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  #271  
Old 03-12-2013, 12:05 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
Given your past history of making up comments, such a claim doesn't have a lot of credibility.
Given your constant lying and dishonesty, you have zero credibility, save for your kool aid drinking droogies.
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  #272  
Old 03-12-2013, 12:57 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Given your constant lying and dishonesty, you have zero credibility, save for your kool aid drinking droogies.
Yeah, still waiting for all evidence of my constant lying and dishonesty.

So far your "evidence" consists of claiming a post by someone else, nearly a decade ago, is me when it's not, claiming I visited your website with an anonymizer, again apparently years ago, and pointing out I mentioned, again, years ago, that some of your fellow critics mentioned I know Amway like the back of my hand!

Oh yeah, constant lying and dishonesty there!
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  #273  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:03 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
Yeah, still waiting for all evidence of my constant lying and dishonesty.

So far your "evidence" consists of claiming a post by someone else, nearly a decade ago, is me when it's not, claiming I visited your website with an anonymizer, again apparently years ago, and pointing out I mentioned, again, years ago, that some of your fellow critics mentioned I know Amway like the back of my hand!

Oh yeah, constant lying and dishonesty there!
The more you post, the more dishonest you look. You should try for the lying championship. You'd be a favorite to win.
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  #274  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:21 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
The more you post, the more dishonest you look. You should try for the lying championship. You'd be a favorite to win.
See, there you go, I didn't even know there was a "lying championship". Apparently you're far more familiar with it than I ....
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  #275  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:32 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
See, there you go, I didn't even know there was a "lying championship". Apparently you're far more familiar with it than I ....
That's because you're lying about not knowing there was a lying championship.
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  #276  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:52 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
Several times on this forum (and elsewhere), critics of MLM have made claims that mean there must be literally tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions (one critic even said billions) of "victims" of MLM companies.

Of course, their thesis doesn't stand up to much focus. Where are all these victims? They don't complain to the FTC. They don't complain to the BBB. Independent surveys have shown that former distributors have a positive view of the products and industry, and would recommend the products and opportunity to others.

Yes, they're are some complaints, legitimate and otherwise, but nothing like the numbers you'd expect if the industry operated the way critics claim.

So they come up with ridiculous explanations for the lack of complaints .... they're "too ashamed" blah blah blah.

Well, now they have more data to try and explain away. A few years back a couple of disgruntled Quixtar IBOs launched a class action in California against Quixtar and Britt Worldwide (a support company). As far as I was concerned the case was bogus, but nevertheless Quixtar (now Amway) decided to settle the case. An analysis of the settlement and where the money is going shows that doing so likely saved them a lot of legal fees. It's also allowed a "fresh start", as Amway requested all the various "business support" companies also be a part of the case.

So the class administrators spent many months contacting every IBO for the past decade with Amway/Quixtar in North America. They offered them cash refunds on their registration fees, free product packs, and refunds on money spent on Business Support Materials.

Well, 5 months later they've sent out a new letter. They've still got all this cash! They've doubled the value of the product packs, they've made it easier to get refunds on expenses.

Where are all the Amway victims?

I suppose they're all still too ashamed .....
Here's the REAL REASON Amway settled the claim instead of going to court:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/42361768/

Quote:
The plaintiffs in the lawsuit presented evidence that said Amway failed to meet any of these tests. (For instance, the plaintiffs had an expert witness alleging that more than 99 percent of Amway I.B.O.s failed to turn a profit.) The lavish settlement prevented any of it from being presented at trial, with a judgment in a civil case like that often a precursor to an FTC investigation.
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  #277  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:57 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Here's the REAL REASON Amway settled the claim instead of going to court:
Oh, so now your presenting quotes from an article by a self-described fiction writer who deleted comments from his article that pointed out his errors.

You know where he got that information from?

Robert FitzPatrick.

You know who the supposed "expert" was?

Robert FitzPatrick

You know whose affidavit wasn't accepted by the court because he wasn't an actual expert?

Robert FitzPatrick

Good one Jokey!
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  #278  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:59 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
Oh, so now your presenting quotes from an article by a self-described fiction writer who deleted comments from his article that pointed out his errors.

You know where he got that information from?
Nice diversion. Why didn't Amway say "bring it on" and go to court?

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  #279  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:05 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Nice diversion. Why didn't Amway say "bring it on" and go to court?
because it was a lot cheaper to settle and it also allowed them to clear the decks to stop future frivolous lawsuits.

It's really not difficult to understand.

"Nice diversion"? Pointing out the "expert" you are quoting from a court case was rejected by the court as an expert? That's a diversion?
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  #280  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:07 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
because it was a lot cheaper to settle and it also allowed them to clear the decks to stop future frivolous lawsuits.
Well, that's the BS they (and you) want people to believe.
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  #281  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:10 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Well, that's the BS they (and you) want people to believe.
Ok, it's not hard for people with more than half a synapse to understand. You however may need help.

Is the cash settlement cheaper than the cost of going to court, yes or no?

Was the case dismissed with prejudice, so no current or former IBO (from the past decade) can bring a new case against Amway for the same claims, yes or no?

Did Amway bring in all the accredited tool systems so that no current or former IBO (from the past decade) can bring such a case against them either, yes or no?
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  #282  
Old 03-18-2013, 05:13 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
Is the cash settlement cheaper than the cost of going to court, yes or no?
Only Amway knows and they aren't going to tell anyone.
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  #283  
Old 03-18-2013, 05:40 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Only Amway knows and they aren't going to tell anyone.
They don't need to tell. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence (yes, I realise this excludes you) can see that it would.

I'll help you out.

Does a full jury court trial cost more to litigate than pre-trial arguments? Yes or No?

Did almost half of the cash settlement go towards paying just the plaintiffs lawyers? Yes or No?
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  #284  
Old 03-18-2013, 06:05 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
They don't need to tell. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence (yes, I realise this excludes you) can see that it would.

I'll help you out.

Does a full jury court trial cost more to litigate than pre-trial arguments? Yes or No?

Did almost half of the cash settlement go towards paying just the plaintiffs lawyers? Yes or No?
Amway has deep pockets. If they wanted to clear their names they could have gone to trial even if it may have costed more, although that is not a certainty.
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  #285  
Old 03-18-2013, 06:56 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Amway has deep pockets. If they wanted to clear their names they could have gone to trial even if it may have costed more, although that is not a certainty.
They did that 35 years ago. Hasn't stopped people like you spreading BS.

Look at what has happened to date with cases -

BERR case. Scheibeler claims Justice Norris found 99.7% lose money. Justice Norris found no such thing, the media uncritically prints this falsehood. People like you spread it.

TEAM vs Quixtar case. You and others take confidential data from the case and falsely the claim that it revealed only 4% of sales is to customers. It's not true, Amway comes out in the media immediately to say it's not true. You promote the falsehood repeatedly anyway.

Pokorny Settlement. FitzPatrick claims an "expert" revealed 99% lose money. He fails to note he was the so-called expert and that his affidavit was rejected by the court. People like you and Meagdal promote it anyway, and fail to report actual facts like how few people purchase BSM and how few people have asked for restitution.

It's clear that given dishonest people like you, Scheibeler, FitzPatrick et.al. aided by bloggers and journalists more interested in controversy than truth, that it's better to have a shorter case than a longer one.

Heck. Almost the exact same lawsuit was brought in Canada. They elected to fight it there. They won.

You and your partners in crime don't bother reporting that, do you? Or how about the fact Amway were awarded costs and haven't pursued the plaintiff for it? Funny how your mate Cheryl hasn't mentioned that. She'd have nowhere to live if they did.
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  #286  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:19 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
They did that 35 years ago. Hasn't stopped people like you spreading BS.

Look at what has happened to date with cases -

BERR case. Scheibeler claims Justice Norris found 99.7% lose money. Justice Norris found no such thing, the media uncritically prints this falsehood. People like you spread it.

TEAM vs Quixtar case. You and others take confidential data from the case and falsely the claim that it revealed only 4% of sales is to customers. It's not true, Amway comes out in the media immediately to say it's not true. You promote the falsehood repeatedly anyway.

Pokorny Settlement. FitzPatrick claims an "expert" revealed 99% lose money. He fails to note he was the so-called expert and that his affidavit was rejected by the court. People like you and Meagdal promote it anyway, and fail to report actual facts like how few people purchase BSM and how few people have asked for restitution.

It's clear that given dishonest people like you, Scheibeler, FitzPatrick et.al. aided by bloggers and journalists more interested in controversy than truth, that it's better to have a shorter case than a longer one.

Heck. Almost the exact same lawsuit was brought in Canada. They elected to fight it there. They won.

You and your partners in crime don't bother reporting that, do you? Or how about the fact Amway were awarded costs and haven't pursued the plaintiff for it? Funny how your mate Cheryl hasn't mentioned that. She'd have nowhere to live if they did.
When I was an IBO, I attended a function where there were more than 10,000 in attendance. There were maybe 5-6 diamonds in attendance. No emeralds at the time.

We know that "system" platinums may very well lose money after expenses,

5-6 out of more than 10,000 is what percentage of "success"?

If I'm an IBO and I buy a bottle of soap and say I sold it to someone, even if I didn't. How does Amway know this? How did they arrive at their conclusion of outside sales?
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  #287  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:28 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

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Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
When I was an IBO, I attended a function where there were more than 10,000 in attendance. There were maybe 5-6 diamonds in attendance. No emeralds at the time.
So?

Quote:
We know that "system" platinums may very well lose money after expenses
"may", but unlikely. So?

Tell me this, Jokey. I supplied you with a whole bunch of testimonies from Achieve Magazine on this forum a while back. Most of them were mere Platinums. Many said that they'd been able to quit a job or cut back on hours because of the income.

Yet your claiming they were losing money.

How do you work that out?

Quote:
5-6 out of more than 10,000 is what percentage of "success"?
What? You're no defining "success" as being a Diamond? And, it appears, being dishonest even doing that twist of dishonest, counting a Diamond couple as one, but a couple attending as two. Not to mention including prospects who aren't even IBOs etc etc etc.

Quote:
If I'm an IBO and I buy a bottle of soap and say I sold it to someone, even if I didn't. How does Amway know this? How did they arrive at their conclusion of outside sales?
They didn't. It was people like you who "arrived at a conclusion".

Says a lot about you of course - that your default position is to assume people lie. Projection, anyone?
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  #288  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:31 PM
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Re: Missing: Amway victims

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
Tell me this, Jokey. I supplied you with a whole bunch of testimonies from Achieve Magazine on this forum a while back. Most of them were mere Platinums. Many said that they'd been able to quit a job or cut back on hours because of the income.

Yet your claiming they were losing money.

How do you work that out?
Wisconsin's AG study showing the top 1% of IBO's averaged a net loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
What? You're no defining "success" as being a Diamond? And, it appears, being dishonest even doing that twist of dishonest, counting a Diamond couple as one, but a couple attending as two. Not to mention including prospects who aren't even IBOs etc etc etc.
The function I attended only had 5-6 diamonds. Fine, count them as 10-12 people. What's that success percentage ot of more than 10,000?
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