Elite Activity Gifting Scheme

TennisBar · #1 06-29-2005, 01:22 PM

Elite Activity Gifting Scheme Hits Texas

UPDATE - On March 22, 2005, Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood announced: "an ongoing investigation conducted by his Consumer Protection Division has found that an illegal 'gifting' program known as 'Elite Activity' is operating in the state of Mississippi. Consumers are advised to avoid promotion and/or participation in this scheme." For more information, click here.

Dallas, TX, February 15, 2005 - The Better Business Bureau serving Dallas and Northeast Texas warns that gifting schemes known as Elite Activity, Elite Activities, Jacob's Ladder, and other names are recruiting now in Texas and other states.

In Houston, as reported on KHOU-TV and the Houston Chronicle, a pastor who was promoting Elite Activity was arrested on February 7, 2005, and charged with promoting an illegal pyramid. The case is pending. Assistant Harris County District Attorney Russell Turbeville said, "This appears to be the local arm of a national pyramid, so there could be tens of thousands of people involved in this throughout the United States."

Gifting schemes spread when individuals invite friends to participate, sometimes approaching fellow church or club members. Elite Activity claims: "Give a one time Gift of $100, and Receive $800, $2,000, $4,000, $8,000, $16,000, $32,000, and $48,000 in Gifts - Over and over Again!!!"

In order to keep going, gifting clubs must continually recruit ever-increasing numbers of members. When the supply of new members runs out, the pyramid collapses, and most people at the bottom of the pyramid lose their money.

Better Business Bureaus and state Attorneys General have been steadily issuing warnings about Elite Activity:

February, 2005: The BBB in Nashville warned: "Organizers may cloak their schemes in religious terms, using the love of God as a sales pitch or employing feel-good words like renewal celebrations. Some clubs are touted as fund-raisers for a good cause or as an em*****ment program to help people help themselves. However, gifting clubs are nothing more than pyramid schemes that separate people from their money."

December, 2004: The Kentucky Attorney General announced that an ongoing investigation found that an illegal gifting program known as Elite Activity is operating in Kentucky. Participants are told that "an attorney \researched the law and found the plan to be a legitimate gifting club under federal tax laws." The Kentucky Attorney General's office says: "These representations are not true … Clearly, each element of proof required to demonstrate that the Elite Activity program is an illegal pyramid is present."

August, 2004: The Arkansas Attorney General warned: "The clubs collapse, and most members who paid to join the clubs never receive the financial 'gift' they expected, and lose everything they paid to join the club … "

July, 2004: The South Dakota Attorney General said that the current gifting schemes are similar to ones that swept through the state in 2000 - when 34 people, including some business owners and government officials, were prosecuted for their roles in the scam.

March, 2004: The BBB in Myrtle Beach, SC, cautioned: "Don't let biblical quotes and the false representation of being a charity fool you into believing you can gain monetary success through an Elite Activity."

What is an illegal pyramid scheme in Texas? The Texas Attorney General states: "Under the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act, you may not promote a pyramid promotional scheme. A pyramid promotional scheme is a plan or operation by which a person gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from a person's introduction of other persons to participate in the plan or operation, rather than from the sale of a product by a person introduced into the plan or operation."

The Web site for Elite Activity is registered to: Prosperity Team, Inc., Elite Activity, PO Box 771, 276 Hurricane Street, Durham, NC 27704. To contact the BBB in Raleigh, NC, go to www.bbbenc.org, or call 919-872-9240.

Anyone who wants confirmation whether a gifting club - by whatever name - is a pyramid scheme should review the program with an independent attorney who is familiar with consumer law.

The Better Business Bureau and the Federal Trade Commission suggest that anyone who is approached to join a gifting scheme should:

Consider that a legitimate gift has no strings attached.
Avoid being misled into thinking a gifting club is legitimate because the members say they consider their payments a gift and expect nothing in return. This is an attempt to make an illegal transaction look legal.
Be wary of success stories or testimonials of tremendous payoffs. Very few members of illegal gifting clubs or pyramid schemes ever receive any money.
Take your time. Don't buckle under to a high-pressure sales pitch that requires you to join immediately or risk losing out on the opportunity.
Remember that pyramid schemes are illegal. Avoid plans that offer commissions based solely on recruiting new members.
Don't be swayed by assurances that the scheme has been "approved" or that charities will benefit from the gifting club. Before risking your money, your reputation, and your peace of mind, review the plan with an accountant or an independent attorney who is experienced in consumer law.

If you have lost money to a gifting scheme, contact your local police department or the Attorney General's office in your state. In Texas, contact the Consumer Protection Division of the Texas Attorney General. Call 214-969-5310 in Dallas or 1-800-337-3928 in Texas, or go online to www.oag.state.tx.us.

To contact the BBB serving Dallas and Northeast Texas, visit www.dallas.bbb.org. Or call 214-220-2000, or in surrounding areas call 1-800-705-3994. The address is: BBB, 2001 Bryan St., Suite 3850, Dallas, TX 75201. The fax is 214-740-0321.

mywealth · #2 06-29-2005, 04:48 PM

Don't listen to these

Attorney General's & Media Lies to Citizens

You have a Constitutional right......

View the Press Releases below.

Press Releases:

April 11th, 2005 - Texas

Law office of Henry W. Curtis Jr. Contact

Attn: Henry W. Curtis Jr./ Ron Mullen (713) 433-3906

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
What the Government doesn't want you to know..
Elite Activity finds a positive relationship with America
Houston, Texas - April 11, 2005 - Throughout history, change of any kind especially a new light that Em*****s and Blesses, has always been met with opposition. The wonderful Program of Elite Activity is no different. The consumer alerts and media press releases have not provided correct information pertaining to Elite Activity. This information came from a history of bad things done by other activities in the name of Gifting.

We, the participants of Elite Activity, find it expedient to address the mis-information surrounding this activity in the most effective way that enables the Truth to prevail wherever participants are being affected by Government intrusions and false reports in the media concerning the activity. Elite Activity was born of "The Intention to Em*****." It was created for the sole purpose of blessing lives and being a gift to all likeminded people regardless of race, religion, education, social-economic status, and geographical location. It is founded on a higher law...God's law, and embraces all goodly principles including truth, honesty, integrity, and abundance! God's law pertaining to gifting is found in Luke 6:38, "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

Elite is not a company; it is a Belief System. We invite any and all likeminded, kindhearted and honest people to embrace this belief system. The Elite Activity is not a Pyramid Scheme. A pyramid scheme is a fraudulent money-making scheme in which people are recruited to make payments to others above them in a hierarchy while expecting to receive payments from people recruited below them. Eventually the number of new recruits fails to sustain the payment structure, and the scheme collapses with most people losing the money they paid in. All Gifting activities have been painted with the same brush even though Elite is very different. There are no victims in this Activity, since it is impossible for anyone to lose anything. You can.t lose something you give away! It's very simple and based on a set of established guidelines. Elite Activity is not a money game! It's a belief system that follows a Higher Law. Our guidelines strictly prohibit participants from soliciting other participants for other interests, activities, or businesses. A fee is never required for participating in the Activity itself. No money is being invested, loaned, or otherwise given with the promise of a return. No one is pressured, enticed or otherwise mislead into joining this Activity. There is nothing to sell.

Elite Activity has been existence since February of 2001. We are committed to teach people of all backgrounds that they can live an abundant life. We believe that it is a divine experience to give freely to another human being. Feel free to contact me with any questions you may have regarding interview availability. Thank you. With sincere regards,

Henry W. Curtis Jr.
The Law Offices of Attorney Henry W. Curtis Jr.

-------------------------------

Press Releases:

June 17th, 2005 - Indiana

Law office of

Henry W. Curtis Jr. Contact

Attn: Henry W. Curtis Jr./ Ron Mullen

(713) 433-3906
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Indiana Attorney General Lies to Citizens...
Attorney General ignores Federal Law and Indiana State Law with respect to private gifts.
Elite Activity - June 16, 2005 The Attorney General of the Great State of Indiana has mislead its citizens with respect to their rights regarding unconditional giving.

The Deception: Attorney General Steve Carter states in his press release dated June 13, 2005 many inaccuracies in regards to The Elite Activity. For example, .The Elite Activity circulation materials .invite. people to participate in a .completely legal. plan based on the Internal Revenue Service gift rule that allows participants to exchange unlimited tax-free gifts. In order to receive gifts, the participant must recruit more members,. says Steve Carter. The truth is, giving is legal in all States and the Elite Activity Guidelines do not support nor endorse recruiting of any kind. Also, participants participate in Elite because they choose to, not because they have to. There are no members in Elite.

The Lie: An Affidavit of Todd Vansickle, an investigator for the Indiana Office of Attorney General, was presented in court under the darkness of night. It consists of 19 numbered paragraphs. The affidavit was not delivered to Elite Activity, but merely faxed to a company that has nothing to do with the content of the Elite Activity, at close of business on Friday June 10, 2005 along with papers stating that early Monday June 13, 2005, the Attorney General would be in court to ask that these baseless lies about Elite be taken as the truth. Mr Vansickle did not allow for any responsible party associated with The Elite Activity to be in court on June 13, 2005 to present the Elite story. According to Mr. Vansickle.s statement he had been investigating since April 25, 2005. In that time he never once contacted the Elite Activity. The Elite Activity founders have a stellar reputation for meeting with various State Officials and Law Enforcement in regards to the Elite Philosophy and our Pure Intent.

What We Believe in Elite: We believe that U.S. Const. Amendment XIV states in relevant part: "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of the citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

On July 15, 2005 at 8:00AM in Hendricks Superior Court, a deputy attorney general by the name of Eric Jackson will present fabrication and deception as pertaining to the Elite Activity, in an attempt to get a temporary injunction.

I am the lawyer licensed in the State of Texas state bar number 05282400, who understands that I have Federal constitutional rights in every state of the Union. This also includes the state of Indiana. I along with the founders of Elite Activity challenge the Indiana Attorney General to a public debate on the issue of private gifting with respect to every citizens rights in this country. (See IRS Publication 950,Title 26, USC SEC. 2501-2504, 2511, also Indiana Code 24-5-0.5-6, 24-5-0.5-2(8).

The Question: Does the Attorney General of the State of Indiana Support and Defend the Constitution of the United States of America? Does the AG.s office support unconditional giving in Indiana? The citizens of Indiana deserve to know this about their state leaders and will know the answer on July 15, 2005.

Govern yourselves accordingly.

Henry W. Curtis Jr.
The Law Offices of Attorney Henry W. Curtis Jr.
----------------------------------------

Is Gifting Legal?

Yes! It has always been legal to give! Both American and Canadian citizens have a legal and Constitutional right to give property, cash, and other assets of value as established by law. In Gifting, individuals give freely to one another, and those individuals cannot lose their money because a gift, given unconditionally is not something that can be lost! You can not lose what you have already unconditionally given away! In the ELITE ACTIVITY we send our gifts to one another expecting nothing back in return. It would be illegal if there were a promise of a return on a gift. There are no promises or guarantees of a return of any kind! These types of terms are what you would find in a business situation and remember, we are not a business.

Furthermore, the U.S. gifting law, found in the IRS Tax Code, Title 26, Sections 2501-2504 and 2511, states that one or more individuals can give a gift or gifts to another individual of up to $11,000 per calendar year without any tax liability being incurred by the recipient of the gift. The Canadian Tax Code, Sections 143.3 and 62.0 establish legal gifting in Canada and there is no specified cap on the amount of gifts before tax liability is incurred. Since the taxes on the gift have already been paid and because the gift is not given in exchange for a product or service and it is NOT an investment, these gifts are not required to be reported as gross income of the recipient (See 26 USC § 102).

sojustask · #3 06-29-2005, 06:12 PM

IRS code does not cover "gifting" to individuals who are solicited into a program designed for that purpose. So though you are not taxed if someone should gift you with a monetary gift, if you participate in a "gifting program" set up and designed to "gift" monetarily as in a matrix, you are liable. And it is considered illegal in many states.
You neglected the first part of the letter:
http://www.eliteactivity.tv/frontroo...age=lawyer.php

Which is a front page to their gifting program website. And that is NOT a press release. Also, a search on the attorney turns his name up on only one other website. There it is revealed that he is also a writer.

http://www.ebonylifestyles.com/INFOP...erlyHatter.htm

CONSULTANT/PROJECT COORDINATOR

In order to assist individuals and businesses on specific entertainment projects, Kim formed an entertainment company called Constant Balance Entertainment. The firm has worked with local and national musical artists, songwriters, producers, record companies, and artist management companies. Kim has drafted and negotiated contracts and brokered long-term relationships between various entities. Kim also served as the production assistant on a theatrical production featuring actress Rozanne Damone Curtis. To further meet the needs of her growing clientele, Kim has developed standing relationships with prominent attorney and promoter John R. Chiles, IV (Chilesplay Entertainment) and attorney and writer Henry W. Curtis, Jr.

Lady Mod

Quote:

Originally Posted by mywealth

Is Gifting Legal?

Furthermore, the U.S. gifting law, found in the IRS Tax Code, Title 26, Sections 2501-2504 and 2511, states that one or more individuals can give a gift or gifts to another individual of up to $11,000 per calendar year without any tax liability being incurred by the recipient of the gift. The Canadian Tax Code, Sections 143.3 and 62.0 establish legal gifting in Canada and there is no specified cap on the amount of gifts before tax liability is incurred. Since the taxes on the gift have already been paid and because the gift is not given in exchange for a product or service and it is NOT an investment, these gifts are not required to be reported as gross income of the recipient (See 26 USC § 102).

TennisBar · #4 06-30-2005, 09:56 AM

Mywealth--- Is this guy even a ligitmate Lawyer? Is he on Crack???
Accusing the AG and the BBB of lies.. What Media is he refering to..??

There was a great news stories on Elite Activity Gifting Scheme in Houston and Dallas with some great undercover camera action.. It was funny and exposed all of this crap to the public.. The Video Tape does not LIE!!!

mywealth · #5 07-01-2005, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisBar

Mywealth--- Is this guy even a ligitmate Lawyer? Is he on Crack???
Accusing the AG and the BBB of lies.. What Media is he refering to..??

There was a great news stories on Elite Activity Gifting Scheme in Houston and Dallas with some great undercover camera action.. It was funny and exposed all of this crap to the public.. The Video Tape does not LIE!!!

He's a real lawyer.... Call him up to say hello...

What's so funny about having a Prviate Meeting? I see alot of people
having meetings.. So for them to have a undercover camera it's just
being foolish... They sure didn't arrest anyone did they? No.

Let me ask you this...

If, I want to give my money to someone is that (Illegal)?

No, course not...

Is that a scam? No.... If so, tell me where's the scam at?

If Elite is illegal why haven't they shut them down?

Anyway.... Have a good one!

sojustask · #6 07-01-2005, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mywealth

If Elite is illegal why haven't they shut them down?

Anyway.... Have a good one!

Man, how many times do we hear this in a day about these scams? Too numerous to keep up with.

If he is listed with the AG and BBB it means it's being watched and investigated. Eventually it will be shut down and people will go to jail.

Lady Mod

mywealth · #7 07-02-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojustask

Man, how many times do we hear this in a day about these scams? Too numerous to keep up with.

If he is listed with the AG and BBB it means it's being watched and investigated. Eventually it will be shut down and people will go to jail.

Lady Mod

Man, how many times do we hear this in a day about these scams?

I have heard a few of them getting into trouble, for number of
reasons. But, that's just like big corp, that also been in trouble for
scamming... Example: Eron? hmmm billions of dollars.. Not all business
or gifting programs are scams.

But Elite has never scammed anyone whatsoever..

> Eventually it will be shut down and people will go to jail

Well then 90% for american people well be going to jail then.
What your saying, is it's illegal to give your money to anyone
you wish... Hmmm Let's see, when my daughter has a birthday,
I aways give her a cash-gift, even on christmas.. I give my money
to my chruch... I will give my money to anybody I wish too.

How many people do that?

Or what about politicians? Oh yes, they get their millions of
dollars from amercian citizens, they even call you up on the phone.
to cash-gift them...and they do it in public..... I'm sure you think
that's okay for them to do it...

sojustask · #8 07-02-2005, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mywealth

But Elite has never scammed anyone whatsoever..

You are a stranger here. There is no reason why anyone should take your word over the AG or BBB. The premise is not giving children you know and love a gift, the premise is giving monetary gifts to strangers in a matrix or pyramid. All partie's then solicit others into the scheme so that they can be "gifted" in return for sending their gifts. Apparently you are ignorant to the difference between the two. One is legal, the other isn't.

Politicians solicit monies for their party. They do not put people into a matrix or pyramind and promise them money in return for their gift. Again, your ignorance of how gifting programs operate is showing.

The best thing you could do is let the subject drop and don't solicit any business off a SCAM board.

Lady Moderator

truefactology · #9 07-13-2005, 11:47 PM

Attorney Curtis is indeed the real thing.

Goto the website below, and search for his bar number 05282400

http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm...lient_main.cfm

Bottom-line: We will all know if this activity is Illegal IF the official website is shut-down, until that time, people will continue to be blessed by this wonderful activity. Only a federal judge (or maybe ultimately the Supreme Court) can say it is illegal (it isn't). All other claims (i.e., BB warnings, AG lies, my claims, your claims, etc.) are pure conjecture and opinion. Napster was legal up until the day a federal judge said it wasn't. And guess what happened to Napster? If the activity is illegal, the same thing should happen to it -- IT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN!

WHY do these liars hold press conferences, write biased articles, POST all types of alerts and warnings saying people are being scammed and injured, BUT NOT ONE of these public servants will SHUT IT DOWN!! WHY?? Why does the public have to read the paper or go on-line to read about a KNOWN illegal activity so they don't get involved. What if they don't find out in time?? SHUT THE doggone website down, and no one will be scammed ever again!!

WHY haven't they done it, what is taking so long?? There are BB alerts in this post that date all the way back to March of 2004. Why are they letting people get scammed??? It is easy to shut an illegal website down. Law enforcement does it everyday! Phishing scammers, copyright pirates, etc. all get shut down with in days of them getting found out --But not the Elite Acitivty -- Why?? To help the poor injured public in one easy step...
Shut down the website -- no official website -- no activity -- it's that simple!

The state of Indiana is the first to even try. They are trying to obtain a TEMPORARY injunction against the Elite Activity from being active in their state. The hearing as noted in mywealth's post will be on July 15.

If the Indiana AG is able to convince the judge to impose a TEMPORARY injunction, the Elite Activity founders will have to fight it out in the courts. It is still early, but only after the last appeal has been ruled on will we all KNOW if this activity in the eyes of the US government is truly illegal. Until that time (no matter what side you are on) -- IT IS ALL OPINION!

I for one hope the activity stays around forever because I personally have experienced and seen many people experience the LAW of ABUNDANCE! It is truly a wonderful thing!!

mamadoc · #10 07-15-2005, 05:13 PM

I probably have the best information about the Elite Activity SCAM than anyone. o.k. EVERYONE READY....HERE GOES: After my church was raided by the police and my husband arrested for participating in Elite Activity for two months, we came to realize very quickly that it is a scam! The founders of the Activity, Harvey Docksdader and Dahloa Freeman, aka Dee, came to our church to promote this "wonderful" activity when we realized that they were into some religious beliefs that did not line up with the Bible that I read. Saying that Buddah, Muhammed and Jesus are all the same person. In a private meeting, we forbid them to speak of these things in our church. We even discussed getting out of the Activity right then becaue of this major problem. I sure wish we would have. Well the founders were deeply offended because of our rigoruos stand and even more offended when we cut the microphone off after they allowed their religious "guru" to have the microphone even though we had forbidden them to do it. Because of this offense, the founders of the Activity have not come to our aid to help us in any form even though when this first went down, Harvey promised my husband on the phone that he would be here and that he would also help with the mounting legal bills which are at the present way more than we can afford. Our names have been slammed in the press, because we believed what they said and went with it. We believed the scam. The scam did work though. Wow did it work. I dont think that anyone could help but prosper with this program. That however is not the point. If it's illegal, we can't participate. Lots of people make alot of money selling crack too, which by the way is also a felony. The prerson that recruited my husband did have it checked out by three attorneys and they all gave him the go ahead. Only Houston, Harris County has charged anyone and to my knowledge, my husband is the only human currently charged with anything, even though the founders have been in and out of town many times and even stood on the courthouse steps and spread out their arms declaring "here I am come get me." Well I guess I feel better. Thanks to all of you who are standfing up and against this Activity. I hope they get shut down so this doesnt happen to anyone else.

letspreadtheword · #11 07-17-2005, 11:19 AM

You forgot the main IMPORTANT part ma'am. Your husband wasn't arrested because of his involvement with Elite. He was arrested because he went out of protocol. There is a difference. It makes it difficult for the founders to throw their full support to him, once it was found out that there is more to the story than meets the eye.

The founders of Elite are not born again believers in the real sense of the term. I agree. But God is not looking for born again believers - God is looking for WILLING vessels, to execute his plans. Where were we, (born agains) when God looked around, and had to chose Mel Gibson and inspired him to make a movie that has brought many to the knowledge of Christ? His movie is still being used for evangelism and bringing many to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. The truth is, we as true believers are not willing to take risks, because we don't want our dress "soiled" and our "good" name tainted. Let me therefore ask you, would you have been willing to take the kind of heat Dee and Harvey are taking, just to help people? Would you have been willing to be called a scam artist even though the evidence shows otherwise? Would you have been willing to let your life and everything you do be scrutinized by the government and the media, just to prove that your cause is genuine? I don't think so! Because one adversity, here you are, bashing the very activity that you have benefited from by your own admission. Until we believers are prepared to take risks, God is going to raise up many more Dees and Harveys and Mel Gibsons to change the world. Mark my words!

For those who think Elite will be shut down, it will be difficult. Because everything the founders claimed will happen in the activity is happening. Noone who is involved in Elite looses anything because the money is not invested in the first place. If anyone says they lost money in Elite, they will be investigated and proven to be a LIAR. The software is so *****ful, that it is flawless to say the least, as long as you follow protocol. The government have laws laid out for citizens to follow; the employer has rules for employees to follow; the school system has rules for students, teachers and parents to go by, the church has rules for congregation to follow. In all of these scenarios, people are expected to follow instructions. So when you come in to Elite, follow their protocol and no one is going to arrest you. People like to re-invent the wheel. It doesn't always work.

As far as the government is concerned, they are only doing their job to protect consumers from FRAUD. They know gifting is not and has NEVER been a scheme or a scam. It is a principle that has and is being practised everyday. But they have to step in and protect people from being taken advantage of. And yes, many people have been scammed through gifting programs. So the government is not a pack of fools. They know EXACTLY what they are doing. They have a right to scrutinize EVERY gifting program that is found out, to weed the wheat from the chaff.

If Elite can demonstrate to them that they are about helping people rather than hurting them, (and they have far more than enough proof on that one), and can prove that what they are doing is ETHICAL and LEGAL, they will be left alone. With job losses, sending of jobs overseas, benefits being cut back, people being forced to take pay-cuts, hours being cut back, noone knows more than the government. They know people are going to look for alternatives. All THEY want is PROOF, that your alternative is not about scamming and defrauding innocent people. Elite works like they say it does and doesn't cause harm to noone! My prediction is that the fire will die out and they will be left alone.

The ball is in the court of Elite founders, attorney and participants. Prove your case to the government and you will be fine. They are not out to get you; they are out to protect the consumer.

And for Elite bashers and naysayers, how many unemployed or single parents, have you helped? How many homes have you stopped from being foreclosed? How many cars have you stopped from being repossessed? How many people have you helped get out of debt? How many people have you helped start their own business? Participants of Elite are doing all of that! Can you say the same thing?

Leave them alone, let them continue to help people until the government says they can't!

mamadoc · #12 07-17-2005, 04:53 PM

letsspreadtheword,

You said,

Quote:

"You forgot the main IMPORTANT part ma'am. Your husband wasn't arrested because of his involvement with Elite. He was arrested because he went out of protocol. There is a difference. It makes it difficult for the founders to throw their full support to him, once it was found out that there is more to the story than meets the eye."

This is PappaDoc! I never went outside the guidelines of elite activity! As a matter of fact Harvey and Dee were aware of everything we did and we had their full blessing on it. As far as what I was arrested for it is really simple: Promotion of a PYRAMID SCHEME which was Elite Activity. I was being blessed as were others but that doesn't make it legal. You need to get you head out of the sand as you haven't talked to the D.A. and I have. They are not interested in me they are interested in shutting down Elite Activty. If the founders say it's legal let them come prove it in a room in the court and not on the steps of the court. Having a press conference doesn't make it legal. You could have a press conference saying crack is legal but that doesn't make it so. I simply did what i saw Tim Hunt do in Steve Munsey's church on his DVD. The founders must fight all the way to the Supreme coudt like Amway did to have a legal ruling. I doubt they will do that they will just let people like yo and me take the fall and then say we did something wrong. All I have to say is you will see soon who is right. Hint: It's me!!!

Stay Away From Elite Activity it has already cost me 42,000.00 in legal bills!!!

Peace,

PappaDoc

truefactology · #13 07-17-2005, 06:05 PM

Papadoc, it has been alleged that you DID the following (I hope you didn’t):

'That pastor in Texas allegedly had a side business named the Canaan Group and the website (canaangroup.com -- now SHUT DOWN) sold DVDs, T-Shirts, business cards, etc. This business was being used as a backdrop to Elite Activity. In other words, this pastor used Elite Activity as a front for a commercial business. Clearly, the activity is not a business, so not sure what this Canaan Group was all about. But if you see this canaan group DVD, you will see where there is talk of "making a lot of money", you will see that it was produced by this Canaan Group, and not the elite activity. No one "MAKES or EARNS" any money in the elite activity.'

Now here are the Elite Activity Guidelines:

Elite Activity Guidelines

Guidelines have been established to maintain the integrity and high standards of this activity. Because it is our sincere wish and hope that all who join us will be blessed by gifts and abundance, we endeavor to make this activity as fair and equal as humanly possible for everyone who chooses to participate. This is a private activity and our guidelines are designed to ensure that this activity remains fun and viable for the long-term benefit of participants. Simply put, our guidelines enforce respect for each other and the law as it pertains to gifting.

Sharing this activity is by personal, one-to-one invitation only! Privacy is paramount. There shall be no advertising or broadcasting regarding this activity, its web address, and/or private phone numbers, i.e., no email spamming, no fax blasts, no direct mail, etc.

There are no organized gatherings of any kind such as hotel or restaurant meetings, for the purpose of inviting participants. Such gatherings would violate the privacy of the activity and give the appearance of commerce or trade.

Within 24 hours of accepting the invitation, each new participant should contact the Senior of the panel for personal information and gift preferences. (Cash, cashier's check, money order, or electronic transfer, and the address to send the gift to).

The new participant will send the gift along with signed Gifting and Non-Solicitation Statements to the Senior, via private overnight courier, such as FedEx, Airborne, UPS, etc. (Senior’s Choice).

The new participant must give the Senior a courier tracking number for the gift in order to be accepted on the Senior’s panel. If no tracking number or gift is received in a reasonable time and after correspondence the new participant is not placed on a panel.

In this private activity “Gifts” are given freely and without consideration. There is to be absolutely no selling of designations on a panel. A gift does not involve the selling of anything and does not earn rights to anything. Therefore a "Gift" cannot be sold or exploited for any purpose.

There is to be no solicitation of participants in this activity for other interests, activities or businesses. Participants must always respect the privacy of the activity and its participants.

Any participant found to be in violation of these guidelines would be uninvited from the activity.

Terminology

In communicating with others, it is VERY IMPORTANT that we use the appropriate terminology.

Participants DO NOT use the following terminology in the activity:

Investment Took In Paid out
Paid Earnings Paid off Getting Paid
Make Play the panel Sponsor
Profits Play the house Recruit
Dividends Guarantee Sign-up
Player Assured Buy Buy-in
Down-line Sure bet Purchase
Up-line Earn Payout
Return Multiply your money
Guarantee Net Pay

Participants DO use the following terminology in the activity:

Gift Gifter I gave
Give Helping others Activity
Right to give Senior I have received
Receive Junior Participant
I have gifted Giving Family
Freshmen Nice people Sophomore
Participation Register your gift Giving
Golden Rule Associates Panel
Invited by Fellow man Community
Constitutional Rights Kindness Free association
Sharing Caring Invitation

These guidelines are posted in the guest area of the official website. It has been alleged that YOU DID NOT follow these guidelines PapaDoc. And anyone who watches your video or has been to your website could come to the conclusion that you did not have PURE INTENT, and were indeed running a commercial business, and using the elite activity as a front for the Canaan Group. Hopefully, those conclusions would be wrong. If they are, you should win your case.

BTW, I wouldn't be broadcasting that you followed everything that Tim Hunt did. It has been alleged that he did not follow the guidelines either, and it was also communicated by the leadership that he is no longer in the Elite Activity. What is more, he may even be a wanted man by the same law enforcement officials that arrested you. Not good company to associate yourself with...

truefactology · #14 07-17-2005, 08:15 PM

Oh yeah. Here is another source that mentions this Canaan Group:

Source: Houston Chronicle [02/08]

"Pastor (deleted) set the stage for this financial fleecing by aiming his cluelessly-faithful followers at a goodie called "The Elite Activity" - A.K.A. "The Canaan group"."

Now I reiterate, the Elite Activity and the Canaan Group are NOT one in the same. This report would leave you to believe that the Elite Activity is "Also known as" (AKA) the Canaan Group. This is inaccurate reporting.

The Canaan group is allegedly your creation Papadoc and is in no way related to the Elite Activity. Now this does not mean the Canaan Group was an illegal pyramid scheme, but please be truthful. You were arrested because of the Canaan Group, not the Elite Activity.

As your wife so truthfully put it, the founders have been very public of their support of the Elite Activity in your state/town. And have made COUNTLESS trips to your area (including rallies and press conferences) POST-ARREST, but no one else has been arrested. WHY????

Also, I doubt Attorney Curtis would put his career on the line, by supporting and defending an "illegal" activity. Especially, being so bold to do so in the same state that someone was allegedly arrested because they were a participant.

Papa and Mama, your stories just don't add up. Why only you? If you and your wife would tell the whole truth, you may say that the Canaan Group was the real reason for the arrest, but you still feel you will be exonerated in a court of law. That is why you are paying the hefty legal bills (and not taking a plea agreement)!! PEOPLE think about it for just one moment. If Papa and Mama really believe the Elite Activity is illegal, why in the world would they post it, if they are fighting for Papadoc's freedom?? If it is really illegal then Papa doesn't have much of a case -- DOES HE?? Only you, and hopefully your attorneys know the truth.

Let me suggest you concentrate on winning your case (or worse, stop pretending to be someone you are not), and let the Elite Activity concentrate on blessing those that could use another blessing.

Thanks!

letspreadtheword · #15 07-17-2005, 08:49 PM

Papadoc: You must be a very unlucky man to have been the only one arrested in Elite Activity. The government will NEVER arrest anyone for giving and sharing of gifts. They are not out to shut down Elite. They are out to protect consumers from fraud. Therefore they have a right to investigate what goes on in the activity. If it is found to be fraudulent and that people are coming forward to complain, it will be shut down. If no fraudulent activity is found, and it is proven that Elite doesn't meet the classification of an illegal pyramid scheme, they have no reason to shut it down. Remember, the government is not after Elite because they got complaints of fraud, they are after them because people called the AG's office to find out if it is legal. That was what sparked the flame. The concern is, has this activity been truly structured for it not to collapse? That is a burden Elite founders and attorney will have to prove.

Personally, I believe you were tremendously blessed and wanted to see others blessed too. Unfortunately, you got a little over excited and did or said some things that got some members concerned, and they raised an alarm. Right or wrong? Anyway, I understand the charges have been reduced. Thank the good Lord and move on, rather than launching an all out war against Elite.

letspreadtheword · #16 07-18-2005, 05:27 AM

You said,

As far as what I was arrested for it is really simple: Promotion of a PYRAMID SCHEME which was Elite Activity. I was being blessed as were others but that doesn't make it legal. You need to get you head out of the sand as you haven't talked to the D.A. and I have. They are not interested in me they are interested in shutting down Elite Activty. If the founders say it's legal let them come prove it in a room in the court and not on the steps of the court. Having a press conference doesn't make it legal. You could have a press conference saying crack is legal but that doesn't make it so. I simply did what i saw Tim Hunt do in Steve Munsey's church on his DVD. The founders must fight all the way to the Supreme coudt like Amway did to have a legal ruling. I doubt they will do that they will just let people like yo and me take the fall and then say we did something wrong. All I have to say is you will see soon who is right. Hint: It's me!!!

Stay Away From Elite Activity it has already cost me 42,000.00 in legal bills!!!

Peace,

PappaDoc[/quote]

How can the practice of God's principle (Luke 6:38) cost you $42,000 in legal fees? Please help me understand sir. If Elite is shut down, it would be for something else. Certainly not for giving and sharing of gifts. NO government in WORLD arrests people because they chose to come together and help out each other by the giving and sharing of gifts. If they arrested you, you did something else that you are still in denial of. This practice has been in existence in many cultures around the world long before you and I were born. I have said this before and I will say it again. The government is after Elite for one thing and one thing only - to demonstrate to them that it is not a pyramid scheme, and that it will not collapse and cause harm to those who chose to participate. If the activity can present convincing evidence that it is not a scam, they will be left alone. For that to happen, they will have to go through a legal battle. It may very well be that Elite is prepared to stick it out and get it over with once and for all. One of two things is going to happen - either they make their case and win, or they fail and loose. If they loose they will be shut down. If they win, they will be allowed to practise their philosophy without any interference.

You see why God don't give true Christians big projects? They don't want to pay the price. It's like we want to go to Heaven but we don't want die.

Nipitnthebud · #17 07-18-2005, 05:42 AM

Gifting Programs are illegal run the other way fast! End of Story

mamadoc · #18 07-18-2005, 07:36 AM

Quote:

How can the practice of God's principle (Luke 6:38) cost you $42,000 in legal fees? Please help me understand sir. If Elite is shut down, it would be for something else. Certainly not for giving and sharing of gifts. NO government in WORLD arrests people because they chose to come together and help out each other by the giving and sharing of gifts. If they arrested you, you did something else that you are still in denial of. This practice has been in existence in many cultures around the world long before you and I were born. I have said this before and I will say it again. The government is after Elite for one thing and one thing only - to demonstrate to them that it is not a pyramid scheme, and that it will not collapse and cause harm to those who chose to participate. If the activity can present convincing evidence that it is not a scam, they will be left alone. For that to happen, they will have to go through a legal battle. It may very well be that Elite is prepared to stick it out and get it over with once and for all. One of two things is going to happen - either they make their case and win, or they fail and loose. If they loose they will be shut down. If they win, they will be allowed to practise their philosophy without any interference.

You see why God don't give true Christians big projects? They don't want to pay the price. It's like we want to go to Heaven but we don't want die.

I fully agree that giving is the right thing to do and Give on a regular basis. As far as being arrested I believe I would know more about why than you as I was there. LOL The Canaan group was just the name of our group within elite activity. We did that so when they had big get togathers we could wear our Canaan shirts. We also set up training for our Canaan group members. As you know the founders are not born again believers and we just wanted our group to be founded on the word of God not just use a scripture like Luke 6:38 to compel people to join. The problem the government has with elite is that people don't get in because they want to give they get in because they want to receive. In order to do that they must get two. Now I don't believe this couold ever happen but the law isn't built on "we hope it doesn't happens" The law says that when total saturation occurs the last two people in lose. Why, there is no product exchanged worth 100.00. Now I know you say it was a gift! But the gift was given with the hopes of a return. Find me someone that gave their 100.00 and went to the meetings expecting nothing in return. The ONLY reason they get in is they HOPE it works. Does it work? Sure it does if you work it. So, who has the final word? GOD, and He says we are to OBEY the law of the land and until the founders quit talking and start proving that Elite is legal as a Christian you cannot participate. Please understand I am all for giving but doing it Elite's way landed me in jail!!!!

The founders told me they were going to help me but when it came down to it their integrity found it easier to say I was doing something different than Elite. I think I'll give the Harris County DA this address and let them tell you why I was arrested!!! If you are promoting Elite Activity STOP!!! They are coming for you!!!

PappaDoc

Divinity · #19 07-18-2005, 08:06 AM

Is Elite Activity Illegal? Is it illegal for one to share with someone else less fortunate? Is it illegal for someone to request assistance with their childs doctor bills, or with paying bills they have accumulated and then lost their job? Hmm let's see- everyday we are bombarded with requests for monetary gifts by someone, and yet no one cries PANHANDLERS; Why? Because the CAUSE justifies the MEANS? I think not, law is law by the naysayers estimation, and if it is law and we feel it is wrong for us to participate, why then do we shell out billions of dollars every year to these causes? Because we know in our heart of hearts NO ONE has the right to tell us how we spend our hard earned money of which the GOVERNMENT has already taken a healthy share!

Now we have a well organized activity which addresses the problem of how to give unconditionally to each other, and be able to do so without deprivation of self, and everyone wants to cry PYRAMID! Does this not strike a chord?

I feel it comes down to choice! The participants of the Elite Activity who do follow the protocol, do not use any sort of tactics to invite others to this beautiful activity, and certainly do not make you feel there is an air of urgency to join! We have a choice to participate or not, and those who do choose to participate enjoy abundance overflowing!

As for it collapsing; How? A pyramid has a ever widening base where only those on the top receive the lions share so to speak! In the Elite Activity everyone has the same opportunity to receive the same amount of gifts from the founders to the new invitee!

This particular activity has been going on for over 10 years, and has blessed many people lives! Gifting has been going on for thousands of years, and has done the same, so why do you who do not understand it think you can stop it by making unfounded complaints?

I will not point fingers, as I can never know what lies in the heart of another person, however I will say this; The law of resiprosity works in all our lives, and needs no recognition we alone feel the effects of it acknowledged or not. A tree is evident by the fruit it bears, and the wheat will be separated from the chafe!

We were all given the inherant ability to make choices in and for our lives which determine the path we take, so the bottom line is; it is our independent choice to participate in whatever activity we choose, be it Gifting, MLM, Clubs, Fund raising, Party Going, or whatever else comes along so we need to choose wisely, and stop accusing others for the choices WE MAKE!

Is the Elite Activity a scam? For me being able to make a choice, I think not.

In Christ!

Divinity!

Divinity · #20 07-18-2005, 09:43 AM

WOW PaPa Doc,

I really feel for you that you have so much malice for the Elite Activity, but have you stopped to really examine why. It seems to me you were first brain washed by Tim Hunt as many were, and now you are being brain washed by the DA! Can you not discern truth for yourself? How many boards did you have in Elite? Protocol is one according to Tim Hunts aggenda it's seven. Which one did you follow?

You say you were gifted many times over but you were still arrested? Well protocol is for everyone to attend the Elite conference calls. Didn't you all have your own private conference calls? Protocol says to teach your invitees to use the dataport system, and to educate them in adding their invitee's their self. Didn't Tim Hunt teach to collect every one's money and place people on the board? If you are going to speak truth then step up to the mike, and speak truth! How do I know all these things, because sir, my invitor was a victim of Tim Hunts tactics, and if I had not been a researcher he may have been one of those like you who received wrong information by not reading what is put there for ALL participants to read. After reading the information on the website I called my invitor back, and informed him that he should sit down, and take the time to read because someone was leading him wrong! The very next week you were arrested, and Tim Hunt is wanted.

You are right in saying you were there and should know better than anyone. What you have left out is your decision to commercialize and market a PRIVATE ACTIVITY!

None of the things you say you did within the caanan group is encouraged. Dee and Harvey may have known what you all were doing, but being it is NOT a BUSINESS, what could they have really done about it? Whoever comes into Elite Activity is encouraged to FOLLOW protocol, not FORCED TO!

Again it comes down to choices. You had a choice to follow protocol, and reap the benefits or follow your own agenda! You chose to follow someone elses agenda, and now you want to poison others minds with your malice. If you are truly a minister I say shame on you! You should be somewhere praying that everyone in this world would be blessed with the abundance you were blessed with thru the Elite Activity!

So what if Dee and Harvey is not your view of what a christian should be. Can you honestly say what their relationship with God is? Budda, Mohammed, and whoever else can be used by God if he so chose, can you honestly say he did not use these men for his own purposes? To try and throw the focus on their PERSONAL beliefs, rather than their PURE INTENT for all peoples, is further evidence of who is on higher ground in my estimation. Then to imply that you will give the DA this address?? Just what did you mean by that? Are we to not address the issues you have brought to the table when we know them to be false, because you threaten to give this address to the DA? Are we to be deprived of our right to free speech because you don't like what we defend and stand up for?

I have nothing against you sir, but take my advice and let it go! Suck it up, and get on with your life in Christ! Tend to your flock, and pray for those in the Elite Activity who have made a CHOICE to continue to participate despite what is being said. Your maligning the activity is not going to pay your legal fees so one christian to another what is the point? Maybe one day soon it will come to light that the activity is legal, and then you can participate again with impunity! After all it is you who said IT WORKS!

Divinity!

letspreadtheword · #21 07-18-2005, 12:24 PM

Give my address to the DA? How interesting! So because PappaDoc commercialized Elite and found himself in trouble, everyone else should suffer? How vindictive. If there is anyone you should be angry at, it's those you were trying to help that got you bursted. Again I repeat for the last time - the government will only shut down Elite if there is convincing evidence that it is a scam, illegal and unethical, and that it would cause financial and emotional harm to consumers. If there is no smoking gun, they will be left alone.

truefactology · #22 07-18-2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamadoc

Does it work? Sure it does if you work it. So, who has the final word? GOD, and He says we are to OBEY the law of the land and until the founders quit talking and start proving that Elite is legal as a Christian you cannot participate. Please understand I am all for giving but doing it Elite's way landed me in jail!!!!

PappaDoc

Pappa:

1. Pyramid Schemes are illegal, but Elite Activity has NOT been proven to be one.
If it were, it would have already been SHUT DOWN, and we would not be having this discussion. So, until a federal judge says the Elite Activity is illegal and all apeals have been exhausted, participants ARE obeying the law of the land!

2. Papa, you stated earlier that you did things as Tim Hunt did things. Now is that Elite's way or Tim Hunt's way??? You did not do things Elite's way, and that is why you are the ONLY person in the entire World out of over 200,000 participants to ever be arrested for ALLEGEDLY participating in Elite. If you are truly a follower of God's commandments, I suggest you reread #9. If you tell the whole truth, you must admit that -- YOU DID NOT DO THINGS ELITE's WAY!

truefactology · #23 07-18-2005, 06:14 PM

And so it begins....

************************************************** ********
Posted on Sun, Jul. 17, 2005

Web operators deny pyramid scheme

Associated Press

DANVILLE
Operators of an online club disputed in court the state attorney general's contention that their Web site is a scam.

Attorney General Steve Carter says Elite Activity is an illegal pyramid scheme that requires participants to give a $100 gift, pay a $16 Web fee and recruit members.

The group's operators contend it is a charitable club whose members give money to each other to share their blessings.

"What is the difference between giving money freely and getting blessed?" Delmar Neely of Mooresville asked Friday during a hearing in Hendricks Superior Court.

Judge Robert W. Freese previously had ordered Neely and the other organizers Michael Roller, Plainfield; Harvey Dockstader Jr., Colorado City, Ariz.; and Dataport, a software company that hosts the site ï¿½ to stop promoting Elite Activity.

Carter on Friday said the group was violating the order by continuing to run the Web site, www.eliteactivity.tv, and asked Freese to find the group in contempt of court.

Freese said he would rule this week.

Dockstader, Neely and Roller represented themselves in court Friday. They said they did not know how many people have joined the club or how much money it has collected.

Roller said he has received more than $10,000 through the club.
************************************************** *******

We may have to start a new thread depending on how Judge Freese rules. :) Whether he rules for or against the Elite Activity, this saga will probably not be over. Judge Freese is a state judge for the great State of Indiana. He is NOT a federal judge. If (Indiana AG) Steve Carter loses, he will probably appeal. As will I expect (hope) Harvey and company will do the same if Elite loses.

AGAIN. Elite Activity is not ILLEGAL until all court proceedings are complete, and a FEDERAL ruling body says it is indeed illegal. Until that time, it will remain legal (or indispute).

letspreadtheword · #24 07-19-2005, 06:04 PM

Truefactology you are so funny. You have me laughing at No.2 (Tim Hunt)

truefactology · #25 07-21-2005, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truefactology

And so it begins....

We may have to start a new thread depending on how Judge Freese rules. :) Whether he rules for or against the Elite Activity, this saga will probably not be over. Judge Freese is a state judge for the great State of Indiana. He is NOT a federal judge. If (Indiana AG) Steve Carter loses, he will probably appeal. As will I expect (hope) Harvey and company will do the same if Elite loses.

AGAIN. Elite Activity is not ILLEGAL until all court proceedings are complete, and a FEDERAL ruling body says it is indeed illegal. Until that time, it will remain legal (or indispute).

The ruling is in... Elite Activity is TEMPORARILY barred from being active in the state of Indiana. Now the ball is in Harvey (the founders) court. Will they defend their constiutional rights? In the article below, there is reference to a pre-trial conference. This means there WILL be a trial. The Boy Scouts had to do it, and now Elite. Let's see how far this goes... As I mentioned in the quote above -- This won't be over until all legal actions have been exhausted... We shall see...

Judge orders end of scheme
Internet 'belief system' meant paying money

By Tania E. Lopez
tania.e.lopez@indystar.com

A Hendricks County judge declared Wednesday that Internet-based Elite Activity is a pyramid scheme and ordered the area men operating it to shut down.

According to the order that Hendricks Superior Court Judge Robert Freese issued, Michael Roller, Plainfield; Delmar Neely, Mooresville; Harvey Dockstader Jr., Colorado City, Ariz.; and Dataport Inc. are barred from operating or promoting the club.

Freese barred the group from destroying documents tied to Elite Activity, pending a pretrial conference.

"What something is called is not what matters. What matters is what truly is," read the order.

Attorney General Steve Carter had argued that Elite Activity is an illegal pyramid scheme that requires participants to give a $100 gift, pay a $16 Web fee and recruit members.

In June, Carter's office sought a temporary restraining order to stop Elite Activity from promoting itself and recruiting.

Dockstader, Roller and Neely appeared in court last week without an attorney, acting in their own defense.

They told Freese that members give money to each other to "share their blessings" and that Elite Activity is a belief system, not a scam.

To advance to another level, Elite Activity members are required to pay $250 to another participant.

The goal, according to the order, is for participants to "reap as much money as they can from future participants."

Carter's office also claimed Elite Activity continued operating in violation of the previous court order and sought to have Elite Activity found in contempt of court. Freese has not ruled on that request.

The African · #26 07-23-2005, 12:39 AM

When you talk about Elite, kindly don't sqeeze it to the states in USA alone, this activity has gone beyond US bounderies and it is blessing us the Africans. I am a participant from Kenya and I can assure you that this is what Africa needs. Our culture is full of gifting in various ceremonies like circumcision, weddings etc and this has gone on for ages! When we are invited to share outr gifts in these ceremonies, we are allowed to come with as many other guests (invitees) as possible to participate in these ceremonies.
In short, I am trying to say that this is in accordance to our culture only that it is now computerised. There is alot going around here where people share monetary gift with each other. Here we call it "Chama", "Nyoluoro" or "Mary Go Round"
Don't "Americanise" gifting since the whole world does not live by the American constitution (I wonder why Lawyers disagree on what is conspicously the rights of humanity) Kenya has its own constitution that elaborately allows gifting. The next time youissue a comment of the Elite Activity, kindly have this at the back of your mind "It is not an American affair - this is a Universal issue" :)

dr poormouth · #27 07-23-2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The African

...
In short, I am trying to say that this is in accordance to our culture only that it is now computerised. There is alot going around here where people share monetary gift with each other. Here we call it "Chama", "Nyoluoro" or "Mary Go Round"
Don't "Americanise" gifting since the whole world does not live by the American constitution ...

http://www.web.net/~iccaf/humanright...nfo/kenyajan01.
htm.
Inter-Church Coalition on Africa
The small scale credit schemes known locally as Nyoluoro have the potential to support orphans and widows but do not do so at the moment, the study revealed.
These schemes give support during funerals and nothing more after the mourning period. The government of Kenya is purportedly targeting such groups for income generating projects to ensure sustainability in orphan-headed households, but such an undertaking is yet to be effected in this particular area.

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...historyid=ad23
Chama Cha Mapinduzi: from AD 1977
From 1965 each part of the union has only one political party, but they are different parties - TANU in Tanganyika and ASP (Afro-Shirazi Party) in Zanzibar. In 1977 they merge as the CCM or Chama Cha Mapinduzi (Revolutionary Party).

I suppose our next poster will be a Native American of the Northwest, The Indian , and will claim that gifting is another form of the potlatch.

letspreadtheword · #28 07-24-2005, 05:43 PM

The next time you issue a comment of the Elite Activity, kindly have this at the back of your mind "It is not an American affair - this is a Universal issue" :)[/quote]

Elite Activity is going to be dominated by internationals. That is pretty obvious.

I don't know about ANYONE, but survival in the future looks very scary to me! That's why I SUPPORT the Elite Activity philosophy. It's not about *****, it's not about the present, it's about the future! People helping people in an ORGANIZED way, with strict protocol to follow.

Just as America, has given hope to many governments around the world, so is Elite Activity giving hope to many individuals around the world.

To whom will the people turn, when those that fought Elite fails them?
I hope americans fighting and supporting the shutting down of the activity, will think LONG and HARD.

I rest my case!

dr poormouth · #29 07-24-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letspreadtheword

It's not about *****, it's not about the present, it's about the future! People helping people in an ORGANIZED way, with strict protocol to follow.

...he loved Big Brother.

George Orwell 1984

The African · #30 07-25-2005, 02:25 AM

I think I have something to tell Dr Poormouth. You see sir / madam you are giving me an impression that you do not know what you are talking about. When I talk about nyoluoro, I do not mean collections for funerals! The collections made at the funerals are known here as "chango". Don't confuse the scam team. Instead of talking about what you are not sure of, why don't you do a serious research and talk the truth! You are also commenting on "chama" on a completely different note! You just google chama on the web and came up with "Chama cha mapinduzi" which is the ruling party of the Republic of Tanzania & is led by President Ben Mkapa who is due to retire by the end of this year. Let me tel you the real meaning of "chama". It means "party" and has nothing to do with overthrowing (mapinduzi). By the way these are swahili terms and I am a swahili speaker. Chama in the context of giving is used to refer to rotational giving where many people give to one when his or her turn comes thereby giving the receiver some financial milestone which he couldnt have had were it not for the "many giving to one" (Chama).
In Africa, we understand Elite in that context and everybody is saying "This is what I have been waiting for" Since Elite Activity is automated, many Africans will have an urge of learning computers hence having access to lots of information that were hidden on the net. We can nolonger rely on the politically bent media for information. Elite is not just about giving & receiving to us but a way of life that will enable us to adventure into the secrets paths of life. The phylosophy of giving is part and parcel of our culture..
What is wrong if we, Africans are deliberated from financial oppression by the west? Elite is helping us identify our core values and at the same time making us know that we can prosper from any corner of the world. We nolonger need to cry for VISAS and the likes in search of greener pastures since Elite has brought prosperity at our door steps. In short, I would advice you not to speak of what you have not tasted. I have invited participants from Uganda, Algeria, Tanzania, Ghana etc and none has ever complained!

CPA4 · #31 07-25-2005, 04:07 AM

I have a way to determine if this is a Scam or real.

I will agree to be the test subject. Since all the reply on here to debunk the scam agruement, are it is giving and there is nothing wrong or illegal about giving, here is what I suggest.

I will be willing to accept gifts. I will tell you on the front end that 50% of what I receive will be given to my local church. We are a bible believing church which supports several public service type ministries. I will not be redirecting the money back to any individual, but to my church.

But, since this is not a pryamid scheme, that should not matter. It is all about sharing wealth with those who are less fortunate. I will provide everyone who gives to me with a notarized reciept showing where thier money went. If the giver would like, I will direct 50% of my receipts to a charity of their choice, again with a notorized receipt.

Please contact me via private message and I will give you my PO box to send the checks too. Time to put your non pryamid scheme money where you mouth is.

sojustask · #32 07-25-2005, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letspreadtheword

And for Elite bashers and naysayers, how many unemployed or single parents, have you helped? How many homes have you stopped from being foreclosed? How many cars have you stopped from being repossessed? How many people have you helped get out of debt? How many people have you helped start their own business? Participants of Elite are doing all of that! Can you say the same thing?

Leave them alone, let them continue to help people until the government says they can't!

Do these unemployed and single parents have to contribute to the gifting scam in order to receive help? OR are they just helped? If one must pay with the expectation of being helped out financially, then it's illegal, it is not biblically principled either. IF you want a picture of real christian doctrine being practiced, I recommend studying the Amish and Mennonites. Their communities all work together, they help each other, no one goes hungry or loses the farm. God blesses that.

He may allow Elite to ride for awhile, as a false prophet and teacher, but it won't last indefinitely if it's false teaching.

Lady Mod

sojustask · #33 07-25-2005, 06:58 AM

http://www.programreview.com/eliteactivity.html

Elite Activity
A representative from elite activity called me this month and tried to recruit me into his program. The way he described the company, elite activity, it sounded exactly like a gifting program.

As you may know from my review on gifting programs, I don't like them. I've seen so many of my students get ripped-off and scammed by gifting programs that I know they are a bad thing.

Plus I called the F.T.C. myself to ask if gifting programs are even legal and they told me they were not legal. The F.T.C. told me about some very frightening legal battles they've had with the peopel who run gifting programs. And trust, me, the gifting people lost.

Worst of all, if you're in a gifting program you can be sued by all the people who sign up under you. I know for fact that many people in gifting programs have been sued and lost. I would not recommend elite activity or any other such get-rich-quick-scheme. Elite activity is probably being watched by the FTC right now as we speak.

http://www.dallas.bbb.org/news_20040819.html

Dallas, TX, August 19, 2004 - Gifting schemes known as Elite Activity, Elite Activities, Jacob's Ladder, and other names are recruiting now in several states and could target Texas next, warns the Better Business Bureau serving Dallas and Northeast Texas.

"Despite claims that the schemes are legal, gifting schemes are nothing more than illegal pyramid schemes," said Jay Newman, President of the BBB in Dallas. "Participants stand to lose thousands of dollars, and promoters could be subject to prosecution."

Gifting schemes spread when individuals invite friends to participate, sometimes approaching fellow church or club members. Elite Activity claims: "Give a one time Gift of $100, and Receive $800, $2,000, $4,000, $8,000, $16,000, $32,000, and $48,000 in Gifts - Over and over Again!!!" The problem is, gifting clubs must continually recruit ever-increasing numbers of members to survive. When the supply of people runs out, the pyramid collapses, and most people at the bottom of the pyramid lose their money.

As Elite Activities and other gifting schemes have spread across the country in the last few months, Better Business Bureaus and state Attorneys General have issued warnings:

The BBB in Myrtle Beach, SC, cautioned in March: "Don't let biblical quotes and the false representation of being a charity fool you into believing you can gain monetary success through an Elite Activity."

In July, the BBB in Cincinnati said: "The people at the top levels of the gifting club stand to make a lot of money and go to great lengths to disguise the consequences and imminent failure of the system."

The Arkansas Attorney General warned this month: "The clubs collapse, and most members who paid to join the clubs never receive the financial 'gift' they expected, and lose everything they paid to join the club … To create an aura of respectability or benevolence the clubs may be called 'investment clubs' or 'giving clubs' and have attractive names such as 'The Friendship Investment Club', 'Freedom Club', 'A Gift Network', 'Season of Sharing', 'The Spirit of Giving' or one that is currently going around Arkansas, 'The Last Program'."

The South Dakota Attorney General said in July that the current gifting schemes are similar to ones that swept through the state in 2000 - when 34 people, including some business owners and government officials, were prosecuted for their roles in the scam.

For those who are wondering how to recognize a pyramid scheme, the Texas Attorney General states: "Under the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act, you may not promote a pyramid promotional scheme. A pyramid promotional scheme is a plan or operation by which a person gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from a person's introduction of other persons to participate in the plan or operation, rather than from the sale of a product by a person introduced into the plan or operation."

http://www.wane.com/global/story.asp...ientType=Print

Consumer Report: Elite Activity
April 14, 2005, 10:00 PM

The number of consumer complaints for pyramid schemes and gifting clubs has increased. In each of the last 3 years. That's why Indiana's Attorney General is warning about a new gifting club in our state: it's called "Elite Activities."

Carter says solicitations by Elite Activities are increasing across indiana. It targets those in minority churches because they're giving people by nature.

The AG's office says the first sign that something is not right is on Elite Activities website. It says public servants and media are not allowed in. The reason, it gives: it only wants people with a motivation of charity on the website. How that so-called charity works, you come in at head start level by giving $100 to charity. You progress to different levels of the pyramid by convincing people to donate to the gifting club. As they donate you get money back. Ultimately you can work your way up to masters level where you can earn up to $48,000.

Attorney General Carter says this pyramid scheme is illegal and that no one should participate.

"This is a bit of a difficult one because people are breaking the law by participating so if they contact us and lets us know they've done that, then they're putting themselves in a little bit of legal risk but of course were trying to get the big picture. We're not going to harm those trying to help with the investigation."

If you have any information on this scam you can contact the AG'ls office at ww.in.gov/attorneygeneral. Elite activities uses other names like "Prosper Forever" and "Jacobs Letter."

Its important to remember that pyramid schemes are illegal, so don't give in to pressure when family or friends ask you to join.

If you've been a victim of scam or fraud, Justin wants to hear from you: you can reach him at

justin.robinson@wane.com.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10358

BBB warning consumers of new pyramid scheme
The Tullahoma News, USA
Feb. 3, 2005
Beth Furbush, Better Business Bureau
www.zwire.com
• More news articles on Fraud

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ReligionNewsBlog.com • Item 10358 • Posted: 2005-02-03 21:22:12
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MURFREESBORO - Your Better Business Bureau is monitoring a rise in gifting clubs, groups that manage to convince newcomers that they will receive thousands of dollars if they make a "gift" to participate in a private, invitation-only network.

The clubs go by various names. In prior years, groups were organized under the names of The Airplane, Friends Helping Friends, The Pit Stop and the Original Dinner Club. Some of today's clubs call themselves Elite Activity, Jacobs Ladder and Women's Gifting.

The most active pyramid scheme in Middle Tennessee is Elite Activities www.eliteactivity.tv. Materials circulated by the scheme promoter show that a fee is NEVER required for participating in the activity itself. However, in other sections of the literature, the program requires a gift of $100; $45 for three months of web site tracking and support; and $20 for a debit card.
Áffinity Fraud' Religion-based scams take Lord's name in gain

Con artists preying on faithful

Investment frauds using religion on the rise, state regulators warn

Example: One of America's largest affinity fraud cases (Reed Slatkin)

How To Avoid Investment Scams That Target Groups

The groups target those with an affinity - such as women's clubs, community groups, church congregations, social clubs and special interest groups. Participants are invited to attend private meetings or visit "private" web site. While invitees initially may not be asked to pay any money up-front, eventually participants are asked to contribute anywhere from $100-$5,000.

The philosophy of charitable giving is often used to draw people in. Organizers may cloak their schemes in religious term.s, using the love of God as a sales pitch or employing feel-good words like renewal celebrations.

Some clubs are touted as fund-raisers for a good cause or as an em*****ment program to help people help themselves. However, gifting clubs are nothing more than pyramid schemes that separate people from their money.

There are typically "levels" of participation that you can rise to as you and your recruits bring in more players. Players who get in early, walk away "winners." However, experience shows that such pyramids always collapse and latecomers lose their entire investments.

Continued in next post:

sojustask · #34 07-25-2005, 07:06 AM

By definition, the difference between a pyramid scheme and a multi-level marketing program is:

Pyramid Scheme - The majority of money earned is through the recruitment of individuals into a program. Pyramid Schemes are illegal.

Multi-Level Marketing Program - The majority of money earned is through the sale of a product or service.

The club organizers advise recruits that the operation is legal; it is not. Almost every state has laws prohibiting pyramid schemes and/or assessing penalties on those who participate.

If you are approached to join such a club, the BBB advises you to ask yourself three questions:

* Do I have to make an "investment" or give money to get the right to recruit others into the program?

* When I recruit another person into the program, will I receive what the law calls "consideration" (that usually means money) as a result?

* Will the person I recruit have to make an "investment" or give money to get the right to recruit and receive "consideration" for getting other people to join?

If the answers are "yes," steer clear of the scheme. Never buckle under to high-press sales pitches, even when they come from the mouth of a trusted friend, co-worker, neighbor or church member.

http://ag.ky.gov/news/2004rel/Elite.htm

Stumbo says quick money club is an illegal pyramid

FRANKFORT, KY (Wednesday, December 22, 2004) - Attorney General Greg Stumbo announced today that an ongoing investigation conducted by his Consumer Protection Division has found that an illegal “gifting” program known as “Elite Activity” is operating in Lexington and Louisville. Kentuckians are advised to avoid promotion and/or participation in this program.

Stumbo’s office was alerted by several churches and consumers who called the office questioning whether the recruitment solicitations being made by individuals for them to join and promote the activities of Elite Activity was asking them to participate in a pyramid scheme. An ongoing investigation verified that the program is in fact a pyramid scheme, according to Kentucky’s Consumer Protection laws. The Lexington and Louisville scheme is virtually identical to many so called “gifting clubs” being solicited within Kentucky and around the country. These so-called gifting clubs are not charitable in nature because each prospective participant has an expectation of return on their initial investment. A pyramid promotional plan is defined by law as a plan or operation by which a person gives consideration (something of value like money) for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from a person’s introduction of other people to participate in the plan or operation, instead of from the sale of a product or service by the person introduced into the plan or operation.

This Elite Activity scheme works like this: People are solicited to invite only friends that they know to invest $100 to get into the alleged “gifting” program. People are promised a payoff of up to $48,000 in gifting contributions to be paid by others participating in multiple gifting programs. The scheme spreads when individuals invite friends, and in this case, fellow church members to enroll in the program. Participants are told that it is not an illegal pyramid but in fact that an attorney had researched the law and found the plan to be a legitimate gifting club under federal tax laws. According to the Attorney General’s office, these representations are not true. Under Kentucky’s law, you may not promote or participate in a pyramid promotional scheme. Not only does this conduct violate the Consumer protection Act but each person involved could be convicted of a Class C felony which carries a penalty of 5 to 10 years in prison.

“The participants are required to recruit at least two people each to qualify for monetary payoffs in the program, initial consideration is paid by each participant and no product or service is sold to qualify for payout of money. Clearly, each element of proof required to demonstrate that the Elite Activity program is an illegal pyramid is present,” said Stumbo.

Stumbo has concluded that this and similar programs are doomed to fail leaving hundreds of investors no return and a loss of any money invested. The Attorney General’s Office has gone to court to halt similar programs. This program and those who choose to participate in it will be treated no different according to the Attorney General.

People who encounter others promoting the Elite Activity scheme or other illegal activities may contact the Attorney General’s Consumer Protection Division at 888-432-9257.

http://www.spokane.bbb.org/alerts/al...586&newstype=1

Elite Activity a Pyramid Scheme
Date: February 11, 2005

Elite Activity a Pyramid Scheme:
If You Play, You'll End Up Paying

Spokane, WA - February 11, 2005 - Gifting schemes known as Elite Activity, Elite Activities, Jacob's Ladder and other names are recruiting now in several states, warns the Better Business Bureau Serving Eastern Washington, North Idaho & Montana. Inquiries are coming into TheLocalBBB offices from Central Washington regarding such activities, especially for the scheme called Elite Activity.

Despite claims from "participants" and "promoters" that the schemes are NOT pyramid schemes but are "reverse pyramids" and are legal, reverse pyramids and gifting schemes are nothing more than illegal pyramid schemes. Participants stand to lose thousands of dollars, and promoters could be subject to prosecution...

How do you recognize a pyramid scheme? A pyramid promotional scheme is a plan or operation by which a person gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from a person's introduction of other persons to participate in the plan or operation, rather than from the sale of a product by a person introduced into the plan or operation.

Anyone who wants confirmation whether a gifting club - by whatever name - is a pyramid scheme should review the program with an attorney who is familiar with consumer law.

The Better Business Bureau and the Federal Trade Commission suggest that anyone who is approached to join a gifting scheme should: *Consider that a legitimate gift has no strings attached *Avoid being misled into thinking a gifting club is legitimate because the members say they consider their payments a gift and expect nothing in return. This is an attempt to make an illegal transaction look legal *Be wary of success stories or testimonials of tremendous payoffs. Very few members of illegal gifting clubs or pyramid schemes ever receive any money *Take your time. Don't buckle under to a high-pressure sales pitch that requires you to join immediately or risk losing out on the opportunity *Remember that pyramid schemes are illegal. Avoid plans that offer commissions based solely on recruiting new members *Don't be swayed by assurances that the scheme has been "approved" or that charities will benefit from the gifting club. Before risking your money, your reputation, and your peace of mind, review the plan with an accountant or an independent attorney who is experienced in consumer law.

If you have lost money to a gifting scheme, contact your local police department or the Consumer Protection Division of your state Attorney General's Office.

http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/Archives2005-2-2.html

ELITE ACTIVITY SCAM HEADS PASTOR FOR JAIL

30 Apr 2005 – The Pastor of Secret Place International Church in Houston has been charged with Promoting a Pyramid Scheme. Members of his church like the idea now that enough of them have lost their money to the Elite Activity gifting scheme. A second Chicago man is being sought by Federal Agents.

***************************************

I think it's pretty safe to say, it's illegal and a scam.

Lady Mod

letspreadtheword · #35 07-25-2005, 10:44 AM

Sojustask, the meaning of the word "scam?" is "A FRAUDULENT money-making scheme at the expense of another person." Elite has not been proven to be fraudulent yet, has it?

You see, people have so scared the hell out of the poor ignorant consumer, by the abuse of the word "scam," that those consumers don't know what to believe anymore. As a result, they continue to languish in confusion, scarcity, poverty and lack. What a tragedy!

What people need these days are solutions to their economic woes, not Press Releases. PR's are not going to stop the creditors from calling, they are not going to put food on the table when their job is taken to low wage countries or pay their insurance when the government say "not qualified" to get benefits, or pay the electricity or ***** bills. Give them solution first, then the fight can go on. So Sojustask, if you have the perfect solution, then with all due respect, please share it because that's the only thing that matters to the hungry man!

You mentioned gifting among the Amish and the Jewish people? (smile) All I can say is hang on, and hope that the internet is around a for a while. You will soon learn more about the different cultures and practices of this "global village."

CPA4 · #36 07-25-2005, 12:56 PM

Sojustask........................why did you overlook my idea?

I liked my idea! Don't you know that the best way to prove it is not a pyramid is to give ME, ME, ME, money.

""What people need these days are solutions to their economic woes, not Press Releases. PR's are not going to stop the creditors from calling, they are not going to put food on the table when their job is taken to low wage countries or pay their insurance when the government say "not qualified" to get benefits, or pay the electricity or ***** bills. Give them solution first, then the fight can go on. So Sojustask, if you have the perfect solution, then with all due respect, please share it because that's the only thing that matters to the hungry man!""

This line of thinking is so far out there that I am amazed this person can actually get on the internet, much less figure out a keyboard in order to type.

If I am reading correctly, they knowly enter a pyramid betting on what I call the "greater fool" theory. As long as there a greater fool than you, you get some money back. At some point, you are the greater fool and the cycle ends. The solution is to quit looking for a get-rich quick scheme. Quit looking for a handout, jobs are everwhere. No, they may not be glamous, but they will keep the electric and ***** running. No, you might not have as nice a house, car, clothes, etc. as you want, but you will have the necessities.

""So Sojustask, if you have the perfect solution, then with all due respect, please share it because that's the only thing that matters to the hungry man!""

If that hungry man has the $250 or whatever necessary to get into this program, he can eat!

cscirpoli · #37 07-25-2005, 01:52 PM

the hungry man should start looking to better himself, as the hungry is where he is because of choices he has made. So if the hungry man does something illegal to feed his family, it is still illegal, he should still pay the crime, as the hungry man is the one who put himself in that situation in the first place. That post isn't about heloing people in need, it's about people in need taking responsibility for the fact that it is their own fault they are in that situation...

sojustask · #38 07-25-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letspreadtheword

Sojustask, the meaning of the word "scam?" is "A FRAUDULENT money-making scheme at the expense of another person." Elite has not been proven to be fraudulent yet, has it?

You see, people have so scared the hell out of the poor ignorant consumer, by the abuse of the word "scam," that those consumers don't know what to believe anymore. As a result, they continue to languish in confusion, scarcity, poverty and lack. What a tragedy!

What people need these days are solutions to their economic woes, not Press Releases. PR's are not going to stop the creditors from calling, they are not going to put food on the table when their job is taken to low wage countries or pay their insurance when the government say "not qualified" to get benefits, or pay the electricity or ***** bills. Give them solution first, then the fight can go on. So Sojustask, if you have the perfect solution, then with all due respect, please share it because that's the only thing that matters to the hungry man!

You mentioned gifting among the Amish and the Jewish people? (smile) All I can say is hang on, and hope that the internet is around a for a while. You will soon learn more about the different cultures and practices of this "global village."

Well you ARE a piece of work. Support illegal pyramid schemes AND encourage people to get into overpriced, questionable Mortgage schemes.

I'm glad I don't look to you for financial advice. I suppose you must be a bail bondsman and you are just setting all these innocent folks up?

The Amish and Mennonite communities (which by the way are not Jewish, put your glasses on) take care of their own. I am friends with some Mennonites nearby, and I may not agree with everything they teach but they do take care of each other AND I've never seen one who was dead broke, in debt up to their eyeballs or miserable. And the main problem with the Amish is the gene pool problems that are catching up to them. They need some New blood.

Solution: Practice self discipline, live within your means and pay down the debt. A good instruction system that I found 4 years ago and have taught and KNOW works can be found here at John M. Cummuta's site: http://www.achievement.com/transformingdebt.htm

Or if you are fearful: Get a free CD here: http://www.transforming-debt-into-we...ntb06l,intb06s

No affiliation, I just listened to his audio program, did the worksheets and applied the principles. It works.

Granted it's not as glamorous as "Illegal Gifting" and making $48,000 by scamming your friends and church members, but it won't land you in jail either.

Lady Mod

Divinity · #39 07-25-2005, 09:41 PM

My, My, My,

Sojas what? Are you Amish? Along with being niave I see you are a bit of a bigot also.

It really is a shame that people will not just admit when they don't understand something.

I keep seeing references to people losing thousands of dollars? Where when? How can you lose thousands of dollars when the only out of pocket expense you give is the initial gift?

Also talk about Pyramids? Well let's see :rolleyes: We have companies that sell ENVIRONMENTALLY SAFE SOAP at exhorbitant prices under the guise of a product with you getting three x three x three x three x three down 14 levels, and you don't make any money till your sixth level down with everyone purchasing these ridiculously priced products every month on what? Oh yes AUTOSHIP. But nooo that's not a pyramid because you have a product in place! Never mind that most of the recruits are not making any money, but sacrificing a good piece of their budget every month to stack this stuff in every nook and crany in their home hoping to get their first three distributors. Oh yes, and it's okay for them to get family members, church members, and anyone who will listen to stop shopping in the grocery stores, and join their club? Then we have the over priced juices! The Matrices! Not to mention the new style pyramid, *****LINES! Oh yes and don't forget the $5.99 bottle of vitamins selling for $80.00 autoship! Yep and the weight loss products! Did I get them all :D

Come on people what's so hard to understand here? How many times have you all given someone a monetary gift? It's your choice to go into your pocket, and give someone money if you want. So if you don't want to don't it's as simple as that!

Illegal? Of course the Governments are going to cry illegal to try to keep all the money coming into their coffers. That's what Governments do isn't it?

I wonder why no one says anything when one can work overtime to try to make ends meet, and the Government takes a whopping 35% of the commisions you make?

I wonder why no one says anything when there are individuals still working for minimum wage 5.25 is it? Boy try living on that with 3 or 4 kids!

I wonder why no one says anything when health insurance is so expensive employers and employees alike cannot afford it? Looks like we all need any kind of health aid out there to try and keep us out of the hospital doesn't it?

Just thinking about all the injustices inflicted on us by the Government on a daily basis makes me ill! Then to hear all the nonsense about my individual choice to give what's left of my money after it's been chopped ten ways to sunday, to whom I want being illegal; is just stone crazy!

I know this, for all those who claim it's so illegal, if someone walked up to you and gave you $5,000.00 you would not turn it down! Well let me rephrase that, if you knew they had a legal right to it you would not turn it down.

You know what? I am going to do what I want to do regardless of what anyone says untill such time as the Courts say I can't, so I really don't know why I am in this conversation!

Divinity

sojustask · #40 07-26-2005, 02:30 AM

You know what amazes me about people like you Divinity? You are so wrapped up in your own self righteousness that you don't care whether those who participate in a program get screwed or thrown in jail or not. The very FACT that this Elite program is being scrutinized by Attorney Generals ALL OVER THE COUNTRY and they are saying it's illegal, is reason enough to steer away from this program and any similar. Should you be brought up on charges, you aren't going to stand a chance. Better save some of that $$$ aside for your legal fees.

Furthermore, I didn't say anyone lost thousands of dollars, that is what the Feds are saying. You stand corrected. However, once a person cycles through these types of programs, unless this one is VASTLY different from the gifting programs I've been invited to in the past, a person CAN reinvest/re-gift in it, therefore it's probably possible to lose thousands that way. And it was a general statement that was made and not one specifically aimed at Elite. There are gifting programs where you can "gift" up to $5,000 or more.

And frankly Divinity, I've never given a gift to anyone with the expectation that I would be given one in return. At least not since I was about 7 or 8 years old. Benevolent you are not. If you weren't hoping for a gain of up to $48,000 in return for your participation in the scam, you wouldn't be in it or pushing it so hard. I dare say, no one in that program was offered even $500 dollars who has not already sent their gift in first. You aren't out there looking for those desperate individuals who only make minimum wage and raising 3-4 kids on it. You are looking for individuals who can't live within their means who can scrape together enough money to risk gifting (investing, which is what it really is) in the program so that you will keep the cycle going lest the program burn itself out. Try not insulting the people's intelligence who are reading this any further with your hype and drivel.

No product, no legitimacy. Programs which offer products and build downlines are not necessarily scams. Maybe over priced in their product line, but they do offer a product in return for your money. Therefore, if they are busted, they are busted on different matters concerning the company and not because their program did not fall under the guidelines of legitimacy.

I don't know why you bother announcing to the world you are a thoughtless crook either and without conscience. Perhaps you will do us all a favor and spare us any further attempts to legitimaze or justify this ILLEGAL scam.

Lady Mod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinity

My, My, My,

It really is a shame that people will not just admit when they don't understand something.

I keep seeing references to people losing thousands of dollars? Where when? How can you lose thousands of dollars when the only out of pocket expense you give is the initial gift?

Also talk about Pyramids? Well let's see :rolleyes: We have companies that sell ENVIRONMENTALLY SAFE SOAP at exhorbitant prices under the guise of a product with you getting three x three x three x three x three down 14 levels, and you don't make any money till your sixth level down with everyone purchasing these ridiculously priced products every month on what? Oh yes AUTOSHIP. But nooo that's not a pyramid because you have a product in place! Never mind that most of the recruits are not making any money, but sacrificing a good piece of their budget every month to stack this stuff in every nook and crany in their home hoping to get their first three distributors. Oh yes, and it's okay for them to get family members, church members, and anyone who will listen to stop shopping in the grocery stores, and join their club? Then we have the over priced juices! The Matrices! Not to mention the new style pyramid, *****LINES! Oh yes and don't forget the $5.99 bottle of vitamins selling for $80.00 autoship! Yep and the weight loss products! Did I get them all :D

Come on people what's so hard to understand here? How many times have you all given someone a monetary gift? It's your choice to go into your pocket, and give someone money if you want. So if you don't want to don't it's as simple as that!

Illegal? Of course the Governments are going to cry illegal to try to keep all the money coming into their coffers. That's what Governments do isn't it?

I wonder why no one says anything when one can work overtime to try to make ends meet, and the Government takes a whopping 35% of the commisions you make?

I wonder why no one says anything when there are individuals still working for minimum wage 5.25 is it? Boy try living on that with 3 or 4 kids!

I wonder why no one says anything when health insurance is so expensive employers and employees alike cannot afford it? Looks like we all need any kind of health aid out there to try and keep us out of the hospital doesn't it?

Just thinking about all the injustices inflicted on us by the Government on a daily basis makes me ill! Then to hear all the nonsense about my individual choice to give what's left of my money after it's been chopped ten ways to sunday, to whom I want being illegal; is just stone crazy!

I know this, for all those who claim it's so illegal, if someone walked up to you and gave you $5,000.00 you would not turn it down! Well let me rephrase that, if you knew they had a legal right to it you would not turn it down.

You know what? I am going to do what I want to do regardless of what anyone says untill such time as the Courts say I can't, so I really don't know why I am in this conversation!

Divinity

sojustask · #41 07-26-2005, 03:03 AM

And no, I am not Amish. The Amish do not use electricity or computers. And the info I got on them about the gene pool was in an interview they had with one of the news programs a few weeks back. Can't remember which one it was on, I don't as a rule watch television but I was interested in the story. I only watched it as there were storms in the area and the television was on in case the local stations broke in with weather updates. That particular program aired that night. What I said was factual, not fiction. Though it's only my opinion they need new blood, as in new members to bring new life to the gene pool and any rancher can tell you that is how it's done. People are no different in that respect than animals.

Lady Mod

CPA4 · #42 07-26-2005, 05:33 AM

Sojust....your killing me. My idea would work if you would just encourage people to give to me!!!

Seriously, does anyone here think a "gift" is the same thing as an "investment." I give Sojust $100 expecting her to tell her friends so I can get back $200 is not a gift to her!! Its not an act of charity. An act of charity is giving $100 to the man on the street, who is hungry, homeless, etc. and not expecting to get anything in return!!

In my opinion, guess which action God will be receptive of. My selfish giving or my selfless giving? Selfish, expecting more money back than I gave or selfless, helping my fellow man.

You people amaze me!

sojustask · #43 07-26-2005, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPA4

Sojust....your killing me. My idea would work if you would just encourage people to give to me!!!

LOL, and you crack me up. OK, I encourage everyone who wants to "gift" money to send it to CPA4. ;)

Namaste'

Lady Mod

CPA4 · #44 07-26-2005, 09:12 AM

Come on people, I have been blessed by Sojust as a viable vessel to accept your gifts.

Just a reminder, I ain't sending none of my "gifts" back to anyone individual. Only fully recognized IRS filing 501(c)(3) organizations.

But remember, I will be helping those less fortunate, the hungry, the homless, the down on their luck. I just won't be sending any money back into the system.

letspreadtheword · #45 07-26-2005, 10:08 AM

Sojustask: Bite your tongue.

"Programs which offer products and build downlines are not necessarily scams."

Brixdale is a legitimate company offering a service for a fee. That fee is charged AFTER they've performed their service, so according to you, what are they?

Dear, just let it go. You are tripping!

By your own admission, you have been invited to other gifting programs. But have you been invited to Elite? Is it now safe to admit that your impression about Elite is based on your experience with other gifting programs and inaccurate Press Releases? I have looked at the Press Releases floating around the internet, sorry to say, that not ONE that have come out, and all Elite participants see that there are inaccuracies.

sojustask · #46 07-26-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letspreadtheword

Sojustask: Bite your tongue.

"Programs which offer products and build downlines are not necessarily scams."

Brixdale is a legitimate company offering a service for a fee. That fee is charged AFTER they've performed their service, so according to you, what are they?

Dear, just let it go. You are tripping!

By your own admission, you have been invited to other gifting programs. But have you been invited to Elite? Is it now safe to admit that your impression about Elite is based on your experience with other gifting programs and inaccurate Press Releases? I have looked at the Press Releases floating around the internet, sorry to say, that not ONE that have come out, and all Elite participants see that there are inaccuracies.

Brixdale's service is an aside from the marketing end of the program. They don't market their service, they are marketing the money making opportunity. (Similar to Elite in the respect that to make money one must participate and recruit, they can't make money on product alone, to make money they MUST recruit/refer others.)
The opportunity is what is hyped and pushed on the Brixdale calls. I've been on several. Start asking them questions about their service and the interest bearing accounts they claim to use in order to pay on the points system and watch how fast they clam up and change the subject. Nope, I am not tripping up but nice try.

I read the Elite website, I based my opinions on what I read in their information. I see very little difference other than they cloak it in "christianity".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite website

The ELITE ACTIVITY Philosophy will help you to meet others with whom you share an earnest belief in People Helping People. If you believe in the Golden Rule, surely there can be no purer expression of it than to unconditionally give a monetary gift freely to another human being. To witness such an expression of caring compels THE ELITE ACTIVITY to acknowledge this selfless act. Because you are Big of Heart and you are willing to help a stranger in need, you have made a difference in the world. Only good things can happen through kindhearted people finding each other and meeting in bigger and bigger numbers.

If your motivation for visiting this site is any other than charity and unconditional giving, you are NOT PERMITTED to view any of the contents of this site even if you know a password or if someone has invited you; this is a PRIVATE site.

Somehow I find it VERY hard to believe given the marketing strategies that abound here that those participating are actually doing this just to help others in need. IF that were the case, they could find those people in their own communities to help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite website

If you are interested in making a profit, you do not qualify for participation in THE ELITE ACTIVITY.

This I'm afraid is what those that support it here are all about. They contradict their own agreement with the company. If one is recruiting people into the program by saying that their gift can make them up to $48,000 that person is not only engaged in an illegal Ponzi BUT they are a hypocrite.
They are not subscribing to the claims of the program they agreed to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by law office of Henry W. Curtis Jr.

It is founded on a higher law...God's law, and embraces all goodly principles including truth, honesty, integrity, and abundance! God's law pertaining to gifting is found in Luke 6:38, "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

Again, they are a hypocrite, that principle works outside a program. But that is not what is being pushed is it? No, what is being advertised is a way to make up to $48,000.00 by participating in a gifting program.

The people participating are not doing so in the biblical sense. Therefore, God will judge them eventually. God does the blessing, not Elite. This is a very elaborate scam people are getting sucked into. It's amazing but the more outwardly "religious" a person is, the easier they fall for this kind of scam.

Cloak it however you wish, people are not doing this as giving a gift but as a business:

Quote:

Originally Posted by testimonials Elite website

Read what some of our participants are saying about this lucrative Activity. Something this *****ful must be Elite!

During my 82 years on this old earth I have been associated with a lot of home based businesses but none of them comparable to this wonderful activity. It is the most exciting and rewarding activity that I have ever been associated with. I'm having fun laughing all the way to the bank.

Strangers become friends as we help one another and explore creative ways to make the Activity that is so Elite work for everyone who can see it and put some ****** into it.

We were invited in to the activity and started receiving in just 3 days! We invited some people that we knew and started a cold market campaign that has helped us invite over 100 people in less than 90 days!We have already received THOUSANDS of dollars!!! Anyone can make this work!

Yep, those are surely testimonials from people only looking to help others out with a benevolent, no strings attached gift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite website

FACT: Through the ***** of gifting the invitation to 2 like-minded individuals, giving a 1-time unconditional cash gift out-of-pocket, and believing in the law of abundance, tens of thousands of participants in this activity: Receive personal fulfillment and financial abundance - -
Over and over again!!

That's what is known as an Aussie two up in the business. The funds move up the pyramid. It's UNCONDITIONAL in nature because it's NON-REFUNDABLE in reality. And I'll bet that if you do not sponser you do not get gifts either.

Truly amazing,

Lady Mod

letspreadtheword · #47 07-26-2005, 11:43 AM

Sojustask: This was what I was going to post. Again, I make my point and move on. Don't have time.

Bite your tongue!

"Programs which offer products and build downlines are not NECESSARILY scams."

Brixdale is a legitimate company offering a service for a fee. That fee is charged AFTER they've performed their service, so according to you, what are they?

Dear, just let it go. You are tripping!

By your own admission, you have been invited to other gifting programs. But have you been invited to Elite? Is it now safe for you to admit that your impression about Elite was all the while based on assumption and inaccurate Press Releases? I have looked at the Press Releases. They are all classifying the activity with other gifting programs, and we expect it to be so until the differences are outlined in a court of law.

In Elite Activity, GREED is discouraged. It is not the usual "me, myself and I-I'm gonna-get-rich-quick-and-run." It is a community of people that believe in giving - PERIOD! For them, it's a way of life. They plan to do so till they die. It is civil to give to each other in an organized and civilized fashion. It is civil to encourage people to tithe to their respective churches or donate to their respective charities when they get blessed. I don't know what is illegal about giving and sharing by consensual adults. Hopefully, that will be determined in a court of law (which looks imminent) in the coming days, months or year/s, and we shall all move on with our lives and be happy.

EVERY religious belief teaches that you reap what you sow. So the human mind have been programmed for expectation. The law of reciprocity is as real as the sun. It is nature. You can't bend it, you can't twist it, and certainly, you can't eradicate it. Saying you give gifts, and never expect anything from anyone back is just plain hypocritical and trying to save face. If you spend your life giving to people and no one ever gives back to you, then you need to go get help. Maybe a trained psychologist will explain it better. Whether in business, on the job, in gifting, in the church, or whatever capacity you find yourself, expectation is part of human nature.

People like you will never be satisfied, unless things are done your way.

Gifting is a way of life for those who believe in the philosophy. It is not an American issue, it is a universal belief, embraced by others around the world. It was there before you and I came, it is going to be there when you and I say leave.

P.S. To your last post with regards to Brixdale, all I can say is:

Even promoting Walmart these days have become a money-making opportunity.

You just don't want to admit that you are wrong in some of your assumptions.

sojustask · #48 07-26-2005, 03:08 PM

Believe what you want both are scams. If not, then I'm wrong. The odds are in my favor that I'm not wrong. But if it gives you peace to believe the rhetoric, so be it. It's your house, your conscience and if you are arrested later for participating in a gifting program before you pull out, you'll be doing the time not me. However, as you said you will reap what you sow. Karma has a way of catching up to you when you least expect it. What you say about giving is true, gifting does not come under that umbrella. But that will catch up to you someday too.

Things don't need to be done my way sir, I'm happy if it's just done lawfully. Elite is an illegal program. Until they stand up to the test of a courtroom, they will continue to be considered an illegal scheme. But hey, maybe you will be their first test case. Hope you got your "ducks in a row".

As far as Brixdale goes, it ain't what it use to be and has yet to prove itself as a viable mortgage elimination program as it originally claimed it was.

Lady Mod

truefactology · #49 07-26-2005, 07:09 PM

Sojustask,

I am going to assume that you are trying to do a public service by vigorously defending your position. Also, my assumption is based on you being a moderator on a site dedicated to sharing information so that would be victims can avoid being victimized. If my assumption is correct, I commend your efforts.

However, as far as this subject goes, I think you can use a little lesson regarding Vision...

1. Notice this quote "...complaint filed by P&G against Amway in a Texas federal district court, alleging, among other things, that Amway operates as an illegal pyramid scheme."

This was just one accuser. Many AGs (no Internet back then) also had the opinion that Amway was an illegal pyramid scheme.

Point: Just because "prominent" individuals or entities have a legal OPINION about something doesn't make it LAW. The opinion only becomes the law of the land after federal ruling bodies (which can include 12 jurors of the defendant's peers) say it is Illegal or Legal.

2. You can post all the opinions and quotes you want, but none of them make Elite illegal. Until www.eliteactivity.tv is no longer running, guess what? It isn't illegal in the eyes of the Federal government.

3. Elite's Attorney is registered with the state bar of Texas. The Elite legal team (having vision), are seeing things materialize as they have planned. Whether it be the case in Indiana or some other area of the country, a case WILL make it to the federal level, and Attorney Curtis is confident that (as with Amway) no Federal ruling body (especially 12 objective jurors), once clearly explained the workings of the Elite software and philosophy will rule against this "private" activity. When the extremely long list of individuals fill the court room testifying on all the wonderful things Elite has done for them, we will all see how 12 of our peers will be swayed by the ***** of this wonderful activity. And when the state brings forth its weak "short list" of witnesses who say they have been scammed, we will see how easily those 12 peers see through their lies.

4. Considering the present economic outlook for middle class and lower America, I think the state will be hard-pressed to find any juror that will rule against Elite.

5. Just as Amway was villainized in the past but was able to triumph, so will Elite... Lady Mod, you are no different than the naysayers that KNEW Amway was an illegal pyramid scheme. They were all WRONG!!

6. If you had vision, you would see that the "ducks are lining up"... We will all just have to wait and see...

p.s. I noticed some of your Elite quotes cannot be found anywhere on the official website. Please do not purposely confuse others by using this tactic. If it did not come from the official website, it cannot be expressly considered sanctioned by the Elite Activity. Those 12 jurors will not see these quotes, as they will be inadmissible. Keep it clean why don't you...

p.p.s. You wrote "And I'll bet that if you do not sponser you do not get gifts either. "

Again, you comment on a subject you know VERY LITTLE ABOUT. Here are the facts (although not widely publicized), you do NOT (I REPEAT, DO NOT), have to invite someone into the activity to receive gifts!!! SURPRISED?? Bet you thought you knew everything about these "schemes". This is one of the bombshells that will be brought out in a court of LAW. There are soooo many people in this activity (over 10 I know off personally) that haven't invited ONE person (and no one invited for them either), BUT still received gifts. HOW you ask? THE LAW OF ABUNDANCE is alive in this activity, and this will be expressed in court. I KNOW this to be true!! RESEARCH THAT one -- why don't you!

sojustask · #50 07-27-2005, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truefactology

Sojustask,

1. Notice this quote "...complaint filed by P&G against Amway in a Texas federal district court, alleging, among other things, that Amway operates as an illegal pyramid scheme."

This was just one accuser. Many AGs (no Internet back then) also had the opinion that Amway was an illegal pyramid scheme.

Point: Just because "prominent" individuals or entities have a legal OPINION about something doesn't make it LAW. The opinion only becomes the law of the land after federal ruling bodies (which can include 12 jurors of the defendant's peers) say it is Illegal or Legal.

2. You can post all the opinions and quotes you want, but none of them make Elite illegal. Until www.eliteactivity.tv is no longer running, guess what? It isn't illegal in the eyes of the Federal government.

Those "opinions" will hold much sway in a court of law. And it will be individuals they go after, will the corporation Elite show up in court for these people?

Why do they claim to have been around since 2001 when the website content and software wasn't copywritten until 2005? Just curious.

Content © 2005 Elite Activity - Software Copyright © 2005 IntWare, Inc.

Quote:

3. Elite's Attorney is registered with the state bar of Texas. The Elite legal team (having vision), are seeing things materialize as they have planned. Whether it be the case in Indiana or some other area of the country, a case WILL make it to the federal level, and Attorney Curtis is confident that (as with Amway) no Federal ruling body (especially 12 objective jurors), once clearly explained the workings of the Elite software and philosophy will rule against this "private" activity. When the extremely long list of individuals fill the court room testifying on all the wonderful things Elite has done for them, we will all see how 12 of our peers will be swayed by the ***** of this wonderful activity. And when the state brings forth its weak "short list" of witnesses who say they have been scammed, we will see how easily those 12 peers see through their lies.

Amway sold soap and vitamins. Elite sells nothing. Why would you even compare the two, they are nothing alike? It might surprise you how many crooked attorneys reside in the state of Texas.

Quote:

4. Considering the present economic outlook for middle class and lower America, I think the state will be hard-pressed to find any juror that will rule against Elite.

Gee, now that is vision. Hopeful and skewed, but vision none the less. Kind of like a thirsty man in the desert under hallucination.

Looks like it won't be long before we start to see just what will happen when these Attorney Generals start to go after Elite: http://wcpo.com/external/dwym/cbc7399.html

Quote:

p.s. I noticed some of your Elite quotes cannot be found anywhere on the official website. Please do not purposely confuse others by using this tactic. If it did not come from the official website, it cannot be expressly considered sanctioned by the Elite Activity. Those 12 jurors will not see these quotes, as they will be inadmissible. Keep it clean why don't you...

http://www.autointerface.com/perpetual.htm << This claims to be Elite Activity gifting program. Requires $100 start and invite 2. Click on the link Private Activity and you will get to the page of quotes. Scroll down the page and you will see bible stuff and more links to attorney opinions.

Quote:

p.p.s. You wrote "And I'll bet that if you do not sponser you do not get gifts either. "

Here are the facts (although not widely publicized), you do NOT (I REPEAT, DO NOT), have to invite someone into the activity to receive gifts!!! SURPRISED?? Bet you thought you knew everything about these "schemes". This is one of the bombshells that will be brought out in a court of LAW. There are soooo many people in this activity (over 10 I know off personally) that haven't invited ONE person (and no one invited for them either), BUT still received gifts. HOW you ask? THE LAW OF ABUNDANCE is alive in this activity, and this will be expressed in court. I KNOW this to be true!! RESEARCH THAT one -- why don't you!

How did they receive gifts if they don't participate? And why is it not "widely publicized" if that is the case. What's to fear if indeed it's set up just to help people in need with no thought of reciprocation? I'll be happy to research "that one" and I'm sure there will be a volunteer on this list or I'll find one who will join the program, do nothing and report back how this "law of abundance" with this program worked for them. Will you be kind enough to send a password to the site to this volunteer? Or does kindness not extend that far?

If this proves to be the case, I know two people I would like to see in such a program once it's proved legal. Though I support them as much as I can financially myself, I can only do so much even with my income. And both people work hard for a living, but one can only go so far on $6.00 and $7.00 an hour.

Either these two places are the same program or they aren't. Which is it? The government calls them the same program.

By the way, I've never made claim to "knowing it all" about this or any other program. I posted what was currently being found about the program and the warnings. If people are going to be attacked because of possible repercussions of this program or any like it, they should at least know up front that is a possibility. When it comes to this program that is a distinct possibility. The purpose of the warning is to allow them to make an intelligent decision about their future, do they wish to gamble on the odds or not. What they choose to do is up to them, I have no problem either way as long as they don't solicit for new members from this board. It's supposed to be a PRIVATE program. Ergo, just don't solicit on a PUBLIC board.

And IF I am wrong, I've always been honest enough to admit it so there is no need to insinuate any other way. There are places within several of the threads where I have made apologies for my errors. This will be no different here if I'm proven wrong in this case as well. It's why I'm considered a fair moderator.

Namaste'

Lady Mod