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  #37  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:47 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
Sub's shaddow? :D Thanks for the complement but as much as I wish I had his intelligence, alas, I go my own way. :cool:
Sorry, I am new here, I do not even know what SJ does for a living, or if he is part of the legal system.


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  #38  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:54 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Why do you assume this, you are meant to be a mod, yet are not, it seems, from the US.
I assume it because the vast majority of people on this forum are from America.
What does my being a mod have to do with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Besides which, it is irrelevant, because to form a view on someone as they have a 'guilty face' is highly subjective, and likely to be wrong.
I agree, and I already said it's not a judgement I would personally let affect my decision if I were in a jury. However, if a member of a jury feels it is a valid judgement to make that is their decision.
Juries are supposed to be a random selection of peers. If the majority feel a judgement based on "guilty face" is valid, you would be in the minority, and in a society where the majority rules (which I believe is the fairest system possible) your judgement that it is not valid is wrong.

You may be the only juror who is a qualified, rational person. You may have a million degrees. You may be anyone in the entire world, but you are still one person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Do you think that you could spot a paedophile?
That would depend on which type of paedophile that person was. If he or she was the typical type of paedophile (low IQ, poor social abilities, quick mood changes, etc) then yes. There are of course other much less common kinds of paedophiles who are harder to spot without talking to them personally.

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  #39  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:05 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Sorry, I am new here, I do not even know what SJ does for a living, or if he is part of the legal system.

I suspect he's part of the legal systems biggest problem :D I'm kidding of course. Gotta be careful with humor here. I don't know what sub does for a living but in defense of he and the other moderators here, they've done a heck of a job from what I've seen keeping this a decent place to chat. Some real rascals are gone, at least for a while, although there are a few that I think have stretched lenience.




Last edited by bogie : 12-23-2006 at 03:08 AM.
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  #40  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:06 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
I assume it because the vast majority of people on this forum are from America.
What does my being a mod have to do with this?

Well, as a mod, I would just have thought that it would be better not to leap to assumptions, as they tend to make an ASS out of U and ME. ;)

I agree, and I already said it's not a judgement I would personally let affect my decision if I were in a jury. However, if a member of a jury feels it is a valid judgement to make that is their decision.
Juries are supposed to be a random selection of peers. If the majority feel a judgement based on "guilty face" is valid, you would be in the minority, and in a society where the majority rules (which I believe is the fairest system possible) your judgement that it is not valid is wrong.

So, by that rationale then, if an all white jury convicted a black man to die, based on his 'look', that would be accpetable, and 'fair'. WTF? It is clear that you are not legally qualified, else you would know that you CANNOT base a judgement on the way someone looks or dresses, etc.

You may be the only juror who is a qualified, rational person. You may have a million degrees. You may be anyone in the entire world, but you are still one person.

Yes, but if one person knows that the earth is round, and the others think it is flat, does that mean that the one person is wrong? No, didn't think so, let's move on...


That would depend on which type of paedophile that person was. If he or she was the typical type of paedophile (low IQ, poor social abilities, quick mood changes, etc) then yes. There are of course other much less common kinds of paedophiles who are harder to spot without talking to them personally.
There is no such thing as a 'typical' paedophile, case closed!

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  #41  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:06 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
BTW sub. You're a reasonoble chap. What bone is it that you have to pick with our constitution. I'd like a shot at defending it without someone calling me a bunch of names.
Oh sorry, I realise now how it would seem that way. No I think the constitution is good! My comment was meant to express that the processes and ways of doing things that are outlined in the constitution aren't always followed.
I think the constitution is very good :)

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  #42  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:07 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
I suspect he's part of the legal systems biggest problem :D
Well, he does LOOK a bit dodgy, now that you mention it.

Hang him, or the chair?

:)

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  #43  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:22 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Not sure about anyplace but the US, sorry to keep saying that but...., it takes a unanimous vote by a jury of twelve for a verdict of guilty or not guilty. There is no in between although usually the 12 have the option of convicting on a lesser charge. Say man slaughter instead of murder. If even one juror dissagrees with the other 11, a misstrial is declared. The state then has the option of retrying the case or dropping it. If he drops it, he has until the statute of limitations run out to retry.

Notwithstanding some high profile cases, it seems to me the jury system, here anyway, works pretty well. Not perfect, someone will mention OJ here, but not at all broken. There are many aspects in play. Crowded court dockets, overworked judges and prosecutors, overcrowded prisons, a bunch of stuff that muddies the water and makes it tough to find ways to improve. Mess with something to get the criminals convicted faster and they end up letting them out early on the other end to make room. It's not a simple matter than can be fixed by waving a wond at a computer.

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  #44  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:26 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
Oh sorry, I realise now how it would seem that way. No I think the constitution is good! My comment was meant to express that the processes and ways of doing things that are outlined in the constitution aren't always followed.
I think the constitution is very good :)
We could certainly get better at the execution end sometimes, tis true. :)

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  #45  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:30 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Well, as a mod, I would just have thought that it would be better not to leap to assumptions, as they tend to make an ASS out of U and ME.
You have interesting expectations of people, first juries and now mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
you CANNOT base a judgement on the way someone looks or dresses, etc.
Actually people in the legal profession know how important looks are, it's common practice to dress defendants in formal suits, have them get haircuts and have them look as "upstanding" as possible for court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Yes, but if one person knows that the earth is round, and the others think it is flat, does that mean that the one person is wrong? No, didn't think so, let's move on...
It wouldn't make it true, but if the selection is random it would mean the majority of the society thinks it is flat, which is what matters.
It is the majority of people who decide who is elected and by what merits that party is elected. Whether those merits are applicable to a universal "right or wrong" is irrelevant because everyone has their own opinion of what is universally right or wrong, often extremely culturally dependent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
There is no such thing as a 'typical' paedophile, case closed!
The Burgess, Groth, and Holmstrom model, a common model used to identify paedophiles, defines 2 types of paedophiles.
Trends are observed in criminal psychology, such as that in-cestual pedophiles usually have low IQs, from lower class homes, are introverted and have low self-esteem, have a history of alcoholism, etc.
Paedophiles who offend outside familial bounds (less common) are often extroverted and learned, have experimented with homosexuality, middle class and has a relatively large collection of pornography (not necessarily child pornography).
There are many trends in paedophiles, those are just some.


Last edited by SubJunk : 12-23-2006 at 03:38 AM. Reason: A few little things
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  #46  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:41 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
Not sure about anyplace but the US, sorry to keep saying that but...., it takes a unanimous vote by a jury of twelve for a verdict of guilty or not guilty. There is no in between although usually the 12 have the option of convicting on a lesser charge. Say man slaughter instead of murder. If even one juror dissagrees with the other 11, a misstrial is declared. The state then has the option of retrying the case or dropping it. If he drops it, he has until the statute of limitations run out to retry.

Notwithstanding some high profile cases, it seems to me the jury system, here anyway, works pretty well. Not perfect, someone will mention OJ here, but not at all broken. There are many aspects in play. Crowded court dockets, overworked judges and prosecutors, overcrowded prisons, a bunch of stuff that muddies the water and makes it tough to find ways to improve. Mess with something to get the criminals convicted faster and they end up letting them out early on the other end to make room. It's not a simple matter than can be fixed by waving a wand at a computer.
I agree completely

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  #47  
Old 12-23-2006, 03:42 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

I visualize a defendent sitting with his lawyer who has a laptop on the table. Aross the isle is the procecuter with another laptop, a third laptop sits in front of the judge and all three are connected to a main fraim where the jury used to sit. Prior to allowing opening arguments, the judge goes to pound his gavel and bring the court to order but he misses and gavels his laptop hard. "OOPs" he says and then starts reading from the screen and it goes something like this,

"Here ye, here ye this court shall come to order. All testimony and evidence shall be entered into these computers which are networked together with the mainframe jury. The cyberjury's decision shall be final. There will be no appeal since nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong........."



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  #48  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:04 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
I suspect he's part of the legal systems biggest problem :D I'm kidding of course. Gotta be careful with humor here. I don't know what sub does for a living but in defense of he and the other moderators here, they've done a heck of a job from what I've seen keeping this a decent place to chat. Some real rascals are gone, at least for a while, although there are a few that I think have stretched lenience.
I run Red Skies Design, www.redskiesdesign.com, and study lots :)

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  #49  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:07 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
I visualize a defendent sitting with his lawyer who has a laptop on the table. Aross the isle is the procecuter with another laptop, a third laptop sits in front of the judge and all three are connected to a main fraim where the jury used to sit. Prior to allowing opening arguments, the judge goes to pound his gavel and bring the court to order but he misses and gavels his laptop hard. "OOPs" he says and then starts reading from the screen and it goes something like this,

"Here ye, here ye this court shall come to order. All testimony and evidence shall be entered into these computers which are networked together with the mainframe jury. The cyberjury's decision shall be final. There will be no appeal since nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong........."
Hahaha awesome! Do I hear some new member saying "well judges should have to pass coordination tests anyway"?

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  #50  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:09 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
I run Red Skies Design, www.redskiesdesign.com, and study lots :)

I know you study alot. Checked out your link, impressive.

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  #51  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:10 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
Hahaha awesome! Do I hear some new member saying "well judges should have to pass coordination tests anyway"?
Damn. Now I still won't be qualified to sit on the bench. :mad:

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  #52  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:23 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
I know you study alot. Checked out your link, impressive.
Thanks, that site is my baby :) I made and maintain it personally

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  #53  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:24 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Always easy to laugh or mock new ideas, isn't it?

I wonder what reception I would have got had I suggested, just a few short decades ago, that it would be possible for me to swap instant messages, electronically, with a chap in NZ?

Or, if I had once suggested that the horse and cart would be replaced by the the motor car.

Just open yer minds a little bit guys, that is ALL that I ask, and I do not think it is too much, is it...?

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  #54  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:24 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
Damn. Now I still won't be qualified to sit on the bench. :mad:
Only professional athletes allowed. And mandatory game of catch before every gavel bang


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