Primerica Financial Services...BE WARNED AND INFORMED

[toddwj86]

A little bit about me; I'm 21 years old, have gone to three years of college and film school. I'm a self-taught drummer. I consider myself to be highly motivated and an independent learner. In High School I put together and captained a paintball team that traveled around and competed in tournaments. I've made films throughout my life and entirely by my own want and desire. People call me a "Go-Getter" but I consider myself simply to be a person that is passionate about life and wants to live the best one I possibly can. I love to entertain and help people. I enjoy giving back to the community in my own unique way. My dream is to produce my own films in the next ten years. I currently hold my Group 1 Life/Health License and Loan Officer License. Within the next two months I will have my Series 6 and 63 licenses.

I am currently seeking ways to make myself financially independent and wealthy enough to live out my dream. For this reason I was very interested in Primerica Financial Services, as I instantly saw it as an opportunity to live my dreams. I was approached by a close family friend about three months ago and he wanted to tell me about the greatest opportunity since the great Real-Estate boom.

I asked him what it was. He said it involved the Financial Services Industry. I was very interested because;

1. There is a lot of money to be made off of money and the retiring baby-boom generation

2. I have always been interested in the world of financials

3. Investing is something I did not know a thing about and figured I could atleast get a bit of education;

So, I agreed to listen to the presentation about Primerica. Why not? It was only half an hour long.

About an hour and fifteen minutes later the presentation concluded and I was even more interested, but still a bit skeptical. My friend told me that I HAD to meet this big-wig who ran an office in Arlington, TX and averaged $100,000 each month.

Being the skeptic that I am, I decided to do a little bit of independent research. Within twenty-seconds on the internet I came across a site called "Rip-Off Report" which had countless articles and reports of mal-practice, abuse, and deceit. I also saw that there were a ton of articles defending the company. So, I gave it the benefit of the doubt.

I went with my good friend to Arlington and met this multi-lucky-millionaire. He held a position in the company called "SNSD" Senior National Sales Director, which sounds very official. I met him, and sure enough he banks about $100,000 a month, give or take a few thousand. He really is rich beyond imagination.

We began talking and I discovered he needed to make some videos and also needed a tech guy around the office. I am computer literate and have also been involved with video production since I was in the fourth grade. So, I went ahead and paid the $199, joined Primerica, and began working for this multi-lucky-millionaire for $15 an hour.

Three months, 1200 hours, and only $500 in compensation later, I have resigned from Primerica, but not the financial services industry.

Why? Simple. They are deceptive.

Primerica is an MLM company that principally sells life insurance. They, like State Farm, offer financial services, but are extremely limited in the options that they can provide their clients. Primerica must bow to the will of citigroup and can not "shop around" to find the best premiums, interest rates, and
investment programs for their clients.

The bottom line is that Primerica Representatives are salesmen. Most of them don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. Once I started to focus on becoming educated about Primerica's products I had thousands of questions.

My friend, who was my "upline," showed me an example of how Primerica can "do what is right" for the client in regards to mortgages;

Two loans
Both for $100,000
Both at 7%
Both with monthly paymens of $805
One takes 12 years to pay off, the other takes 30 years

I asked how that was possible;

"Simple" he says, "The 30 year is a regular mortgage, and the 12 year is a simple interest loan."

Sounds too good to be true. It is too good to be true.

I asked him where he heard this from;

"I heard it on one of the CD's of a guy who makes 2 million dollars a year in the company."

It must be true right? Wrong.

The formula for simple interest is Principal x Rate x Time.

I did the above example by hand. It's not even possible. There is no way that it is possible. My friend is an idiot. He doesn't know what he is talking about.

I went around the "base shop" asking various people how the above mortgage example is possible. No one could answer my question. I asked them what the interest rates were on the loan products, no one knew anything. I asked them about the Life Insurance policies, about policy rates and fees. No one knew anything. Every question I asked never received an answer. At one point I was told by the multi-lucky-millionaire himself; "You're a smart guy, but you ask too many questions to be successful here."

I could go on forever about my experience with Primerica. So instead of detailing conversations and experiences I will do what no one at my base shop, and no person to ever attack or defend Primerica, has done. I'm going to lay out some FACTS and hopefully these FACTS will ANSWER some QUESTIONS:

1. In the month of February 2007, Primerica recruited 16,500 people at $199 a piece. The $199 is supposed to be used for a background check, and the Group 1 Life/Health Licensing process. Any current or former representative will tell you that there is a "formula for success" in regards to recruits;

For every 10 people you recruit, 6 will quit and 4 will pursue their life license. Of the 4 that pursue 1 will fail the test and quit, 1 will pass the exam and never sell insurance, 1 will pass, do 2-3 transactions and quit and 1 will become a "success." So, for every 10 recruits, 7 do nothing with the $199.

Let's do a little bit of math for the month of February. 16,500 divided by 10 is 1650. There are 1650 groups of 10. According to the "formula of success" 7 out of the 10 will not use the $199 they paid. 1650 multiplied by 7 is 11,550 people who did not use their $199 fee for licensing. 11,550 times $199 is
$2,298,450. The goal for March is 30,000 recruits. 30,000 divided by 10 is 3000 times 7 is 21,000 times $199 is $4,179,000. In one month off of recruits alone Primerica made enough to pay the "guy on the CD who makes 2 Million Dollars a year" his money for the year and some change.

Can people get refunds? Absolutely. I am in the process of getting three of them right now. After the initial three to four days of processing your $199 loses $40 of value for background checks which actually only cost $20. The other $20 is said to be an administration fee. So in February, had everyone who didn't go after their Group 1 Life/Health license received a refund of $150, Primerica still profited $20 times 11,550 or $213,000.

Recruit. Recruit. Recruit.

2. New recruits are told they need to train in their warm market which consists of family and friends. During the training process the recruit sets appointments within their warm market and then take their Field Trainer, usually their upline, on appointments. At this point in time the recruit is not licensed and can not receive any compensation from the sales of insurance, writing of loans or investment accounts. For the first two to three weeks, new recruits do not see a DIME of money made off of sales to their own family and friends. This is a concept called "give and gain." Basically, on good faith, you take your trainer on appointments, allow them to profit from all of the appointments, and in return are promised that after you receive your license, your trainer will take you out on an equal number of appointments for an equal number of transactions and an equal amount of compensation.

Let's say recruit Adam takes their trainer Theo out to seven appointments, of which five sales are made totaling $2,500 in compensation to Theo. Adam gets his life license. Bob, a new recruit of Theo's, goes on 6 appointments with Theo and gets 4 sales totaling $2,000 in compensation. Theo gives Adam the $2,000, but now owes Bob $2,000 and still owes Adam another $500. How is Theo supposed to make any money? He better hope either Bob or Adam or both quit, and that his new recruit Charlie has a warm market that buys a lot of Life Insurance!

Let's say Theo becomes an RVP(which means you are upgraded to a 95% commissions contract) in December 2006. Adam works hard and of the 16,500 recruits in February his organization was responible for 70. Of those, 21 got licensed and 7 stuck around to make money. Adam's hierarchy consists of three seperate legs, two of the legs have 3 people and the other leg only has 1.

Adam makes RVP at the end of February. According to Give and Gain, because Adam has reached RVP, Theo now gets to take two legs of his choice from Adam's organization. Obviously he will take the two best producing legs which will be the two that have 3 people each in them. Now, Adam has a 95% contract, much better than his 75% contract, but he's lost the majority of his “over ride income” and now only has one leg, with one person. Just wait until someone in Adam's organization makes RVP! Then Adam can replace the two legs he had to give up!

Continued Below......

[toddwj86]

3. The "$.M.A.R.T. Solution Loan" is designed to stack debts and lower money out of pocket every month. It is nothing more than a Home Equity Loan, or a Refinance with cash out. The concept is wonderful and truly can save people thousands of dollars in interest and reduce monthly payments. After all, anyone in the Financial Services Industry understands the value of cash on hand. Unfortunately, with Primerica the lending source is limited to Citicorp Trust Bank and their APR's on Home Equity and Refi's are usually 1 - 2 points higher than the prime rate. Don't even try to get a loan through them if you have anything less than grade A credit.

The money you would save through debt stacking will get eaten up by the higher interest rate.

4. Primerica and Citigroup advise people to do a "Simple Interest Bi-Weekly" payment schedule on their mortgage loan. They claim, truthfully, that by switching to Bi-Weekly payments from your standard 30-Year Monthly payment schedule, will save you thousands of dollars in interest. This is very true.

HOWEVER, switching from a standard amoritization to a simple interest schedule increases the amount of interest you pay. As well, the bi-weekly payment plan simply adds an extra FULL payment per year on your mortgage balance. That's roughly 1/12 of an extra payment per month. It would be smarter to simply add extra money to your payments each month and stick with your lower interest rate, and standard amoritization.

Most of the time you can change the way you pay back your mortgage with your current lender without having to pay anything extra or sacrificing your fixed low interest rate. There are numerous ways you can reduce time and interest paid on your mortgage. Bi-Weekly is just one of a dozen options out there. No one at my base shop knew these facts, and this leads me to believe that many Primerica Advisors also do not know these facts.

5. There are more than 19,000 Mutual Funds available to the public. Of these, around 125 make returns on a consistent month to month basis. Of the 125 funds that make consistent return, around 65 of them make 10% or better. Because I am not yet Series 6 and 63 licensed, I can not name specific funds. However, Primerica Representatives do not know how many mutual funds are out there. They use a limited box of funds and most of those funds are "loaded."

A "loaded" fund simply means that the initial money you invest will have a chunk taken from it which is used to pay commissions to the broker/dealer. Usually it is anywhere from 5% - 8% of the money you initially put into the investment. Let's pretend you have $10,000 to invest. On recommendation from your Primerica Advisor you put your $10,000 into a loaded fund. Let's say this fund has a 5% load fee. Suddenly, your money goes from $10,000 to $9,500, and given the gain/loss statistic chances are your money is going to take a while to make up that 5%.

Obviously fees and things of that nature are how Mutual Fund Companies make their money. So it doesn't matter who you invest with, it's not going to be free. There are advantages and disadvantages of having a Mutual Fund and you sould always read your prospectus carefully and thoroughly. Some loaded funds may be worth the front-end fees in the long run. Others may just have you going broke faster.

6. Primerica's company presentation is abosolutely brilliant. It seamlessly flows from Primerica's credibility, touting it's trillion plus dollar backing from Citigroup and the many accounts of Primerica and Citigroup in various publications, to it's Mission of "Helping Families Become Debt Free and Financially Independent," and closes with a wonderful piece on the commission schedule and my favorite part, a cumulative look at the yearly cash-flow incomes of some representatives.

The numbers are astounding. Nearly 5,000 people make between $50,000 and $99,000. Another 2,600 people make between $100,000 and $999,999 a year. Around 30 make over a million. 16 make over two million. To be honest, this is what sold me on the company. When you have that sort of yearly track record then you are obviously doing something right. Right? No.

These numbers are deceptive. Rather than based upon what Reps had made in the year of 2005, the figures are based upon "cumulative rolling 12-month cash flows" as of November 30, 2005 and dating all the way back to the company's creation in 1977. Also mis-leading is the idea that those 5,000 people making six-figure incomes are different persons. This is not so. A "rolling 12-month" cash flow means that in a 12-month period a Primerica Rep. made X amount of commission. So, if Theo made $125,000 from May '04 to April '05 and then from April '05 to March '06 made another $130,000 he is counted in that "earnings" group twice. Seeing as how the timeline dates all the way back to 1977, its obvious that there are several people who are probably counted in each category 4 or 5 times. Even the guys who have been in the company since its beginning as A.L. Williams, who are now making millions a year, have probably been counted in the higher six-figure category a dozen or so times.

7. The Financial Services Industry is a dynamic and rapidly growing industry. This is 100% true. There is a HUGE MARKET and NEED for MANY new and qualified Financial Planners. America is in a heap of trouble financially. This is solid fact. There is also a ton of money to be made in the industry. This is another part of the Primerica presentation altogether. There truly is a ton of opportunity for growth in this field.

However, Primerica proclaims it is on a crusade to "Do What's Right" for families everywhere while charing higher interest rates and premiums, using loaded mutual funds, and limiting options to a mere handful of investment tools and plans. In order to do what is right for people you have to create a custom-tailored financial suit for each clients situation. One size does not fit all. The only way to truly "Do What's Right" for families 100% of the time a Consultant needs to be able to educate and extend to them the best options out there for their particular situation. You must be educated and have access to the best options when discussing a persons financial life.

Primerica takes anyone off of the street and sends them out to recruit and give financial advice with no education what-so-ever. I never did that because I felt very uncomfortable approaching someone to talk about their finances when I had very limited knowledge of the industry and the services available.

Furthermore, most Primerica representatives worry more about recruiting than they ever do about learning the products and options available to their clients.

The reason for this is because Primerica has a huge bonus program based upon base shop recruits and premium. In order to make bonuses every month you have to recruit a certain amount of people and sell a certain amount of product.

Consequently you have a bunch of "Financial Advisors" with little to no education, who approach people they haven't ever spoken with, and already know exactly which products (Citigroups) they are going to use to "Do What's Right" for the family. Laughable. In order to give each situation the best possible you MUST have ACCESS to all or a vast majority of the options out there. There are countless Life Insurance companies, countless lenders, countless retirement and investment plans. By pushing and selling only a fraction of the options available to families you are robbing them of a better opportunity.

Granted there are some representatives who are more experienced and have a lot of knowledge as to all the services available in the Financial Services Industry, but for the most part Primerica Reps. are guys straight off the block who more than likely, do not have a clue as to what they are talking about.

Once you learn and see all the options available I can't understand why anyone in their right mind would remain with Primerica when they are limited to perhaps 3% of the options available.



I would like to conclude with a couple of conversations I had with people towards the end of my two and a half month tenure at Primerica.

After an "Opportunity Meeting" at my base shop I was hanging around the lobby of the office. A few of us lingered, asking questions and just making friendly small talk. I had quite a few questions about the mortgage products and I began to ask the younger brother of the multi-lucky-millionaire about the interest rates and how the interest is calculated. After a few minutes of talking it out, and realizing he had backed his way into a corner, he looks at me and says;

"You aren't going to be able to win every client. Don't worry about interest rates, calculations, and fees. Just fill out the applications and send them in. If you can save them money, then what difference does it make if the APR is 8% instead of 6%?"

That's the conversation that sealed the deal for me. What difference does it make? What difference does two percentage points make in amounts of cash on hand every month? Hundreds a month. Thousands in the long term.

When I resigned I called my upline to inform him I was leaving. He asked me my reasoning. I told him the products weren't the best. What he said next is something I will remember and laugh at for the rest of my life;

"Since when did you care about product? When you were a cashier at Wal-Mart did you research the products they sold?"

Brilliant my friend. Captain Crunch.....Retirement......Cocoa Puffs......Investment Planning. One and the same!

Based upon my experience I have this advice to give;

Stay away from Primerica Financial Consultants. Chances are they don't know what they are talking about and, if they do, they won't be able to offer what's best for you

[borisf96]

"Since when did you care about product? When you were a cashier at Wal-Mart did you research the products they sold?"

Brilliant my friend. Captain Crunch.....Retirement......Cocoa Puffs......Investment Planning. One and the same!

Could not agree with you more. If you ask salesperson about $50 item, he would not know anything about it. But if you ask salesperson about $5000 item, chances are he knows quite a bit about it. Otherwise he would not be able to sell it.

Only in world of MLM, you are supposed to sell expensive stuff without knowing anything about it.

[BIGfranky75]

WOW..... excellent, excellent post.

i have oftened wondered how primerica is still in business. being in finance, i have posted many times on this thread about the total joke that this company is. how can anyone with any morals or integrity sell these products/services that they offer and look themselves in the mirror without wanting to vomit.

[Soapboxmom]

Originally Posted by BIGfranky75

WOW..... excellent, excellent post.

i have oftened wondered how primerica is still in business. being in finance, i have posted many times on this thread about the total joke that this company is. how can anyone with any morals or integrity sell these products/services that they offer and look themselves in the mirror without wanting to vomit.

May I second that. toddwj86, you are an extremely well spoken and bright young man. I hope you do get the chance to finish the college education you are so close to completing. It is such a treat to have a poster come on with such an excellent command of the English language.

I am glad BIGfranky brought up the products. Interest only loans are the most egregious thing to come along in the loan industry for years. With a housing market that averages 4% a year appreciation over the long term with a roller coaster like ride on the way, one takes tremendous risk taking out a loan like that. If one needs to sell it could require walking to the closing table with a very large check to unload the home that has depreciated and, of course, has closing cost on both ends.

The way Primerica parades its high earning "studs" is totally typical. Counting them numerous times in the earnings statements is just atrocious. MLM has earned its bad rap for good reason.

It is also quite scary to imagine folks with no background and training handling folks finances. If one is only out to sell grossly overpriced MLM products they certainly are not going to be looking out for the best interest of their clients. It sounds like the typical legions of the clueless recruiting hard for the same. Frightening!

I am glad you came on to share your experience.

Soapboxmom

[toddwj86]

I appreciate the comments and replies, and the time you took to read the entire post. Please direct those you know who have been involved with or contacted by Primerica. There is so much pressure put on people to listen and buy from Primerica that most don't say no or that they want to get more information first before buying. They just buy or join or both on emotion and ignorance.

Though it is funny how the truth always finds the light regardless of the amountof deceit and lies that cover it up.

[ignited]

Let me get this straight: a 21 year-old, "go-getter" has figured out what is wrong with the largest financial services company in the world? Sure, OK? Quick, somebody alert Wallstreet. Thanks for bringing this to light about a 30+ yearr old company.

[Soapboxmom]

ignited,

Don't you have rah-rah meetings for Ignite to lead or at least attend? Gee, making all that money and you still have time to come on and harass us. I feel so special!

Would you trust your finances to a clueless MLMer? Is this going to be your next winning venture? Are things slow at Iggy? Everyone we know who got in on the ground floor has long since thrown in the towel on that losing venture. With the whopping 4.75 customers per rep most are still losing big.

Since we are discussing some of the more controversial products offered by Primerica, would you care to share your thoughts on these?

Soapboxmom

[ignited]

Blah, Blah, Blah. I can see you're still playing the same old broken record SBM. Too bad Citicorp and Wallstreet are not as smart as you and the kid genius.

[toddwj86]

It's interesting to note that Ignited can offer no form of rebuttal that has anything to do with FACTS. He relies strictly on his ad hominem argument.

Citigroup the largest financial services company in the world? Where do you get your information from?

If you knew anything about Citigroup you would know their stock is *****ed down and that they're constantly settling lawsuits with the FTC for loan sharking practices. Furthermore, you would also know that Citigroup is only the largest corporation in terms of capital, and that capital is based upon assets that are in reality debts owed to citigroup via loans and credit cards.

In fact, Citigroup so heavily relies on "capital" from interest on all the debts owed to them that they wouldn't let Mexico pay off a loan, simply because it would mean a loss of $415 Million dollars of interest per year. Hmmm. Wonderful company, a third world government treis to step up and improve the situation, only to be turned down because of some greedy, funny money, company.

Primerica is listed as a Retail Distribution company. If that doesn't scream salesmen I don't know what does.

Good luck selling you 4 cents per kilo-watt hour cheaper electric billing service. Hope you aren't out of the job when your well dries up in a year and a half.

Peon.

[Unlucky36]

Primerica=SCAM SCAM SCAM!! Do not fall for this crappy cult!

[toddwj86]

Amen!

Er, wait. That's what they chant.

[ignited]

Touche boy genious. Did you learn all that in your three years in college or in film school?

Right or wrong, the laughable thing about your post is that this is old news. You act like just because you're finding all this out for the first time that it is relevant and that you have personally uncovered some dark secret. Primerica was shaking up the financial services industry as A.L. Williams before you were even born.

So you're going to tell us what you know about the ****** sector now? I guess you're an expert there also. Regardless, I've built and sold many companies over the years and I will be just fine no matter the price of electricity. Right now, ****** couldn't look better. One and a half years? What are you talking about?

Maybe when you finish college and get some real life experience under your belt you'll have something worth listening to.

[Soapboxmom]

ignited,

The boy is a genious. He probably won't spend his life recruiting legions of suckers into crummy MLMs like you. He could go out and get a lucrative job in the real world that doesn't involve scamming anybody.

I am gald you admitted his post is "old news" as that means the young man is right on the money. This is just another seedy MLM. Wild uncontrolled hiring(reeling in the suckers) to work for a company that in the real world they would be deemed totally unqualified to work for.

toddwj86, you should be quite honored to be in ignited's line of fire. Ignited is one of the bigwig's over at Ignite. Being completely bereft of facts is par for the course. You have now joined the ranks of the anti-MLM shills. Just how we are being compensated is still a mystery to me. I haven't evaluated that particular plan yet. LOL! But, nonetheless welcome to the club!

Soapboxmom

[toddwj86]

You have now joined the ranks of the anti-MLM shills. Just how we are being compensated is still a mystery to me. I haven't evaluated that particular plan yet. LOL! But, nonetheless welcome to the club!

Well, as I understand it, we are paid a flat commission for every post we have, plus bonuses after 15 posts per week. I've also come to understand that we pull a 10% override for each person that we bring on board as an anti-MLM shill.

LOL. This is my favorite quite from Ignited;

"Right now, ****** couldn't look better."

Enron said the same thing.

[ignited]

The boy genius comes down a few notches- I guess you didn't catch the fact that the Enron problem was greed related not ****** related. And I guess you missed hearing about the largest corporate purchase in business history announced recently and the flood of related analysis praising sector. Maybe when you prmote beyond $15/hour you will catch some of these details.

[Soapboxmom]

ignited,

I do hope you are the real ignited with all those identities. The moderator, Sojustask wrote "Ignited has a 3 day for this particular username he has, the OTHER 4 names have been permanently banned. Multiple names are against the rules." Are all those identities the principals in this scam posting from the Ignite/Stream headquarters at Infomart, or do those stellar earnings at ol' Iggy mean you need a boatload of roomies? Or is that just you and your multiple personalities on display in a desperate attempt to silence the anti- MLM shills on all these threads?

http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=237229&postcount=70

At good ol' Iggy:

Executive Director $ 92,025.00 $819,089.50 $241,931.60 12 12 12
0.05%

Senior Director $1162.00 $86,712.75 $10,614.70 2 12 12
1.22%

So our new friend toddwj86 with earnings of $15 an hour--around $30,000 a year full time--- is making more than 99.95% of your recruits and you don't think he is a genius?


toodwj86, are they selling a lot of the interest only home loans? If they are, do they fully disclose the risks to the client?

Soapboxmom

[toddwj86]

Texas law dictates that you are supposed to disclose all of that information in the HUD-1 statement, whch is given to the client the night before the closing. I can't say that I've SEEN them be dishonest with the details, but the things I've heard reps. say strongly leads me to believe that they aren't exactly having a cup of coffee over it.

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by Patrick in California

Not at all, because in a real pyramid scheme, there is NO LEGITIMATE product or service being sold and you can NOT make more money than the person who brought you in.

And given COMPETITION, "saturation" is virtually IMPOSSIBLE.

Just a bit more information for those who are not aware of what exactly the difference is between a "legal MLM" and an "illegal pyramid" scheme. Not much difference........


http://www.rickross.com/reference/ge...eneral546.html

A very thin line between multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes

.......Shadows of the pyramid

.........Traditionally, pyramiding involves only the investment of money in which a recruit would have to get a specific number of downlines and earn a certain percentage from the amount he invested and those that were poured in by the recruits of the recruits.

But when authorities cracked down on firms or persons involved in this illegal scheme, some "innovative" groups thought of going around the law by offering products and/or services in their scheme.

Thus began the problem of distinguishing a legitimate MLM from those into pyramiding.

Olmos says MLM in itself is legal.

"It is a marketing strategy to broaden the market base," he said. But only a thin line separates networking from the pyramid scheme.

Olmos stressed that simply by offering products and services, a networking company becomes legal and is shielded from pyramiding charges.

.......Doomed to fail?

MLMs work by geometric expansion, whereby a recruit must in turn recruit a certain number of people. So, if selling the product is a mere sideshow to the real profit-making anchored on recruitment, an MLM firm is bound to collapse at a certain level due to saturation.

If, for example, a recruit, in order to earn his commission, must recruit 10 other people, at a depth of three levels, there would be 1,000 persons under his pyramid. At a depth of six levels, that number would swell to one million.

Considering the limited number of people who can afford and are willing to buy and use a particular product, saturation is inevitable and fast. This makes only those on top of the chain happy while those below are doomed to lose money.

To compound the situation, in MLMs the product is not the real reason people are enticed to join. The product offered is merely the excuse to legitimize the real and probably illegal moneymaking scam.


So, in other words, MLM's are nothing more than pyramid schemes that found a loophole in the legal system that allowed them to continue scamming people. Otherwise, they're no different, and no better than illegal pyramids.

[TheWholeTruth]

Even if the executives of multi-level marketing (MLM) companies have great products and good intentions … which makes me chuckle just typing it … good intentions? lol … the RECRUITING portion of the plan (which is what makes it an MLM in the first place) simply CANNOT work in the long term. Look at the below very eye-opening calculations for yourself and try to refute them:

Canada’s Population (as of 2006): 32,248,600
United States Population (as of 2006): 298,444,215

Total Population: 330,692,815

I once worked for A.I.L./Altig International (another insurance MLM) so I’ll use their recruiting expectations for my example as they’re probably pretty close to other MLM’s.

Altig/A.I.L.’s expectations, when I worked there, were that each Hiring Manager would hire 10 new agents per week … with the assumption that around 2 of them would actually get through the licensing and training, and start selling insurance. The promise to these agents was that, if they became an MGA, they could have a down-line of agents below them whom they could start earning money from.

Let me show you how quickly the North American market would be saturated with these statistics alone … and how many people at the bottom of the MLM would end up working their asses off for nothing within a mere 7 or 8 years:

60 offices X 1 Hiring Manager per office = 60 Hiring Managers
60 Hiring Managers X 2 new agents/week X 52 weeks in FIRST year = 6240 agents

Let’s say, in the SECOND year, each of these 6240 agents want, at minimum, another 4 agents below themselves to earn money off:
6240 + (6240 X 4) = 31,200 agents

Let’s say, in the THIRD year, each of these 31,200 agents want, at minimum, another 4 agents below themselves to earn money off:
31,200 + (31,200 X 4) = 156,000 agents

By the FOURTH year, if this pattern continues…
156,000 + (156,000 X 4) = 780,000 agents

By the FIFTH year, if this pattern continues…
780,000 + (780,000 X 4) = 3,900,000 agents

By the SIXTH year,
3,900,000 + (3,900,000 X 4) = 19,500,000 agents

By the SEVENTH year, we’ve already surpassed the entire population of Canada
19,500,000 + (19,500,000 X 4) = 97,500,000 agents

By the EIGHTH year, we’ve surpassed the entire population of North America
97,500,000 + (97,500,000 X 4) = 487,500,000 agents

The truth is, this pattern probably wouldn’t even be able to sustain itself into the fifth or sixth year before collapsing for a couple of reasons:

1. You need to have SOME people leftover to be customers, don’t you? You can’t have the whole population of North America as an Altig/A.I.L. agent.

2. There are several MLM insurance companies who are trying to accomplish the exact same thing as Altig/A.I.L. There’s no way any of them could possibly get this much market share in the first place.

I don’t even remember what the expectation was for agents……whether or not they were expected to have more than 4 agents below them. But even with these small numbers, it is easy to see how quickly the MLM would saturate the market and collapse.

It's also now easy to understand why the company doesn't give all the truth upfront, and why people feel "cheated" and "lied to" and "used" once they realize the truth for themselves. It's because the ones at the bottom ARE being "cheated" and "lied to" and "used" in order to sustain the pyramid......

Let's say Alig/A.I.L. actually WAS able to multiply to the numbers above in the 7th year, then they would have no other choice but to LIE to all the recruits in the 8th year to make them join the company. Those above them would already know the market-place was saturated, and that none of the 8th-year recruits could expect to have recruits under them.......instead, those 8th-year recruits would just be working their asses off to sustain the "pyramid" above them. But someone would have to lie to them, make them believe they could have success, just to get them to work there in the first place (which is pretty much what we see happening already).

This is what's wrong with this type of business, and why it should be illegal. Eventually, someone is going to get screwed. Someone is going to be lied to so that everyone else can continue making the money they're making.

It's a scam. It can never work in the long term. And it should be illegal.

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by openingdreams

........You are correct in your fact that 95-98% (I'm saving that .5%) of people don't last. On average over 400,000 people a month delve into the home based business opportunity nationwide........

This is what always baffles me about pro-MLMers......you actually AGREE with me that 98% of people don't last in MLMs........and yet you STILL expect me to believe it's a "wonderful opportunity."

Are you trying to tell me that, if 98% of people "fail" at an opportunity, it's 98% of the peoples' faults? That it's not a problem with the so-called "opportunity" itself? Give me a break!

Here's a good rebuttal to that........better than any rebuttal I could ever give you:


http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/failure.htm

It is a copout to put the full blame for failure on this 80-95% who throw in the towel at scammer firms given the odds against them, yet that is exactly what happens. Furthermore, it serves a purpose.

At the scammer firm, success is always just "around the corner." Scammers convince the rep that he's one of the "elite" who can make it and pound into him that it's his fault when he can't. Lures of cash bonuses and trips are dangled, constant "you-can-do-it" rah-rah meetings are mandatory, and reps are told that quitters just "didn't have what it takes" (unlike you who are sticking it out!) or "violated major securities laws and were fired" (but we know you wouldn't do such a thing!). A real cult mentality of false hope develops among reps who buy into this reasoning. This is an actual quote* from a rep:

"[XXXX] is a great company and yes just like anything else it's hard to make $100,000 a year. But if your [sic] willing to put in the work it's just almost guaranteed that you will make it... if you are willing to do what I've done you will have the same results, if not than [sic] quit like everyone else quits everything they do and be bitter. But don't bad mouth a great company because you don't have what it takes to win."

I have little doubt that that rep was gone within 2 years and never pulled $100K. This quote* is my favorite and pretty much sums it up:

"Can you tell a 21 year old [...] who makes $50,000 a year with [XXXX] a loser? I know I am but what are you?"

Yeah, right!

It's all designed to instill in the quitter an unreasonable sense of failure. Why? If the quitter feels responsible for his failure, he won't place the blame where it belongs and sue the firm. After all, he's been purposely deceived! Guilt and shame are instrumental in avoiding lawsuits at this point.

[toddwj86]

Interesting post Whole Truth.

[nlitnd1]

Paul Patricelli (Primerica Rep) is a follower of cult-based sales and recruiting tactics - he is a people user, abuser and total loser. Those not aware of Patricelli's selling (and recruiting) lies and tactics are pulled into his web of scams, lies and “opportunities” that result in the unrecoverable loss of time and money that cannot afford to be lost – it is a crime. This man uses purposeful deception to make his living and works out of Lake County, Illinois covering as a knowledgeable Primerica representative.

[roberttheman24]

i am a fairly new primerica representative and so far everything i have read , even though i at one time shared your skepticisms about the company, doesnt seem valid based on my research. First off, everyone agrees that Citigroup (primerica's parent company) is the largest financial services company in the world. They boast assets totaling more than $1.5 trillion. They are one of the 30 Dow Jones INdustrial Average Stocks. With that in mind, why would a company of this size and magnitude risk its credibility and reputation on a so called "scam" or "scheme" company. It just doesn't make sense. I have a friend who got me into the business. He has been doing it for a year now and is doing very well with it. I have met clients first hand who have been helped significantly by this company. So far in my experience, when he do the complimentary financial needs analysis which provides solutions in investments, income protection, income management, and Expense managment, and we run the numbers and see that we are not able to put someone in a better situation financially then we dont even propose the plan. now this is what i ask of anyone who reads this, if you have something to contradict anything i have said, please do. I want to be as educated about this as i can. Now i really dont believe anyone could change my mind about this fantastic company, but please try, and please have valid facts to throw at me and good third party materical, not this bull**** about something you found on the internet that someone has stated there opinion about.

[Fyst]

Originally Posted by roberttheman24

i am a fairly new primerica representative and so far everything i have read , even though i at one time shared your skepticisms about the company, doesnt seem valid based on my research. First off, everyone agrees that Citigroup (primerica's parent company) is the largest financial services company in the world. They boast assets totaling more than $1.5 trillion.

Blah blah blah... yeah right. So Primerica likes to "help" people with their debts. And look what its parent company, Citigroup, is doing to "undo" the help: here's our credit card. Go and spent all the money that you don't have. And then Primerica comes around, offering more "debt consolidation loans" to "help" you with your debt.

This makes me sick to my stomach if you ask me.

Oh and don't forget that they boast assets totalling more than $1.5 trillion. It's because they are the best in the world in robbing, ur I mean reaping, money from people like you and me.

[Unlucky36]

RECRUIT RECRUIT RECRUIT!!!! RIPOFF RIPOFF RIPOFF!!!!

[Unlucky36]

Primerica is just a worthless pice of crap scam! Don't waste your time in this MLM cult

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by toddwj86

Interesting post Whole Truth.

I could say the same about yours! Actually, where your post is concerned, "impressive" would be a better word than "interesting."

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by Fyst

...........Oh and don't forget that they boast assets totalling more than $1.5 trillion. It's because they are the best in the world in robbing, ur I mean reaping, money from people like you and me.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly!

So often, naive people are quick to judge that a company must be reputable based solely on ranking reports of its "impressive assets" and its several years in business. Well, here's what I say to that: the MAFFIA has impressive assets; the HELL'S ANGELS have impressive assets. And both organizations have been around since before you were born! That doesn't make their business dealings ethical OR legal!

You can't judge a business by its bank account alone. You also can't judge a company simply by how long they've been around. You have to look at other things: employee retention, customer service satisfaction, word of mouth.

This forum represents word of mouth from people who have FIRSTHAND experience with this company (this type of company). These opinions are all valid - I would argue even MORE valid than the size of the company's assets in financial ranking reports.

[Soapboxmom]

Originally Posted by TheWholeTruth

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly!

So often, naive people are quick to judge that a company must be reputable based solely on ranking reports of its "impressive assets" and its several years in business. Well, here's what I say to that: the MAFFIA has impressive assets; the HELL'S ANGELS have impressive assets. And both organizations have been around since before you were born! That doesn't make their business dealings ethical OR legal!

You can't judge a business by its bank account alone. You also can't judge a company simply by how long they've been around. You have to look at other things: employee retention, customer service satisfaction, word of mouth.

This forum represents word of mouth from people who have FIRSTHAND experience with this company (this type of company). These opinions are all valid - I would argue even MORE valid than the size of the company's assets in financial ranking reports.

Excellent post!

Companies and organized crime may look very financially healthy on paper, but we are talking about the majority of the reps/salesforce who lose. Your post on saturation illustrates the problem exactly. In the blink of an eye there is no customer base.

I still think it is hilarious our dear Todd is making more than 99.95% of the reps with Ignite.

Soapboxmom

[toddwj86]

Robert The Man,

You quoted all of that information straight out of the Primerica Recruiting presentation. I have that thing on *****point and committed to memory still.

I don't believe that you are really able to help people. You might be able to make it look like you are helping, but in the end you are hurting your clients because you can only offer them a very limited amount of financial products.

[mj363]

Seriously, Who cares what the parent company is?

Does it really make a difference? Personally I think its pretty scary that the best defense supporters can do is to ignore questions and try to hide behind their parent company instead of actually addressing valid concerns, but thats just my opinnion.

Why does Primerica have such a high turn over?
Why does Primerica have to charge fees - when other companies don't?
Do you think a person giving financial advice should have formal training?
Do you think anyone can step in off the street and give good financial advice?
Does Primerica have any standards at all?

Is there any truth to people saying that primerica reps only sell primerica products/services instead of looking at all the options?

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by mj363

Why does Primerica have such a high turn over?
Why does Primerica have to charge fees - when other companies don't?
Do you think a person giving financial advice should have formal training?
Do you think anyone can step in off the street and give good financial advice?
Does Primerica have any standards at all?

Is there any truth to people saying that primerica reps only sell primerica products/services instead of looking at all the options?

The below website will most likely answer all your above questions about Primerica:

http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/index.htm

CONTENTS:

Introduction

How The Scam Works

Starting Out: "If I Work Hard, I'll Make It!"
"Independent Contractor?"
The Training Program
Prospecting
Failure: It's All Legal!

Fighting Back

Avoiding The Scam
Prosecution & Legislation
Networking
Links and Resources

[TheWholeTruth]

For those of you who aren't aware, both the Canadian and American governments have bureaus that investigate possible fraud and other illegal activity within multi-level marketing (also known as “network marketing’) companies. Here are two links for you to review:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/invest/mlm.shtm
The United States Federal Trade Commission / Bureau of Competition states: ".......If a plan offers to pay commissions for recruiting new distributors, watch out! Most states outlaw this practice, which is known as 'pyramiding.'......"

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/i...emID=1230&lg=e
The Canadian Competition Bureau states: ".......It is illegal if: participants pay money for the right to receive compensation for recruiting new participants........"

If, after reading these sites in full, you believe that a multi-level marketing (MLM) company has employed any "illegal pyramiding practices" that are prohibited by these federal bureaus, or if you believe they've misled you in any way, then I strongly recommend you report them to your competition bureau for investigation.

Stop scammers in their tracks.

[GeneralTsoGood]

Originally Posted by ignited

Let me get this straight: a 21 year-old, "go-getter" has figured out what is wrong with the largest financial services company in the world? Sure, OK? Quick, somebody alert Wallstreet. Thanks for bringing this to light about a 30+ yearr old company.

first of all you are a moron.
second tell us one thing about Primerica that you knew of before this thread.

primerica was swallowed up by citigroup like 5 or so years ago and had absolutely nothing to do with any of citgroups operations until and even after then.
now i would like to give my personal experience with primerica.

a few months after i finished college i was doing what every other grad that was too lazy to put any effort into getting a job while still in school or didnt have a family connection to hook them up right out of school (i hate my roomate for falling ass backward into a great job and talking like he "earned" it )..i was flipping through the want ads and posting on Internet sites like Monster and Careerbuilder. One day i received a phone call from a guy who told me he was going to change my life at a company named Primerica, a division of citigroup.

I accepted his invitation to attend one of their presentations, and similar to the original poster was impressed at the sheer amount of money that was being thrown around as compensation. Then the presentation entered into the last 15 minutes where they explained how you make so much money. It had nothing to do with the level of success you have "investing" peoples money (which sometimes would be hundreds of thousands of dollars) and everything to do with bringing in more recruits who will in turn bring more and more recruits....recruiting recruiting recruiting. thats all Primerica is.

I also met with the local branches SNSL, senior national sales regional president or something fancy like that, and he did seem like he made lots of money. In fact, I am almost positive he did, but how he slept at night I have no idea. And i am not just referring to the fact that he was a slimy guy who basically conned people into thinking they are working in the "financial services industry" when really they are just recruiting more saps, I am also referring to the fact that he seemed like he had 47 ulcers and kept a bottle of Pepto in his pockets at all times. this guy was stressed out. Anyways he starts getting on me about how New York Life (a company I had just interviewed with and shared this info with him) was such a bad company and they just rip off the consumers and Primerica would blow them away anytime they were compared side-by-side. then he introduced me to some of his "go-getters", of which none were aged over 25 (which is fine, cuase I was not even that age). After he left i talked to one of them in private and learned that he was about to quit because he was A) not making any money because every lead or sale he made was taken by his "trainer", and B) not happy with the way in which the products were peddled to mostly misinformed customers.

If you are unlucky enough to become one of their customers, like the poster alluded to in the conversation he had with the millionaires younger brother, you will actually save some money. In fact, you can end up saving money and investing it at the same time to building wealth, and in the end the family is much better off, however, that family would have been even more better off than if they just wandered into any bank on any street corner.

they pray on new grads for recruitment purposes, take your money to work for them (what a novel idea), and offer products to their customers that they would never consider buying themselves.

if you are a potential customer, save your time and money.

if you are a potential employee, save your time and money.

[GeneralTsoGood]

Originally Posted by roberttheman24

i am a fairly new primerica representative and so far everything i have read , even though i at one time shared your skepticisms about the company, doesnt seem valid based on my research. First off, everyone agrees that Citigroup (primerica's parent company) is the largest financial services company in the world. They boast assets totaling more than $1.5 trillion. They are one of the 30 Dow Jones INdustrial Average Stocks. With that in mind, why would a company of this size and magnitude risk its credibility and reputation on a so called "scam" or "scheme" company. It just doesn't make sense. I have a friend who got me into the business. He has been doing it for a year now and is doing very well with it. I have met clients first hand who have been helped significantly by this company. So far in my experience, when he do the complimentary financial needs analysis which provides solutions in investments, income protection, income management, and Expense managment, and we run the numbers and see that we are not able to put someone in a better situation financially then we dont even propose the plan. now this is what i ask of anyone who reads this, if you have something to contradict anything i have said, please do. I want to be as educated about this as i can. Now i really dont believe anyone could change my mind about this fantastic company, but please try, and please have valid facts to throw at me and good third party materical, not this bull**** about something you found on the internet that someone has stated there opinion about.

heres a fact, you make money by recruiting more people and they in turn recruit more people.

[toddwj86]

Hear, Hear!

Primerica is a scam, plain and simple. Scam, Scam, Scam.

Is talking to a financial planner a good idea? I think so. But find someone who is an independent who understands the countless options out there. Find someone who cares what happens to your money, and isn't simply interested in making a fat commission.

Todd

[toddwj86]

Anyone else have any comments?

[Cornelius]

I used to be with Primerica, so I can say that Primerica isn't a scam. They have a certain market they go after which is lower to middle income.. The reason I left was due to limited products and the restrictions of the agent agreement.

As stated above ther is a huge difference between dealing with an independent agent compared to a captive agent. Primerica agents are captive agents which mean they can only sell products authorized by Primerica. An independent agent can represent many companies so they can shop the market to get a policy to fit the client.

As I said Primerica isn't a scam, but an agent can do better.

[tribeof5]

I'd like to address some of the issues raised by this thread as both a proponent and adversary to Primerica and MLM's...sounding like a little bit of double talk??? Well, yes and no.

First of all, Primerica does have a vision of "correcting an injustice" in the insurance industry and for those that are posting against it, well, let's just say that you are probably not suited to be in alliance with this company anyway. It's more likely that you were motivated to join Primerica because of the "opportunity" to make a ton of money, hand over fist, and in that case, do not share the company's attitude of "helping" families which in fact goes back to A.L. Williams. You first need to sell out to that ideology rather than to be driven by the dollar, or else all you will end up doing is chasing that dollar.

I think it's wonderful that ToddWj86 wanted to be more informed about the various products and services that Primerica offers. It's unfortunate that you weren't given the information you were looking for. Many Reps are told that IT DOESN'T MATTER, DON'T ASK TOO MANY QUESTIONS, IT WILL ALL GET WORKED OUT, yada yada. Good for you for checking it out anyway. But more importantly, did you understand it once it was given?

The reason that the SMART loan works, in particular, is because of the simple interest calculation method. True that most people don't have any idea what that means, but if more people educated themselves, rather than being part of a spoon fed culture, there might be less debt than what's happening now. I wonder why more individuals don't educate themselves better anyways. They should have a least a working knowledge of their money.

My personal mortgage note is held by another bank other than Citi or it's affiliates. I had the option of taking Citi's offer, but quite frankly, it wasn't worth it for our family because of the monthly difference. But at least I knew enough to ask my Mortgagor if a similar programme was available. When Primericans say that the interest rate doesn't matter, it's because there is an assumption that you will follow the SMART loan programme and the loan would be paid off faster than with a traditional loan (usually shaving off 5-10 years) thus, saving you thousands of dollars in interest $$ (so the interest wouldn't matter...). This is a built in and INTEGRAL component of the SMART LOAN. Yes, consumers can take advantage of this information on their own, but most don't and/or their specific mortgagor doesn't offer this re-payment option. So many people don't get it and think it's a bunch of phooey! But it's not. Your monthly payment is affected mostly and for many people, that does matter in the monthly out of pocket costs. But if you can afford to look past that, then it is a great thing to do for the long run.

I don't need to get into all of the statistical elements of recruiting. That hat has been well worn here. But lemme ask this...is there any other sales position where the person in the higher position is not paid a little sumthin' sumthin' on the commissions paid? ...What I'm trying to say is my job (in a completely un-related industry) was to sell a product. I would make my numbers, get a paycheck and spend it. My boss, would get a little "bonus" for me making my numbers (I was on her sales team) and she would get a paycheck and spend it. Her boss, because we, as a sales dept. that made our numbers, would get a bonus in a paycheck.... and spend it. Funny how that seems to be scarring people into thinking everything is a pyramid.

As far as being a Financial Advisers...Primerica Reps are not. There is a series of REAL gov't regulated licensing procedures you have to follow to be a bonified adviser. And if you have those licenses, you should (by then) have the knowledge to back up your advise. Not any average Joe can be one. If someone from Primerica or anywhere tells you that they are, ask to see the license itself. Primerica reps are given clearance to peddle the mortgages offered by CITIBANK, but that does not make them a loan consultant or Broker. It means that they are allowed to take information from clients and submit it to the "real" mortgage professionals at Citibank. Likewise with investments. Reps are not allowed to discuss them unless they hold the proper licenses. (Which are, by the way, the same ones that big name investment companies require of their agents.)

Captive vs. Free Agent...yes, you do have more of a broad range of companies to represent, which may provide the client AS WELL AS THE AGENT a better product and commission. But I wonder how many "Sales Agents", I mean, "Insurance Agents" would look past the commission rates of two comparable companies offering competitive products. Would it matter to the client if the Agent was paid a little more to peddle option "A" over option "B"?? Moreover, would you go into an Apple Computer retailer and ask for a run of the mill MP3 player? Or would you expect Apple to showcase their own product? Duh.

Primerica has a real plan going on with the $199 registration fee. They can gather the flock and make a few bucks off of those that don't cut it. But whose fault is that? Even the $500 earnings that Toddwj86 made was a 251% return on his investment, if you want to talk numbers! But mostly, it seems to weed out those people that are really "go getters" from those that are wanting to get rich quick. Anything is possible in the USA, but we seem to have forgotten how to WORK to get it.

So my next question is... how much money have you refunded to Primerica after receiving your Life License? Obviously you are still in pursuit of your securities licenses, so Primerica wasn't a complete waste of time or money. Seems as though you may have saved yourself a pretty penny by getting your education on their dime.

[mikeyg718]

Hello all,

I went to their meetings as a favor for my ex. Even before I have done any research on Primerica, I assumed that it was some kinda of scam, their motto of "helping people" sounds very fishy to me, and I advised her not to join. My ex is very naive, and she still believes that this company is really out there to "help people" and she already shelled out some money to join.

At the meeting I told this rep that his company is a scam and this meeting was a load of BS. So he told me that he makes "200k/year." I couldn't resist, I told him I earn "200k/month." I really don't make that much money in ten years but neither does he, and if he can make up numbers, so can I. That really angered him and he started to verbally attack me. That very funny incident made the whole evening feel like a good experience.

The point of all my whole lecture is that: numbers, diagrams and figures can make the earth look flat, the sun feel cold, and the universe seem finite. And as amazing as Primerica's intentions sound, I know that primerica is all about making the founder AL Williams & Citigroup (The Dubai corporation) some money. But I am planning to attend more of their meetings (as long as they are free to attend). If those people are gullible enough to join that scam, then I want recruit some of their cute reps to join my company.

[Thane]

Originally Posted by mikeyg718

Hello all,

I went to their meetings as a favor for my ex. Even before I have done any research on Primerica, I assumed that it was some kinda of scam, their motto of "helping people" sounds very fishy to me, and I advised her not to join. My ex is very naive, and she still believes that this company is really out there to "help people" and she already shelled out some money to join.

At the meeting I told this rep that his company is a scam and this meeting was a load of BS. So he told me that he makes "200k/year." I couldn't resist, I told him I earn "200k/month." I really don't make that much money in ten years but neither does he, and if he can make up numbers, so can I. That really angered him and he started to verbally attack me. That very funny incident made the whole evening feel like a good experience.

The point of all my whole lecture is that: numbers, diagrams and figures can make the earth look flat, the sun feel cold, and the universe seem finite. And as amazing as Primerica's intentions sound, I know that primerica is all about making the founder AL Williams & Citigroup (The Dubai corporation) some money. But I am planning to attend more of their meetings (as long as they are free to attend). If those people are gullible enough to join that scam, then I want recruit some of their cute reps to join my company.

What company is that?

[YourUncleBob]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience in such detail. You've helped me to make an informed decision. I too am 20 something, nearing completion of my degree, and I've been invited to become a Primerica Representative. Upon returning to meet with my RVP, I will have to regretfully inform her I will be unable to participate. I have similar interests and a strong work ethic as well, I was on the fence, but I am no longer. You've helped me jump off said fence and on to the right side. Thanks again.

[ItooHaveAlltheAnswers]

I am a fairly new representative with Primerica so bear with me as I am one of those "clueless" people. If you are someone that's curious about Primerica, I would caution you against just accepting everything said in this forum as being the truth (to include me). There were a few points in the previous posts that I wanted to chime in on. If you are not licensed to sell a product, you are not permitted to talk about it. I did not find getting my life insurance license very challenging but I know a lot of people failed the class. I have not taken the securities exam yet so I am not allowed to talk about investments. I do know that people say the securities exams are hard, leading me to believe that if you are selling investments with Primerica, you know a little bit about the topic. It would be great if Primerica would only hire experienced professional investment consultants but I am guessing the financial needs analysis would no longer be free. USAA is a respected insurance organization known to do well by its clients as it is a mutual insurer (I have my car insurance with them) however, their financial analysis reports start from a little above $400 to over $1000. Highly trained professionals are already at work and if you are looking to invest anything without at least 5 figures attached to it, they will not give you the time of day. Perhaps the Primerica "defector" can confirm this but Primerica can get you started in a mutual fund for as little as $25 a month. I went with my trainer (he's also my RVP) to see a friend who decided to get more life insurance. By law, since I was not licensed I could not get the commission on the sale. Afterwards, my trainer said because law prohibits me from getting any commission he would instead refund my $99 get started fee. Interesting if the start up fees are what this "scheme" is based on. Of course, I assume that we don't want to talk about the fact that you get the start fee back anyway once you have passed your licenses and conducted 4 financial needs analysis. My personal life insurance experience with Primerica: I quit my last job, I'm getting divorced and I have no kids. Having learned a little about life insurance thru Primerica, I wanted $250,000 in coverage because the premium was reasonable and I was not planning on being unemployed, single and childless forever. I was planning ahead because insurance becomes more expensive as you get older (duh!). A few weeks ago I received a refund on my first month premium. Primerica decided to only cover me for $40,000 because I am single and no one really depends on my income. They were worried about me paying for coverage I did not need, so instead of receiving over $50 a month, they will now be receiving less than $20. I would appreciate it if someone could educate me on their "sinister" motives for declining to take money from me. Life insurance example not related to me. This case was brought to our attention as a training point of what not to do. An agent from a different company "assisted" the heirs of a large estate with their life insurance needs. He set up huge policies which were all paid out of a trust fund for the husband, wife and their 2 year old child. As I mentioned earlier, life insurance is to replace income so your survivors will not suffer financially in the even of a "bread winner" passing away unexpectedly. This agent sold an $800,000 policy on the 2 year old child. Was anyone depending on the 2 year old's income? Did the agent get a huge commission? Primerica does not operate that way and tries to help people who have been "assisted" in that manner by other companies. During our overview, one of the speakers will usually explain why they got started with Primerica. They stated being a representative with Primerica is not for everybody but you get your start up fee refunded, you learn about money so you can make better decisions for yourself, and you can start part time so you keep your current job. What do you have to loose? Like I said, just wanted to chime in. I am not saying Primerica is perfect but it's pretty good. For all the people in this forum with negative things to say, there are a lot more people with positive things to say about Primerica but they are not going to be in this forum. To the poor guy who is going to use what's been said in this forum to quit Primerica, I worry about your future. This is just like political issues, it's all about how you spin it. Take the same issue and on Fox News it sounds like a good thing and on CNN it will sound like a bad thing and vice versa. My experiences with Primerica have been positive so far so I spin it positively while others have apparently had bad experiences and spin it negatively.

[ItooHaveAlltheAnswers]

Whoops, sorry about the formatting!

[Cornelius]

Primerica is not the only company that will offer a free Financial Needs Analysis. All carriers have limitations as to how much risk they will cover. It wasn't about them being concerned about you paying for too much coverage. Why didn't you ask the agent who sold you the policy why they suggested 250K when they should have known the PFS wouldn't issue 250K. From what I remember the limits were in the rate books.

As for the high amount of coverage for the child, it's simple to say 800K is too much and it may have been the case, but you did state that there was a huge trust fund involved. There may have been tax issues that were a consideration. I sure hope there's documentation on that case because if anything does happen, God forbid, or the child becomes uninsurable the writing agent better have E/O coverage.

Here's something to consider.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSJoFaIy27c

As you can see from the video above in all cases it's not just about income replacement all the time.

[susand]

I just want to comment to anyone who ends up reading this that I originally purchased an A.L. Williams life insurance policy 18 years ago and still have it. I was married to my first husband at that time and pregnant with our son. We both went on the policy and then after the divorce, he continue to stay on the policy until he split off and bought his own. I stayed with the policy and then A.L. Williams was bought or merged (don't know really and don't care) with Primerica. I NEVER in 18 years have had a price increase, a problem with changing anything in the policy - from removing my ex-husband, to name changes when I remarried, to address changes - nothing! I have NEVER had a rep try to "sell" me more goods or additional goods I didn't request information on. I have had nothing but outstanding customer service from Primerica and I have understood that they are ranked quite high in the world for their financial and insurance services. I am not now, nor have I ever been a rep for them or interested in that, but I wanted to add my two cents that shows how "Itoohavealltheanswers" and "yourunclebob" can be so opposed in their perspectives - for that's all it is: perspective vs. experience. My experience has been phenomenal and I have never, ever thought of switching my life insurance to anyone else. Hope that helps claify that sometimes when we simply base our decisions off of perspective, these boards, or others' opinions, without the benefit of the experience, we end up truly hurting ourselves in the long run!
Susan

[susand]

Sorry for the formatting also - :)

[Cornelius]

Something to think about for Susan. There's a good chance you have been paying unisex rates for the past 18 years. What that means is men and women are basically rated in the same class. At many companies women have more favorable rates. So with PFS or any other company if a person has $100,000 of coverage the same $100,000 of coverage would have been payed out if there was a claim. Something else to consider is rates have come down industrywide within the past years. If your still in good health you may be able to cut your cost for the same or clost to the same amount of coverage. As always we must consider we are talking about a diffeenrce of 18 years.

If you do decide to get another policy it may be a good idea to shop the market. If you haven't considered it, don't forget to update all your beneficiary desiginations. Well that's just my 2 cents.

[Bruceinvt]

Why anyone would put any of their finances with PrimAmerica is beyond me. Some people really must enjoy paying more for less.