missing plane, with others suggesting that they tactically took out a particular wing, that held sensitive documents.

Claiming that Al Qaida was responsible for the missile, and then justifying war would be ludacris, as people would want to know how they managed to get a missile into the U.S and freely launch it, i.e people would question their own security and intelligence and put the government at fault. I think that's what's being argued here.

tee

[duck]

Have any of you heard of Alix Jones? You can listen to him 3 times a day at: http://www.gcnlive.com/monday-friday.htm thats all he talks about 9/11 and bringing down the Bush regime. lots of other good shows on there too, like Jeff Rense who dissipeared off the air wave afier FOX NEWS bought up all the air waves to run their Republican political propaganda machine. Check them out! The Duck P.S you need winamp to listen: http://winamp.com/player/ and yes its free, and no I'm not an affiliate, but I should probibly become one.

[Pentagon-Conspiracy01]

Originally Posted by Betamanmn

You keep your opinions to yourself as they are based on lies and uneducated comments. I fear nothing and Americans fear nothing. We do however understand the reality of those who wish to destroy us. This is not fear is logic based on fact. You either sit back and wait to be destroyed or you take proactive measures to ensure those who wish to destroy you are destroyed themselves. As soon as you learn to separate the two (fear and logic) you will come down to reality.

Betaman, YOU are the idiot:

Here is proof sites a plane nver hit the pentagon!

Proof

Proof

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/...laneCrash.html

1. The pentagon was NEVER hit by an airplane.

Thats it, shocking words huh?

You see, here is the logic that the goverment has been able to blind from every idiot in the U.S.A. (Like betaman, the media idiot.).

What is my proof? simple there is no plane in the pentagon

MINUTES after the pentagon blew up, everybody was there.

Except the plane.

Amid the mass ruin and toil, fire and burning, NOT ONE SINGLE PART of the plane was discovered, it had "Vanished".

The plane that hit the pentagon was a Jumbo Jet, I dont think a "Jumbo" jet could dissapear after smashing into the pentagon.

THERE WAS NOTHING THERE, no plane, no plane parts, nothing, just a big HOLE in the pentagon.

Also,many people claimed they smelled cordite, and they KNEW a bomb was set off somewhere.

The conspiracy thickens.

There was no plane, no plane hit the pentagon, the Goverment LIED to you.

Also, 4 camera's filmed the pentagon explosion.

The supposed "Jumbo Jet" was suppose to have gone right over a highway, the F.B.I. came and took away both films from camera before anyone could view them.

Whatever flew over that highway, it was filmed, but the films were never released.

Why?

A shereton hotel roof camera filmed the pentagon explosion, the employees viewed the tape several times in HORROR before the F.B.I stormed in and took the tape.

The tape was never released.

Why?

A Gas stations cameras filmed the explosion, the F.B.I took the tapes.

The tapes were never released.

Why?

The media has been at the goverments throat for a long time with these facts, the goverment has been succesful in making there accusations private and non-public.

ALL THE GOVERMENT OF THE U.S.A HAS TO DO TO CLEAR ITS NAME IS SHOW THOSE TAPES, and if a plane WAS on the tapes, that would be proof and this conspiracy theory would be closed.

But the tapes, after four years, have still not been shown.

Why not?

Because those tapes dont show a plane, they show something else.

And the goverment is doing a good job to make sure we dont find out what....

More proof:

No photo shows airplane pieces, body parts of passengers, luggage, etc, nor do news reports mention such parts.

The initial damage was along the ground floor, which implies the plane hit the ground floor, but there is no airplane-shaped hole in the building. Most importantly, the body of the plane was taller than one floor of the building. Therefore, the body of the plane should have punched a hole through at least two floors.

The section that collapsed did so quite a while after the plane crash, just as the WTC buildings collapsed for no apparent reason long after the plane crashes (in the case of building 7, the collapse was many hours later).


Also betaman, this may shock you, the media LIES, the media is the goverments PUPPET.

Something happens, the goverment launches a conspiracy and a lie VIA media.

The goverments vioce is the media, and they use the media to LIE to YOU.

And your just the sop to believe there lies.

Photos of the North and South WTC towers show airplane-shaped holes, so where is the hole in the Pentagon? And where are the airplane pieces, luggage, and dead passengers?

We are told the plane came in low to the ground, which explains the lack of a hole in the upper floors of the building. However, the distance between the bottom of the engines and the top of the cabin is more than 18 feet (5.5m). From the bottom of the engines to the top of the tail is about 41 feet (12.6m). The Pentagon is 77 feet (23 meters) tall. Therefore, the plane was 53% of the height of the Pentagon.
Pentagon specs: http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pentagon/facts.html

Look at the size of the plane in my composite image. In order for the plane to hit only the first floor of the building, the engines would have to be below ground level, and we have to ignore the tail.

Also, the plane was 155 feet (47m) long; the only way such a long plane could slip into the first floor is if it were perfectly horizontal and perfectly level. The slightest tilting would cause it to take out the second floor or dig into the dirt.

Considering there is very busy freeway in front of the crash site, along with road signs, light posts, and trees, how did the plane get so close to the ground? Those Arabs were great pilots!


But the pilots of the plane were reported to be amatuers, the men who taught them said they were clueless.

Incredible stunts from poor pilots.

When an airplane crash has all the characteristics of a bomb, there is a good chance that it was a bomb.

I think a more sensible explanation for Flight 77 is that it never crashed into the Pentagon. Rather, the Pentagon fired a missile at the building, and they selected a section of the building that was being renovated in order to reduce deaths. I think they also set the missile to explode before it hit the building in order to reduce damage.

The plane that witnesses saw flying around the Pentagon may have been Flight 77, but that plane did not crash into the Pentagon.


What happened to Flight 77?
There were pieces of an airplane scattered around the Pennsylvania countryside. Everybody assumes that all of those pieces belong to Flight 93, but maybe Flight 77 crashed (or was shot down) over there, also.
This would explain why so many people are asking why the Flight 93 debris was scattered over many miles, as this site explains:
http://www.flight93crash.com/


Face it betaman, the pentagon was never hit by an airplane.

[Pentagon-Conspiracy01]

Originally Posted by Trufilian

You didn't watch the Presentation, did you? *Sighs* There were three other buildings, with a total of four cameras trained on the Pentagon: One at the Sheraton Hotel, one at a gas station only for Dept. of Defense personell, and two at the Dept. of Transportation. At the hotel, the staff watched the video over and over again, but the FBI came and confiscated it. The DoT's videos were nenver released, and the gas station's was never viewed. In fact, the FBI responded so quickly to the explosion, gathering the tapes and all, it'd be a wonder if they didn't have some influence in this.

I agree, also:

IF the plane was hit by an airplane all the goverment has to do is release those videos, and if there was a plane on it it would clear there goverment from the picture.

But they never released the videos.

Tell me, why did the goverment erase all evidence if the evidence pointed away from them? if it WAS a plane, why take the videos? why have they still not been released.

Why did they erase evidence, if what they say is true, that it was terrorists, why not DISPLAY the evidence publicly so we can all see?

Why not take those videos and show them all over the U.S. screaming see! see! theres an airplane right there!.

Ill tell you why, because there was no airplane.

period.

[waynegm]

I guess nobody who posted in this forum has lost anybody in any of the flights??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????

I did

Originally Posted by waynegm

I guess nobody who posted in this forum has lost anybody in any of the flights?

I did

So sorry to hear that, waynegm.
I hope you are coming to t e r m s with the loss!
Care to talk about it?

[waynegm]

Yeah, let me talk about it on the internet, on a message board that believes theres a conspiracy behind every "BUSH"

NOT

[scambuster]

Who did you lose?

Originally Posted by waynegm

Yeah, let me talk about it on the internet, on a message board that believes theres a conspiracy behind every "BUSH"

NOT

Hey, You brought it up! :confused: or are you just like most people here, all piss and wind???

[Betamanmn]

Originally Posted by Pentagon-Conspiracy01

Betaman, YOU are the idiot:

Here is proof sites a plane nver hit the pentagon!

Proof

Proof

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/...laneCrash.html

1. The pentagon was NEVER hit by an airplane.

Thats it, shocking words huh?

You see, here is the logic that the goverment has been able to blind from every idiot in the U.S.A. (Like betaman, the media idiot.).

What is my proof? simple there is no plane in the pentagon

MINUTES after the pentagon blew up, everybody was there.

Except the plane.

Amid the mass ruin and toil, fire and burning, NOT ONE SINGLE PART of the plane was discovered, it had "Vanished".

The plane that hit the pentagon was a Jumbo Jet, I dont think a "Jumbo" jet could dissapear after smashing into the pentagon.

THERE WAS NOTHING THERE, no plane, no plane parts, nothing, just a big HOLE in the pentagon.

Also,many people claimed they smelled cordite, and they KNEW a bomb was set off somewhere.

The conspiracy thickens.

There was no plane, no plane hit the pentagon, the Goverment LIED to you.

Also, 4 camera's filmed the pentagon explosion.

The supposed "Jumbo Jet" was suppose to have gone right over a highway, the F.B.I. came and took away both films from camera before anyone could view them.

Whatever flew over that highway, it was filmed, but the films were never released.

Why?

A shereton hotel roof camera filmed the pentagon explosion, the employees viewed the tape several times in HORROR before the F.B.I stormed in and took the tape.

The tape was never released.

Why?

A Gas stations cameras filmed the explosion, the F.B.I took the tapes.

The tapes were never released.

Why?

The media has been at the goverments throat for a long time with these facts, the goverment has been succesful in making there accusations private and non-public.

ALL THE GOVERMENT OF THE U.S.A HAS TO DO TO CLEAR ITS NAME IS SHOW THOSE TAPES, and if a plane WAS on the tapes, that would be proof and this conspiracy theory would be closed.

But the tapes, after four years, have still not been shown.

Why not?

Because those tapes dont show a plane, they show something else.

And the goverment is doing a good job to make sure we dont find out what....

More proof:

No photo shows airplane pieces, body parts of passengers, luggage, etc, nor do news reports mention such parts.

The initial damage was along the ground floor, which implies the plane hit the ground floor, but there is no airplane-shaped hole in the building. Most importantly, the body of the plane was taller than one floor of the building. Therefore, the body of the plane should have punched a hole through at least two floors.

The section that collapsed did so quite a while after the plane crash, just as the WTC buildings collapsed for no apparent reason long after the plane crashes (in the case of building 7, the collapse was many hours later).


Also betaman, this may shock you, the media LIES, the media is the goverments PUPPET.

Something happens, the goverment launches a conspiracy and a lie VIA media.

The goverments vioce is the media, and they use the media to LIE to YOU.

And your just the sop to believe there lies.

Photos of the North and South WTC towers show airplane-shaped holes, so where is the hole in the Pentagon? And where are the airplane pieces, luggage, and dead passengers?

We are told the plane came in low to the ground, which explains the lack of a hole in the upper floors of the building. However, the distance between the bottom of the engines and the top of the cabin is more than 18 feet (5.5m). From the bottom of the engines to the top of the tail is about 41 feet (12.6m). The Pentagon is 77 feet (23 meters) tall. Therefore, the plane was 53% of the height of the Pentagon.
Pentagon specs: http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pentagon/facts.html

Look at the size of the plane in my composite image. In order for the plane to hit only the first floor of the building, the engines would have to be below ground level, and we have to ignore the tail.

Also, the plane was 155 feet (47m) long; the only way such a long plane could slip into the first floor is if it were perfectly horizontal and perfectly level. The slightest tilting would cause it to take out the second floor or dig into the dirt.

Considering there is very busy freeway in front of the crash site, along with road signs, light posts, and trees, how did the plane get so close to the ground? Those Arabs were great pilots!


But the pilots of the plane were reported to be amatuers, the men who taught them said they were clueless.

Incredible stunts from poor pilots.

When an airplane crash has all the characteristics of a bomb, there is a good chance that it was a bomb.

I think a more sensible explanation for Flight 77 is that it never crashed into the Pentagon. Rather, the Pentagon fired a missile at the building, and they selected a section of the building that was being renovated in order to reduce deaths. I think they also set the missile to explode before it hit the building in order to reduce damage.

The plane that witnesses saw flying around the Pentagon may have been Flight 77, but that plane did not crash into the Pentagon.


What happened to Flight 77?
There were pieces of an airplane scattered around the Pennsylvania countryside. Everybody assumes that all of those pieces belong to Flight 93, but maybe Flight 77 crashed (or was shot down) over there, also.
This would explain why so many people are asking why the Flight 93 debris was scattered over many miles, as this site explains:
http://www.flight93crash.com/


Face it betaman, the pentagon was never hit by an airplane.

I think your proof is hogwash. A plane hit the pentagon. People saw it. That is proof enough! As far as your accusation that the media lie that is either a lie or a naive comment. The media report the news as they see it. They report the facts though they may slant them to their opinion. You leftists have the problem with knowing the meaning of the word lie. Conspiratorial idiots like you fail to know the truth when it is in front of you. 911 was simple. Plane hits building. People see it. People die. Nothing to complicated. Why would the media lie? When they report facts not real they are called to task on them. CBS and Dan Rather proved that point. You seem to have a trust issue. I am sorry you do but that is your problem. See a doctor about it. There are more then enough facts to prove 911 was what it was. Some other people here have posted excellent evidence to that fact. You really chose to live your lie of a life and disregard factual evidence? Again. I am sorry for you. That is your problem, not mine or the rest of the countries.

[Betamanmn]

Originally Posted by waynegm

I guess nobody who posted in this forum has lost anybody in any of the flights??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????

I did

I am extremely sorry for your loss.

I truly feel those who post these conspiracies disrespect those like you who did have loss on 911,

[senorpoker]

Originally Posted by Pentagon-Conspiracy01

I agree, also:

IF the plane was hit by an airplane all the goverment has to do is release those videos, and if there was a plane on it it would clear there goverment from the picture.

But they never released the videos.

Tell me, why did the goverment erase all evidence if the evidence pointed away from them? if it WAS a plane, why take the videos? why have they still not been released.

Why did they erase evidence, if what they say is true, that it was terrorists, why not DISPLAY the evidence publicly so we can all see?

Why not take those videos and show them all over the U.S. screaming see! see! theres an airplane right there!.

Ill tell you why, because there was no airplane.

period.

Everyone knows the JFK conspiracy, thats a hole different story, but the evidence in that case has just recently been available to the public. I don't know the exact details because I am too lasy to look them up but I know that anytime there is a government investigation, especialy one dealing with national security, the evidence is withheld from the public for around thirty years. My guess is the governemtn can't release the videos because of that.

[Yirmeyahu]

Originally Posted by Lorddeth

I was at work across the river from the Pentagon when the plane flew in and hit, any suggestion that there was no plane is WRONG....

You saw the plane, then?